Night Vision Nox 18 vs 35... Max? Anyone else?

[upSLIDEdown]

Looking for input, specifically on anyone that's had hands on experience with a Nox, especially both 18mm and 35mm. (May be limited to Max, I don't know how many 35s are in the wild yet)

I'm looking at a Nox for helmet mounting for coyote hunting. I currently run a Helion XP38 scanner on a neck lanyard.

It will be bridged with a WP PVS-14, but most likely not viewed simultaneously. I'll probably have the 14 flipped down driving in, hop out of the truck, and flip it up and the Nox down.

My biggest concern is I think the XP38 is a perfect happy medium, magnification and FOV wise. The 18mm Nox is wider and the 35mm is more narrow.

I worry that I won't see as much with the 18mm Nox, especially at distance or into treelines. But it would be easier to walk with, being closer to 1x. The 35mm would be much better at distance, but more difficult to walk with, and require more scanning back and forth for smaller fields.

That said, I walk with my XP38 up to my eye without issue most of the time, so maybe the 35mm would be fine... I dunno.

As a weapon site, the 35mm would be better I'd think, due to extra magnification. However, realistically, I probably wouldn't weapon mount it all that often.

Thoughts? Input? Discussion?

Thanks in advance.

 

[SkyScrapin]

If you’re viewing large pastures and have 600-1000 yards to view, the 35mm is probably a huge value. The other point is PID at range is also difficult, so I’d the additional magnification keeps you from tracking through a field because you can tell it’s not a target animal by the way it flickers it’s ears (for example), then that’s also a huge value.

The 18mm will pair well with NV, and it will also pick up heat in that 600-1000 yard range without fail. The FOV is larger which is especially helpful inside of 200 yards.

I doubt anyone has literal hands on experience outside of the N-Vision team, and for that reason, my assumptions are speculative. My gut says I’m spot on, and will validate here in Feb.

ETA: my preference is to find the heat signature with 1x magnification on a helmet followed by a verification with 2.5-6x magnification through thermal/nv on a rifle for PID. I have never felt undergunned.

 

[upSLIDEdown]

If you’re viewing large pastures and have 600-1000 yards to view, the 35mm is probably a huge value. The other point is PID at range is also difficult, so I’d the additional magnification keeps you from tracking through a field because you can tell it’s not a target animal by the way it flickers it’s ears (for example), then that’s also a huge value.

The 18mm will pair well with NV, and it will also pick up heat in that 600-1000 yard range without fail. The FOV is larger which is especially helpful inside of 200 yards.

I doubt anyone has literal hands on experience outside of the N-Vision team, and for that reason, my assumptions are speculative. My gut says I’m spot on, and will validate here in Feb.

ETA: my preference is to find the heat signature with 1x magnification on a helmet followed by a verification with 2.5-6x magnification through thermal/nv on a rifle for PID. I have never felt undergunned.

Good info, and also typically the way I do things. Detection with the Helion, go to the rifle with the pvs-30 for PID.

 

[Max_R]

I think that @SkyScrapin covered it quite accurately and there is very little that can add. The Nox18 is easier for head-mounted use because of the almost twice the field of view. Walking around with 18 is quite comfortable but you have the PVS-14 and I suppose it's going to be your primary "walking" device. The Nox35 gives almost twice the detection/PID range and will serve much better if you ever decide to use it as a scope.

 

[upSLIDEdown]

I think that @SkyScrapin covered it quite accurately and there is very little that can add. The Nox18 is easier for head-mounted use because of the almost twice the field of view. Walking around with 18 is quite comfortable but you have the PVS-14 and I suppose it's going to be your primary "walking" device. The Nox35 gives almost twice the detection/PID range and will serve much better if you ever decide to use it as a scope.

Negative. Read it again Max. Lol

The 14 will be used for driving in. That's about it. I like to scan as I walk in, because there's so much that gets missed just walking in to a stand. Can't tell you how many dogs I've w walked in on just standing in a field. Currently that means holding up an XP38 helion as I walk. This would give me the ability to be hands free scanning. Base mag on the helion is 1.9x, which is why I worry the 18mm won't be enough. FOV on the Helion is wider than the 35mm though, so I worry it's too tight. Why didn't you make a 25mm, Max? GOSH. Hahahaha

 

[Max_R]

Negative. Read it again Max. Lol

The 14 will be used for driving in. That's about it. I like to scan as I walk in, because there's so much that gets missed just walking in to a stand. Can't tell you how many dogs I've w walked in on just standing in a field. Currently that means holding up an XP38 helion as I walk. This would give me the ability to be hands free scanning. Base mag on the helion is 1.9x, which is why I worry the 18mm won't be enough. FOV on the Helion is wider than the 35mm though, so I worry it's too tight. Why didn't you make a 25mm, Max? GOSH. Hahahaha

Sorry for the misunderstanding. If the device to be used for walking and scanning, I'd think that the Nox18 would be your better bet. If uncertain about the PID, you can always fall back to your trusted PVS-30. However, based on what we see, I doubt that you'll have to do it too frequently.

