Not happy with Kestrel!!!!!

[paulL01]

I totally agree with vtseal.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

There are so many here, who really don't know what they're talking about and haven't actually read the thread in its entirety. Or it could be that reading comprehension has dropped to such a low level that ignorance of the obvious is accepted as the 'new cool'.

C'mon guys, catch up, and then keep up with the program. Please, it's for the children. God knows, some of ya'll have missed out.

Now, for those who actually are keeping up with this thread, and its valid contents, there's some encouraging news. The CEO of Kestrel herself, has chimed in on this issue. In another thread in S-4, so be sure to check it out. And please guys, read it all. There are no "Cliff notes" yet, as I can't find my crayons.

 

[22lr southpaw]

Sean

I updated my post to clarify my statement about foreseeable outcomes in response to yours.

I still stand my reply.

The OP has to decide is the deal offered good enough or does he want spend his money somewhere else.

Sent from my SPH-M830 using Tapatalk 2

 

[K_4c]

Personally, I believe they should still replace your kestrel. Now after they've stated the known discrepancy and included the corrective actions in the manual, well it would then be a different story as it is their disclaimer.

best of luck bud.

 

[Flying Goose]

Go read her reply
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=179645

I would say for a business that supports what we do as well as many other job fields/hobbies that this is a fair and reasonable response. I don't fully agree with them not replacing the unit however lithium batteries have been out for over 20 years here in the states (introduced 1991) and I feel that it has become somewhat common knowledge that they are better for your more expensive and stored devices. Not quite in the league of warning coffee is hot but its getting there. Good on Kestral and I'll continue to use their products!

 

[K_4c]

I've had a Nikon range finder just for bow hunting for several years... never took the battery out of it and never had an issue. My 1600b chews threw batteries (I use it a lot), so I replace it every 4-6 months... no issues there either. Seems like this is a common problem with kestrels. It's a great product, but for $600, perhaps a little more R&D should be considered.

I switched my kestrels batteries to lithium right when I bought it, mainly for the extended battery life.

perhaps a mini sd card that would allow the user to load his/her data on a computer and save it... that would be a sweet upgrade.

 

[Monmouth]

Update!!!!!!

Just thought I'd let you know what happened.

Kestrel said they would now take 55% off retail value for a new one. So I would have to pay $280

What do you guys think?

They are kidding with you, right? I read your thread and the Kestrel thread about how they will handle "future" protocol and they are now going to do you a favor by offering a unit half off retail? Kestrel has used this forum for quality control and decreases their future exposure to additional problems thus equating to more on the bottom line going forward. Does the majority of corporate profits come elsewhere, you bet, but they know there are plenty of present and future buyers from or related to this online community and that other thread is intended to alleviate future consumer angst.

They spun the issue to a “we are here and listen to the hide”. Please, being there would result in a “thank you to the community known as snipershide for helping us to improve. As part of our appreciation, we gladly will replace all units damaged due to the batteries we supplied as part of your original purchase.” Kestrel treated you and perhaps others like schmucks. Those of you who have purchased or intend to do so, understand how the company will treat you in the event you discover a flaw in their product.

Perhaps Kestrel controls such a large portion of the market share thus allowing them to take such a position of insensitivity towards the individual consumer.

My recommendation on Kestrel: PASS.

 

[DIBBS]

I've only had my Kestrel 4500 for a short time, and haven't had any problems thankfully. I will be buying some lithium batteries very soon, based on the above recommendations. Another thought is, would it be possible to redesign the unit so that the internals circuit boards etal., are better protected from a leaky battery, ie, more of a sealed/closed battery compartment? Just a thought, as well as big bold letters on the packaging

Manufacturer recommends the use of lithium batteries only.

 

[bobtodrick]

If the inexpensive pouch came with the Kestrel and was known to cause issues, would your opinion change? Read the thread before bashing the OP.

Nope not really.
I can't believe anyone here has not heard at some point in their life that you should take batteries out of electronic devices if you are not using them for extended periods because they can leak.
It's like a 40 year old saying he wants to sue the tobacco company for his cancer...people have been telling them for his entire lifetime that smoking can kill him.
Maybe it's because being in the photo industry I've seen my share of battery leakage...but any device of mine that is going to sit for more than a couple of weeks do so sans batteries.

 

[Cobracutter]

Update!!!!!!

Just thought I'd let you know what happened.

Kestrel said they would now take 55% off retail value for a new one. So I would have to pay $280

What do you guys think?

