Night Vision Night Ops

[Glassaholic]

Austtalia removing hik cameras.

Australia to remove Chinese surveillance cameras amid security fears

It follows moves by the UK and US last year citing concerns that China could access the devices.

www.google.com

Does that mean they can also see through our thermals when in use (the thermals with Chinese cores). Alexa listens and China watches, that's just great

But seriously, do we really think that the biggest Communist superpower on earth wouldn't try all kinds of ways to spy on every other nation, and when they are the largest exporter of electronic equipment do we really think they can't find a way to get a backdoor into all these "connected" devices. Too many folks in our government without any critical thinking skills!

 

[MarinePMI]

Austtalia removing hik cameras.

Australia to remove Chinese surveillance cameras amid security fears

It follows moves by the UK and US last year citing concerns that China could access the devices.

www.google.com

All while they move to ban "long range, high caliber" rifles. Smdh...they may need those rifles in the near future I think....

 

[Boon20]

All while they move to ban "long range, high caliber" rifles. Smdh...they may need those rifles in the near future I think....

I hate to see it but it might just take an invation to get some countries to change their laws

 

[wigwamitus]

Been a mostly mild and busy winter, so I haven't been posting as much. In our new digs in the Ozarks, we've been preparing planters for vegetables and fertilizing the fruit trees (45 planted by previous owner, 9 died before we took over, I kept the 36 alive last year, but this year we want to see how much fruit we can get !

We put up 460 ft of 7 foot tall deer fence around the fruit trees. I see up to 22 deer around the house at night (within 200yds of the house) though usually in the range of from 8 to 14. Last year they continuously worked on the fruit trees, this year we will try to keep them off.

==
And we are rebuilding some planters the previous owner had setup and will try to get some tomatoes, peppers and garlic this year.

Our compost setup to the left, South pasture to the South.

==

We setup our seedling farm in the water shed, which has no power outlets, so we have been powering for 3 weeks now today with Solar primarily, but with a small gas generator for back up. We're still having overnight temps in the teens here and have to keep the seedling area > 50F.

==

As to chicken coop defense, we got 9 new Buff Orphington's in Oct (late season !) and managed to get them up to the laying stage by end of Feb. That gives us 5+7 layers and 2 roosters (we keep separate until we decide to mate them).

The day they arrived:

==

Haven't seen as many critters around the coop this winter as I saw back in KS. So far in March 3 coons and 2 skunks and a bunch of mice have fallen. I mostly use the 22LR with VO 1-6x and Apollo42 640 and eley hp 40gr. But here it is pictured with a Theon LR.

Just last week, I started using the mk18-ish with nx8 1-8x and ELR for critter control around the coop at longer distances, in the foreground.

First kill at 153yds with that setup.

==
So the move from KS is complete ... 26 round trips for me taking all the crap we didn't sell down to MO. We went from 250 acres to 80 acres. Sold 43 head of cattle. Brought our chickens and their coop. Once I can repair more fence, will get a few cattle for our limited pasture space here. Downsizing !!

 

[WhereNow&How]

The Ponderosa is looking good.

Now to find a couple 20 something year old volunteer Hoss's that like to do chores so you have more shootin time.

 

[Glassaholic]

Been a mostly mild and busy winter, so I haven't been posting as much. In our new digs in the Ozarks, we've been preparing planters for vegetables and fertilizing the fruit trees (45 planted by previous owner, 9 died before we took over, I kept the 36 alive last year, but this year we want to see how much fruit we can get !

We put up 460 ft of 7 foot tall deer fence around the fruit trees. I see up to 22 deer around the house at night (within 200yds of the house) though usually in the range of from 8 to 14. Last year they continuously worked on the fruit trees, this year we will try to keep them off.

==
And we are rebuilding some planters the previous owner had setup and will try to get some tomatoes, peppers and garlic this year.

Our compost setup to the left, South pasture to the South.

==

We setup our seedling farm in the water shed, which has no power outlets, so we have been powering for 3 weeks now today with Solar primarily, but with a small gas generator for back up. We're still having overnight temps in the teens here and have to keep the seedling area > 50F.

==

As to chicken coop defense, we got 9 new Buff Orphington's in Oct (late season !) and managed to get them up to the laying stage by end of Feb. That gives us 5+7 layers and 2 roosters (we keep separate until we decide to mate them).

The day they arrived:

==

Haven't seen as many critters around the coop this winter as I saw back in KS. So far in March 3 coons and 2 skunks and a bunch of mice have fallen. I mostly use the 22LR with VO 1-6x and Apollo42 640 and eley hp 40gr. But here it is pictured with a Theon LR.

Just last week, I started using the mk18-ish with nx8 1-8x and ELR for critter control around the coop at longer distances, in the foreground.

First kill at 153yds with that setup.

==
So the move from KS is complete ... 26 round trips for me taking all the crap we didn't sell down to MO. We went from 250 acres to 80 acres. Sold 43 head of cattle. Brought our chickens and their coop. Once I can repair more fence, will get a few cattle for our limited pasture space here. Downsizing !!

Love the update and sounds like MO will serve you well.

 

[TheHorta]

Livin’ the dream, Wig!

 

[WhereNow&How]

Livin’ the dream, Wig!

Yep he is. When I grow up, I wanna be just like Wig.

 

[wigwamitus]

We get a lot of calls regarding head NODs. Basically this includes NV and/or thermal monoculars as well as dual tube setups and also COTI type units. And the invariably brings in discussion of the helmets (or night cap like head covers), shrouds, mounts, bridge, interfaces, counterweights and then lasers, illuminators - i.e. "full setup".

So here goes some experiential thoughts from this corner.