 

[upSLIDEdown]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. If the device to be used for walking and scanning, I'd think that the Nox18 would be your better bet. If uncertain about the PID, you can always fall back to your trusted PVS-30. However, based on what we see, I doubt that you'll have to do it too frequently.

No worries at all, just giving you a hard time. Yeah, I think you may be right. Just hate that nagging fear that it's not quite enough. Your statement that the Nox35 offers twice the detection/PID range is what worries me. Man than would be nice. Lol. That being said, in reality, I'm not hunting the wide open plains a lot of guys are that are in the mid west.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Analysis paralysis...

get one. If it sucks sell it and get the other

 

[upSLIDEdown]

Analysis paralysis...

get one. If it sucks sell it and get the other

Shut up. Nobody asked you.

 

[avidflyer]

Shut up. Nobody asked you.

I do understand sarcasm but you do understand that is the night vision Consigliere..... Now I’ll give you time to look that up



The more I think about it this is a better clip for the people that are having current night vision business problems.... Maybe they need a good Consigliere to explain the current situation....

 

[texasleftychef]

I went with the 18 because of the 1x and to try and pair with a 14 without different magnification when in dual use. After using the 18 the 2x zoom is actually quite useful so keep that in mind too. @SkyScrapin is right though. Once you get so far you need a lot of mag for PID. The size and weight of the 35 combined with a 14 helmet mounted is going to be substantial or at least was for me with a Reap35 similar size and weight to a Nox35 and a 14.

I think all these thermal questions need to evaluated in context and mission specific. If you can only only have one thermal the 35mm range is the way to go unless you are out in the wide open. Then go 50-60mm. For me I’ve settled on the Nox18 and Reap 35 and 60 which seems to cover all my bases - 1x, 2.5x and 4.5x. I’m my opinion you need at least two as well. One for weapon and one to spot with.

 

[upSLIDEdown]

I do understand sarcasm but you do understand that is the night vision Consigliere..... Now I’ll give you time to look that up



The more I think about it this is a better clip for the people that are having current night vision business problems.... Maybe they need a good Consigliere to explain the current situation....

Lmao, I know exactly who I'm talking to. Or yelling at, as it were. He's a buddy of mine. Thanks for the concern though.

 

[upSLIDEdown]

I went with the 18 because of the 1x and to try and pair with a 14 without different magnification when in dual use. After using the 18 the 2x zoom is actually quite useful so keep that in mind too. @SkyScrapin is right though. Once you get so far you need a lot of mag for PID. The size and weight of the 35 combined with a 14 helmet mounted is going to be substantial or at least was for me with a Reap35 similar size and weight to a Nox35 and a 14.

I think all these thermal questions need to evaluated in context and mission specific. If you can only only have one thermal the 35mm range is the way to go unless you are out in the wide open. Then go 50-60mm. For me I’ve settled on the Nox18 and Reap 35 and 60 which seems to cover all my bases - 1x, 2.5x and 4.5x. I’m my opinion you need at least two as well. One for weapon and one to spot with.

I'm not sure I'll ever shoot with thermal, only because of a prior instance where someone with a thermal would have surely smoked a husky. I'd have felt horrible if I had, but with the pvs-30, I could see the Milkbone dog tag jingling in the IR.

That's true. The size of the 35 would probably be a bit much, especially bridged with a 14. Probably need to stick with the 18 tbh.

 

[texasleftychef]

Shooting with thermal only is an educated game. Reason I moved on from Flir to Pulsar to Trijicon to NVision. All of the animals have their specific movements. The more you practice and train and learn and practice the better you get. You may never be able to tell a dog from a coyote but that’s why you don’t pull the trigger. Even with a PVS30 I never felt certain at times.

I feel with the high end thermals with BAE cores you can tell much more than you think. No experience with skeet or UTC but I feel ID with thermal is better than most of the NV vendors might leave you to believe. Simple rule is don’t shoot until you are sure. Actually makes the game better. If you can’t tell get closer then abort. Night time shooting at 300 + yards is a guess at best without $20k of kit.

Not sure what you have used before but the pulsar vs a bae core is night and day difference unless you have optimal conditions. Others will disagree but truth is truth.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Night time shooting at 300 + yards is a guess at best without $20k of kit.

