Off barrel magneto mount

[Vasily]

Gentlemen,
Why is mounting the Magneto-speed off barrel such a major problem? I don't mean to sound pissed but I'm totally fed up with researching a solution for this. 3 viable options are David Tubbs, MK machining or Wiser. I bought a wiser, it cracked twice. I sent pictures to the company and they agreed it was mounted correctly. They promptly responded and sent out replacement parts. It also promptly cracked again.
MK and David Tubbs does not offer cant adjustment which of course means if your bayonet is not parallel to the barrel, one of the sensors will not read and your data is now down range. So, I'm again looking for a solution and nobody offers one that will accommodate common rifles. IE no cant adjustment for common stocked rifles.
The facts:
-Recently it has become common knowledge a chronograph provides time saving information to load development.
-Labradar has mixed reviews and will never be used on board for ELR or PRS shooting (Nothing can be on the ground)
Magneto can be mounted to the gun, once set up your done, no moving crap around for other positions or targets, and no error messages that it didn't read the shot.
-Many serious shooters use a handguard on AR platform or Chassis rifles which places the mount parallel to barrel which equals consistent reads. However, how many of us load develop and shoot rifles with stocks that do not run parallel to barrel which will not work with MK Machining or David Tubbs mounts for magneto.
-If the magneto bayonet is not mounted parallel to the barrel, one of the sensors will not read and your load development may as well be over for that session.

I've seen all the contraptions folks have cobbled together to make this work. Successfully-Myself included....and they work!....For One Particular Rifle!! That's not a solution, it's a non consistent, futile attempt to get past one hurtle. If these machinists are making these mounts they are in business to make money, but their product only caters to those with mounts parallel to barrel. Any one else that owns a much more common rifle is left behind and this leaves alot of money on the table. Seems quite obvious to me, so again my question is WHY is this such a problem? Blows my mind Magneto, now owned by I forget who, hasn't addressed this. I really rather not hear the response: Mounting the device to my barrel doesn't effect POI or change group size....you need to shoot more.

If any of you have a reasonable solution outside of gluing pvc, bending threaded rods, balancing your always moving rifle behind the bayonet or otherwise concocted late night brainstorms...I really like to hear/see them.

 

[NewsShooter]

Needed to get info on a hunting rifle, mounted it on a tripod in front of the bench, easy peasy, worked great. You could use a plate and ballhead for prone.

 

[Vasily]

Needed to get info on a hunting rifle, mounted it on a tripod in front of the bench, easy peasy, worked great. You could use a plate and ballhead for prone.

I can do the same but I need a mount that keeps everything off the ground. PRS does not allow anything on the ground. Also, do you not run the risk of missreading if bayonet is not in line? Blowing up bayonet? I'm not talking about bench rest. Thanks for your response.

 

[cgobeli]

What do you mean by parallel to the bore? I have had no issues getting my MK Machining mount "parallel" with the bore by turning the rod the bayonet is mounted to, it might be at 4o'clock, but it runs in line with the bore.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Which part(s) cracked on the Wiser? Curious because I have one but haven’t been able to use it yet.

 

[NewsShooter]

I can do the same but I need a mount that keeps everything off the ground. PRS does not allow anything on the ground. Also, do you not run the risk of missreading if bayonet is not in line? Blowing up bayonet? I'm not talking about bench rest. Thanks for your response.

So you want to shoot with your magnetospeed mounted during comps? That doesn't make any sense to me. I'm using it for load workup and getting data while practicing, no way I'd use it during a match. It wasn't hard to make sure it was in line, if I can do it anyone can.

 

[Vasily]

It's possible the MK will work but I just got off the phone with them and they said in no uncertain terms " no cant adjustment" I also, while reading your reply got a call from David Tubbs himself" Very nice he responded! He offered a solution that will need more exploring.

Take the example of mounting your MK to an angled stock like a Browning X Bolt. Will there be adequate adjustment or will I be calling for another return authorization.

 

[db2000]

So you want to shoot with your magnetospeed mounted during comps? That doesn't make any sense to me. I'm using it for load workup and getting data while practicing, no way I'd use it during a match. It wasn't hard to make sure it was in line, if I can do it anyone can.

This was my initial thought

 

[Vasily]

It

Which part(s) cracked on the Wiser? Curious because I have one but haven’t been able to use it yet.