I actually started in the NV/thermal world in early 2013. My first head NOD was a yukon gen1 critter and it was really terrible I wore it outside 3 times I think. The first time I literally ran in to a tree. I removed it and quickly realized I could see better with my mark I eye balls. The other 2 times I was experimenting with it to see how well it could see things like IR tape and vis light and IR light in moonlight and not in moon light. It was borderline useful for those purposes, but I certainly don't recommend !!!
For head use, I hardily recommend gen3, well these days, the only cases where gen2 makes sense to me is in ganglands with restrictions. With gen2 you are gonna have to run an illuminator unless you've got a decent moon. And that's the same with all the digital stuff I've tried. The bushy equinox stuff (I have 2) is pretty dang good for what it is - in day mode - I can literally read a book from across the room and at night at 600yds on like 11x digital with a good moon over head I can see really well. But note those caveats !
So the digital stuff is not useless - but in my book - its not something I would use for "serious" activities. The equinox are heavy and REQUIRE copious illum or big moon to see very far.
I've been able to barely get the equinox working as a clip behind ...

though beyond 100yds the alignment between the opics and the illum was insufficient with that setup (which I called "Frankenghun") and so couldn't see anything. It could be improved but not a priority - again - not for "serious" activities.

So, bottomline, the non-gen3 or above (if any such exists) are non-serious and should be avoided except for playing around in the backyard sort of thing.

My second NV device was an ATN PS-22. I think I was so dumb then, that I got the PS-22 mixed up with the PVS-22 ... the PS-22 was definitely another disappointment. The collimation sucqued. I still remember the offset I had to dial, 4 clicks left and 7 clicks up (1/2 MOA clicks on L&S mk4 3.5-10x tmr). I sent it in to ATN and paid $150 for recollimation, got it back and exact same offsets still applied.
Later Aaron Fouraker (my first NV/thermal coach) also recollimated it and again - same offsets applied. Maybe the housing was "bent"

So, I had learned my first key lesson - if you actually want sh^t to work, skip past the crappy stuff, get real sh^t. It still might not work, but at least your odds are better !!

==

After that, I got a once in a life time (small) chunk of money and was able to take some of that and get some "real" stuff (or at least "real" to me at the time.
2 x PVS-14s
1 x COLR
1 x Apollo42 (336)
At the time, I thought these items would be all I'd ever need - well I've totally destroyed that theory !!

Early days head NOD setup.

Dual 14s on IC bridge on TATM mount on Tm Hillary bump. LED ir illum on one side, RGBW vis light on other side. I ran this sort of setup from about 2014 thru about 2018. It was pretty good and I wouldn't decry using it today, though in recent years I've stripped off the side lights, reduces weight and profile.


As I started to move around at night with nv and thermal I began to realize the power of thermal. I could be looking at an empty pasture on my land in KS with a 14 and hold up the apollo ( i used it a lot as a handheld monocular) and see a field of 3 deer. Carrying the apollo in my hand (or even with a lanyard - around my neck) still required a hand to use it and required me to stop moving and hold it up. I dreamed of a head mounted thermal I could scan with - with no hands - and while moving.

Pics of the apollo with lanyard and mounted on 22LR for barnyard defense. About 1/2 the critters I've killed in past 8 years have been with the 22LR within 150yds of the coop.

I practiced the sh^t out of mounting the apollo on the rifle and could do with 1 hand quickly. I still use larue rail clips to index a spot to feel for on the rail to mount any / all clipons.

So late 2015 I got a q-14 (both the patrol and q-14 came out at the same time. Aaron advised patrol, but I stuck with Armasight. The q-14 was disappointing in some ways but useful in at least one ! The "dream" had been to run on head as hand-free spotter while moving. That dream was never completely realized. The q-14 was mum-14 form factor and I wanted to be standardized on pvs-14 form factor - and running those side by side - was - for me - in those days - beyond my ability. I've since learned how to do it.

Note the significant fore and aft offset of the q-14 on pvs-14 in this mounting attempt.

But the q-14 was fantastic as a ratter on the 22lr is was the most accurate thermal monocular designed device, for shooting I've had, due to its tiny click value primarily.

I killed around 180 rats/mice in this period (2014-2016) and 90% of those were with the q-14 on the 22lr.
1 mad minute around the greenhouse one night.

BTW, the other 10% were gotten with laser max ir-laser ( a tiny, cheap, plastic, pistol sized critter ) and 14 on head with LED ir-illum on head. I would "broadcast" with the LED illum, spot their eyes, even down in a wood pile - and aim and shoot with the laser. Got a lot of head shots in those days, cause I was aiming at their eyes. But the q-14 was much more efficient. I could scan and shoot with the q-14 on the 22.

But in about six months, I got an ATN ODIN 320 1x. This unit finally enabled me to realize the "dream" of head mounted, hands free spotting while moving. It was a pvs-14 form factor and so even I - even in those days - could mount side by side with 14.

This ODIN was a "Gen1" ATN thermal (it was OLDE when I got it) and AFAIK these were NOT chinese, whereas all the subsquent gens gen2 thru present of ATN thermals are chinese. The ATN gen1s had FLIR cores.
Even though the ODIN was a 320 and fixed focus it was still very useful on head. One night I was even able to PID a yote at ~500yds while rolling my the 4-wheeler. The yote was heading up a hill in open terrain and PID was by movement. I wouldn't count on being able to repeat that - but it did happen and I'll never forget it
But I spotted and PID'd many a critter while rolling on the 4 wheeler - the dream had come true and was capable of even more than I expected. It was quite "liberating".

I'm going to pause the story here - but I'll be back ! We're roughly at Feb '16 now by chronology. The hide is over on Scout, during this period.

 

[Conqueror]

Great post but waiting for the “bigger and better” gear sequel lol

 

[wigwamitus]

Ok, resuming ...


So, on the head mounted NOD front, as of Fen '16 I had just gotten the ATN Gen01 ODIN 320 1x and it was finally able to get me where I wanted to be with 14 and thermal side by side on head - and with hands free (thermal) spotting while moving - either on foot - or on 4-wheeler.

Also in this period, I got 4 pulsars and 3 zeuses ... the pulsars were

xd38a
xd50a
xd50
xd75

The 38a and 50a were great and had a lot of "shock and awe" over the tau-2 cores in the Armasights. Before the 75mm and 100mm Zeuses, the Armasights were pretty much a "2D" image, with no real detail shading on the critters. Just like black and white cartoon critters moving around. The terrain with the pulsars was a lot smoother and more realistic looking. But for the rest of that year, for TWS, I was running both pulsars and Armasights side by side.

