Night Vision NV outside U.S. ?

[Sudinim]

NV outside U.S. ?

Looking to purchase some decent NV equipment. Obviously with the export restrictions, anyone own or know where to look for half decent equipment ?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

ITAR will not allow anything better than Gen 2 out of the states. So if you are looking for anything better than that you arent gonna find much.

Victor @ TNVC would be the man to ask as he deals primarily with NV/ Thermal devices

 

[Sudinim]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

HDC, thanks, Im aware of the ITAR restrictions, hence the question. Youve got all the toys Stateside, just hoping someone may have a line on something half decent outside the U.S.

Spoke to Victor, very knowledgable, but with the restrictions, couldnt really offer any help.

Any UK lads on here got any offerings ?

 

[Pinco Palla]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

Get in touch with Michael @ http://www.night-tronic.de/ in Germany

PP out

 

[Fredo]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

FOM 1250 - 1600 are exportable. Which to where depends on restrictions.

 

[Fx1]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fredo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FOM 1250 - 1600 are exportable. Which to where depends on restrictions.</div></div>

Not unless your LE or Mil.

Gen 3 can be gotten if you know who to talk to

 

[Sudinim]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

Thanks Gents, could of ideas there for me to work with, appreciate it.

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sudinim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Gents, could of ideas there for me to work with, appreciate it.

</div></div>

Try the UK forums... There are some Gen3 outside of the US - rare, but they usually show up in the UK. A lot of ex MOD Gen3 (Omni III/IV level ) recently got made available through surplus channels in the UK.
UK Forums...


You can also get good Gen2... XR5 is roughly on-par with Omni V. Not cheap but the options outside of the US are rather limited.

On the other hand, if you're just looking for a small monocular to use, then the D300-2MS is well priced for what it is and can be exported... A few US sellers will export.

The final avenue for non-US buyers seems to be Canada. They will also sell Photonis ( Gen2 ) kit like the XR5.

Although if you're looking for most of the bang without the buck, consider something in SHP Gen2. ( Supergen )

Hope this helps

Regards
David

 

[Fx1]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cj7hawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sudinim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Gents, could of ideas there for me to work with, appreciate it.

</div></div>

Try the UK forums... There are some Gen3 outside of the US - rare, but they usually show up in the UK. A lot of ex MOD Gen3 (Omni III/IV level ) recently got made available through surplus channels in the UK.
UK Forums...


You can also get good Gen2... XR5 is roughly on-par with Omni V. Not cheap but the options outside of the US are rather limited.

On the other hand, if you're just looking for a small monocular to use, then the D300-2MS is well priced for what it is and can be exported... A few US sellers will export.

The final avenue for non-US buyers seems to be Canada. They will also sell Photonis ( Gen2 ) kit like the XR5.

Although if you're looking for most of the bang without the buck, consider something in SHP Gen2. ( Supergen )

Hope this helps

Regards
David </div></div>

David those SHP Gen 2 are not Supergen, Supergen is Supergen. infact your likely to get less performance with Supergen than the XX1441 tubes that are sold as SHP. XX1441 is technically a failed tube sold as commercial spec cheaper than a Supergen tube but can be much higher in performance equal to XD4 or XR5.

if this make sense

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fx1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cj7hawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sudinim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Gents, could of ideas there for me to work with, appreciate it.

</div></div>

Although if you're looking for most of the bang without the buck, consider something in SHP Gen2. ( Supergen )

</div></div>

David those SHP Gen 2 are not Supergen, Supergen is Supergen. infact your likely to get less performance with Supergen than the XX1441 tubes that are sold as SHP. XX1441 is technically a failed tube sold as commercial spec cheaper than a Supergen tube but can be much higher in performance equal to XD4 or XR5.

if this make sense </div></div>

Sort of yes and no. A lot of terms disappeared with the conglomeration of many of the NV companies into Photonis.

The only correct term for that line of products now is Supergen, so SHD-3 also disappeared though SHP is a very generic term still used in the US.

The real classification for those kind of tubes is SSG or Super Second Generatio, which began with the XX1610. That covers SHP, SHD-3, Supergen, Hypergen, XR5, XD4 and a lot of others...

Although XR5 and XD4 are considered higher than Supergen, they are still technically just SSG tubes. Photonis, however, uses the terms as marketing differentiators.