Cracked in numerous places. It's a rather complicated mounting bracket for the bayonet. I'm sure these guys racked their brain to do this but it's plastic. Recoil from 6.5 CM and 300PRC split the plastic. The bayonet slides back n forth to get closer or further to your bore. Then it is secured in two ways. By tightening the strap and tightening a set screw on only one side. The strap is configured in such a way that the tension is always pulling the bayonet toward the bore....yeap you read that right! This is then mitigated by one little set screw on only one side of the moving plate. The vibration from recoil not only cracked the plastic but also causes the bayonet mount to can't off parallel to barrel. This is due to only one side having a set screw so the plate moves by way of least resistance. At the very least it causes one sensor to not read and in my case a destroyed bayonet. After receiving the new bayonet and new "free" Wiser parts I hit the range with my 6.5cm and I had to reshift the mount "center with barrel" to allow a consistent read. Once home I realized the mount had cracked again. If I were you I would check your bayonet's distance from bore after every shot.

 

[Vasily]

This was my initial thought

Ever make an adjustment for a poi impact only to find out the next shot would have been on. If you had readily available mv data you would have realized that one cartridge was simply under/over velocity spread. With that info you would not have made the correction and your next shot would be consistent.

 

[db2000]

Ever make an adjustment for a poi impact only to find out the next shot would have been on. If you had readily available mv data you would have realized that one cartridge was simply under/over velocity spread. With that info you would not have made the correction and your next shot would be consistent.

I get it in theory. Seems like a lot for split minute decisions during competition. That being said, if you practice with it, get used to using it and it doesn’t seem to get in the way then the more data the better possibly.

 

[Vasily]

I get it in theory. Seems like a lot for split minute decisions during competition. That being said, if you practice with it, get used to using it and it doesn’t seem to get in the way then the more data the better possibly.

Abso-freaking-lutely. But, it has many other uses. Besides, I rather not have a chrono for comp, another for bench, another for load development and yet another for different rifle set-ups. I realize nothing will be one size fits all but this is pretty common. Maybe I'm unique, but I think there are many with the same frustration. Also, get used to bigger, heavier contraptions until a scope or similar comes out with mv data readouts. This game isn't evolving into less data...quite the opposite.

 

[THEIS]

Ever make an adjustment for a poi impact only to find out the next shot would have been on. If you had readily available mv data you would have realized that one cartridge was simply under/over velocity spread. With that info you would not have made the correction and your next shot would be consistent.

Hi,

Huh???
It is not like the magneto is going to predict your next rounds MV. It is only going to tell it to you after the fact so not sure how that is to help make sure your adjustments are correct.

You may want to see how many PRS competitors time out on a stage without trying to read and manage an attached magneto.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[acudaowner]

got one have never found a reason to use it on a thicker barrel it really does not seem to change my group size or point of impact , now on a thinner barrel that could be different .

 

[Vasily]

Hi,

Huh???
It is not like the magneto is going to predict your next rounds MV. It is only going to tell it to you after the fact so not sure how that is to help make sure your adjustments are correct.

You may want to see how many PRS competitors time out on a stage without trying to read and manage an attached magneto.

Sincerely,
Theis

You are correct however, when I have a poi change. My first thoughts are: Me? Dope? Gun? Ammo? If my mv is off, I eliminate 3 other possible errors. Chances are in my favor my reloading process on that single cartridge was off. Chances are also in my favor the next one wont

 

[Vasily]

got one have never found a reason to use it on a thicker barrel it really does not seem to change my group size or point of impact , now on a thinner barrel that could be different .

Yeahp! That is definitely different. Look into how barrel tuners work

 

[Entropicitis]

Why do you need/want to run a chronograph during a match? Your ballistics solver shouldn't account for any changes in environment that would affect MV. What does that data get you?

 

[Baron23]

Labradar has mixed reviews and will never be used on board for ELR or PRS shooting (Nothing can be on the ground)

You use a chrono while shooting PRS stages? Not just to verify MV before match, but during the match. Not sure I understand this issue?

P.S. - ah, I see this is a somewhat common question in this thread. I see it was answered but I still don't quite get it, but to each their own.

Cheers

 

[Vasily]

Why do you need/want to run a chronograph during a match? Your ballistics solver shouldn't account for any changes in environment that would affect MV. What does that data get you?

Solver only is as good as info/mv plugged into it. If I record mv in a 5 shot sequence as 2650 and my 6th shot was high and the chrono read 46fps higher or 2696 than I can infer that 6th shot was an anomaly. I'm not going to change a thing and continue as usual because chances are my 7th shot will be back to 2650. Otherwise I may misdiagnose why the 6th shot was off and make an elevation change based on an anomaly that can only be corrected at the reloading bench. Changing environmental would be a mistake as would dialing elevation.