Pair of 100mm Zeuses

While the terrain looked a lot better with the pulsars, the Armasights would "pop" the critters more. I was told that these differences were "on purpose". Over time, I learned to tweak the Armasight image (and nuc a lot more) to make the Armsights get pretty close to the pulsars. But the pulsars remained awesome out of the box.
Interestingly the higher end units, the 50 and 75 had fuzzier displays than the 50a and 38a - and that was strange, because the "not a" units were supposed to have upgraded displays. I said it looked like "someone had thrown a pail of soapy water over the not a displays" ...
The 38a still soldiers on over at my neighbors house. He still uses it for rats, mice and yotes around his place. All the others got sold off.

xd75 on an early mk12-ish, Mar '16.

xd38 on m4-ish circa early '16

In Feb 16 I also got my first BAE core units the IRD Mk2 35mm. It was "unbelievable". Taking the pulsar like image to the next level !!!

And I got my first COTI ( a 320 TACMS) unit.

Also, by the summer of 2016 I had Form 1'd 3 lowers (as SBRs) and Form 4'd 7 suppressors, so I was in the SBR and suppressor user business.


Winter 2015-2016 was the beginning of nightly outtings to defend the coop, calving cows and calves from critters that would attack them. From that point I maintained an avg of ~80 critters per year around the coop and cattle, total 421 critters in KS by the time I left in summer 2022.

Yotes, coons and opossum, the primary 3 chicken predators in KS, the yotes were also harrassers of cattle and attackers of young calves.

Towards the end of 2016, both Armasight and IRD were acquired. Armasight by FLIR (who seemed to have the "kill it off" strategy in mind. IRD by IRD who seemed to have the "leave it alone and let it thrive" strategy. Though over time, we have not seen much innovation from Trijicon Electro Optics - as the new business unit is called.

By the end of 2016, I had sold off all 5 of the Armasight thermals I'd had ( I had ill foreboding of results of the FLIR take over ). I did get an TEO IR-Patrol and a Skeet 320 (L = Legacy). Both of those were GREAT ...

Skeet 320, 14 and coti on Team Hilliary.

Patrol with 3x

This particular 3x was special because it had been modified with 2 locking screws. One locked the collar onto the patrol focus ring to keep it from falling off, the other locked the 3x into the collar to prevent it from turning. These two mods enabled this particular 3x to be shootable.

I've since sold both of these (last year) but for many years they were my oasys (bae) cored head mounted thermals and spent 97% of there time on my head. I shot both of them a little for testing (the patrol was an older one with clipon mode) but, never shot them in the field. They were too valuable on head as spotters.

, So we'll pause again at the end of '16, after selling all the Armasights and I think all the pulsars except the xd38, which remains on "loan" to my neighbor in KS. My head mounted thermals are the skeet-L and patrol and I still have the 2 armasight pvs-14s.

I do still have the ODIN, kept it for several more years.

 

[wigwamitus]

2023-05-20
1900-2300
70F-50F
MPH ??

Goal: Test collimation of Voodoo-S out to 400yds.

Environment: It started out at 72F, but cooled off fast, and by the time we finished getting all the gear back where it belonged it was 55F-ish ... There was no moon, so it was dark.
We were in the woods on the East side of our property in the Ozarks, so very hilly, with some steepish hills and thickish woods to navaigate through. We went back and forth 3 times to the target area and another 3 times to the firing point all involved some up and down through woods and gullies and such. Not a golf course here !!

Gear: This is evo9 and me doing the test with his newly acquired voodoo-s and 556(11.5) stoner with atacr 1-8x dmr. I supplied head gear, so he could mount the "S" when we were moving. I had a 14(+coti) and nox18 on my head and I carried a 556(10.3).

Activities: It was still light when we started at 1900.
We first measured his MV with the MSv3. He was shooting factory BH 77 TMK. We got 2465, 2465, 2462 with 3 rds (SD 1.7) and called it good at 2465. He was using strelok pro and had 1.5355 dialed in as his center.

We loaded the targets on the 4-wheeler. EVO9 could also ride on back of 4-wheeler except when we were going up the steepest parts (to much rear end loading could cause a back flip). So we proceeded 1/2 mile up a big hill to the target area and setup 2 targets, one wood backboard target painted white with a blue cross and a grey painted 12" still target. I rolled on the 3 wheeler up to 4 different spots until we could find one that was 400yds away, which we did. So we had setup the targets and found an FP 400yds away.
Next Evo shot several rds in the day without the "S" they all hit the white board, but were about 6 inches low, so we dialed up 4 clicks (0.4 mils) assuming his zero wasn't perfect. We actually fired 2 groups in the day and went on foot to and fro the targets in between. A 400yd walk to/fro targets soundds like a lark, but in this case, it was probably closer to 500yds on the ground with all the steep down and up required to navigate thru this area. EVO had to have a little elevation (couldn't see the target from prone) so we had him kneel on ground and lean gun across the 4-wheeler seat wih the 4-wheeler sideway vis-a-vis the target.

I'd shot like that a lot in KS and knew it was a decent position. If you zoom in, you can just make out the white board target to the left of center thru holes in the vegetation.
The variation in the windage dimension for the day shots was tiny, less than 4 inches, so I thought his windage was good. We didn't measure or detect any wind. I think we went back to get some paint, and then returned, used the 4 wheeler for that. On the return the 4-wheeler was over heating (haha) so we left it at the target area and walked out to the firing point.
Then we RTB to get NODs for the night phase.
Again we left the 4 wheeler at the targets and hiked up to the firing point.
SInce we didn't have the 4 wheeler at the FP, I sat on the ground facing the target with my hands on the ground to my 7 and 4 to anchor me. Evo knelt behind and used my right shoulder as the rest. I had my comtact 3s on my helmet so deployed those down since my ears would me near his suppressor.
Since the hikes were enuff to get your heart rate up, evo decided to squeeze my shoulder each time before he fired so I would pause my breathing.
Before firing at night, we had to set the collimation back to the factory marked posn. Unfortunately there is no way to do this by "feel". So I decided I had to use the little illum on the 14 to do it and that worked. We will consider using 2 tiny strips of tape added to the "triangles" on the housing and diopter inorder to give us a passive way to set the collimation by feel.

"S" with diopter set for human viewing.

