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NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
- Thread starter GONIF
- Start date
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
Disclaimer: I'm not trying to start any rumors... just throwing something out there for discussion. I may be totally wrong.
I have heard from quite a few people that POF may be getting bought out/selling patents or changing company names for some reason. This rumor has been going around locally for a few months. I don't know any details and definitely CANNOT confirm any of this but.... Is it a coincidence that Hogan makes piston AR's that are very similar to POF's? They're both from Glendale. I live here and am familiar with the majority of manufacturers but don't know much about Hogan. Maybe I've just been sleeping under a rock. They have a 2011 copyright. I realize they may be knock offs or clones, I've just never heard of Hogan before. Anyone else hear something similar about POF?
Taken from Hogan's website:
"For the last seven years we have focused on the specialization, designing, engineering, manufacturing and testing of AR style rifles and components; uppers, lowers and miscellaneous gun accessories for other companies. Now, in 2011 we are extremely proud to begin production of and introduce to the market our own custom firearms and related accessory products under the HOGAN name. Having designed and manufactured AR type rifle components for many companies over the years, we are taking the opportunity to deliver our version of what we feel a premium rifle should be. We are sure you will agree and be extremely satisfied with the durability, reliability and performance of our H-223 and our H-308 firearms."
Disclaimer: I'm not trying to start any rumors... just throwing something out there for discussion. I may be totally wrong.
I have heard from quite a few people that POF may be getting bought out/selling patents or changing company names for some reason. This rumor has been going around locally for a few months. I don't know any details and definitely CANNOT confirm any of this but.... Is it a coincidence that Hogan makes piston AR's that are very similar to POF's? They're both from Glendale. I live here and am familiar with the majority of manufacturers but don't know much about Hogan. Maybe I've just been sleeping under a rock. They have a 2011 copyright. I realize they may be knock offs or clones, I've just never heard of Hogan before. Anyone else hear something similar about POF?
Taken from Hogan's website:
"For the last seven years we have focused on the specialization, designing, engineering, manufacturing and testing of AR style rifles and components; uppers, lowers and miscellaneous gun accessories for other companies. Now, in 2011 we are extremely proud to begin production of and introduce to the market our own custom firearms and related accessory products under the HOGAN name. Having designed and manufactured AR type rifle components for many companies over the years, we are taking the opportunity to deliver our version of what we feel a premium rifle should be. We are sure you will agree and be extremely satisfied with the durability, reliability and performance of our H-223 and our H-308 firearms."
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
In a nutshell Hogan has manufactured the parts under contract for POF, now they are using those same parts and making rifles under their name. Lawsuits are in the works and it's all about the mighty dollar.
Same product, different name on the rifle.
In a nutshell Hogan has manufactured the parts under contract for POF, now they are using those same parts and making rifles under their name. Lawsuits are in the works and it's all about the mighty dollar.
Same product, different name on the rifle.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattsnuked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a nutshell Hogan has manufactured the parts under contract for POF, now they are using those same parts and making rifles under their name. Lawsuits are in the works and it's all about the mighty dollar.
Same product, different name on the rifle. </div></div>
makes sense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattsnuked</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In a nutshell Hogan has manufactured the parts under contract for POF, now they are using those same parts and making rifles under their name. Lawsuits are in the works and it's all about the mighty dollar.
Same product, different name on the rifle. </div></div>
makes sense
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
I have dealt with Hogan and been very pleased. I originally bought a POF P308 lower privately from one of the employees locally here in AZ. In fact, he didn't even mentioned that he worked for Hogan at the time. When I asked him a few questions about the lower I found out that he worked for Hogan. I have been extremely pleased with not only the quality of service I have recieved from them, but the prices have been great as well. When I asked about buying just a bolt carrier group, they offered to assemble my upper as they had the tools & know how. They didn't charge me for anything except the BCG and even it was cheaper then the POF version. The only difference was Hogan was laser etched on the side instead of POF. If anybody wants an early style Predator rail to chop up (make a cheap Hunter style rail), Hogan has some for sale.
Hogan is a manufacture that makes alot of different parts for a bunch of different things. They are primarily sub-contracted out, which is why you never hear of their name. When I was at their shop, they mentioned that they make a bunch of airplane parts as well as parts for just about any machine you can think of. In fact, my stepson was with me and mentioned he liked model trains. They stated that they wouldn't be surprised if they made some of the small parts for it.
I don't know the specifics, nor do I really want to get into somebody's business as there is always 2 sides to any story. But Hogan & POF had a falling out as businesses do. It doesn't make either a bad company, but they are getting it settled in court. Hopefully it all get worked out without anybody going out of business.
Hogan made alot of the parts for POF. I believe they did alot of the designing as well, but I don't know that for a fact. So the Hogan Guns are not really a clone. They are made by the same people and in the same place. They are finished by the same sub-contractors to the same specs. They did mention that they are working over the design and will have some new features in the near future.
I have dealt with Hogan and been very pleased. I originally bought a POF P308 lower privately from one of the employees locally here in AZ. In fact, he didn't even mentioned that he worked for Hogan at the time. When I asked him a few questions about the lower I found out that he worked for Hogan. I have been extremely pleased with not only the quality of service I have recieved from them, but the prices have been great as well. When I asked about buying just a bolt carrier group, they offered to assemble my upper as they had the tools & know how. They didn't charge me for anything except the BCG and even it was cheaper then the POF version. The only difference was Hogan was laser etched on the side instead of POF. If anybody wants an early style Predator rail to chop up (make a cheap Hunter style rail), Hogan has some for sale.
Hogan is a manufacture that makes alot of different parts for a bunch of different things. They are primarily sub-contracted out, which is why you never hear of their name. When I was at their shop, they mentioned that they make a bunch of airplane parts as well as parts for just about any machine you can think of. In fact, my stepson was with me and mentioned he liked model trains. They stated that they wouldn't be surprised if they made some of the small parts for it.
I don't know the specifics, nor do I really want to get into somebody's business as there is always 2 sides to any story. But Hogan & POF had a falling out as businesses do. It doesn't make either a bad company, but they are getting it settled in court. Hopefully it all get worked out without anybody going out of business.
Hogan made alot of the parts for POF. I believe they did alot of the designing as well, but I don't know that for a fact. So the Hogan Guns are not really a clone. They are made by the same people and in the same place. They are finished by the same sub-contractors to the same specs. They did mention that they are working over the design and will have some new features in the near future.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
MM1776 and Yellowcarbon, thank you for your input on the whole Hogan/POF situation. It is much appreciated by those of who own POF rifles and are left wondering what will happen if POF is no longer around and something goes wrong with the rifle during the warranty period. I guess if it came right down to it, I could make a short drive up to Kansas and have the guys at G.A. Precision turn my rifle into a customized GAP-10.
MM1776 and Yellowcarbon, thank you for your input on the whole Hogan/POF situation. It is much appreciated by those of who own POF rifles and are left wondering what will happen if POF is no longer around and something goes wrong with the rifle during the warranty period. I guess if it came right down to it, I could make a short drive up to Kansas and have the guys at G.A. Precision turn my rifle into a customized GAP-10.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
I spoke to Frank from POF a few days ago, they aren't going anywhere in fact I think they have only been quiet because they plan on really hitting back pretty hard, so I wouldn't count the chickens before they've hatched.
Getting a machine shop to take up the slack is not hard in this day and age.
I spoke to Frank from POF a few days ago, they aren't going anywhere in fact I think they have only been quiet because they plan on really hitting back pretty hard, so I wouldn't count the chickens before they've hatched.