I was in the market for one of these. The customer service, ignoring of known issues, and piss poor effort to resolve the issue has really turned the company off.

The customer service alone is appaling. If they are supplying shitty quality batteries then it's their fault If the device draws down the batts to the point that they corode, the faults on them. If they know its an issue and fail to make the users and owners aware BEFORE they buy or use the product, its their fault.

The fact they are offering a shitty trade in (that they will refub and sell at a profit) or 50% off a new one, doesnt change the fact you just spent $600 for a product that failed.

A smart company would find a resolution to this problem. Either a redesign to adress/mitigate the issue, or supply them with the best batteries they can. A dumb company would rather save $5 on a $600 item than lose sales.

Just beacuse it is an idustry standard , does not mean that it is without fault. ARMS used to be the ind stnd for mounts. They were always shit. YMMV

 

[Cobracutter]

Again I'm still waiting for that email SIR. I have already contacted the CEO and I'll post her response when it arrives.

Everybody realizes that Kestrels are used everyday in all of the Military sniper schools, military sniper units, LE units and our foreign allies...and we haven't received complaints like the ones found on the hide.

PMCS your Kestrel. Clean the device, take the batteries out to blow out any dirt in the compartment. Change batteries if you see any wear. Then recalibrate your compass (which takes 10 seconds) and your back in business.

I do appreciate the suggestions being made and I always pass every suggestion up.

Skillcraft products are used everyday by everyone in the military and government. They are still the cheapest and shittiest pens/pencils/stationary there is.

 

[Cartman]

I've left electronic equipment sit unused for several years and had batteries leak.

 

[Christopher Rance]

Hey Cobra. I'm in the service, active duty and a sniper and I've been doing it for quite some time. I'll back my statement 100%. Call the sniper units in the Army and Marine corp, call my buddies down at Bragg and Virginia Beach. Get a general consent and get back to me. I'm located in Nova too, so I'll be glad to do a face to face and go over the stats.

 

[comanche9]

The military also get the cheapest batteries and I have yet to have a Kestrel go down due to this in the past 9-10 years I have been using this 4000 series. I never take the batteries out of my Kestrels unless its to replace or inspect them. I have had other way more advanced equipment subcome to the corrosion of batteries but it was usualy the fault of the user or due to storing it with batteries in for extended periods of time (longer than 6 months). The key is to inspect your equipment periodically.

 

[Hollowpoint96]

Batteries leak and cause corrosion, I take out the batteries on my expensive equipment when stored. I have read all the details of this and many of the other threads. I fail to see why Kestrel is responsible for your negligence. If the batteries rot in my daughters doll, I don't call the company and whine that I want a new one. Suck it up man, you bought an expensive piece of equipment, now take care of it.

 

[-Nick-]

I don't know how most of you don't know to not leave a battery in electronic equipment for extended periods of time. It's not like leaking batteries are a new revelation just recently discovered. None of you complaining are going to be satisfied unless they give you brand new units and even then you'd probably bitch that they owe you the next model up for your troubles.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

I read the other threads when they came out, and when I got my Kestrel 4500 I read my manual. It does clearly say in there to remove the batteries when not in use. Despite that, I contacted Kestrel and asked them about corroding batteries. Here is what they said:

-------------- From Kestrel --------------
I spoke with one of our lead engineers. The number of devices we see returned from leaking batteries is very small, less than 0.5%. This indicates no correlation between our design and the leaking batteries.

To prevent alkaline batteries from leaking, we recommend you
1. do not mix different types of batteries
2. install both batteries from the same package (if possible)
3. keep the batteries away from sources of heat for extended periods of time
4. replace batteries in Kestrel once they are dead.
5. Do not leave batteries in the unit if you do not plan to use it for more than a few months.
6. Use a quality, well known brand

Battery brand does have a lot to do with quality.

Thank you,
Rachel Hader

There are also a lot of other forums where they discuss batteries in depth quite technically (http://www.candlepowerforums.com) where essentially corrosion is identified as coming from inexpensive batteries and over discharge. The solution seems to be to use more expensive batteries - ie, Lithium or NiMH rechargeable (not Lithium rechargeable) - but stay away from Alkaline. While it sucks to lose out on a device - as was pointed out in the other threads we have a lot of other electronic devices - and almost none of them cover battery corrosion. Making a connection between the software of the device and pointing to a causal relationship between the monitoring and the corrosion seems very unlikely as pointed out - many use these devices and don't experience the corrosion - hence it would seem that if the problem were over discharging the number of incidents would be much much higher.