 

[Entropicitis]

Solver only is as good as info/mv plugged into it. If I record mv in a 5 shot sequence as 2650 and my 6th shot was high and the chrono read 46fps higher or 2696 than I can infer that 6th shot was an anomaly. I'm not going to change a thing and continue as usual because chances are my 7th shot will be back to 2650. Otherwise I may misdiagnose why the 6th shot was off and make an elevation change based on an anomaly that can only be corrected at the reloading bench. Changing environmental would be a mistake as would dialing elevation.

At some point you gotta just hold left edge and send it man. Turning a PRS match into a science project takes all the fun out of it. Spot your shots, if your dope seems off go diagnose it. But if you are smacking targets just go and do it.

 

[Vasily]

You use a chrono while shooting PRS stages? Not just to verify MV before match, but during the match. Not sure I understand this issue?

P.S. - ah, I see this is a somewhat common question in this thread. I see it was answered but I still don't quite get it, but to each their own.

Cheers

Forget shooting PRS. PRS takes a fraction of time compared to load development and preparing for a match. Yeah alot of talented PRS shooters probably you alike, could care less about dragging a chrono on their gun during a match. This is way off topic. At the center of my question is how to mount a magnetospeed repeatably, without movement or risk of damage to the bayonet. Mounted not only to a handguard that is parallel but also a standard stock for example that is not parallel.

Thanks for your time

 

[db2000]

Solver only is as good as info/mv plugged into it. If I record mv in a 5 shot sequence as 2650 and my 6th shot was high and the chrono read 46fps higher or 2696 than I can infer that 6th shot was an anomaly. I'm not going to change a thing and continue as usual because chances are my 7th shot will be back to 2650. Otherwise I may misdiagnose why the 6th shot was off and make an elevation change based on an anomaly that can only be corrected at the reloading bench. Changing environmental would be a mistake as would dialing elevation.

I’m not sure why your theory is so hard for others to understand. That being said, it may be because it seems so far fetched during a brutally timed competition. Most shooters are so meticulous with reloading that whatever small ES they may seem is unlikely to be a major point of contention in hits and misses....especially weighing the time it would take to process that data. Not to poo poo your enthusiasm. They laughed at the first guy trying to fly. It will take a shit load of practice, which mean ammo and time. I’d start out untimed and see if it’s even needed, meaning are your ES’s that bad??? If so that may be the easier fix.

 

[Vasily]

Well thanks for your understanding. It takes me less time to glance at my readout screen than it does to decider my bubble level. This has little to do with PRS and much more to do with mounting the bayonet to different rifle stocks that keep the bayonet parallel to the barrel

I’m not sure why your theory is so hard for others to understand. That being said, it may be because it seems so far fetched during a brutally timed competition. Most shooters are so meticulous with reloading that whatever small ES they may seem is unlikely to be a major point of contention in hits and misses....especially weighing the time it would take to process that data. Not to poo poo your enthusiasm. They laughed at the first guy trying to fly. It will take a shit load of practice, which mean ammo and time. I’d start out untimed and see if it’s even needed, meaning are your ES’s that bad??? If so that may be the easier fix.

 

[akxx]

Interesting. I have the Wiser mount and have over 3k rounds on it—over 2k with 6.5 PRC.

I actually don’t use the set screws. I find there to be sufficient friction in the mounting “bushing” that it doesn’t slide back under recoil. I’m wondering if you’d have better luck without cranking it down, but sounds like you’re done with it.

 

[Vasily]

Here is one example of parallel mounting on handguard and another pic of a rail mounted to sling swivel that you can clearly see will not mount the bayonet parallel to the barrel, due to no cant adjustment on any available system. This is what my post is in regards to.

 

[Vasily]

Interesting. I have the Wiser mount and have over 3k rounds on it—over 2k with 6.5 PRC.

I actually don’t use the set screws. I find there to be sufficient friction in the mounting “bushing” that it doesn’t slide back under recoil. I’m wondering if you’d have better luck without cranking it down, but sounds like you’re done with it.

I contacted Wiser and they were eager to help and we're interested in making things right. I sent them numerous pictures of how I ran the strap etc and they concluded it was done correctly. He also suggested not using the set screw or just lightly cinching it. I did that and wrecked the bayonet. I like the Wiser mount, it's light weight and very adjustable not to mention priced right. But two broken mounts and one blown bayonet and I'm not enthused to try it again

 

[Steel head]

I have the wiser mount, it broke the other day after tons of use.
I’m pretty sure from bouncing around in the back of the car a lot.
I glued it back together with some acetone.
Eventually I’ll make my own mount.
Its nice to run for ELR as you know if a dropped shot was speed.
I don’t tighten up either screw on it much, friction is enough.