Getting a machine shop to take up the slack is not hard in this day and age.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I spoke to Frank from POF a few days ago, they aren't going anywhere in fact I think they have only been quiet because they plan on really hitting back pretty hard, so I wouldn't count the chickens before they've hatched.
Getting a machine shop to take up the slack is not hard in this day and age. </div></div>
That is AWESOME news to hear! THANK YOU!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I spoke to Frank from POF a few days ago, they aren't going anywhere in fact I think they have only been quiet because they plan on really hitting back pretty hard, so I wouldn't count the chickens before they've hatched.
Getting a machine shop to take up the slack is not hard in this day and age. </div></div>
That is AWESOME news to hear! THANK YOU!
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
I'm acrss town from Hogan/POF, and I have seen the situation first hand. Hogan has always manufactured POF's components (receivers, triggers, rails, bolts, their fancy roller cam pins.....everything). Their buildings are even connected..........separated only by the machine shop that contours and finishes their barrels.
What I dont know, is who owns the patents and design rights to the POF/Hogan line of rifles? I'm sure both Hogan and POF both claim to own the design rights, which is probably pertinent to their current situation.
As far as who is supplying GAP with their receivers; who knows, but I do know they are manufactured in Hogan's shop by their employees, just like the POF components were.
I think the reason people are bitter against Hogan is because they feel they are selling knockoff POF's. It's a well known fact that there are only a handful of companies in the industry that manufacture 99% of the components for the AR15-AR308-AR-10 platform.
I'm personally looking forward to seeing what comes out of POF when things get straightened out. Hopefully, they will have some new/unique products coming out, just like they have in the past. Until then, a Hogan made rifle is everybit as good as the POF, unless POF was using Gypsy tears and Unicorn jizz to assemble the Hogan manufactured components.
I'm acrss town from Hogan/POF, and I have seen the situation first hand. Hogan has always manufactured POF's components (receivers, triggers, rails, bolts, their fancy roller cam pins.....everything). Their buildings are even connected..........separated only by the machine shop that contours and finishes their barrels.
What I dont know, is who owns the patents and design rights to the POF/Hogan line of rifles? I'm sure both Hogan and POF both claim to own the design rights, which is probably pertinent to their current situation.
As far as who is supplying GAP with their receivers; who knows, but I do know they are manufactured in Hogan's shop by their employees, just like the POF components were.
I think the reason people are bitter against Hogan is because they feel they are selling knockoff POF's. It's a well known fact that there are only a handful of companies in the industry that manufacture 99% of the components for the AR15-AR308-AR-10 platform.
I'm personally looking forward to seeing what comes out of POF when things get straightened out. Hopefully, they will have some new/unique products coming out, just like they have in the past. Until then, a Hogan made rifle is everybit as good as the POF, unless POF was using Gypsy tears and Unicorn jizz to assemble the Hogan manufactured components.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
I think the competition the will evolve out of this is good for the consumer. While I don't like to see people involved in conflict over money, I do understand how is happens and have gotten into it myself. The good I can see coming out of this is both POF & Hogan coming out with new products to compete with not only each other, but the AR .308 market as a whole.
I think the competition the will evolve out of this is good for the consumer. While I don't like to see people involved in conflict over money, I do understand how is happens and have gotten into it myself. The good I can see coming out of this is both POF & Hogan coming out with new products to compete with not only each other, but the AR .308 market as a whole.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
This is what I was thinking. Direct competition should make a better product at a possibly better price for the customer. Although if news were to appear that one company definitely screwed the other, that would sway my choice when choosing my purchase.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yellowcarbon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the competition the will evolve out of this is good for the consumer. While I don't like to see people involved in conflict over money, I do understand how is happens and have gotten into it myself. The good I can see coming out of this is both POF & Hogan coming out with new products to compete with not only each other, but the AR .308 market as a whole.</div></div>
This is what I was thinking. Direct competition should make a better product at a possibly better price for the customer. Although if news were to appear that one company definitely screwed the other, that would sway my choice when choosing my purchase.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: yellowcarbon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the competition the will evolve out of this is good for the consumer. While I don't like to see people involved in conflict over money, I do understand how is happens and have gotten into it myself. The good I can see coming out of this is both POF & Hogan coming out with new products to compete with not only each other, but the AR .308 market as a whole.</div></div>
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
Unless Hogan is violating a non-compete agreement made with POF or anyone else I don't understand the hostility towards them marketing the products that they have been selling all along thru other companies. The last time I checked I thought that we were supposed to be a free market economy and actually encourage entrepeneurship. If I am missing something besides a non-compete please fill me in.
Unless Hogan is violating a non-compete agreement made with POF or anyone else I don't understand the hostility towards them marketing the products that they have been selling all along thru other companies. The last time I checked I thought that we were supposed to be a free market economy and actually encourage entrepeneurship. If I am missing something besides a non-compete please fill me in.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Training Wheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless Hogan is violating a non-compete agreement made with POF or anyone else I don't understand the hostility towards them marketing the products that they have been selling all along thru other companies. The last time I checked I thought that we were supposed to be a free market economy and actually encourage entrepeneurship. If I am missing something besides a non-compete please fill me in.</div></div>
So TW,
By your example, I have a large sewing company that makes products for others, if TAB or TIS came to me to make their slings in larger quantities, and I turn around and decide, <span style="font-style: italic">"well shoot, these things sell great, why not cut out TAB or TIS and sell it myself"</span> that is free market ?
Now one can argue that if TAB or TIS didn't protect themselves, as you are, then all is fair in Free Market War, are we reading this correctly ?
The effort is all POF, the fact Hogan was contracted to make their product, doesn't mean -- have at it, or does it ? That would be the question, and I think the reason you see the distaste being put out there. Regardless of the reason for the falling out, if personalities clash, should a contracting company be allowed to walk out the door and build it themselves ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Training Wheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless Hogan is violating a non-compete agreement made with POF or anyone else I don't understand the hostility towards them marketing the products that they have been selling all along thru other companies. The last time I checked I thought that we were supposed to be a free market economy and actually encourage entrepeneurship. If I am missing something besides a non-compete please fill me in.</div></div>
So TW,
By your example, I have a large sewing company that makes products for others, if TAB or TIS came to me to make their slings in larger quantities, and I turn around and decide, <span style="font-style: italic">"well shoot, these things sell great, why not cut out TAB or TIS and sell it myself"</span> that is free market ?
Now one can argue that if TAB or TIS didn't protect themselves, as you are, then all is fair in Free Market War, are we reading this correctly ?
The effort is all POF, the fact Hogan was contracted to make their product, doesn't mean -- have at it, or does it ? That would be the question, and I think the reason you see the distaste being put out there. Regardless of the reason for the falling out, if personalities clash, should a contracting company be allowed to walk out the door and build it themselves ?
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
Being up on all of this B4 I started the post I was just trying to see Why there was no love for Hogan ,most have never heard of Hogan. I can't say who was in the wrong POF or Hogan .Most of us who are into firearms/shooting in Phoenix know Hogan built guns and parts for POF for some time now. If POF has a patent on it they will win in court.Piston guns are nothing new . IMHO it will end up with both doing fine with out the other. The <span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">rumor</span></span> was that it was a financial problom ,not a patent/coppyright issue .