XX1441 can be almost anything it seems, but the actual minimum specification is lower than Supergen, so I guess it can go both ways too, but they seem a very popular choice at the moment and are very good tubes, regardless.

Official specs are here: xx1441 specifications

Regards
David.

 

[Fx1]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

David your using Supergen brand as a discriptor for a whole line of tubes which are all Super 2nd gen tubes produced in the EU.

Supergen is the brand just like XR5 and XD4 - Check Photonis website.

Yes the 1441 specs minimums are lower but you can 90% be sure that a 1441 will have better specs than a Supergen(R) tube since the supergen is limited by its better brothers XD4 and XR5 where the XX1441 is not.

Also did you edit that post as its not the same as when i first read it.

 

[Bevan]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

I'm in New Zealand and interested in NV gear. I just want a monocular of some sort that I can headmount and hunt at night with... so much hassle though. Goddamn it US Gov't, I'm not a fuckin terrorist

 

[Fx1]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

You can get gear from the EU as good as Gen 3 but its priced about 2-3x as much. a high spec XR5 will perform as good as a gen 3 on all but the darkest of nights and i mean pitch black such as no starts or moon and no glow from nearby city or towns. its hard to find these conditions in the UK.

the trade off is 50% longer tube life and a very high signal to noise.

The problem is that you can buy tubes which are average in performance in the states and they are as good as the best XR5 but are priced at about 30% of the cost.

its all about the moneyz

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fx1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">David your using Supergen brand as a discriptor for a whole line of tubes which are all Super 2nd gen tubes produced in the EU.

Supergen is the brand just like XR5 and XD4 - Check Photonis website.

Yes the 1441 specs minimums are lower but you can 90% be sure that a 1441 will have better specs than a Supergen(R) tube since the supergen is limited by its better brothers XD4 and XR5 where the XX1441 is not.

Also did you edit that post as its not the same as when i first read it. </div></div>

Eh? I thought that's what I said. I did mention that the only official term was super second generation and that Supergen was the current term for the [photonis] line though I didn't mentioned photonis. I think we're on the same page there - only not quite using the same words.

It's not that I don't believe you about the xx1441 - I hear a lot of good stuff about them... I just don't have anything official on it.

I didn't edit the earlier post and although I do sometimes edit my posts, it usually shows up as "edited" somewhere on the post.

Anyway, to Bevan, what sort of scope are you looking for? Budget is important... The xx1441 as was mentioned is probably quite a good choice outside the US if it's within budget.

Regards
David

 

[Bevan]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

I have used a pvs14, that is the level of performance I'm after. Price is more a secondary consideration

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have used a pvs14, that is the level of performance I'm after. Price is more a secondary consideration </div></div>

Well, I daresay you'd probably be happy with an XR5 based system then.

Regards
David

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?


Woah! Are these prices serious?

http://www.guncity.co.nz/night-vision-goggles-nvg7xr5-milspec-special-order-xidp163672.html

This one comes with a $2000 discount and only costs $19,999.00

WHAT!!!!!!! For an ATN scope! I really hope that's not the housing the NZ .MIL use...

David.

 

[Bevan]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

Gun City are the worst. No-one with half a brain buys from them

 

[Sudinim]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

How frustrating. Can buy GEN II+ GEn III and XR5 in Europe so long as its a rear mounted unit ! I really like the ease of a front mounted unit, but can I get one, hell no !

Its deemed fine to be able to buy rear mount but not front mount, frustrating to say the least !

Anyone offer any advise..... link to possibly buying front mounted units ?

 

[Cardinal]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

Front mounted are available in Norway, but unfortunately its the ATN PS22 gen2 and not the better manufacturers. Not sure if they can re-export it.
Simrads' is another option though very expensive.

 

[Sudinim]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

Wouldnt touch ATN products, very poor business ethics Im led to beleive.

Simrad, Im certain that there like Zeiss Hensoldt, Military or Law enforement only.

You guys in the U.S. , dont know how lucky you are !

 

[Cardinal]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

Simrads branch in the US is Mil/LE only.
But their main office in Norway was willing to sell to civilians the last time I called them. But not sure if they will export.

 

[Bevan]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

Can you link me to a site where I can purchase a very good rear mounted or headmounted unit?

 

[Pandamonia]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

Alpha optics in Canada

 

[Emouse]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

D-760 with a decent DEP tube is every bit as good as a RAPTOR unless you really push the limits. Its also far lighter.These are available in Europe from any number of sellers. If you want a PVS-14, again these can be found legally in Europe from authorised sellers.