 

[cgobeli]

Here is one example of parallel mounting on handguard and another pic of a rail mounted to sling swivel that you can clearly see will not mount the bayonet parallel to the barrel, due to no cant adjustment on any available system. This is what my post is in regards to.

I get what you are saying now about the parallel.

For what you want to do specifically with the X-bolt, I would just add some threaded holes in the side for a picatinny rail, or you are going to have to look at something custom.

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

i get what op is saying. no real perfect fit solution at the moment. and even on a parallel rail, i dont particularly like my MK setup on a long barrel (with a suppressor adding even more length). that multipiece rod and bayonet are just sort of bouncing around out there. i relented and have stopped using my MK ans just direct mount it to my cans when i run chrono.

 

[cgobeli]

i get what op is saying. no real perfect fit solution at the moment. and even on a parallel rail, i dont particularly like my MK setup on a long barrel (with a suppressor adding even more length). that multipiece rod and bayonet are just sort of bouncing around out there. i relented and have stopped using my MK ans just direct mount it to my cans when i run chrono.

Just for ease of setup I am planning on going back to direct mount to the barrel/can.

 

[strikeeagle1]

I can do the same but I need a mount that keeps everything off the ground. PRS does not allow anything on the ground. Also, do you not run the risk of missreading if bayonet is not in line? Blowing up bayonet? I'm not talking about bench rest. Thanks for your response.

$tuff happens.
Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement.
I eye balled a close alignment while the alignment rod resided peacefully at arms length away.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Many serious shooters use a handguard on AR platform or Chassis rifles which places the mount parallel to barrel which equals consistent reads. However, how many of us load develop and shoot rifles with stocks that do not run parallel to barrel which will not work with MK Machining or David Tubbs mounts for magneto.
-If the magneto bayonet is not mounted parallel to the barrel, one of the sensors will not read and your load development may as well be over for that session

Not sure this will help but it sounds like something like would work in your situation for load development, probably not so much for in-match use.

I fabricated a free floating mount system that employed and offset at adjustable point "A" pivot point that will allow the bayonet to be parallel to the rifle stock barrel as needed. The bayonet can be adjusted in 3 dimensions.

 

[Blueoval56]

Sounds like the DIY "magic arm" mount would solve your problems. Pretty cheap to make and can suit any angle, any stock. The parts can be bought off amazon and just drill and tap the QD pic mount in the front to accept the magic arm. Note, the first pic is not my rifle and this is not my idea, i found it on the internet yesterday and ordered the parts today for an off barrel mount that won't cost me hundreds of dollars because I live in Canada.

 

[Easy_E]

Its a shame sensors couldn't be installed inside a brake or suppressor ? I know shooters do fine without knowing the velocity of every shot but imagine sampling EVERY shot that come out of the rifle.

 

[Vasily]

T

Not sure this will help but it sounds like something like would work in your situation for load development, probably not so much for in-match use.

I fabricated a free floating mount system that employed and offset at adjustable point "A" pivot point that will allow the bayonet to be parallel to the rifle stock barrel as needed. The bayonet can be adjusted in 3 dimensions.View attachment 7594817View attachment 7594818

That looks really simple and effective. I like it but I don't see a way to use this on a swivel stud on a regular rifle. Handguards and chassis run parallel to the barrel already so mounts from MK, David Tubbs and Wiser work fine. It is a nice set up though

 

[Vasily]

Its a shame sensors couldn't be installed inside a brake or suppressor ? I know shooters do fine without knowing the velocity of every shot but imagine sampling EVERY shot that come out of the rifle.

I'm sure it's just a matter of time. 50 yrs ago we would scoff at alot of things we do today that are common place. MV is one very big part of the equation that must be paid close attention to. Inside a scope would be super....expect to pay big for that one

Sounds like the DIY "magic arm" mount would solve your problems. Pretty cheap to make and can suit any angle, any stock. The parts can be bought off amazon and just drill and tap the QD pic mount in the front to accept the magic arm. Note, the first pic is not my rifle and this is not my idea, i found it on the internet yesterday and ordered the parts today for an off barrel mount that won't cost me hundreds of dollars because I live in Canada.
View attachment 7594840View attachment 7594841View attachment 7594842

Lol, I gotta say it's funny looking but it probably would work as long as it stays within adjustment. Let me know how that works out. Im always a sucker for spending money just to try something

 

[Blueoval56]

I'm sure it's just a matter of time. 50 yrs ago we would scoff at alot of things we do today that are common place. MV is one very big part of the equation that must be paid close attention to. Inside a scope would be super....expect to pay big for that one

Lol, I gotta say it's funny looking but it probably would work as long as it stays within adjustment. Let me know how that works out. Im always a sucker for spending money just to try something

I’ll let ya know for sure. The arm is rated for 20lbs so it should have no problem handling the light weight of the bayonet. I’m setting it up with the QD picatinny riser so that I can either mount it at 3 or 9 o’clock on my chassis rifles or mount it on my pic rail on my traditional stocks and mount my atlas underneath it on the same mount. You can buy a swivel stud to pic rail adapter as well if your traditional stocks have a swivel stud.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Maybe a MK Machining Gen I mount would work out.