Being up on all of this B4 I started the post I was just trying to see Why there was no love for Hogan ,most have never heard of Hogan. I can't say who was in the wrong POF or Hogan .Most of us who are into firearms/shooting in Phoenix know Hogan built guns and parts for POF for some time now. If POF has a patent on it they will win in court.Piston guns are nothing new . IMHO it will end up with both doing fine with out the other. The <span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">rumor</span></span> was that it was a financial problom ,not a patent/coppyright issue .
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Training Wheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless Hogan is violating a non-compete agreement made with POF or anyone else I don't understand the hostility towards them marketing the products that they have been selling all along thru other companies. The last time I checked I thought that we were supposed to be a free market economy and actually encourage entrepeneurship. If I am missing something besides a non-compete please fill me in.</div></div>
So TW,
By your example, I have a large sewing company that makes products for others, if TAB or TIS came to me to make their slings in larger quantities, and I turn around and decide, <span style="font-style: italic">"well shoot, these things sell great, why not cut out TAB or TIS and sell it myself"</span> that is free market ?
Now one can argue that if TAB or TIS didn't protect themselves, as you are, then all is fair in Free Market War, are we reading this correctly ?
The effort is all POF, the fact Hogan was contracted to make their product, doesn't mean -- have at it, or does it ? That would be the question, and I think the reason you see the distaste being put out there. Regardless of the reason for the falling out, if personalities clash, should a contracting company be allowed to walk out the door and build it themselves ? </div></div>
Well said but in the the TIS/TAB case I would have to arm wrestle Tony to see who held the AH while the other got some payback LOL Just kidding maybe
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Training Wheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless Hogan is violating a non-compete agreement made with POF or anyone else I don't understand the hostility towards them marketing the products that they have been selling all along thru other companies. The last time I checked I thought that we were supposed to be a free market economy and actually encourage entrepeneurship. If I am missing something besides a non-compete please fill me in.</div></div>
So TW,
By your example, I have a large sewing company that makes products for others, if TAB or TIS came to me to make their slings in larger quantities, and I turn around and decide, <span style="font-style: italic">"well shoot, these things sell great, why not cut out TAB or TIS and sell it myself"</span> that is free market ?
Now one can argue that if TAB or TIS didn't protect themselves, as you are, then all is fair in Free Market War, are we reading this correctly ?
The effort is all POF, the fact Hogan was contracted to make their product, doesn't mean -- have at it, or does it ? That would be the question, and I think the reason you see the distaste being put out there. Regardless of the reason for the falling out, if personalities clash, should a contracting company be allowed to walk out the door and build it themselves ? </div></div>
Well said but in the the TIS/TAB case I would have to arm wrestle Tony to see who held the AH while the other got some payback LOL Just kidding maybe
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The effort is all POF, the fact Hogan was contracted to make their product, doesn't mean -- have at it, or does it ? That would be the question, and I think the reason you see the distaste being put out there. Regardless of the reason for the falling out, if personalities clash, should a contracting company be allowed to walk out the door and build it themselves ? </div></div>
If Hogan took the design and R&D that POF brought to them and are selling it on their own then they deserve to crash and burn with a headstone made of turds and ill wishes. This apparently was the part of the story that I was not aware of until now, If this is the case Hogan will NEVER see a dime of my money. I don't know the particulars of the agreement between POF and Hogan but there is such a thing as ethics.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The effort is all POF, the fact Hogan was contracted to make their product, doesn't mean -- have at it, or does it ? That would be the question, and I think the reason you see the distaste being put out there. Regardless of the reason for the falling out, if personalities clash, should a contracting company be allowed to walk out the door and build it themselves ? </div></div>
If Hogan took the design and R&D that POF brought to them and are selling it on their own then they deserve to crash and burn with a headstone made of turds and ill wishes. This apparently was the part of the story that I was not aware of until now, If this is the case Hogan will NEVER see a dime of my money. I don't know the particulars of the agreement between POF and Hogan but there is such a thing as ethics.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
It will be interesting to see if/how things play out in court for POF and Hogan. Typically when we hear a story, we only get one side of the story. If it does go to court, what comes out in the case will be a matter of public record and everyone will be able to see the facts behind this situation.
Does POF have any patents on their firearms/parts? After a quick look on their website, I could not see the words patented or patent pending on their site.
It will be interesting to see if/how things play out in court for POF and Hogan. Typically when we hear a story, we only get one side of the story. If it does go to court, what comes out in the case will be a matter of public record and everyone will be able to see the facts behind this situation.
Does POF have any patents on their firearms/parts? After a quick look on their website, I could not see the words patented or patent pending on their site.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I spoke to Frank from POF a few days ago, they aren't going anywhere in fact I think they have only been quiet because they plan on really hitting back pretty hard, so I wouldn't count the chickens before they've hatched.
Getting a machine shop to take up the slack is not hard in this day and age. </div></div>
Thanks for shedding some light on that Frank. POF has been great to me and I will continue to support them. I say shun Hogan like a leper.
Here is a video that the largest POF distributor made a while back about Hogans "products".
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ag1lzZBFUp0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ag1lzZBFUp0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I spoke to Frank from POF a few days ago, they aren't going anywhere in fact I think they have only been quiet because they plan on really hitting back pretty hard, so I wouldn't count the chickens before they've hatched.
Getting a machine shop to take up the slack is not hard in this day and age. </div></div>
Thanks for shedding some light on that Frank. POF has been great to me and I will continue to support them. I say shun Hogan like a leper.
Here is a video that the largest POF distributor made a while back about Hogans "products".
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ag1lzZBFUp0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ag1lzZBFUp0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RMW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It will be interesting to see if/how things play out in court for POF and Hogan. Typically when we hear a story, we only get one side of the story. If it does go to court, what comes out in the case will be a matter of public record and everyone will be able to see the facts behind this situation.
Does POF have any patents on their firearms/parts? After a quick look on their website, I could not see the words patented or patent pending on their site.
</div></div> They have patent number on the guns themselves.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RMW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It will be interesting to see if/how things play out in court for POF and Hogan. Typically when we hear a story, we only get one side of the story. If it does go to court, what comes out in the case will be a matter of public record and everyone will be able to see the facts behind this situation.
Does POF have any patents on their firearms/parts? After a quick look on their website, I could not see the words patented or patent pending on their site.
</div></div> They have patent number on the guns themselves.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RagnarDM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So who is making the parts for the GAP10 right now?</div></div>
GAP is Oficially staying Neutral to this, Frank and Robert will either settle this or the court will settle it for them, plain and simple.
I have spoken to both Parties and Both have assured me that this is not going to affect GAP-10 production.
I wish both men the best
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RagnarDM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So who is making the parts for the GAP10 right now?</div></div>
GAP is Oficially staying Neutral to this, Frank and Robert will either settle this or the court will settle it for them, plain and simple.
I have spoken to both Parties and Both have assured me that this is not going to affect GAP-10 production.
I wish both men the best
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
I don't have a fight in this either, but want to make a couple of observations.
I have a nylon company, lots of people know that. What a lot of people don't know is that we also do contract sewing for some other people who don't have their own sewing capabilities. Some of these products are pretty neat items that I wish I'd come up with myself.
All of the people I do contract sewing for have no contracts with me at all. We operate on a hand shake and personal integrity relationship.
I'll NEVER stick any of these other people in the ass by all of a sudden refusing to make the items for them and all of a sudden TAB GEAR starts offering these new products with my own label.
Could I legally refuse to make these products for these companies and start offering them with my own label? Yes I could, but I have to sleep with the decisions I make.
I'm getting very sick and tired seeing the phrases, "competition is good for the consumer" "Hey it's a free world" to justify screwing someone over.