DIopter set for factory collimation. The black triangle on the diopter is matched to the white triangle on the housing.


Results: The collimation looks very solid, I was impressed. When selecting a clipon, this is my personal #1 most important aspect. Every utc/x/xii I've owned or tested was "dead on" on collimation, so I guess I'm spoiled. This means, I can move the clipon around between any rifles and be dead on with no adjustments needed (or even possible.

Group center was a little low. And there was some horizontal spread, but a little wind had picked up and was blowing East to West thru the 2 gullies between the FP and the targets. So net/net the group size was ~4" or 1xIPHY.

Since back in the day of the ODIN gen 1, IR Patrol or Q-14 we wanted a multi-role thermal that could be a head mounted thermal and a clipon ... and many have tried, but IMHO the "S" is the first one that really solidly gets us there and that's because it really works as a clipon as this testing shows. Cudoes to PoT for finally getting across that line !!!

Picked my first ever "lone star tic" off me ... I didn't think those were supposed to be in MO. But I picked a second LST off later as well. Got both of them off "live". So I knew the mouth had been "removed" from me. Used "drowning in iso" and surgical tweezers with gentle pulling to encourage tics to pull their mouth out. In a word "PATIENCE".

We managed to work in a tiny bit of patrolling training, into the gear testing exercise. And suffered a bit of "disorientation" in the woods even, which is rare for me, but it did happen ! These woods aren't as dense as KS, but the "trails" are far less straight. I enjoyed it !!

 

[WhereNow&How]

Looks like they have a pretty large geographical area. Dense woods and summertime = Ticks.

 

[Evolution 9]

My addition to Wig’s account of the Voodoo-S:

Background: In 2016, after much help and advice from Strictly Offensive Kit (S.O.K.- Wigwamitus and SkyScrapin), I blew my budget and bought a Trijicon Reap-ir.

I’m so grateful they kept me from trying lesser options (for my particular needs). I’ve since dabbled in the slums of non-BAE cored thermals. They have their place, but it’s not beside BAE cores in the big leagues… if that sounds pretentious, just try them yourself side by side.

Since then, I’ve tried almost everything worth trying. Reap-ir, NOX35, NOX18, Super Hogster, Steiner C35, Skeetir-L, LWTS and LWTS-LR, Theon clip ir, clip ir-LR, BAE UTC-X, and a couple less than honorable mentions.

Most of those I’ve owned personally, and the rest I’ve shot with. My use case is primarily coyote removal on ranches, and some Idaho wolf hunts.

After all these devices I’ve been left with two strong convictions:

1: BAE cores are magic… everything else is second fiddle (at least in terms of what’s available to civilians).

2: For animal shooting, dedicated thermal scopes are usually best, but if you fancy your needs as “tactical”, then a clip-on is head and shoulders better in most situations. This is because of the ability to carry one weapon day or night, and the ability to use the day scope reticle with its familiar information. While my use case is primarily coyotes and wolves, those two benefits still apply.

Unfortunately, Clip ons usually add significant weight and bulk where you don’t want it (forward on the gun).

They also tend to be one trick ponies, with scanner duty being just sort of possible (too much demagnification and/or fixed a-focal ocular lens)

Enter the P.O.T. Voodoo-S

Horta has provided more cool guy pics of Voodoo-S than I ever could, and @jwramp has provided better photography than I’ll ever achieve through the Voodoo-S. What I hope to provide is what matters to me: a day/night truck gun for ranch duty evaluation, with “tactical” considerations for good measure.

I agree with Wig that real collimation is the most important criteria for a clip on. I don’t give a hoot about a pretty image if I can’t trust it to make hits. I’ve done 3 other tests so far and collimation has been spot on each time!

Hand held, for scanning, the S is excellent. There is some demagnification so the image doesn’t immediately fill your brain like a Skeetir, but after a couple seconds you forget about that and enjoy the image.

Helmet mounting wasn’t high on my priorities list, but Voodoo-S performed this role well, partly because it’s small and partly because its image is fantastic. The Skeetir-X will be better due to increased field of view without demagnification, but I was able to navigate reasonably well and even sprint on uneven ground with the Voodoo-S on a helmet.

But back to clip on stuff…

I love the size. Concealed carry guys learned long ago that the best handgun is the one you’ll actually carry. A snub nose air weight revolver beats a full size gun if its size and weight allow you to actually keep it with you. The S is so small it can stow in almost any pocket or pouch, so there’s no reason for it not to tag along any time the AR is going somewhere.

It’s light enough that I hardly notice it when mounted, so my support arm doesn’t hate me for loving clip ons.

I really like its ability to flip 90 degrees out of the way. This has “tactical” benefits to those of us with delusions of grandeur. As the situation changes, you can easily go from day scope to thermal and back simply by shoving the S in the direction it needs to go (the latch on the flip mount can be fixed in the unlocked position with the included screw if you don’t want to press it with your thumb each time). Not only can you get it out of the way quickly, but you don’t have to find somewhere to safely stow it. It can just hang out until you are ready to put it somewhere. For a hog or coyote hunter this can be really helpful. Shoot the critter with the thermal, then as you walk up to it, flip the thermal out of the way for access to day scope/white light use in case it’s not as dead as you thought.

Speaking of the flip mount, they sell for $200 lightly used so a couple other guns can be ready for night use (a 22 is sometimes more appropriate for the task).

The size also allows for use of an offset red dot like an RMR with white light if something pops up close and fast. You will see the S in part of your sight’s FOV but it’s still very useable.

Range: P.O.T. Claims this is good for shooting to 600 meters (man size targets). Based on our testing, I think that’s an accurate claim, though we would all prefer a longer distance clip on like a UTC-X if those distances were commonly encountered.

Expectations: There is some magnification/demagnification but not lots. Day scopes fill up at about 1.8x. That means that a 400 yard target will look significantly more crisp and defined through a 2.5x thermal like a Reap or NOX35. At 400 yards the 12” round target was easily defined enough to know I was holding in the middle, but don’t expect a lot of detail.

Possible fix for alignment of the collimation marks in the dark: Two 3D printed rings, each with a step, could be attached. One to the focus ring and one to the housing. Just clamp them on when the collimation is right. The step will allow turning one way (to focus for the eye) but will stop when turned back to the collimation setting.

