No 147gr ELD-M love?

[Keyst0ne]

Recently started loading for my 6.5 creedmoor and have been using the 147gr ELD-M over 42.9gr of H4350 for 2,830 fps. The 147gr appears to have the best BC in the 6.5 class except for the Sierra 150s (which I have a box of too).

Looking around though, it seems the Berger 140s and other lower BC bullets are more popular for long range precision. Is that perception accurate and if so, why is that? I've always thought BC is king for known distance targets.

 

[HoustonB77]

I'm running them in my 20 inch 260. 2734 with an SD of 3.

 

[spife7980]

Bc is king for unknown distance targets, a little more slippery makes it a little more forgiving. If you know how far it is then you just have to dial accordingly. But bc is velocity driven, if you can’t drive the bullet fast enough you won’t be able to take advantage of the full bc value. Bergers calculator will tell you how much % your bc is dropping. And even the best bc number in the world won’t necessarily make it accurate.

 

[steve123]

IMO to take full advantage of the BC potential a faster twist like 7.25 should be used with the 147 and 150's. Next reason is the 147 has extra recoil which moves away from people favoring less recoil when shooting off barricades and other obstacles. Furthermore in matches when most shots are inside 600Y the extra BC doesn't come into play as much as farther out.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I have a box to fiddle with. Haven't touched them yet.

 

[Supersubes]

Yowza, 42.9 gr in either of my creedmoors would be a grenade. Hell, I don’t shoot 140’s anywhere near that.

I’ve been shooting the 147 exclusively for the past 6 months or so. Results have been good, and i’ll continue shooting them. At the velocities I’m shooting them, they are twins at 1k. I think the 147 will shine in the larger cases like the PRC or saum.

Admittedly, I haven’t met an ELD I didnt like across a few bore sizes at this point.

 

[M47Patton]

IMO to take full advantage of the BC potential a faster twist like 7.25 should be used with the 147 and 150's. Next reason is the 147 has extra recoil which moves away from people favoring less recoil when shooting off barricades and other obstacles. Furthermore in matches when most shots are inside 600Y the extra BC doesn't come into play as much as farther out.

According to Hornady they recommend a 1-8.5 twist for their 147 eld.

Using Bergers twist calculator, at 1-8.5 twist you need at least 2800fps. Anything under puts you in marginal stability. A 1-8 twist is comfortably stable, even at a velocity as low as 2600 fps.

I shoot the 147s out to 1000 yards regularly with my 260 @ 2800 fps and have not noticed any inconsistencies.

The Sierra 150 smk is a good bit longer than the 147 eld (1.435 vs 1.5 in). Sierra does recommend a 1-7.5 twist.

Plugging the Sierra data into Bergers tool, looks like a 1-8 @ 2700fps or fast is enough to stabilize the 150 smk, but its right on the edge, so yea.. with those 150 smk you'd want something faster than 1-8.


In regards to consistency, I've read anecdotes over on accurateshooter.com that at distance the hornady elds are not as consistent as the bergers. One example was a guy in the UK who shot F Class using bergers one year and then switched to ELDs the following year. The year he shot hornadys he supposedly had a significant drop in the leader boards.

I don't compete nor do I keep paper scores of anything beyond 300 yards so I can't comment on the validity of this idea that hornady's are less consistent compared to some of the more popular competition bullets. I can say, that at 1000 yards with my 260s, the humble hornady 140gr bthp shot as good or better (as in consistent hits on target) as 140 & 147 elds, 140 rdf, and berger 140gr hybrids.

 

[GIXXER2000]

I am looking forward to trying both the 147-M and the 150SMK in 6.5 cm. I ordered a 26 in 1-7 for my AI-AT or AX not sure which one will get that barrel. I also have a 26 in 1-7 coming for 6 cm. both are Dave Tooley Bartlein 5r barrels. I do a lot of LR shooting both Creedmoor's out to 1500 yards. I expect them both to be good.

 

[Stpilot12]

Accuracy is KING... Higher BC is icing on the cake.

I've been playing with the 147ELD along side the 140ELD for a bit now and they shoot great. I'm running a DT with a 1:8 30" tube, my 140's are running 2918fps and the 147's are 2898fps. They have the exact same poi @100 so I can run them interchangeably. I made a slight BC adjustment but they're pretty much spot on to 1200. So other than maybe .1-.2 better in the wind, they really shoot the same as the 140 for me. I havent really noticed a difference in recoil, shooting prone and tripod but I can see how perhaps off a barricade may differ. Like @steve123 said, inside of 600 or even 800 yards or in a Comp setting, youre not really taking advantage of the higher BC or be able to see the difference from the 140's. FWIW the Berger 140H is also a great bullet, I run these @2915fps, laser accurate.

 

[B y r o n]

I just started playing with them. Running through a Ruger American Preditor. So far 40.8 gr of Hybrid 100 in Hornady cases with Federal Match primers is working best.

 

[Ronin65]

According to Hornady they recommend a 1-8.5 twist for their 147 eld.

Using Bergers twist calculator, at 1-8.5 twist you need at least 2800fps. Anything under puts you in marginal stability. A 1-8 twist is comfortably stable, even at a velocity as low as 2600 fps.

I shoot the 147s out to 1000 yards regularly with my 260 @ 2800 fps and have not noticed any inconsistencies.

The Sierra 150 smk is a good bit longer than the 147 eld (1.435 vs 1.5 in). Sierra does recommend a 1-7.5 twist.