Entrepreneurship is when you get up, work hard, and develop something on your own, not steal the ideas someone else has worked their ass off figuring out.
Direct competition is one thing, and it's what made this country great. Screwing some one over is an entirely different thing and people who do that ought to have their asses handed to them.
Just because something isn't patented doesn't mean it's Aok to just start making the same thing yourself. For people that spout off about "Hey he should have patented that gidget if he wanted to protect it" is full of crap. These same people have no idea how much a patent cost, and on top of that how much it costs to defend it in court. I'd have to sell a butt load of nylon to be able to afford to defend myself against some unscrupulous pig who wants to rip off my products.
I don't know who these Hogan people are, but I do know Frank DeSomma. Frank has spent a whole lot of money with his donations to matches around the country and I think he's a really nice guy who tries to make a good product.
Like I said, I don't know any of the details of this whole thing but if it comes out that Frank's been ripped of I hope he tears the ass out of these Hogan guys.
I don't have a fight in this either, but want to make a couple of observations.
I have a nylon company, lots of people know that. What a lot of people don't know is that we also do contract sewing for some other people who don't have their own sewing capabilities. Some of these products are pretty neat items that I wish I'd come up with myself.
All of the people I do contract sewing for have no contracts with me at all. We operate on a hand shake and personal integrity relationship.
I'll NEVER stick any of these other people in the ass by all of a sudden refusing to make the items for them and all of a sudden TAB GEAR starts offering these new products with my own label.
Could I legally refuse to make these products for these companies and start offering them with my own label? Yes I could, but I have to sleep with the decisions I make.
I'm getting very sick and tired seeing the phrases, "competition is good for the consumer" "Hey it's a free world" to justify screwing someone over.
Entrepreneurship is when you get up, work hard, and develop something on your own, not steal the ideas someone else has worked their ass off figuring out.
Direct competition is one thing, and it's what made this country great. Screwing some one over is an entirely different thing and people who do that ought to have their asses handed to them.
Just because something isn't patented doesn't mean it's Aok to just start making the same thing yourself. For people that spout off about "Hey he should have patented that gidget if he wanted to protect it" is full of crap. These same people have no idea how much a patent cost, and on top of that how much it costs to defend it in court. I'd have to sell a butt load of nylon to be able to afford to defend myself against some unscrupulous pig who wants to rip off my products.
I don't know who these Hogan people are, but I do know Frank DeSomma. Frank has spent a whole lot of money with his donations to matches around the country and I think he's a really nice guy who tries to make a good product.
Like I said, I don't know any of the details of this whole thing but if it comes out that Frank's been ripped of I hope he tears the ass out of these Hogan guys.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
I have no dog in this fight and don't know all the facts ,so I can't say for sure who did what to who . The <span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">rumor</span></span> around Phoenix is it is a non payment issue ,but that's just what I have heard from a number of folks in the gun biz in Phoenix. That video was not very flatering to say the least .I have shot several POF rifles and 2 Hogan rifles ,both were flawless and trouble free .If I had the spare cash I would not hesitate to buy either.
I have no dog in this fight and don't know all the facts ,so I can't say for sure who did what to who . The <span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">rumor</span></span> around Phoenix is it is a non payment issue ,but that's just what I have heard from a number of folks in the gun biz in Phoenix. That video was not very flatering to say the least .I have shot several POF rifles and 2 Hogan rifles ,both were flawless and trouble free .If I had the spare cash I would not hesitate to buy either.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">integrity doesn't always pay the bills</div></div>
It certianly does not, but is a far better tool to judge a man by than what does.
If I can only have but one of the two?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">integrity doesn't always pay the bills</div></div>
It certianly does not, but is a far better tool to judge a man by than what does.
If I can only have but one of the two?
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have a fight in this either, but want to make a couple of observations.
I have a nylon company, lots of people know that. What a lot of people don't know is that we also do contract sewing for some other people who don't have their own sewing capabilities. Some of these products are pretty neat items that I wish I'd come up with myself.
All of the people I do contract sewing for have no contracts with me at all. We operate on a hand shake and personal integrity relationship.
I'll NEVER stick any of these other people in the ass by all of a sudden refusing to make the items for them and all of a sudden TAB GEAR starts offering these new products with my own label.
Could I legally refuse to make these products for these companies and start offering them with my own label? Yes I could, but I have to sleep with the decisions I make.
I'm getting very sick and tired seeing the phrases, "competition is good for the consumer" "Hey it's a free world" to justify screwing someone over.
Entrepreneurship is when you get up, work hard, and develop something on your own, not steal the ideas someone else has worked their ass off figuring out.
Direct competition is one thing, and it's what made this country great. Screwing some one over is an entirely different thing and people who do that ought to have their asses handed to them.
Just because something isn't patented doesn't mean it's Aok to just start making the same thing yourself. For people that spout off about "Hey he should have patented that gidget if he wanted to protect it" is full of crap. These same people have no idea how much a patent cost, and on top of that how much it costs to defend it in court. I'd have to sell a butt load of nylon to be able to afford to defend myself against some unscrupulous pig who wants to rip off my products.
I don't know who these Hogan people are, but I do know Frank DeSomma. Frank has spent a whole lot of money with his donations to matches around the country and I think he's a really nice guy who tries to make a good product.
Like I said, I don't know any of the details of this whole thing but if it comes out that Frank's been ripped of I hope he tears the ass out of these Hogan guys.
</div></div>
AMEN Brother
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have a fight in this either, but want to make a couple of observations.
I have a nylon company, lots of people know that. What a lot of people don't know is that we also do contract sewing for some other people who don't have their own sewing capabilities. Some of these products are pretty neat items that I wish I'd come up with myself.
All of the people I do contract sewing for have no contracts with me at all. We operate on a hand shake and personal integrity relationship.
I'll NEVER stick any of these other people in the ass by all of a sudden refusing to make the items for them and all of a sudden TAB GEAR starts offering these new products with my own label.
Could I legally refuse to make these products for these companies and start offering them with my own label? Yes I could, but I have to sleep with the decisions I make.
I'm getting very sick and tired seeing the phrases, "competition is good for the consumer" "Hey it's a free world" to justify screwing someone over.
Entrepreneurship is when you get up, work hard, and develop something on your own, not steal the ideas someone else has worked their ass off figuring out.
Direct competition is one thing, and it's what made this country great. Screwing some one over is an entirely different thing and people who do that ought to have their asses handed to them.
Just because something isn't patented doesn't mean it's Aok to just start making the same thing yourself. For people that spout off about "Hey he should have patented that gidget if he wanted to protect it" is full of crap. These same people have no idea how much a patent cost, and on top of that how much it costs to defend it in court. I'd have to sell a butt load of nylon to be able to afford to defend myself against some unscrupulous pig who wants to rip off my products.
I don't know who these Hogan people are, but I do know Frank DeSomma. Frank has spent a whole lot of money with his donations to matches around the country and I think he's a really nice guy who tries to make a good product.
Like I said, I don't know any of the details of this whole thing but if it comes out that Frank's been ripped of I hope he tears the ass out of these Hogan guys.
</div></div>
AMEN Brother
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have a fight in this either, but want to make a couple of observations.
I have a nylon company, lots of people know that. What a lot of people don't know is that we also do contract sewing for some other people who don't have their own sewing capabilities. Some of these products are pretty neat items that I wish I'd come up with myself.
All of the people I do contract sewing for have no contracts with me at all. We operate on a hand shake and personal integrity relationship.
