OCW Results Evaluation
- Thread starter fewenuff
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Re: OCW Results Evaluation
I would do 0.2 grain increments from about 44.4 to 45.4 grains. There should be a node right around 45.o grains. If you dont mind loading your rounds that hot all the time that is.
I would do 0.2 grain increments from about 44.4 to 45.4 grains. There should be a node right around 45.o grains. If you dont mind loading your rounds that hot all the time that is.
Re: OCW Results Evaluation
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fewenuff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What could this test tell me then?
1) I suck at times which means I suck and need to work on my technique
But I get to shoot more
</div></div>
Well then shoot more........
Not trying to be dick or anything here but if someone is willing to admit it might be "them", then it's more than prudent to eliminate "them" as the variable in the equation before delving into some sort of load work up technique hoping for a miracle. Dan plainly states in the introduction that it is presumed you already know what you are doing behind a rifle BEFORE looking into his load development methods.
My advice here is to pick one of those "loads" that shoots fairly decent, say, 44.5; and load a shit pot full of them; and shoot them all gone.
Repeat that process until you KNOW what the rifle is doing, and you KNOW what you are doing. Shoot that load until the same thing happens every time with boring regularity. Shoot that load until YOU make it shoot the best it possibly can. Shoot that load until you KNOW it ISN'T you that might be the problem. Shoot that load until YOU want to make IT do MUCH better.....and CAN.
Then come back here with some OCW targets and show US what you can do with it....Damn newbies anyhow.
Hope that wasn't too harh............
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fewenuff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What could this test tell me then?
1) I suck at times which means I suck and need to work on my technique
</div></div>
Well then shoot more........
Not trying to be dick or anything here but if someone is willing to admit it might be "them", then it's more than prudent to eliminate "them" as the variable in the equation before delving into some sort of load work up technique hoping for a miracle. Dan plainly states in the introduction that it is presumed you already know what you are doing behind a rifle BEFORE looking into his load development methods.
My advice here is to pick one of those "loads" that shoots fairly decent, say, 44.5; and load a shit pot full of them; and shoot them all gone.
Repeat that process until you KNOW what the rifle is doing, and you KNOW what you are doing. Shoot that load until the same thing happens every time with boring regularity. Shoot that load until YOU make it shoot the best it possibly can. Shoot that load until you KNOW it ISN'T you that might be the problem. Shoot that load until YOU want to make IT do MUCH better.....and CAN.
Then come back here with some OCW targets and show US what you can do with it....Damn newbies anyhow.
Hope that wasn't too harh............
Re: OCW Results Evaluation
I would reload all the same as you did and then do a ladder test. look up and read
this
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/long-range-load-development/
I do this at 300yds and have very good results. 600yds is even better
I would reload all the same as you did and then do a ladder test. look up and read
this
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/long-range-load-development/
I do this at 300yds and have very good results. 600yds is even better
Re: OCW Results Evaluation
Been there done that "sweet spot around 44gr" or node sorry if I was not clear on that. Was experimenting with OCW for grins and giggles. Had some flyers aka bad day at the range but wanted to salvage something out of the effort. I wanted to humbly enter discussions on the topic because I had not done much OCW testing. 1 dick and 1 helpful hey that's pretty darn good 50%.
I too shoot my ladder tests at 600 yds. I shoot mostly 600-1000 yds at higher altitudes and lottsa wind so it works the best for me.
The OCW and ladder tests being in somewhat close agreement is a warm and fuzzy. I'll be exploring the 44-45gr window a little closer. Ladder and OCW at 600yd as "Dan" points out.
Thx for the cross-reference and ideas!
Been there done that "sweet spot around 44gr" or node sorry if I was not clear on that. Was experimenting with OCW for grins and giggles. Had some flyers aka bad day at the range but wanted to salvage something out of the effort. I wanted to humbly enter discussions on the topic because I had not done much OCW testing. 1 dick and 1 helpful hey that's pretty darn good 50%.
I too shoot my ladder tests at 600 yds. I shoot mostly 600-1000 yds at higher altitudes and lottsa wind so it works the best for me.
The OCW and ladder tests being in somewhat close agreement is a warm and fuzzy. I'll be exploring the 44-45gr window a little closer. Ladder and OCW at 600yd as "Dan" points out.
Thx for the cross-reference and ideas!
Re: OCW Results Evaluation
I'm a little biased against using max-loads +. I mean even if there are no warning signs I just don't like to push the bullets that hard. Eh?! I'm still going to explore in that area though and keep an eye on the barrel. Might not shoot long term at that weight but it is a nice data point to have.
Going tomorrow with 44.0-44.7 gr in 0.1 gr increments and revisit 45.4 gr to see how it works at 600 yds.