This is probably the most misunderstood statement that comes up time and time again. Most likely the result of being on a Long Range shooting forum driving more interest towards long range hunting.

I tend to boil it down to a few different categories which can be accomplished with the following or similar. I'm not saying these are the hard stops, but they're certainly the type of gear I would leverage for given yardages.

Near Range - Inside of 150 yards. Really, any thermal is going to work for this situation. I suspect most people are in this group given that even the heaviest stepper is far more sneaky in the darkness of night, and in general, most hunters prefer to get closer to their target as it produces more follow-up opportunities. In the pig hunting world, this is especially important.

Intermediate Range - Between 151 and 300 yards. If you're shooting a flat trajectory round, you can get away with on target impact so long as you have magnification ranges of 2.5x or greater. The primary problem is knowing your range which is easily remedied with a LRF. If you have your dope memorized or you're shooting a fairly flat shooting round, you can easily hold over. The N-Vision gives you a usable reticle which may offer slightly more precise aiming capability than the Trij line-up, but the Trij line-up is still quite capable. Bottom line, you need a range finder because it's extremely difficult to discern 300 yards from 400 or 500 yards.

Long Range - Greater than 300 yards. You need a weapons mounted LRF, you need to have a usable reticle, you need to have a steady rest (tripod is a must), you need to have your dope memorized - a HUD - or a Raptar S type device. You could get away with a LRF attached to a Garmin Delta if you can see the lasers wavelength through NV. If you have Thermal capability only, you're in a pickle. Either way, hunting at night in a long range config is extremely costly, not as practical as most people think, adds significant weight to your rifle, adds extra steps before you can engage, and isn't always easy to PID your target even with the best equipment.

These are specifically my opinions as I fall into all three categories.

Most pig hunters will fall into Near Range, you have thermal on a helmet and NV or Thermal on your weapon. This is going to run 8-11k~ at current pricing with US made products.

Most coyote hunters will want to fall into Intermediate Range, thermal on helmet and dedicated optic or clip-on, and this will run you 13k-15k~ most likely.

Equipment that is used for shooting beyond 300 yards is generally mediocre inside of 40 yards due to FOV and optical magnification, and for a thermal mounted helmet unit plus weapons mounted kit, you're looking at $18k-27k or more.

 

[upSLIDEdown]

All great info for sure, and info I agree with. This game isn't easy or cheap, which is why it's so addictive for me.

I completely understand that animal movement is paramount when trying to PID something. I also know that I've shown the husky photos and vids to people, INCLUDING the consigliere Mr Killswitch. Haha. Anyone with thermal only would have smoked him. Presented options at 300yds, 125yds, and 40yds. He'd have died. No question.

I'm not sure how we got sidetracked into shooting with thermal though. Maybe I should have talked more about my setup. Seems there are a lot of folks that think I'm new to all of this. I hunt with a flat 6mm gasser, NF SHV, PVS-30, Luna, and SiCo Radius. I scan with a Helion XP38. I also have a couple 14s and a pair of DTNVGs. I killed 57 coyotes in 2020. Farthest kill is 375ish in the dark, and I've been to 815yds on steel (in the dark). I'm no stranger to the night.

In reality, I'm probably gonna just have to pick one and hope. I've just seen a couple people say the 18 wasn't enough base mag for them, and it got me scared of it. If it's mainly for detection though, I guess it really doesn't matter. The pvs-30 is really for PID. I just don't want to be at less of an advantage as what I have currently (XP38). I would GUESS the BAE cored Nox18 would be just as good as the Pulsar XP38, despite having less base mag and more FOV, because BAE. But I don't know that for sure. I know the Halo LR I've been behind is amazing. Which, again, is part of my worry with the 18, making me want the extra distance out of the 35.

Glad you guys are all here for me to ramble on and on and on, trying to talk myself in and out of these two; albeit unsuccessfully so far.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

...

was that a doe or coyote or.....a husky with a milkbone necklace....

signed yours truly,

the Consigliere

 

[HOLD_OVER]

I went with the 18 because of the 1x and to try and pair with a 14 without different magnification when in dual use. After using the 18 the 2x zoom is actually quite useful so keep that in mind too. @SkyScrapin is right though. Once you get so far you need a lot of mag for PID. The size and weight of the 35 combined with a 14 helmet mounted is going to be substantial or at least was for me with a Reap35 similar size and weight to a Nox35 and a 14.

I think all these thermal questions need to evaluated in context and mission specific. If you can only only have one thermal the 35mm range is the way to go unless you are out in the wide open. Then go 50-60mm. For me I’ve settled on the Nox18 and Reap 35 and 60 which seems to cover all my bases - 1x, 2.5x and 4.5x. I’m my opinion you need at least two as well. One for weapon and one to spot with.