This manufacturer is the ONLY manufacturer I know of that offers the loyalty program. I don't think that Vectronix would replace a Terrapin if the terminals corroded - and that is a $1900 product - with only 1 year warranty (IIRC). And if you break it, you own it. Kestrel will give you a substantial discount simply to buy another one of their products - regardless of how it was damaged - which is pretty fair in my opinion.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

perhaps a mini sd card that would allow the user to load his/her data on a computer and save it... that would be a sweet upgrade.

yes, nice to have - but for the Horus version you can save to PC right now - either via bluetooth or USB cable.

 

[-Nick-]

I read the other threads when they came out, and when I got my Kestrel 4500 I read my manual. It does clearly say in there to remove the batteries when not in use. Despite that, I contacted Kestrel and asked them about corroding batteries. Here is what they said:

-------------- From Kestrel --------------
I spoke with one of our lead engineers. The number of devices we see returned from leaking batteries is very small, less than 0.5%. This indicates no correlation between our design and the leaking batteries.

To prevent alkaline batteries from leaking, we recommend you
1. do not mix different types of batteries
2. install both batteries from the same package (if possible)
3. keep the batteries away from sources of heat for extended periods of time
4. replace batteries in Kestrel once they are dead.
5. Do not leave batteries in the unit if you do not plan to use it for more than a few months.
6. Use a quality, well known brand

Battery brand does have a lot to do with quality.

Thank you,
Rachel Hader

There are also a lot of other forums where they discuss batteries in depth quite technically (http://www.candlepowerforums.com) where essentially corrosion is identified as coming from inexpensive batteries and over discharge. The solution seems to be to use more expensive batteries - ie, Lithium or NiMH rechargeable (not Lithium rechargeable) - but stay away from Alkaline. While it sucks to lose out on a device - as was pointed out in the other threads we have a lot of other electronic devices - and almost none of them cover battery corrosion. Making a connection between the software of the device and pointing to a causal relationship between the monitoring and the corrosion seems very unlikely as pointed out - many use these devices and don't experience the corrosion - hence it would seem that if the problem were over discharging the number of incidents would be much much higher.

This manufacturer is the ONLY manufacturer I know of that offers the loyalty program. I don't think that Vectronix would replace a Terrapin if the terminals corroded - and that is a $1900 product - with only 1 year warranty (IIRC). And if you break it, you own it. Kestrel will give you a substantial discount simply to buy another one of their products - regardless of how it was damaged - which is pretty fair in my opinion.

Yeah but let's not go clouding the issue with facts...

 

[agbm]

Some battery company's will pay for electronics damaged by there batteries, this is who I would put a claim into first. Battery company's will need the batteries for proof and the damaged item. Any type of battery can leak, even lithium batteries. lithium's are suspose to be leak resistant, I would still remove them just to be safe. I just purchased a Magneto Speed Chronograph which uses 4 AAA batteries, lithium's are going into replace the alkaline batteries. Also when not in use the batteries will come out. I also have a Barrett B.O.R.S. mounted to my scope which takes a lithium 123a battery, after I'm done shooting it comes out!!!!! The issue is with all batteries, they can leak. Do not take a chance with your electronics being damaged please remove your battery when not in use!!!!!! Kestrel is being very nice by offering a trade-in on a damaged unit. One great example: Think about your car battery, a cell dies in your car battery and your alternator works double time to keep voltage up. One day your car wont start and now you learn you need a new battery, and also a new alternator. Battery was under warranty and alternator was not.


DURACELL — http://www.duracell.com/en-US/battery-care-disposal.jspx

DURACELL® BATTERY GUARANTEE

If you're not completely satisfied with a Duracell® product, contact us.

All of our batteries are guaranteed against defects in material and workmanship. Should any device be damaged by these batteries due to such defects, we will either repair or replace it if it is sent with the batteries. Send with postage prepaid to:

Duracell
Berkshire Corporate Park
Bethel, CT 06801
Att: Consumer Dept.
Phone: 1-800-551-2355

ENERGIZER — http://www.energizer.com/products/alkaline-batteries/faq/Pages/faq.aspx

The Energizer®/Eveready® guarantee typically states: "We will repair or replace, at our option, any device damaged by these Energizer® batteries. Guarantee void if batteries are charged by user or device." Contact 1-800-383-7323. This guarantee may vary globally, so please check with your local Energizer office for details.

RAYOVAC — http://www.rayovac.com/consumer/warranty.htm

General Battery Guarantee
Guarantee on all batteries*. We will replace or repair at our option, any device damaged by this battery if sent with batteries prepaid to the address below.