Thanks for suggestion! I will keep an eye out around 45 gr working from 44.8-45.4 next time.
I'm a little biased against using max-loads +. I mean even if there are no warning signs I just don't like to push the bullets that hard. Eh?! I'm still going to explore in that area though and keep an eye on the barrel. Might not shoot long term at that weight but it is a nice data point to have.
Going tomorrow with 44.0-44.7 gr in 0.1 gr increments and revisit 45.4 gr to see how it works at 600 yds.
Thanks for suggestion! I will keep an eye out around 45 gr working from 44.8-45.4 next time.
Re: OCW Results Evaluation
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fewenuff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Being a dick comes easy for some and not so easy for others. "Dan" needs no defense certainly not from a dick. As for being a newby careful you are approaching being an ignorant dick which is way worse than just being a dick.
Thanks for the veteran dick insight.
</div></div>
I'm not the one who posted up an "OCW test" wilst wondering if it were me or not....logic dictates that you remove you as much as possible before trying out an advanced load development technique. Not my fault that you have a hard time clearly seeing that point. Your target doesn't have shit for logical data and it's easy to see you need to learn how to shoot....
You might want to study more on the principles behind OCW so you can eventually realize the concept.....it's clear you've not a clue yet. OCW is ALL about point of impact in relation to point of aim, not "sort of". This might snap your mind but you need to SEE the barrel harmonics on target to get a handle on the OCW. My question is this: where's your lower accuracy node and your higher accuracy node, and the corrosponding scatter nodes north and south of those two points in the parameters?
You wanted an evaluation, and you got one.......
And speaking of "Dan", as you put it, Newberry...seems he's a personal friend of mine, lives down the road from me about 20 minutes, likes to go to lunch at Denny's, Rides a bad ass Harley, and knows his shit about rifles and reloading.
I'd give you his phone number but I seriously doubt he could tell you a single damn thing..........
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fewenuff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Being a dick comes easy for some and not so easy for others. "Dan" needs no defense certainly not from a dick. As for being a newby careful you are approaching being an ignorant dick which is way worse than just being a dick.
Thanks for the veteran dick insight.
</div></div>
I'm not the one who posted up an "OCW test" wilst wondering if it were me or not....logic dictates that you remove you as much as possible before trying out an advanced load development technique. Not my fault that you have a hard time clearly seeing that point. Your target doesn't have shit for logical data and it's easy to see you need to learn how to shoot....
You might want to study more on the principles behind OCW so you can eventually realize the concept.....it's clear you've not a clue yet. OCW is ALL about point of impact in relation to point of aim, not "sort of". This might snap your mind but you need to SEE the barrel harmonics on target to get a handle on the OCW. My question is this: where's your lower accuracy node and your higher accuracy node, and the corrosponding scatter nodes north and south of those two points in the parameters?
You wanted an evaluation, and you got one.......
And speaking of "Dan", as you put it, Newberry...seems he's a personal friend of mine, lives down the road from me about 20 minutes, likes to go to lunch at Denny's, Rides a bad ass Harley, and knows his shit about rifles and reloading.
I'd give you his phone number but I seriously doubt he could tell you a single damn thing..........
Re: OCW Results Evaluation
So here is my question...
I just tried using OCW as well with results that were similar to above meaning I could not find any useful data. I figure it is one of 2 things...
1. Me and my shooting skills. So based on the recommendations above, if I make a load that has been proven by others (say 44.5gr Varget under a 178gr Amax)and practice with this load...how do I know that load is not going to be a scatter node for my rifle? I guess I could always buy a bunch of FGMM and shoot but I was hoping to do it with reloads.
2. The rifle. My Rem700AAC has about 600rounds through it. I think I am seeing a trend where the groups start to open up after 30-50 rounds. I have read alot here about cleaning and consensus seems that less is more, but I truly think my rifle fowls out rapidly.I see groups start around 0.6-0.75" when its clean but they open up to 1.5"-2" after about 50 rounds. The barrel can't be shot out. Should I clean more?
So here is my question...
I just tried using OCW as well with results that were similar to above meaning I could not find any useful data. I figure it is one of 2 things...
1. Me and my shooting skills. So based on the recommendations above, if I make a load that has been proven by others (say 44.5gr Varget under a 178gr Amax)and practice with this load...how do I know that load is not going to be a scatter node for my rifle? I guess I could always buy a bunch of FGMM and shoot but I was hoping to do it with reloads.