I do appreciate that the adjustment is pretty stiff. Once set, I’m not concerned that it will easily move.

Price: If you don’t need clip on capability, I’d buy a NOX35 to shoot, a NOX18 or 35 to scan, or 3 used Reap-irs.

All in all, I’m very impressed.

 

[wigwamitus]

Fantastic write-up !!!

 

[WhereNow&How]

This has “tactical” benefits to those of us with delusions of grandeur.

Yeah, people might have to get "tactical" just to go shopping at Walmart.

This woman's video is very intense. Times are relatively good. Imagine if times were hard.

AMAZING

 

[Evolution 9]

Yeah, people might have to get "tactical" just to go shopping at Walmart.

This woman's video is very intense. Times are relatively good. Imagine if times were hard.

AMAZING

I have a background in firearms instruction and LE work so all my gear has a tactical bent and I was including myself in that comment

 

[Evolution 9]

This evening I tested the Voodoo-S a little more. All testing was at 100 yards.

My first shots with the S were good but a little low. I pushed it out of the way and shot with the day scope (1-8 ATACR). My shots were equally low . My 100 yard zero is low, which means my previous 400 yard adjustments were affected (as seen on the target).

I didn’t want to add variables that weren’t related to my testing so I left the zero low.

Next I intentionally set the collimation marks wrong to simulate adjusting fast in an emergency or having the setting changed through rough handling. There’s a narrow range where the image looks focused, so I could only go so far and still see well enough to shoot. This is what I got.

I fired with my head improperly centered behind my scope which should theoretically maximize error (and may affect my ability to shoot well regardless of the thermal). It made a difference, but I’m pleased with how reasonable the “worst case” result was.

Additionally, between each shot this evening, I flipped the S out of the way and then back. That shouldn’t matter but I figured I’d cause as much trouble as reasonably possible.

Keep in mind that these results (and the previous 400 yard results) are from an 11.5” AR, so your results may be slightly better.

Now I’m off to troubleshoot and figure out why my day scope zero was low

 

[WhereNow&How]

Next I intentionally set the collimation marks wrong to simulate adjusting fast in an emergency or having the setting changed through rough handling. There’s a narrow range where the image looks focused, so I could only go so far and still see well enough to shoot. This is what I got.

fired with my head improperly centered behind my scope which should theoretically maximize error (and may affect my ability to shoot well regardless of the thermal). It made a difference, but I’m pleased with how reasonable the “worst case” result was.

Now that is what I call REAL Testing. This tells the true measure of a device.

 

[shoots100]

Great thread.
Get some 10% permethrin at the local supply store and treat your clothes for the ticks.
It's sad that in this day and age of technical wizardry the cheapest reliable clip on is $16,000 dollars.

SJC

 

[RockFarmer]

Looks like they have a pretty large geographical area. Dense woods and summertime = Ticks.

I live in New Hampshire and had a case of Lyme's several years ago. Different tick, different disease, but it affected my quality of life for a couple years and I since have been vocal about my experience to urge others in taking precautions. As a father to outdoors children I am especially intent to protect them from going through what I went through.

I may even make a pdf or a video describing my preventative measures if anyone is interested. But to get out of the way on this thread let me just add another product that is handy not as a replacement for but in conjunction with Permethrin already mentioned:

Repel Ticks with our Pet Safe Tickshield Bug Spray | Cedarcide

Shield your family and pets from menacing ticks with Cedarcide's extra-strength tick repellent, Tickshield. Our bug repellent was made with your family in mind.

cedarcide.com

 

[wigwamitus]

Yeah, I spray my outdoor clothes with permethrin. But I usually get ticks on me when I run out in my shorts and flipflops ! The good news is they are easy to see on my legs.

There is no "out of the way" on this thread !

 

[cantankerous]

Great write ups!

If you guys want to test detection and PID ability at long range you're welcome to come up my way some weekend.

 

[wigwamitus]

Ok, update from SWMO ...

I've been working on improving the SFAR. Put a new barrel nut/forearm on it - to give me a top rail on the forearm. The factory 16" rifle comes with the forearm top rail carved off and a call to Ruger support confirmed that they would not sell me a forearm with the top rail not carved off, even though they make those available on the 20" barrel models (both of those forearms are 15" themselves). Also the person on the phone was "sure" the barrel nut was a 308 barrel nut. I was looking at it on the phone and it looked like an ar-15 barrel nut to me. When I removed it, I confirmed it is an ar-15 barrel nut.
Go Ruger Support Go - keep trying - you'll get a hit one day !!

There's a long thread on ARF about the SFAR and many people are replacing the AGBs as the factory installed agb seems to be rubbing on the inner wall of the forearm affecting accuracy. So I ordered an SLR agb.
At least 2 people on that thread have "tuned" their SFARs to get sub-moa groups, so I'm trying to get there myself.

There are a LOT of great ideas in the SFAR. Its basically an ar-15 with a 308 barrel !! Now the BCG is proprietary and the lower is crazy different, with a longer forward section for the larger mag well and a shorter FCG area to keep the overall lower length = AR-15 length. It will take a "standard" trigger, but not some of the drop in triggers, as they are "too long".
Does the barrel have a shorter life ? I don't think we could have data on that yet, but I'm gonna slow fire mine for now. I'm not sure Ruger will sell spare barrels - and THAT - could be a serious downside for me. Seems like Ruger doesn't sell spare parts at all.

==


At 6.8 lbs (per spec sheet for the 16" version) the Ruger is a lb lighter than the Windham Weaponry 308 CDI (16") and 1.7 lbs lighter than Sig 762i Tread.

==
==

Finished building the AP (receivers) 16" 762 ...

Its set up more as a sniper-ish rifle currently with the L&S mk6 3-18x t3 scope and radius.

==
And here's one of my bolt guns, this one is 762x51 22" (criterion hvy profile barrel) with NX8 2.5-20x t3. It weighs 15 pds as shown including 10rd mag with 10rds loaded. WIth the radius its 16.2 lbs. These are my "light" rifles (after I sold the AIAX chassis' )

==

I did some collimation testing with the ELR (Theon thermal clipon) .... and did not detect any POI shift on either the bolt gun on the AP stoner.