I'll NEVER stick any of these other people in the ass by all of a sudden refusing to make the items for them and all of a sudden TAB GEAR starts offering these new products with my own label.
Could I legally refuse to make these products for these companies and start offering them with my own label? Yes I could, but I have to sleep with the decisions I make.
I'm getting very sick and tired seeing the phrases, "competition is good for the consumer" "Hey it's a free world" to justify screwing someone over.
Entrepreneurship is when you get up, work hard, and develop something on your own, not steal the ideas someone else has worked their ass off figuring out.
Direct competition is one thing, and it's what made this country great. Screwing some one over is an entirely different thing and people who do that ought to have their asses handed to them.
Just because something isn't patented doesn't mean it's Aok to just start making the same thing yourself. For people that spout off about "Hey he should have patented that gidget if he wanted to protect it" is full of crap. These same people have no idea how much a patent cost, and on top of that how much it costs to defend it in court. I'd have to sell a butt load of nylon to be able to afford to defend myself against some unscrupulous pig who wants to rip off my products.
I don't know who these Hogan people are, but I do know Frank DeSomma. Frank has spent a whole lot of money with his donations to matches around the country and I think he's a really nice guy who tries to make a good product.
Like I said, I don't know any of the details of this whole thing but if it comes out that Frank's been ripped of I hope he tears the ass out of these Hogan guys.
</div></div>
AMEN Brother</div></div>
+1...VERY well stated, TBurkes!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tburkes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have a fight in this either, but want to make a couple of observations.
I have a nylon company, lots of people know that. What a lot of people don't know is that we also do contract sewing for some other people who don't have their own sewing capabilities. Some of these products are pretty neat items that I wish I'd come up with myself.
All of the people I do contract sewing for have no contracts with me at all. We operate on a hand shake and personal integrity relationship.
I'll NEVER stick any of these other people in the ass by all of a sudden refusing to make the items for them and all of a sudden TAB GEAR starts offering these new products with my own label.
Could I legally refuse to make these products for these companies and start offering them with my own label? Yes I could, but I have to sleep with the decisions I make.
I'm getting very sick and tired seeing the phrases, "competition is good for the consumer" "Hey it's a free world" to justify screwing someone over.
Entrepreneurship is when you get up, work hard, and develop something on your own, not steal the ideas someone else has worked their ass off figuring out.
Direct competition is one thing, and it's what made this country great. Screwing some one over is an entirely different thing and people who do that ought to have their asses handed to them.
Just because something isn't patented doesn't mean it's Aok to just start making the same thing yourself. For people that spout off about "Hey he should have patented that gidget if he wanted to protect it" is full of crap. These same people have no idea how much a patent cost, and on top of that how much it costs to defend it in court. I'd have to sell a butt load of nylon to be able to afford to defend myself against some unscrupulous pig who wants to rip off my products.
I don't know who these Hogan people are, but I do know Frank DeSomma. Frank has spent a whole lot of money with his donations to matches around the country and I think he's a really nice guy who tries to make a good product.
Like I said, I don't know any of the details of this whole thing but if it comes out that Frank's been ripped of I hope he tears the ass out of these Hogan guys.
</div></div>
AMEN Brother</div></div>
+1...VERY well stated, TBurkes!
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">integrity doesn't always pay the bills </div></div>
GSRswapandslow if you really believe that then I feel sorry for you sir...really.
I'm convinced that if you work hard and treat people like you want to be treated in your work or business that it comes back to you ten fold. That doesn't mean life is a walk in the park, and nothing bad ever happens, or you never get crapped on by the A-holes of life. It means when you look in the mirror you can tell the guy looking back at you that you're proud of what he's doing.
I'm also certain that karma's a bitch too. You throw integrity out the window for short term gain that'll come back to ten fold too. I've seen both instances happen too many times.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">integrity doesn't always pay the bills </div></div>
GSRswapandslow if you really believe that then I feel sorry for you sir...really.
I'm convinced that if you work hard and treat people like you want to be treated in your work or business that it comes back to you ten fold. That doesn't mean life is a walk in the park, and nothing bad ever happens, or you never get crapped on by the A-holes of life. It means when you look in the mirror you can tell the guy looking back at you that you're proud of what he's doing.
I'm also certain that karma's a bitch too. You throw integrity out the window for short term gain that'll come back to ten fold too. I've seen both instances happen too many times.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
The right thing is not always easy but it is always the right thing!!!
I have a small shop and work hard to ensure all our business is done with the hifhest level of intergrity even though it means we work harder to earn a little less.
The right thing is not always easy but it is always the right thing!!!
I have a small shop and work hard to ensure all our business is done with the hifhest level of intergrity even though it means we work harder to earn a little less.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">integrity doesn't always pay the bills </div></div>
I wouldn't even think this more less be so fuckin stupid as to state it on a public forum!!!! Don't take a Michael Angelo to paint a picture of your 'integrity' . Sure hope my alzheimers isn't at play if you ever sell something or need something!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">integrity doesn't always pay the bills </div></div>
I wouldn't even think this more less be so fuckin stupid as to state it on a public forum!!!! Don't take a Michael Angelo to paint a picture of your 'integrity' . Sure hope my alzheimers isn't at play if you ever sell something or need something!!!
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">integrity doesn't always pay the bills </div></div>
I wouldn't even think this more less be so fuckin stupid as to state it on a public forum!!!! Don't take a Michael Angelo to paint a picture of your 'integrity' . Sure hope my alzheimers isn't at play if you ever sell something or need something!!! </div></div>
Why the "so fuckin stupid" part? I can't be certain of what you are saying given your grammar, but it appears that you are questioning the quoted party's integrity? Unless you know a lot more about the situation than it appears anyone on this forum yet does, that would seem to be a little premature. Why not tone back the "you are so stupid" comments until someone can definitively say what is happening?
This is just speculation, I freely admit that I am even less privy to the facts than some of you; however is this a possibility? POF has contracted with Hogan to produce parts for their rifle, along with a number of other companies, it appears. Perhaps POF, finding another machine shop to be cheaper, cancels their orders, and refuses to pay off the contract? Indeed Hogan could not "pay the bills". Pink slips and worse would follow. So perhaps Hogan decides that they could, and in fact have, produced whole rifle; why not keep their employees employed and do so? Patent infringement would be one problem, and if they have done this I suspect the courts will intervene eventually. However, in the above hypothetical example I would not consider Hogan ethically at fault.
I am not saying that POF reneged on their contract, nor am I saying that I know Hogan isn't a piece of crap. What I am saying is that it might be better to wait until there are facts before starting the name calling.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">integrity doesn't always pay the bills </div></div>
I wouldn't even think this more less be so fuckin stupid as to state it on a public forum!!!! Don't take a Michael Angelo to paint a picture of your 'integrity' . Sure hope my alzheimers isn't at play if you ever sell something or need something!!! </div></div>
Why the "so fuckin stupid" part? I can't be certain of what you are saying given your grammar, but it appears that you are questioning the quoted party's integrity? Unless you know a lot more about the situation than it appears anyone on this forum yet does, that would seem to be a little premature. Why not tone back the "you are so stupid" comments until someone can definitively say what is happening?