2. The rifle. My Rem700AAC has about 600rounds through it. I think I am seeing a trend where the groups start to open up after 30-50 rounds. I have read alot here about cleaning and consensus seems that less is more, but I truly think my rifle fowls out rapidly.I see groups start around 0.6-0.75" when its clean but they open up to 1.5"-2" after about 50 rounds. The barrel can't be shot out. Should I clean more?
Re: OCW Results Evaluation
When I was first getting started and my skills were lacking, I would use a 4 or 5 round group, keeping note of the shots I thought were bad and ignoring them for the analysis.
At some point you need to stop testing and go shooting. I picked the best load from the OCW and didn't change a thing for almost 2 years. When I came back and repeated the OCW test, the results were easier to read and pointed to the same load. Anything I missed in those 2 years was me, not the load.
DogDoc, that sounds odd. Just out of curiosity, what happens if you don't clean it and take it out a few days later? How fast are you shooting, is the barrel getting too hot? Lastly, I don't know what stock comes with that, but I'd check the action screws and see if it needs bedding.
When I was first getting started and my skills were lacking, I would use a 4 or 5 round group, keeping note of the shots I thought were bad and ignoring them for the analysis.
At some point you need to stop testing and go shooting. I picked the best load from the OCW and didn't change a thing for almost 2 years. When I came back and repeated the OCW test, the results were easier to read and pointed to the same load. Anything I missed in those 2 years was me, not the load.
DogDoc, that sounds odd. Just out of curiosity, what happens if you don't clean it and take it out a few days later? How fast are you shooting, is the barrel getting too hot? Lastly, I don't know what stock comes with that, but I'd check the action screws and see if it needs bedding.
Re: OCW Results Evaluation
Fewenuff,
How is your rifle supported? Bipod?
What are you shooting off? Concrete bench?
Try shooting off from a pack or a sand bag, this really helps as the rifle and bipod won't jump up from the bench when the round is fired, thus throwing/skewing shots.
Fewenuff,
How is your rifle supported? Bipod?
What are you shooting off? Concrete bench?
Try shooting off from a pack or a sand bag, this really helps as the rifle and bipod won't jump up from the bench when the round is fired, thus throwing/skewing shots.
Re: OCW Results Evaluation
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was first getting started and my skills were lacking, I would use a 4 or 5 round group, keeping note of the shots I thought were bad and ignoring them for the analysis.
At some point you need to stop testing and go shooting. I picked the best load from the OCW and didn't change a thing for almost 2 years. When I came back and repeated the OCW test, the results were easier to read and pointed to the same load. Anything I missed in those 2 years was me, not the load.
DogDoc, that sounds odd. Just out of curiosity, what happens if you don't clean it and take it out a few days later? How fast are you shooting, is the barrel getting too hot? Lastly, I don't know what stock comes with that, but I'd check the action screws and see if it needs bedding. </div></div>
The stock is a Manners T4 and was actually installed by GA Precision as they did a trigger job for me. The factory stock was crap and I knew that going into it! I let the barrel get warm but not hot... I have always wondered about what is too hot but I can always touch it with the inside of my forearm so I didn't think it is getting too warm. It may just be me... I will check action screws and scope mounts and such. I am going to try to return with a reliable round cold and see, then clean the bore and see. I am not trying to take the focus of this thread away from the OP, just stating that I struggle with the OCW so far, with the Rem700 anyway. Gonna try OCW with my Savage which I seem more consistent with..at least for now! Until I know what is going on with the Rem, I won't gain anything until I find consistency somewhere with this rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was first getting started and my skills were lacking, I would use a 4 or 5 round group, keeping note of the shots I thought were bad and ignoring them for the analysis.
At some point you need to stop testing and go shooting. I picked the best load from the OCW and didn't change a thing for almost 2 years. When I came back and repeated the OCW test, the results were easier to read and pointed to the same load. Anything I missed in those 2 years was me, not the load.
DogDoc, that sounds odd. Just out of curiosity, what happens if you don't clean it and take it out a few days later? How fast are you shooting, is the barrel getting too hot? Lastly, I don't know what stock comes with that, but I'd check the action screws and see if it needs bedding. </div></div>
The stock is a Manners T4 and was actually installed by GA Precision as they did a trigger job for me. The factory stock was crap and I knew that going into it! I let the barrel get warm but not hot... I have always wondered about what is too hot but I can always touch it with the inside of my forearm so I didn't think it is getting too warm. It may just be me... I will check action screws and scope mounts and such. I am going to try to return with a reliable round cold and see, then clean the bore and see. I am not trying to take the focus of this thread away from the OP, just stating that I struggle with the OCW so far, with the Rem700 anyway. Gonna try OCW with my Savage which I seem more consistent with..at least for now! Until I know what is going on with the Rem, I won't gain anything until I find consistency somewhere with this rifle.