Bolt gun 3 rd group at 150yds ... .75" group or .75/1.5 = 0.5 iphy

==

Left side is the bolt gun group with the ELR and right side is the 762 AP stoner group with the ELR, aiming point was center of handwarmer from 150yds.

==

This is with some new (to me) Hornady Black AMAX 155 I am testing. This is the MSV3 read out on with the above mentioned bolt gun. mv 2869 with no pressure signs ! This beats 175gr on danger space, lag time and energy out past transonic, yes even energy ! I just can't find a powder that will generate these results. The best I can do with no pressure signs is 2804 MV with RAM tac and Sierra 155 ( #2156 ). Also tried cfe223 but it has a lot of seasonal variation (temp). Haven't tried good ole varget yet. Or 8208 though I have some of both.

 

[TheHorta]

My official Night Op for tonight is stargazing with my panos and spotting satellites — 10-15 visible at a time now, all different intensities, and traveling at different speeds, and directions all the same time. It’s like a crazy highway system in the sky.

 

[wigwamitus]

Here's my new voodoo-ML ... traded some "FRN" to evo9 for it ... the M is sort of a gen2 UTC/UTM hybrid ... oasys core etc. Good for 15x ish on the day scope, but has a diopter AND and software adjustable collimation, though we haven't had a need to use it yet. So far, on the guns we're run it on, its been DOBA.

More to come ...

 

[WhereNow&How]

Dang, that thing looks shhhhhh sweet Wig.

Much better investment than FRN.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Hecque, I just realized its even got the Wilcox flip to side.

You high rolling for sure with that set up.

 

[rlsmith1]

What’s the unit weigh with batteries and mount? Looking good! Hopefully you can get the the max range of that 22lr now

 

[WhereNow&How]

What’s the unit weigh with batteries and mount? Looking good! Hopefully you can get the the max range of that 22lr now

So POT brochure says 18 oz. Yeah I been drooling all over that dam brochure.

That unit is sampling 1 pix = 0.396 Sq Inch at 100 yards and with a BAE core it will be a BEAST.

 

[wigwamitus]

Note the ML is heavier than the M. And the above weight is with the skeet mount and 2xc123.

Hopefully you can get the the max range of that 22lr now

Yeah its definitely overkill on the 22. The buttons are the same as the utc and skeet BUT the functions are different, like now we double tap the menu button to NUC. So I put it on the 22 since I take the 22 out several times per night on barnyard defense and it let's me practice with the buttons.

The Armasight apollo42, shown at the top of the first pic above, is normally on the 22 and for barnyard defense its better as it has more FOV, so soon, the ML will be redeployed and the apollo42 will go back on the 22.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Wig, how many mm is that lens? Nice and big.

 

[wigwamitus]

Depending on where you measure to, from 42-46 mm. The smaller is the part of the lens inside the black lens ring and the 46mm is the whole lens.
The utc xii did not exploit the 12um pitch to make the unit much smaller than the utc x. The M does.
Also remember focal length != lens diameter.

 

[TheHorta]

 

[wigwamitus]

Interestingly, though much larger, the Theon ELR actually fits on this mk18ish ...

Whereas the Voodoo-ML does not.

Part of that has to do with the folded design of the ELR, vs the inline design of the ML.

 

[rlsmith1]

Interestingly, though much larger, the Theon ELR actually fits on this mk18ish ...

Whereas the Voodoo-ML does not.

Part of that has to do with the folded design of the ELR, vs the inline design of the ML.

Why don’t more use the folded design?

Also, when I talked to Dennis at POT he said a 50mm version would be between the M and S (I think he said the M is 70mm). Of course you’ve actually taken measurements on your unit. Sadly, a 40mm or 50mm clip on was not said to be in the works when I asked (sounds like the Voodoo R is 50mm)

 

[WhereNow&How]

Based on pixel density per sq inch I'd say 70 mm for the M looks about right.

 

[Conqueror]

Despite the image quality I feel like I’d still go Voodoo-S on a SBR’ed AR. Tough to beat the weight and size.

 

[wigwamitus]

Also, when I talked to Dennis at POT he said a 50mm version would be between the M and S (I think he said the M is 70mm). Of course you’ve actually taken measurements on your unit. Sadly, a 40mm or 50mm clip on was not said to be in the works when I asked (sounds like the Voodoo R is 50mm)

Again, Dennis and you are talking/thinking focal length. I was asked to measure the lens diameter.
Focal length is the distance between the lens and the sensor. Lens diameter is the distance from one edge of the lens to the opposite edge of the lens. Two different numbers !!!
As I said before focal length != lens diameter !!

Why don’t more use the folded design?

Folded design, in optics, is actually older than inline ... folded uses the "Z" type pattern (done with optical prisms in binoculars). But many companies that have made thermal clipons, made them by modifying their existed thermal weapons sight (scope) designs.

Like the gen1 Apollo thermal clipons from Armasight, are a Zeus with a demagnifying collimating lens on the back, vs the diopter lens on the back of the Zeus.
Many of the chinese clipons are also modified scopes.
The trijicon snipe is a 35mm patrol (aka a reap) with a collimating lens on the back.

That said, many/most military thermal clipons are folded, to make them shorter. A clipon has 2 relevant focal lengths the front end magnified side and the backend demagnified side and they have to match if we are going to be able to use our reticles to hold. We need the net magnification through the optical train to be 1x.
So to have longer focal lengths on both ends, we could make them shorter by using a folded design. Look at LWTS, SPARTN (INOD), UTC, Theon, etc all folded. Small clipons like the VoodooS don't have as much focal length so don't need to be folded. The M is seemingly a hybrid of the UTC and UTM, the UTC was folded, the UTM was not. The M is not, but the M manages to get the same or better performance than the UTC. Exactly how they do that IDK - but they have done it !!

Another reason to use folded design for thermal clipon is getting the larger lens up off the rail.

In front, we have Armasight 100mm (focal length) Apollo Pro, to the rear, UTC-x. Apollo is inline, UTC is folded. Look how LOOOONG the Apollo is compared to the UTC !! Also, the Apollo is 1.9ish center, meaning I had to add a 0.5 riser under the day scope to get it lined up (in the pic the riser is not yet in place).