This is just speculation, I freely admit that I am even less privy to the facts than some of you; however is this a possibility? POF has contracted with Hogan to produce parts for their rifle, along with a number of other companies, it appears. Perhaps POF, finding another machine shop to be cheaper, cancels their orders, and refuses to pay off the contract? Indeed Hogan could not "pay the bills". Pink slips and worse would follow. So perhaps Hogan decides that they could, and in fact have, produced whole rifle; why not keep their employees employed and do so? Patent infringement would be one problem, and if they have done this I suspect the courts will intervene eventually. However, in the above hypothetical example I would not consider Hogan ethically at fault.
I am not saying that POF reneged on their contract, nor am I saying that I know Hogan isn't a piece of crap. What I am saying is that it might be better to wait until there are facts before starting the name calling.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">integrity doesn't always pay the bills </div></div>
I wouldn't even think this more less be so fuckin stupid as to state it on a public forum!!!! Don't take a Michael Angelo to paint a picture of your 'integrity' . Sure hope my alzheimers isn't at play if you ever sell something or need something!!! </div></div>
Why the "so fuckin stupid" part? I can't be certain of what you are saying given your grammar, but it appears that you are questioning the quoted party's integrity? Unless you know a lot more about the situation than it appears anyone on this forum yet does, that would seem to be a little premature. Why not tone back the "you are so stupid" comments until someone can definitively say what is happening?
</div></div>
Ok, see if I can make it a bit easier for ya. My quote and statement had absolutely NOTHING to do with/about POF or Hogan!!!!!! I was quoteing the poster and his putting money/finances over and above integrity which to me says alot about a person. I don't have much financially anymore but damn sure value my honor, integrity and word far and above ANY monetary amount whether it is a buck or a million of them. Ask any member here or check my feedback on GB etc.
So....I did not directly insinuate anything to anyone, I said "I wouldn't even think that(integrity doesn't always pay the bills) more less be so fucking stupid as to post it on a public forum"(meaning I would be letting anyone reading it to assume my priority was money above all else)"!!!!!
Is that clear????? IF you state on a forum such as this that integrity is second to money how would anyone have the trust to mail you money for something you posted for sale etc??? I know I am alot different than many in this world nowdays but be damned if I will go to my grave oweing anyone a dime if I can help it!
Don't know how I can make it any easier to figure out what I stated than this.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">integrity doesn't always pay the bills </div></div>
I wouldn't even think this more less be so fuckin stupid as to state it on a public forum!!!! Don't take a Michael Angelo to paint a picture of your 'integrity' . Sure hope my alzheimers isn't at play if you ever sell something or need something!!! </div></div>
Why the "so fuckin stupid" part? I can't be certain of what you are saying given your grammar, but it appears that you are questioning the quoted party's integrity? Unless you know a lot more about the situation than it appears anyone on this forum yet does, that would seem to be a little premature. Why not tone back the "you are so stupid" comments until someone can definitively say what is happening?
</div></div>
Ok, see if I can make it a bit easier for ya. My quote and statement had absolutely NOTHING to do with/about POF or Hogan!!!!!! I was quoteing the poster and his putting money/finances over and above integrity which to me says alot about a person. I don't have much financially anymore but damn sure value my honor, integrity and word far and above ANY monetary amount whether it is a buck or a million of them. Ask any member here or check my feedback on GB etc.
So....I did not directly insinuate anything to anyone, I said "I wouldn't even think that(integrity doesn't always pay the bills) more less be so fucking stupid as to post it on a public forum"(meaning I would be letting anyone reading it to assume my priority was money above all else)"!!!!!
Is that clear????? IF you state on a forum such as this that integrity is second to money how would anyone have the trust to mail you money for something you posted for sale etc??? I know I am alot different than many in this world nowdays but be damned if I will go to my grave oweing anyone a dime if I can help it!
Don't know how I can make it any easier to figure out what I stated than this.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
This makes me laugh The AR15 and AR10 Has ben around LONG before anybody in this pissing contest. They all ripped of Stoner and Colt they paint the friggin shit a different color and make like its a new idea and cry when sombody else treats them like they treat others before them. I really love when Guys take "sides" If sombody did not pay sombody they need to step up and do so . But this "No compete"crap is bullshit. Well made products,great customer service makes a company stay afloat. Not legal B.S. I could care less if they both go under. Another will take their place and might be better and cheaper. Welcom to free market. Keep up or fall behind.
This makes me laugh The AR15 and AR10 Has ben around LONG before anybody in this pissing contest. They all ripped of Stoner and Colt they paint the friggin shit a different color and make like its a new idea and cry when sombody else treats them like they treat others before them. I really love when Guys take "sides" If sombody did not pay sombody they need to step up and do so . But this "No compete"crap is bullshit. Well made products,great customer service makes a company stay afloat. Not legal B.S. I could care less if they both go under. Another will take their place and might be better and cheaper. Welcom to free market. Keep up or fall behind.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This makes me laugh The AR15 and AR10 Has ben around LONG before anybody in this pissing contest. They all ripped of Stoner and Colt they paint the friggin shit a different color and make like its a new idea and cry when sombody else treats them like they treat others before them. I really love when Guys take "sides" If sombody did not pay sombody they need to step up and do so . But this "No compete"crap is bullshit. Well made products,great customer service makes a company stay afloat. Not legal B.S. I could care less if they both go under. Another will take their place and might be better and cheaper. Welcom to free market. Keep up or fall behind. </div></div>
So what you're saying is that no one should make ARs except Colt/Stoner? So I guess that no one should make cars except Ford right?
Hogan isn't just making another version of an AR they are copying POFs patented design to a T and trying to pass it off as their own. This isn't an argument of "free market" ethics this is just being an ass hole.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This makes me laugh The AR15 and AR10 Has ben around LONG before anybody in this pissing contest. They all ripped of Stoner and Colt they paint the friggin shit a different color and make like its a new idea and cry when sombody else treats them like they treat others before them. I really love when Guys take "sides" If sombody did not pay sombody they need to step up and do so . But this "No compete"crap is bullshit. Well made products,great customer service makes a company stay afloat. Not legal B.S. I could care less if they both go under. Another will take their place and might be better and cheaper. Welcom to free market. Keep up or fall behind. </div></div>
So what you're saying is that no one should make ARs except Colt/Stoner? So I guess that no one should make cars except Ford right?
Hogan isn't just making another version of an AR they are copying POFs patented design to a T and trying to pass it off as their own. This isn't an argument of "free market" ethics this is just being an ass hole.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
Why Ford ? Dimeler Benz was first .Haven't we suffered enough under Obama ? To be forced to drive Fords would be the final insult. You guys need to chill out on this and wait to see how it is resolved . <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This makes me laugh The AR15 and AR10 Has ben around LONG before anybody in this pissing contest. They all ripped of Stoner and Colt they paint the friggin shit a different color and make like its a new idea and cry when sombody else treats them like they treat others before them. I really love when Guys take "sides" If sombody did not pay sombody they need to step up and do so . But this "No compete"crap is bullshit. Well made products,great customer service makes a company stay afloat. Not legal B.S. I could care less if they both go under. Another will take their place and might be better and cheaper. Welcom to free market. Keep up or fall behind. </div></div>
So what you're saying is that no one should make ARs except Colt/Stoner? So I guess that no one should make cars except Ford right?
Hogan isn't just making another version of an AR they are copying POFs patented design to a T and trying to pass it off as their own. This isn't an argument of "free market" ethics this is just being an ass hole.