Spectrum Brands, Inc.
ATTN: Rayovac Consumer Services
601 Rayovac Drive
Madison, WI 53711

Trademarks of companies mentioned herein appear for identification purposes only and are the property of their respective companies.

 

[bribri]

At least you don't have to replace the whole car....like I have to replace my my kestrel. BTW if I had to guess, my kestrel sat unused for no more than 2 weeks at time in between use. I wouldn't think I would have to pull the batteries for that, especially when it isn't stated in the manual anywhere.

 

[Jrb572]

I do not know how it works with electronics. But a friend owned a motorcycle shop. I purchased a motor from him for my bike. I was worried about what oil to use for warrenty. He told me it was a law that if they would not warrenty the motor due to the oil I used they had to supply it. My feelings on it. The new models with it written in the instructions and batteries given. Then they can say we will no stand behind our product

 

[-Nick-]

At least you don't have to replace the whole car....like I have to replace my my kestrel. BTW if I had to guess, my kestrel sat unused for no more than 2 weeks at time in between use. I wouldn't think I would have to pull the batteries for that, especially when it isn't stated in the manual anywhere.

Lol... You're now comparing a car to a kestrel? Prior to this experience did you not know that batteries leak over time and to check them periodically? I just find it odd that something which has occurred for decades in other electronic and is a known fact for most people has escaped so many here.

 

[bribri]

Lol... You're now comparing a car to a kestrel? Prior to this experience did you not know that batteries leak over time and to check them periodically? I just find it odd that something which has occurred for decades in other electronic and is a known fact for most people has escaped so many here.

I'm not comparing my kestrel to car. agbm did!!!!!!

 

[bisonium]

Just a heads up for you guys when you buy electronics. ALWAYS pay with AMEX or a card that extends the warranty. By default Amex DOUBLES a manufacturer warranty up to and additional year on most electronic items. It's like getting an extended warranty for free. AMEX and some other cards will also cover accidental damage and even theft. So check with your credit card company if you paid by credit card and you might find yourself with a new Kestrel...

 

[surprise]

Tag. Thanks for the info, just got a new 4500

 

[M40_A1]

i wonder if you buy a new car, but bad oil into it and then have the engine fail ... whether you'd also complain to the car producer rather than the oil producer ...

How about if the oil leaked into the passenger compartment?
Is it really so difficult to seal the battery compartment from the electronics, or the electronics from the battery compartment? Seems like a no brainer for any quality instrument. But, I guess manufacturers get a fair amount of profit from instruments replaced for no reason other than a leaky battery.

 

[shooten]

This happened to my Kestral recently. I'm an electrical engineer and saw that there was significant damage to the circuit board. The complaint that I have with kestral is that the documentation has only a one line sentence in the papers that warn against corrosion. The second, most boneheaded on Kestral's part, is that the battery compartment is open to the circuit board. Most battery compartments are form fit to the battery and would not allow the battery acid to destroy the board in this manner. The Kestral design (4500NV) is poor. They saved a few cents on plastics and allow a $2 battery to destroy a $400 piece of gear. A sealed battery compartment would fix most of the problems and Kestral should honor their warranty for this damage.

 

[Hakshot]

How long di the batteries sit in the kestrel?

 

[p_pops]

This happened to my Kestral recently. I'm an electrical engineer and saw that there was significant damage to the circuit board. The complaint that I have with kestral is that the documentation has only a one line sentence in the papers that warn against corrosion. The second, most boneheaded on Kestral's part, is that the battery compartment is open to the circuit board. Most battery compartments are form fit to the battery and would not allow the battery acid to destroy the board in this manner. The Kestral design (4500NV) is poor. They saved a few cents on plastics and allow a $2 battery to destroy a $400 piece of gear. A sealed battery compartment would fix most of the problems and Kestral should honor their warranty for this damage.

As an EE and an eng leader for a fortune 50 I totally agree that this is a poor design. I recently had to repair some bad soldier joints in a $3 flashlight from Harbor Freight and even it had the batteries separated from the small pcb. They obviously didn't do a failure modes analysis on their design.

+1 - spot on post.

 

[jolofree]

Well like Trigger Monkey says "WeatherHawk WM-350: An Alternative to the Kestrel 4500NV". FWIW I like mine & have never had a problem with it.

 

[stik]

I am also not happy with my Kestrel. The manufacturer supplied batteries ruined the unit. It was not improperly stored or abused. My 4500nv is a dead pos.