You can submit a DSP83 via an authorised US exporter and see if you get clearance for the relevant FOM level designated for yor Country. You will also need an import cert and will have to pay sales tax and import duties.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

There are authorised sources for PVS-14 in Europe?

Where are they? can you post a link?

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are authorised sources for PVS-14 in Europe?

Where are they? can you post a link? </div></div>

There are authorised sources for the PVS-14 <span style="font-style: italic">in the middle east</span>! The US exports them all over the place, but they can be difficult to obtain and expensive. Also, as mentioned, they would be FOM limited and often supplied only for MIL/LE/GOV use.

On top of that, the US/UK/AU are close to finalising a treaty that should allow transfer of that kind of technology between their countries ( except AU to UK ) without a license and in exemption of ITAR.

Regards
David

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

Interesting, thanks David

 

[Emouse]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

http://www.i-e-a.de/

They will have what you want.

If you draw a blank PM me and I will give you suppliers in Greece/Switzerland and even Israel!

US ITAR is still under discussion with UK authorities and despite years of promises from various US Presidents it still remains a major hinderence to business.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

Thanks Emouse - appreciated!

 

[Bevan]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

How do I contact them to enquire as to exportation/prices etc. I want.

 

[Emouse]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

email of fax. Its unlikely that they will export outside of the EU.

 

[Bevan]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

I'm now looking into Alpha optics. Got a reply. Seems they can get me 'GenIII' mini-monocular. As yet no data on which tubes it uses so...

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

I mailed Michael at i-a-de six weeks ago....so far NOTHING!

However, I'm out of the market - just found a UK issue L14A2 CWS (GenII mil). It arrived today - very clean, in fact almost as new! The guy I got it from knows of around 5 more that are for sale.

Plan to give it a thorough test tonight before finally confirming the deal.

If I get a chance will try to post pics before the weekend.

PM me if you are interested and I'll give you the link to the seller (he's in the UK).

Also.....if any one interested in collectables....he has a mint condition Vietnam era PVS2 available.......

 

[Emouse]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I mailed Michael at i-a-de six weeks ago....so far NOTHING!

However, I'm out of the market - just found a UK issue L14A2 CWS (GenII mil). It arrived today - very clean, in fact almost as new! The guy I got it from knows of around 5 more that are for sale.

Plan to give it a thorough test tonight before finally confirming the deal.

If I get a chance will try to post pics before the weekend.

PM me if you are interested and I'll give you the link to the seller (he's in the UK).

Also.....if any one interested in collectables....he has a mint condition Vietnam era PVS2 available.......</div></div>


CWS,...Almost certainly STOLEN.

 

[Spanners]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

TNVC isnt interested in exporting regardless of what it is.

Kobi @ opticshq can sort you out with the best you can get out of the US and the associated paperwork at good prices - ie Gen 2+ SHP

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fuck them, go to Alpha optics in Canada. better and cheaper than Opticshq. </div></div>

Sorry you feel this way, it's our policy.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spanners</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TNVC isnt interested in exporting regardless of what it is.

Kobi @ opticshq can sort you out with the best you can get out of the US and the associated paperwork at good prices - ie Gen 2+ SHP </div></div>

Sorry, it's our policy. Kobi WILL take good care of you.

Just for the record, Milspec/Pandamonia (same guy from the UK) have been trashing 2 good NV companies for a long bit of time. He is welcomed at another NV site with welcomed arms who allow all these flagrant and slanderous posts.

We are sure glad the Hide and other WELL RESPECTIVE sites recognize these select few who continue to have their agenda's. Thank you Lowlight.

Vic

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I mailed Michael at i-a-de six weeks ago....so far NOTHING!

However, I'm out of the market - just found a UK issue L14A2 CWS (GenII mil). It arrived today - very clean, in fact almost as new! The guy I got it from knows of around 5 more that are for sale.

Plan to give it a thorough test tonight before finally confirming the deal.

If I get a chance will try to post pics before the weekend.

PM me if you are interested and I'll give you the link to the seller (he's in the UK).

Also.....if any one interested in collectables....he has a mint condition Vietnam era PVS2 available.......</div></div>


CWS,...Almost certainly STOLEN. </div></div>

emouse

Your generalisation about stolen items (which,from your PM, apparently centres around the existence of a serial number and amendment plate in the base) is mis-infomed and, in this case, 100% incorrect.