</div></div>
Why Ford ? Dimeler Benz was first .Haven't we suffered enough under Obama ? To be forced to drive Fords would be the final insult. You guys need to chill out on this and wait to see how it is resolved . <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This makes me laugh The AR15 and AR10 Has ben around LONG before anybody in this pissing contest. They all ripped of Stoner and Colt they paint the friggin shit a different color and make like its a new idea and cry when sombody else treats them like they treat others before them. I really love when Guys take "sides" If sombody did not pay sombody they need to step up and do so . But this "No compete"crap is bullshit. Well made products,great customer service makes a company stay afloat. Not legal B.S. I could care less if they both go under. Another will take their place and might be better and cheaper. Welcom to free market. Keep up or fall behind. </div></div>
So what you're saying is that no one should make ARs except Colt/Stoner? So I guess that no one should make cars except Ford right?
Hogan isn't just making another version of an AR they are copying POFs patented design to a T and trying to pass it off as their own. This isn't an argument of "free market" ethics this is just being an ass hole.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This makes me laugh The AR15 and AR10 Has ben around LONG before anybody in this pissing contest. They all ripped of Stoner and Colt they paint the friggin shit a different color and make like its a new idea and cry when sombody else treats them like they treat others before them. I really love when Guys take "sides" If sombody did not pay sombody they need to step up and do so . But this "No compete"crap is bullshit. Well made products,great customer service makes a company stay afloat. Not legal B.S. I could care less if they both go under. Another will take their place and might be better and cheaper. Welcom to free market. Keep up or fall behind. </div></div>
So what you're saying is that no one should make ARs except Colt/Stoner? So I guess that no one should make cars except Ford right?
[color:#000099[color:#000066]On the contrary the poster is saying that everyone has a right to make cars, not just Ford (I assume you meant M/B and just misspoke).[/co[/color]lor]
Hogan isn't just making another version of an AR they are copying POFs patented design to a T and trying to pass it off as their own. This isn't an argument of "free market" ethics this is just being an ass hole.
<span style="color: #000066">[color:#000099]If this is correct then the courts are where that should and will be decided. Patent infringement is a serious charge, fortunately the laws are fairly strict.</span>[/color]
</div></div>
<span style="color: #000099">That is for you to decide as you have the best knowledge of your intentions.</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This makes me laugh The AR15 and AR10 Has ben around LONG before anybody in this pissing contest. They all ripped of Stoner and Colt they paint the friggin shit a different color and make like its a new idea and cry when sombody else treats them like they treat others before them. I really love when Guys take "sides" If sombody did not pay sombody they need to step up and do so . But this "No compete"crap is bullshit. Well made products,great customer service makes a company stay afloat. Not legal B.S. I could care less if they both go under. Another will take their place and might be better and cheaper. Welcom to free market. Keep up or fall behind. </div></div>
So what you're saying is that no one should make ARs except Colt/Stoner? So I guess that no one should make cars except Ford right?
[color:#000099[color:#000066]On the contrary the poster is saying that everyone has a right to make cars, not just Ford (I assume you meant M/B and just misspoke).[/co[/color]lor]
Hogan isn't just making another version of an AR they are copying POFs patented design to a T and trying to pass it off as their own. This isn't an argument of "free market" ethics this is just being an ass hole.
<span style="color: #000066">[color:#000099]If this is correct then the courts are where that should and will be decided. Patent infringement is a serious charge, fortunately the laws are fairly strict.</span>[/color]
<span style="color: #000099">That is for you to decide as you have the best knowledge of your intentions.</span>
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This makes me laugh The AR15 and AR10 Has ben around LONG before anybody in this pissing contest. They all ripped of Stoner and Colt they paint the friggin shit a different color and make like its a new idea and cry when sombody else treats them like they treat others before them. I really love when Guys take "sides" If sombody did not pay sombody they need to step up and do so . But this "No compete"crap is bullshit. Well made products,great customer service makes a company stay afloat. Not legal B.S. I could care less if they both go under. Another will take their place and might be better and cheaper. Welcom to free market. Keep up or fall behind. </div></div>
So what you're saying is that no one should make ARs except Colt/Stoner? So I guess that no one should make cars except Ford right?
[color:#000099[color:#000066]On the contrary the poster is saying that everyone has a right to make cars, not just Ford (I assume you meant M/B and just misspoke).[/co[/color]lor]
Hogan isn't just making another version of an AR they are copying POFs patented design to a T and trying to pass it off as their own. This isn't an argument of "free market" ethics this is just being an ass hole.
<span style="color: #000066">[color:#000099]If this is correct then the courts are where that should and will be decided. Patent infringement is a serious charge, fortunately the laws are fairly strict.</span>[/color]
</div></div>
<span style="color: #000099">That is for you to decide as you have the best knowledge of your intentions.</span> </div></div>
I was talking about Scot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This makes me laugh The AR15 and AR10 Has ben around LONG before anybody in this pissing contest. They all ripped of Stoner and Colt they paint the friggin shit a different color and make like its a new idea and cry when sombody else treats them like they treat others before them. I really love when Guys take "sides" If sombody did not pay sombody they need to step up and do so . But this "No compete"crap is bullshit. Well made products,great customer service makes a company stay afloat. Not legal B.S. I could care less if they both go under. Another will take their place and might be better and cheaper. Welcom to free market. Keep up or fall behind. </div></div>
So what you're saying is that no one should make ARs except Colt/Stoner? So I guess that no one should make cars except Ford right?
[color:#000099[color:#000066]On the contrary the poster is saying that everyone has a right to make cars, not just Ford (I assume you meant M/B and just misspoke).[/co[/color]lor]
Hogan isn't just making another version of an AR they are copying POFs patented design to a T and trying to pass it off as their own. This isn't an argument of "free market" ethics this is just being an ass hole.
<span style="color: #000066">[color:#000099]If this is correct then the courts are where that should and will be decided. Patent infringement is a serious charge, fortunately the laws are fairly strict.</span>[/color]
<span style="color: #000099">That is for you to decide as you have the best knowledge of your intentions.</span> </div></div>
I was talking about Scot.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
No!! what I am saying is the all people that build them have that right (as long as it is 20 percent different as per patent law) If POF has a better weapon buy it if Hogan has a better weapon buy that, As far as being stupid .I would love to see how these debates would go if they were face to face instead of hiding behind a keyboard cyber tough guys with no dog in the hunt ALWAYS call others stupid because they only see their side.These same people buy rip off bargin brand shit all day long when it suits them.Double standard B.S what else would you expect from people today
No!! what I am saying is the all people that build them have that right (as long as it is 20 percent different as per patent law) If POF has a better weapon buy it if Hogan has a better weapon buy that, As far as being stupid .I would love to see how these debates would go if they were face to face instead of hiding behind a keyboard cyber tough guys with no dog in the hunt ALWAYS call others stupid because they only see their side.These same people buy rip off bargin brand shit all day long when it suits them.Double standard B.S what else would you expect from people today
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No!! what I am saying is the all people that build them have that right (as long as it is 20 percent different as per patent law) If POF has a better weapon buy it if Hogan has a better weapon buy that, As far as being stupid .I would love to see how these debates would go if they were face to face instead of hiding behind a keyboard cyber tough guys with no dog in the hunt ALWAYS call others stupid because they only see their side.These same people buy rip off bargin brand shit all day long when it suits them.Double standard B.S what else would you expect from people today </div></div>
Obviously you know nothing of the products or companies being discussed. I'm going to be the bigger man and walk away from this conversation and let you continue to attempt troll and ramble until you are satisfied.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No!! what I am saying is the all people that build them have that right (as long as it is 20 percent different as per patent law) If POF has a better weapon buy it if Hogan has a better weapon buy that, As far as being stupid .I would love to see how these debates would go if they were face to face instead of hiding behind a keyboard cyber tough guys with no dog in the hunt ALWAYS call others stupid because they only see their side.These same people buy rip off bargin brand shit all day long when it suits them.Double standard B.S what else would you expect from people today </div></div>
Obviously you know nothing of the products or companies being discussed. I'm going to be the bigger man and walk away from this conversation and let you continue to attempt troll and ramble until you are satisfied.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
Obviously you know everything about everything and anybody else is stupid, Be the bigger man and walk away another way of saying you have nothing worth saying. The funny thing is if Hogan is copying POF "EXACTLY" they would be equal. As per POF they are not, At that point the customer chooses.Maybe if you have someone read the posts to you SLOWLY you will understand
Obviously you know everything about everything and anybody else is stupid, Be the bigger man and walk away another way of saying you have nothing worth saying. The funny thing is if Hogan is copying POF "EXACTLY" they would be equal. As per POF they are not, At that point the customer chooses.Maybe if you have someone read the posts to you SLOWLY you will understand
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
i like POF's....they're great rifles.
