Rifle Scopes noob question about mil/mil vs moa/moa

[damoncali]

Graham,

I am pretty new to the hide, but I have noticed that I can always count on you to show up with some pwnage. The humor is appreciated by more than just myself I'm sure.

Like I said earlier to the OP, if you have to ask this question, you're better off going mil/mil. Would you guys agree, that mil/mil is the most intuitive system? I say this because, it involves no memorization or calculation.

I mean absolutely no offense or ill will towards the MOA supporters. This is an issue of tomato vs. tomaaaaato. I know if I was learning everything over again, though, I'd have a much better time with mil/mil. And now here is my .02.

Graham's quality policing aside, I do not agree that mils are in any way superior (or that MOA are). Both units are just units. They are functionally identical and if you have a modern graduated reticle, there is no reason to care which you use. The differences that matter (and by matter I mean barely) are in scope construction that have nothing whatsoever to do with the unit of angular measurement chosen. There is nothing stopping someone from making a scope with 1/16 Mrad turrets or .1 MOA turrets. I dislike it when people refer to units as "systems" because it makes it seem more complicated than it is. Nobody says "like to use yards because the system is more intuitive". It's the same thing here. There is no system. Just angles.

 

[ahhshoot]

Toooommmmmmmaaaaaaaattttttttttttttoooooooooooooo

 

[ahhshoot]

Graham's quality policing aside, I do not agree that mils are in any way superior (or that MOA are). Both units are just units. They are functionally identical and if you have a modern graduated reticle, there is no reason to care which you use. The differences that matter (and by matter I mean barely) are in scope construction that have nothing whatsoever to do with the unit of angular measurement chosen. There is nothing stopping someone from making a scope with 1/16 Mrad turrets or .1 MOA turrets. I dislike it when people refer to units as "systems" because it makes it seem more complicated than it is. Nobody says "like to use yards because the system is more intuitive". It's the same thing here. There is no system. Just angles.

I knew someone would get pissed at this, haha. You are 100% correct. I just believe our brains adapt to a measurement revolving around 10's much more intuitively than anything else. I'm just speaking from a purely practical standpoint. I didn't read the OP's post correctly, I thought he was comparing this to a MIl/MOA scope. Which some folks like as well. But regardless of what you want to call it, if the turrets match the reticle, you can call them beers for all I care. I need to adjust for 1.5 beers up and 1.5 beers left... boom. You've got your beers.

I'm going to call them beers from now on, you all can go f yourselves. I'm using a beer/beer scope.

 

[kctgb]

I knew someone would get pissed at this, haha. You are 100% correct. I just believe our brains adapt to a measurement revolving around 10's much more intuitively than anything else. I'm just speaking from a purely practical standpoint. I didn't read the OP's post correctly, I thought he was comparing this to a MIl/MOA scope. Which some folks like as well. But regardless of what you want to call it, if the turrets match the reticle, you can call them beers for all I care. I need to adjust for 1.5 beers up and 1.5 beers left... boom. You've got your beer
I'm going to call them beers from now on, you all can go f yourselves. I'm using a beer/beer scope.

Very funny but I like your analogy. I did get a good laugh tho.

 

[ahhshoot]

Very funny but I like your analogy. I did get a good laugh tho.

Thank you. I only wish that some people would understand that the absolute most precise measurement of angle is 1/12 beer or one ounce. Unless you are going by the pint system. But that's a whole 'nuther story.

 

[kctgb]

Thank you. I only wish that some people would understand that the absolute most precise measurement of angle is 1/12 beer or one ounce. Unless you are going by the pint system. But that's a whole 'nuther story.

What about the metric system and liters !

LOL !

 

[damoncali]

I knew someone would get pissed at this, haha. You are 100% correct. I just believe our brains adapt to a measurement revolving around 10's much more intuitively than anything else. I'm just speaking from a purely practical standpoint. I didn't read the OP's post correctly, I thought he was comparing this to a MIl/MOA scope. Which some folks like as well. But regardless of what you want to call it, if the turrets match the reticle, you can call them beers for all I care. I need to adjust for 1.5 beers up and 1.5 beers left... boom. You've got your beers.

I'm going to call them beers from now on, you all can go f yourselves. I'm using a beer/beer scope.

Do not forget to switch your ballistics app to beers too or you'll be all kinds of jacked up.

 

[Accusource8541]

I would respectfully disagree with what others have said here. Mills are much more capable of a higher accuracy potential than MOA adjustments. MOA adjustments will adjust at 1/4 or 1/2 inch measurements in one moa, whereas mills are divides into 10 adjustments in one mill so it's a more precise adjustment. Also, when doing the math for range estimation the mill is based on tens and thousands so the maths is much easier than the math in fractions for a MOA system.

Yes, both will work but if you use both systems at great length you will see the advantages of the mil system. Almost every military sniper that I know that was trained on the MOA system will say the Mil system is much better, especially at extreme range. For me the mil system is the only to go.

Just my two cents from my experience. Good luck and good shooting.

This is wrong.... MIL turret adjustments are more coarse than 1/4 MOA turret adjustments. Its just basic math...

To the OP, It really doesn't matter whether you use MOA or MIL. I prefer to match the reticle and the turrets because I feel that it is quicker and easier that way. I prefer MILs because I like to deal with smaller numbers and I am familiar with MIL based reticles. Pick either and learn it well.

 

[Rthur]

A good analogy would be do you like to piss using your left hand or right. After using the one of your choice it becomes second nature after some practice.


R

 

[RobertB]

I want you to use MOA so when you get to need 30 I can say "come up one half hour"

OP, if yuo happen to have a coin, flip it. That will be your easy answer and you can get to the real stuff and leave everyone else arguing about it. I'll take either system out of the safe and do just as god as if I took the other one.

 

[weeds]

After my "extensive" training/knowledge acquired (meaning shooting at established ranges and messing around with UKD in the woods with no professional instruction whatsoever) I'd have to say go with what you know. As long as the reticle matches the turrets, an adjustment is just an adjustment, and as stated before 12345 units is 12345 units. But I was raised on inches/yards, so for ranging - a 3" target at 300 yards looks like 1" in my scope, the same as a 1" target as 100 yards. If I'm aiming a pop bottle and I don't know what distance it's at, I can use the fact that I know it's about 8" tall, put my crosshair on it, and know in "100's of yards" what that 8" translates to. If it takes up 8 MOA (or IPHY), it's about 100 yards, 2 MOA/IPHY it's about 400 yards. After that, I use my dope, take the shot, and if I miss my adjustments are in units (or clicks), not inches.

That said, I don't own any scopes in MIL/MIL and my opinion may change after I get one and learn to use it. And MOA/IPHY is always linearly smaller than MILs, 1/4 MOA/IPHY is always linearly smaller than .1 MIL. Can we please stop arguing math and just answer the OP?

 

[Kiwigrunt]

A good analogy would be do you like to piss using your left hand or right. After using the one of your choice it becomes second nature after some practice.


R

I'm right handed but I 'piss' with my left hand, so it feels as if someone else is doing it. I tried that concept out at work, swinging my hammer with my left hand. Didn't work though. It still felt like I was doing the work.