Because the UTC is folded, the front lens is already on a "riser", though the offset is compensated for by the collimation so the day scope doesn't have to be raised up !!

I suspect the Apollo 100 was done as an inline unit, because it was way cheaper to use the zeus housing and just change out the rear lens assembly, versus making a whole new folded housing.

 

[TheHorta]

Objective on Voodoo-M is 50mm (or 55mm).

 

[wigwamitus]

Objective on Voodoo-M is 50mm (or 55mm).

Focal length or lens diameter ?

 

[TheHorta]

Focal length or lens diameter ?

Die-Eh-MeatHer

 

[Conqueror]

We have to remember that thermal clip-ons don’t have a “light path” the way that NV systems do. When we say they are “folded” we are talking about a different kind of folding than something like a Leupold/Hensoldt spotting scope where the light actually follows a Z-shaped course through the device. A “folded” thermal like a UTC or Theon is just a device that has the IR camera portion mounted on top of the LED screen/demagnifier portion. In theory this should be no harder to design than an “inline” device.

 

[shoobe01]

Good point. The long-discontinued Raytheon-then-L3 X series were a good example of a "folded" or side-by-side design. Here (not my photo) is the innards, showing how most of it is electronics, just a pretty small optical path (shown) for viewing, and a pretty small optical path (not so visible, but the box deep in the left side here) for the thermal sensor.

Here's a totaally different TIC, but a good view of how the thermal camera is a unit that just exports electrical signals, so you can stuff it anywhere and wrap other stuff around it:

 

[wigwamitus]

2024-02-10

1800-2200

35F

10 MPH NNE



Goals: Reduce yote population in neighbor BILs pasture. Test Pot ML. Test Armasight Sidekick.

Environment: Windy, cool, partly cloudy. Orion and B dipper visible but cass and Polaris not visible. Pastures are mostly flat, woods to the SW, S and SE, open to the W, NW, N, NE and E. About 200 cattle visible and a few horses.

Equipment:
(wigwamitus) 762x51(16) L&S mk6 3-18x T3, Radius LRF, POT ML, Amax 155gr
N-Vision Nox-18, Armasight upgraded Sidekick-640, Breach, RRS+anvil 30.

(cantankerous) 6CM(20) Revic 4.7-28, I400 LRF, Theon ELR, Hndy 108 ELD, Breach, Tripod, Fox Pro, 3xoyster pans

Activities: Setup on roof of BIL’s corral (roof is 15 foot in the air, so ) the rifles were about 20 feet in the air, on the tripods.

SIDEKICK TESTING
Tested sidekick side by side with Nox-18 and Breach.
Startup process for sidekick. Turn on and let warm up for 10m with auto-nuc on and compass (and other display items) off. After 10m turn off auto-nuc.
Sidekick much improved and jerkiness is 90% reduced by turning off auto-nuc. We suspect this reduces the load on the CPU.
Sidekick overall performance is between Nox-18 and Breach. Sidekick leans towards the N18 in terms of detection and PID of critters and is similar to breach on terrain. We did not further adjust the SK and had the breach on “sea and sky”.

CRITTER CONTROL
We divided our scanning responsibilities into sectors. Primary anticipated yote ingress routes were to the West, so Cant started out with the W sector and I with the East. We alternated sectors about every 20m and also alternated between detailed scanning with the rifles and clip-ons vs general scanning with the handheld thermal monoculars.

We saw 7 yotes, 2 were at 0.75 miles and 2 others at 1.25 miles. Two came from SW and briefly stood on a pond berm, one for ~3secs and other for about 5secs, but we failed to complete fire distribution plan before they moved down the back side of the berm not to be seen again. We had the call going and their noses were pointed in the direction of the call during their brief stand on the berm. The call was about 150yds to their NW.

At one point we swapped guns (to swap sectors without moving the guns and to give each other a chance to see image the other had been seeing). I have to admit, I felt like on this night with the settings on both units, the ELR had a better image – I was surprised as on my land (forest) the ELR has a poorer image than the M. Then Cant reported seeing a yote coming in and before I could reorient (I was looking NE he was looking NW) he fired and I saw the yote not moving. It was DRT.

Summary: The corral roof is a good firing point for critter control as we have better visibility and fields of fire than we would have on the ground. This was the 4th time we’ve been critter controlling together, we got 1 yote each time except the 3rd, when we were in a different location. That time I was flying a drone and Cant was the shooter setup in the middle of a soybean field. The yotes came in to within 200yds of us that time – but we never saw them as they were in a heavily wooded gully. The other 3 times we were on this corral roof.
We need to have a complete fire distribution plan worked out in advance. We had agreed before hand that I would take the far one and he would take the near one, but in the event the 2 yotes were within 5 feet of each other at the same distance. One was to the left and one to the right. Cant was to the left of me. He said “I’ll take the one on the left” and then they departed within 2 secs. They never looked our way, they were looking in the direction of the call, which was “yote barking” at the time, so no evidence they detected us. But we should not have had to say anything about the fire distribution plan. At most one word “Fire”.
There is also an alternate firing point SE of the berm (SSW of corral) where we could position one shooter, that would give field of fire behind that berm. Given that we have often seen yotes on or near that berm even when not critter controlling, we need to try putting one shooter down there. There’s a diagonal – radial from the corral - fence line that is perfect sector marker to make sure no one moves a barrel past that fence line to the S.
This was the first center fire rifle shot with the M since I got it. Evidence indicates the collimation is solid. Cant said the exit wound was reflective of his POA.

==
Pic of the 762x51 wth radius and M.

 

[Glassaholic]

2024-02-10

1800-2200

35F

10 MPH NNE



Goals: Reduce yote population in neighbor BILs pasture. Test Pot ML. Test Armasight Sidekick.

Environment: Windy, cool, partly cloudy. Orion and B dipper visible but cass and Polaris not visible. Pastures are mostly flat, woods to the SW, S and SE, open to the W, NW, N, NE and E. About 200 cattle visible and a few horses.