Im going to second what Texasleftychef said. After using the 18mm the 2x feature is super fast to use, and more than enough to verify those distant heat signatures while scanning a field.

Ive got a 35mm on order, but I imagine it'll be married to a weapon

 

[Moorslayer]

Just received my Nox35.
Turned on once and then nothing!
Damn near 7K and this damn thing doesn’t even work!!!

Waiting to hear from Nvision

 

[Moorslayer]

Just received my Nox35.
Turned on once and then nothing!
Damn near 7K and this damn thing doesn’t even work!!!

Waiting to hear from Nvision

 

[Greyswandir]

Just received my Nox35.
Turned on once and then nothing!
Damn near 7K and this damn thing doesn’t even work!!!

Waiting to hear from Nvision

Ouch. I’m sure nvision will take care of you but man

 

[Jgunner]

18mm is friggin killer. It was a game changer and has doubled my kills easily. I run a halo LR and nox, awaiting my pvs. You have no idea what you are missing unless you are scanning while walking in. Just last week i parked, kitted up, started walking, got 10 yards and bam, coyote 10’ away! I had to let him walk off a bit before dropping him. I need a pvs and a laser for my pistol, seriously. Its the third dog in a month that was under 100 yards from my truck.

once my pvs shows up, i am buying a tor mini for my glock. Now if i can get a holster made for that. Haha

 

[Max_R]

Just received my Nox35.
Turned on once and then nothing!
Damn near 7K and this damn thing doesn’t even work!!!

Waiting to hear from Nvision

Sorry to hear about your problem. If it's not a trivial problem such as a dead battery, which I'm pretty sure you checked by now, can you shoot an email to [email protected] with your phone number? Somebody (probably Chris) will get back to you ASAP and will walk you through possible troubleshooting steps or will figure out together with you the best way to take care of your Nox.

 

[wigwamitus]

Does the Trijicon CEO show up on here when people have problems with their REAPs ... within 5 hours of the problem post ... when they are on PTO !!??

 

[Frog05]

Does the Trijicon CEO show up on here when people have problems with their REAPs ... within 5 hours of the problem post ... when they are on PTO !!??

Negatif. @Max_R and company are awesome!

 

[Moorslayer]

Sorry to hear about your problem. If it's not a trivial problem such as a dead battery, which I'm pretty sure you checked by now, can you shoot an email to [email protected] with your phone number? Somebody (probably Chris) will get back to you ASAP and will walk you through possible troubleshooting steps or will figure out together with you the best way to take care of your Nox.

It’s not a dead battery
I tried another battery.

Im amazed that a product at this price point is defective.

 

[wigwamitus]

It is surprising it got thru QA. I'd love to hear the report after n-vision examines.

 

[Max_R]

It’s not a dead battery
I tried another battery.

Im amazed that a product at this price point is defective.

Did you try to contact the support? Guys back in the office will be glad to help even over the weekend. Please let me know if you were not helped after submitting your info.

 

[stefan73]

It’s not a dead battery
I tried another battery.

Im amazed that a product at this price point is defective.

Buy a new ford truck, then be surprised and see how helpful Ford is. Just saying

Stuff happens and you are the first I have heard of having an issue. Also, you have no idea how it was handled during shipping.

I get it is frustrating, but you have the CEO on here and trying to make sure you are being helped/taken care of.

Just my .02

 

[AK_Stick]

Just finished a 4 day hunt with my Nox 18.


It’s a phenomenal spotter, and I managed to center punch a yote at 165 yards. That said, I find it a little light on native mag, and I’m trying to decide if I should trade for a 35-50mm setup or sell it and get inline for the Halo-X35

 

[jwramp]

Wonder if there’s anybody trying to make a 3x magnifier for them... that’d be pretty killer, especially if they screwed down tight enough to retain zero and be able to shoot with them installed.

 

[Max_R]

Wonder if there’s anybody trying to make a 3x magnifier for them... that’d be pretty killer, especially if they screwed down tight enough to retain zero and be able to shoot with them installed.

Making a 3X magnifier lens for 18mm Nox is not out of the question. There is a good chance that somebody sooner or later will make those magnifiers. However, zero retention throughout the focusing range will be a major problem. The Nox will probably have to be zeroed with a magnifier at the "infinity" focus and this zero will be different from the zero without a magnifier. Sorry, no matter how tight the magnifier will fit, it will be tough to guarantee that it will be lined up perfectly (under 0.5 MOA or so). Anything over it is not going to fly.