Plugging the Sierra data into Bergers tool, looks like a 1-8 @ 2700fps or fast is enough to stabilize the 150 smk, but its right on the edge, so yea.. with those 150 smk you'd want something faster than 1-8.


In regards to consistency, I've read anecdotes over on accurateshooter.com that at distance the hornady elds are not as consistent as the bergers. One example was a guy in the UK who shot F Class using bergers one year and then switched to ELDs the following year. The year he shot hornadys he supposedly had a significant drop in the leader boards.

I don't compete nor do I keep paper scores of anything beyond 300 yards so I can't comment on the validity of this idea that hornady's are less consistent compared to some of the more popular competition bullets. I can say, that at 1000 yards with my 260s, the humble hornady 140gr bthp shot as good or better (as in consistent hits on target) as 140 & 147 elds, 140 rdf, and berger 140gr hybrids.

I won’t say that am 8.5 twist barrel will not work, but I think it would be at the extreme slow end of what would. My experience with 6.5s has been with 8 twist barrels. Some years ago I tried some custom 147 or 148 grain custom bullets in a 6.5-08 (.260 Rem). I never really found the right combination for it and, quite frankly, quit trying. By the time I got into the velocity window I was interested in it was unpleasant to shoot in a ten pound rifle.

The 139-142 grain weight class bullets may be a better compromise of weight/BC/velocity than the heavier ones. There is a definite loss of velocity going up in weight from the 130 grain class of bullets in these medium size cases. Run the numbers, including recoil and see what you think.

 

[Rob01]

IMO to take full advantage of the BC potential a faster twist like 7.25 should be used with the 147 and 150's. Next reason is the 147 has extra recoil which moves away from people favoring less recoil when shooting off barricades and other obstacles. Furthermore in matches when most shots are inside 600Y the extra BC doesn't come into play as much as farther out.

No you don't need that fast of a twist. The 8 twist works fine and what the BC was derived with.

With a brake the recoil difference isn't felt. I shoot both the 140 and 147 and don't feel any difference in shooting them frombehind the rifle.

OP, the bullet is fairly new and is just starting to get people p[laying with it. I really like it in the Creedmoor. Loading it I get 2820fps with my rifle and the factory ammo is 2720fps.

 

[steve123]

I didn't mean "need" though did I Rob. I meant what I wrote which is this...
IMO to take """""full advantage of the BC potential""""" a faster twist like 7.25 should be used with the 147 and 150's.

will a 147 work through a slower twist within the edge of stability, of course it will. Is the BC with a 147 out of a 8.5 twist maximized, no, is it maximized out of an 8 twist, no I think not.

Will a 147 have a maximized BC potential with a faster twist, yes, and that's what I will use when the time comes.
And just as I've mentioned before, whoever wants to can go look at the BC potential on Hornady's website of the 30 cal 225 ELDM with a 7 twist compared to a 10 twist, the BC is substantially higher with the faster twist, which is what I'm after and I assume most shooters would be too.

30 Cal 225 gr. ELD Match
1 in 10" Twist

0.777 G1
0.391 G7

30 Cal 225 gr. ELD Match
1 in 7" Twist

0.798 G1
0.402 G7

How much higher the 147's BC would be with the optimal twist is the big question??? I might conjecture it's over .71???

But still, we are trading the BC of the 147 for the velocity of the 140's which only pans out past a certain distance.

Am I wrong here? Are you saying the 147's BC potential is at max with an 8 twist because the current BC was derived with that twist?

I want to try all the super long and heavy 6.5's so I'm getting a faster twist for my next barrel so as not to take a chance with the problems associated with edge stability and to take advantage of full BC potential.

 

[J McGriddle]

But still, we are trading the BC of the 147 for the velocity of the 140's which only pans out past a certain distance

This is why I'm not shooting the 147s.

 

[tnbowhunter]

My brother with an rpr is shooting 147’s over rl 16 and getting the same speed as my 140 accuracy node with 4350. Both loads very good accuracy

 

[Rob01]

The 8 twist was used to derive that BC as the 8 twist is the most used in the 6.5s. Can you squeak out .005 or so more BC with a faster twist? Possibly but it will make no meaningful difference as this bullet is not like the .30 or 7mm bullets listed with a slower and faster twist in the BC listing. If it were then it would have been tested and listed as such.

And no you trading anything as you can get the 147 to close to 140 velocities. My load is within 30fps. It's another bullet to try for people wanting to get the max BC for their round. Like people who shoot 208s-230s in a .308 vs a 178 area bullet but the 147 is more attuned to the 6.5 Creedmoor than the super heavies are in the .308.

Also your post came off as you won;t get the .697 BC with an 8 twist and I wanted to make sure no one misread it and start spreading that rumor around the internet.

 

[patriot07]

Seems like too much velocity trade-off. I doubt most folks could safely run a 147 over 42.9 grains of H-4350 at 2,830 fps.

The factory 140 ELD-M ammo is about 100 fps slower than that. And I'd say it seems that 50%+ of reloaders aren't getting 2,830 fps on the 140. And in all honesty, the benefits just aren't that significant unless you're pushing the 6.5 CM to the limits. Shooting at 1k or less, the 140 just performs so well and does it with such ease and consistency that trying to work the 147 is the equivalent of pushing a 90 grain pill with a 223. It's not that it can't be done, but the benefits are only seen when pushing the limits of the 223 cartridge. And most 6.5 shooters aren't pushing the limits of a 6.5 CM.

JMHO