Equipment:
(wigwamitus) 762x51(16) L&S mk6 3-18x T3, Radius LRF, POT ML, Amax 155gr
N-Vision Nox-18, Armasight upgraded Sidekick-640, Breach, RRS+anvil 30.

(cantankerous) 6CM(20) Revic 4.7-28, I400 LRF, Theon ELR, Hndy 108 ELD, Breach, Tripod, Fox Pro, 3xoyster pans

Activities: Setup on roof of BIL’s corral (roof is 15 foot in the air, so ) the rifles were about 20 feet in the air, on the tripods.

SIDEKICK TESTING
Tested sidekick side by side with Nox-18 and Breach.
Startup process for sidekick. Turn on and let warm up for 10m with auto-nuc on and compass (and other display items) off. After 10m turn off auto-nuc.
Sidekick much improved and jerkiness is 90% reduced by turning off auto-nuc. We suspect this reduces the load on the CPU.
Sidekick overall performance is between Nox-18 and Breach. Sidekick leans towards the N18 in terms of detection and PID of critters and is similar to breach on terrain. We did not further adjust the SK and had the breach on “sea and sky”.

CRITTER CONTROL
We divided our scanning responsibilities into sectors. Primary anticipated yote ingress routes were to the West, so Cant started out with the W sector and I with the East. We alternated sectors about every 20m and also alternated between detailed scanning with the rifles and clip-ons vs general scanning with the handheld thermal monoculars.

We saw 7 yotes, 2 were at 0.75 miles and 2 others at 1.25 miles. Two came from SW and briefly stood on a pond berm, one for ~3secs and other for about 5secs, but we failed to complete fire distribution plan before they moved down the back side of the berm not to be seen again. We had the call going and their noses were pointed in the direction of the call during their brief stand on the berm. The call was about 150yds to their NW.

At one point we swapped guns (to swap sectors without moving the guns and to give each other a chance to see image the other had been seeing). I have to admit, I felt like on this night with the settings on both units, the ELR had a better image – I was surprised as on my land (forest) the ELR has a poorer image than the M. Then Cant reported seeing a yote coming in and before I could reorient (I was looking NE he was looking NW) he fired and I saw the yote not moving. It was DRT.

Summary: The corral roof is a good firing point for critter control as we have better visibility and fields of fire than we would have on the ground. This was the 4th time we’ve been critter controlling together, we got 1 yote each time except the 3rd, when we were in a different location. That time I was flying a drone and Cant was the shooter setup in the middle of a soybean field. The yotes came in to within 200yds of us that time – but we never saw them as they were in a heavily wooded gully. The other 3 times we were on this corral roof.
We need to have a complete fire distribution plan worked out in advance. We had agreed before hand that I would take the far one and he would take the near one, but in the event the 2 yotes were within 5 feet of each other at the same distance. One was to the left and one to the right. Cant was to the left of me. He said “I’ll take the one on the left” and then they departed within 2 secs. They never looked our way, they were looking in the direction of the call, which was “yote barking” at the time, so no evidence they detected us. But we should not have had to say anything about the fire distribution plan. At most one word “Fire”.
There is also an alternate firing point SE of the berm (SSW of corral) where we could position one shooter, that would give field of fire behind that berm. Given that we have often seen yotes on or near that berm even when not critter controlling, we need to try putting one shooter down there. There’s a diagonal – radial from the corral - fence line that is perfect sector marker to make sure no one moves a barrel past that fence line to the S.
This was the first center fire rifle shot with the M since I got it. Evidence indicates the collimation is solid. Cant said the exit wound was reflective of his POA.

==
Pic of the 762x51 wth radius and M.

I always love your detailed range reports Wig. They are as entertaining as they are informative, greatly appreciated.

 

[wigwamitus]

2024-03-02
2000-2400
40F
15 MPH S

Goal: Check this pasture for yotes

Environment: Above freezing, clear, windy. We could see big dipper, cass and hence polaris above our heads and orion to the S.

Equipment:
me(7PRC bolt gun, nx8 2.5-20x t3, Pot M thermal clipon, radius LRF, Hndy 180gr ELD) on RRS
cant(6mmCM bolt gun, revic 4.5-28x, Theon ELR thermal clipon, I4000 LRF, ammo x) on tripod Y
GuideIR 640(50) 35mm on Manfrotto as a spotter
GuideIR 384(50)25mm on Manfrotto as a spotter
Nox18 on head as a mobile spotter

Activity:

Here's a 360 of the area at dusk as we started to setup



I had walked about 600yds due S behind a treeline to check a bone pile area for signs of yotes. No flesh in the bone pile area, just clean bones.

By the end of dusk we were setup with all the gear ready for the big show.
We also had a Fox Pro and had it aimed at the treeline on the top of the ridge and on full power. We ran it dozens of times while we were there.
We saw lots of coons and opossum, but no yotes.

Here's me wandering around with my Nox18 ... and Cant taking video with the 35mm 640 GuideIR.




And here's a pan of the basic area of interest.



Summary: Well disappointing in that no yotes spotted. Next time we go to this pasture, we'll consider bringing a drone and perhaps more mobile setups.

Here's an image of the 7PRC ... no shots fired that night in this pasture.

 

[longtines]

SOK is an awesome dude!

 

[FF05]

Following for the KillDozer build update

 

[wigwamitus]

2024-01/02
2000-0500
70F
NW 3 MPH

Goals: Barnyard defense

Environment: Starting to cool off ... overcast, barely whiff of wind from NW

Equipment: Mk12ish, ATACR 1-8x dmx, PoT ML, 77gr IMI, RRS+anvil, Radius

Activity: Started going out 3 times per night starting on 1 Sept as Cows should start calving soon. Have heard yotes both nights so far, but none seen. So far they hang out at neighbors, but once they smell blood I figure they'll be here.
Got 3 chicken predators on the 1st night, a skunk and 2 coons. Distances 68 to 126 yds. Hard to find a shot over 200yds around the house here due to being surrounded by forest !
The 2 coons were together, got the first one, the second ran off aways, turned around to look back, BANG. The coons flopped around a little after being hit.
The skunk got off a squirt before expiring, its been smelly, but smell was gone today. Looks like I carved a channel across the back of the skunk. But it did not move after the shot.