I like hogans too.....just not the rifles, the intake manifolds.
but hogan isn't copying POF.....obviously. if they were, they'd have better quality (lol)
i like POF's....they're great rifles.
I like hogans too.....just not the rifles, the intake manifolds.
but hogan isn't copying POF.....obviously. if they were, they'd have better quality (lol)
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
Interesting analogy. But the contracts and laws will decide this. No ethics or sewing machines involved.
The scenario you describe is carried out thousands of times a year. Middle men have to fight for their position. Brick and mortar guns stores can tell you all about this.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So TW,
By your example, I have a large sewing company that makes products for others, if TAB or TIS came to me to make their slings in larger quantities, and I turn around and decide, <span style="font-style: italic">"well shoot, these things sell great, why not cut out TAB or TIS and sell it myself"</span> that is free market ?
Now one can argue that if TAB or TIS didn't protect themselves, as you are, then all is fair in Free Market War, are we reading this correctly ?
The effort is all POF, the fact Hogan was contracted to make their product, doesn't mean -- have at it, or does it ? That would be the question, and I think the reason you see the distaste being put out there. Regardless of the reason for the falling out, if personalities clash, should a contracting company be allowed to walk out the door and build it themselves ? </div></div>
Interesting analogy. But the contracts and laws will decide this. No ethics or sewing machines involved.
The scenario you describe is carried out thousands of times a year. Middle men have to fight for their position. Brick and mortar guns stores can tell you all about this.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So TW,
By your example, I have a large sewing company that makes products for others, if TAB or TIS came to me to make their slings in larger quantities, and I turn around and decide, <span style="font-style: italic">"well shoot, these things sell great, why not cut out TAB or TIS and sell it myself"</span> that is free market ?
Now one can argue that if TAB or TIS didn't protect themselves, as you are, then all is fair in Free Market War, are we reading this correctly ?
The effort is all POF, the fact Hogan was contracted to make their product, doesn't mean -- have at it, or does it ? That would be the question, and I think the reason you see the distaste being put out there. Regardless of the reason for the falling out, if personalities clash, should a contracting company be allowed to walk out the door and build it themselves ? </div></div>
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting analogy. But the contracts and laws will decide this. No ethics or sewing machines involved.
The scenario you describe is carried out thousands of times a year. Middle men have to fight for their position. Brick and mortar guns stores can tell you all about this.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So TW,
By your example, I have a large sewing company that makes products for others, if TAB or TIS came to me to make their slings in larger quantities, and I turn around and decide, <span style="font-style: italic">"well shoot, these things sell great, why not cut out TAB or TIS and sell it myself"</span> that is free market ?
Now one can argue that if TAB or TIS didn't protect themselves, as you are, then all is fair in Free Market War, are we reading this correctly ?
The effort is all POF, the fact Hogan was contracted to make their product, doesn't mean -- have at it, or does it ? That would be the question, and I think the reason you see the distaste being put out there. Regardless of the reason for the falling out, if personalities clash, should a contracting company be allowed to walk out the door and build it themselves ? </div></div></div></div>
Which is why it is my understanding there will be a law suit involved... how that plays out is up to the courts.
But the ethics of it are still up to the end user on who they support and why.
The point and the analogy was based on a suggestion by a poster, not necessarily the facts of the case.
Nobody replying is privy to the contracts so that is all speculation. Heck there may not even be a contract. So the debate maybe a simple ethics discussion.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting analogy. But the contracts and laws will decide this. No ethics or sewing machines involved.
The scenario you describe is carried out thousands of times a year. Middle men have to fight for their position. Brick and mortar guns stores can tell you all about this.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So TW,
By your example, I have a large sewing company that makes products for others, if TAB or TIS came to me to make their slings in larger quantities, and I turn around and decide, <span style="font-style: italic">"well shoot, these things sell great, why not cut out TAB or TIS and sell it myself"</span> that is free market ?
Now one can argue that if TAB or TIS didn't protect themselves, as you are, then all is fair in Free Market War, are we reading this correctly ?
The effort is all POF, the fact Hogan was contracted to make their product, doesn't mean -- have at it, or does it ? That would be the question, and I think the reason you see the distaste being put out there. Regardless of the reason for the falling out, if personalities clash, should a contracting company be allowed to walk out the door and build it themselves ? </div></div></div></div>
Which is why it is my understanding there will be a law suit involved... how that plays out is up to the courts.
But the ethics of it are still up to the end user on who they support and why.
The point and the analogy was based on a suggestion by a poster, not necessarily the facts of the case.
Nobody replying is privy to the contracts so that is all speculation. Heck there may not even be a contract. So the debate maybe a simple ethics discussion.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
I can't conclude on the ethics question with no knowledge of the agreement they were operating under, and the circumstances involved.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Which is why it is my understanding there will be a law suit involved... how that plays out is up to the courts.
But the ethics of it are still up to the end user on who they support and why.
The point and the analogy was based on a suggestion by a poster, not necessarily the facts of the case.
Nobody replying is privy to the contracts so that is all speculation. Heck there may not even be a contract. So the debate maybe a simple ethics discussion. </div></div>
I can't conclude on the ethics question with no knowledge of the agreement they were operating under, and the circumstances involved.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Which is why it is my understanding there will be a law suit involved... how that plays out is up to the courts.
But the ethics of it are still up to the end user on who they support and why.
The point and the analogy was based on a suggestion by a poster, not necessarily the facts of the case.
Nobody replying is privy to the contracts so that is all speculation. Heck there may not even be a contract. So the debate maybe a simple ethics discussion. </div></div>
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The funny thing is if Hogan is copying POF "EXACTLY" they would be equal. As per POF they are not, At that point the customer chooses.</div></div>
Can you post links to where POF discusses the differences? I would be curious to know the differences between the two.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The funny thing is if Hogan is copying POF "EXACTLY" they would be equal. As per POF they are not, At that point the customer chooses.</div></div>
Can you post links to where POF discusses the differences? I would be curious to know the differences between the two.
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN
Here are POFs specs.
http://www.pof-usa.com/p308/P308-20-MRR-H.htm
Here are hogan specs.
http://www.hoganguns.com/h-308/hr308SA-20.html
They are not only the same. They are the same to the letter.
Here are POFs specs.
http://www.pof-usa.com/p308/P308-20-MRR-H.htm
Here are hogan specs.
http://www.hoganguns.com/h-308/hr308SA-20.html
They are not only the same. They are the same to the letter.
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