If the scope has a serial number and an amendment plate then it is an issue one.

I will agree that if there is glue residue or evidence of damage in the plate section (like some I have seen) then the plate has been taken off and this <span style="text-decoration: underline">may</span> be an indication that this is an issue unit that <span style="text-decoration: underline">may</span> have been stolen.

The one I have was an original evaluation unit. I know who originally bought these from the MOD via their designated disposal contractor. These units had no serial number or amendment plates attached when supplied.

After evaluation some of these subsequently went to Scottish Estates for "after dark" welfare use on game. I know of several of these that are now being sold on.

The civvy ones ("freely" available - if you have around £5000 - in the UK under the name Pilkington "Kite") don't have any plates although they have the recesses machined in the base for them.

New Police issue ones are sold without plates but with the Weaver Mount, not the SA80 or AI rail adaptor.

The bottom line is that ALL bases were machined with the recesses for the plates but not all scopes had the plates fitted.

 

[Emouse]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I mailed Michael at i-a-de six weeks ago....so far NOTHING!

However, I'm out of the market - just found a UK issue L14A2 CWS (GenII mil). It arrived today - very clean, in fact almost as new! The guy I got it from knows of around 5 more that are for sale.

Plan to give it a thorough test tonight before finally confirming the deal.

If I get a chance will try to post pics before the weekend.

PM me if you are interested and I'll give you the link to the seller (he's in the UK).

Also.....if any one interested in collectables....he has a mint condition Vietnam era PVS2 available.......</div></div>


CWS,...Almost certainly STOLEN. </div></div>

emouse

Your generalisation about stolen items (which,from your PM, apparently centres around the existence of a serial number and amendment plate in the base) is mis-infomed and, in this case, 100% incorrect.

If the scope has a serial number and an amendment plate then it is an issue one.

I will agree that if there is glue residue or evidence of damage in the plate section (like some I have seen) then the plate has been taken off and this <span style="text-decoration: underline">may</span> be an indication that this is an issue unit that <span style="text-decoration: underline">may</span> have been stolen.

The one I have was an original evaluation unit. I know who originally bought these from the MOD via their designated disposal contractor. These units had no serial number or amendment plates attached when supplied.

After evaluation some of these subsequently went to Scottish Estates for "after dark" welfare use on game. I know of several of these that are now being sold on.

The civvy ones ("freely" available - if you have around £5000 - in the UK under the name Pilkington "Kite") don't have any plates although they have the recesses machined in the base for them.

New Police issue ones are sold without plates but with the Weaver Mount, not the SA80 or AI rail adaptor.

The bottom line is that ALL bases were machined with the recesses for the plates but not all scopes had the plates fitted.</div></div>


Lol,...what nonsense!

Pilkington haven't existed as a company for many years now and CWS Kite originate from THALES at the St Asaph Factory.

Designated Disposal Contractor: Anything disposed of by MoD would have a formal disposal notice/certificate.

Yes,..all CWS can be identified even when the original tabs are missing.

Yes, you can buy one new from several sources and yes, they come with a formal sales receipt.

Items sold to the Police DO have seriel numbers externally and tube numbers are recorded also.

Original Evaluation item,..that would be pretty old kit by now.

There are lots of stolen CWS in circulation and a very small amount that have been legally purchased.

The item has now been replaced by SNIPERKITE although this has yet to see general issue.

If you want to establish if what you have is legal, require tube(s) or parts then feel free to contact me.

My intention was not to upset you, but o simply make you aware that you should be careful what you buy?

 

[Bevan]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

hey i need a headmount or helmet mount for a PVS14 outside the USA,

hellllllppppp?

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey i need a headmount or helmet mount for a PVS14 outside the USA,

hellllllppppp? </div></div>

I've sent you some links. Airsoft stuff works well and is available outside the US. Not as good as the real stuff, but then it's cheap and you can always use a tether.

Hope it helps -

David

 

[dbateman]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

David have you heard any updates on getting Gen111 into Au ?

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?


Not really no. At least not at a reasonable price. I spoke to Defense Exports about it and the new treaty should be signed in a few months, which will release the licensing requirements for some US suppliers and hopefully allow exchange of dual-use items.

Regards
David.

 

[dbateman]

Re: NV outside U.S. ?

Thanks for the info David , would you be able to update of any changes you seem to know whats going on with NV in Au .

Thanks Dave .