 

[Vasily]

I ha

Maybe a MK Machining Gen I mount would work out.


View attachment 7595019

I had that thought. I'll check out some vid's and maybe that will be an option. Thanks for the help.....Nice granite by the way!

 

[wheels]

Is there a reason you don't just strap it to your barrel and zero your rifle with it on, and just skip all the mounting contraptions?

 

[wheels]

Sounds like the DIY "magic arm" mount would solve your problems. Pretty cheap to make and can suit any angle, any stock. The parts can be bought off amazon and just drill and tap the QD pic mount in the front to accept the magic arm. Note, the first pic is not my rifle and this is not my idea, i found it on the internet yesterday and ordered the parts today for an off barrel mount that won't cost me hundreds of dollars because I live in Canada.
View attachment 7594840View attachment 7594841View attachment 7594842

Hey, very interested in this as well.. can you list the various items from Amazon?

 

[Vasily]

It's not repeatable to mount it with a strap. It's moved about from several rifles during load development etc. You have a fair observation given the previous discussions but my intent is to use it mostly during load development, then pull it off. I like having the option to use the chrono during a comp but this is by far, not the primary purpose. It boils down to my admiration of the portability of the Magneto-speed. It is more like an extension of the rifle. Kind of like having a radio in your car. It makes sense to me to have that critical info on board as it's telling what the ammo is doing. If you consider the variables that misplace a shot, ammo is responsible for probably 25%. I consider myself to be above average with load development and making consistent ammunition. Yet I've found with several thousand rounds I still make bad ammo from time to time. Without the aid of a chrono, one cannot ascertain if ammo production was part of the problem.

Wind is a constant threat to accurately determining first round hits. Beyond that- rifle, ammo, me or dope are the only variables. There are others but they are inconsequential with the toolsets available. Mounting the chrono to the barrel is adding another variable that is difficult to track and repeat.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Here is one example of parallel mounting on handguard and another pic of a rail mounted to sling swivel that you can clearly see will not mount the bayonet parallel to the barrel, due to no cant adjustment on any available system. This is what my post is in regards to.

OP, the Wiser mount has some cant adjustment that you access by loosening the clamp around the target-side plastic bushing, then spinning that bushing around the carbon shaft 180°. There's a little label on both sides of the bushing, one says "+1.5°" and the other says "-1.5°". By spinning the target-side bushing, you end up with both bushings on the "+1.5°" setting, which makes my MS bayonet pretty darn parallel to the barrel in my stock B14 HMR. I think the stock in your pic has a more aggressive forend cant, but it might get you pretty close.

 

[Vasily]

OP, the Wiser mount has some cant adjustment that you access by loosening the clamp around the target-side plastic bushing, then spinning that bushing around the carbon shaft 180°. There's a little label on both sides of the bushing, one says "+1.5°" and the other says "-1.5°". By spinning the target-side bushing, you end up with both bushings on the "+1.5°" setting, which makes my MS bayonet pretty darn parallel to the barrel in my stock B14 HMR. I think the stock in your pic has a more aggressive forend cant, but it might get you pretty close.

Thanks, I'll measure the angle, but this looks like maybe 3-5 degree. David Tubbs Mount has 2 bars that can rotate. He suggested bending one bar and then rotating it to the correct angle. What's a couple hundred more? I've only just begun trying to accurately mount a Magneto for 3 yrs now

 

[Simonsza1]

I’m so confused! Is there anyone on this earth that actually has and successfully uses a magnetospeed while actively running a prs stage? I honestly thought the beginning of this post was a joke! Is it still a joke? Am I having a nightmare? Did Biden win the election? So much stupid shit going on these days! I’m so glad I live out in the mountains. People are so lost it’s insane. Just saying!

 

[Fig]

If you show up in my squad with a MS bayonet attached to your A-bolt I'm going straight to the match director and asking to be re-squaded. Being brand new and never having shot a match mixed with ignoring the advice of experienced marksmen is a recipe for disaster. I could not focus on the targets while watching you, and I would feel unsafe taking my eyes off you for a moment.

 

[Rob01]

Hell no! I would love to have him in my squad to watch that train wreck and get a good chuckle every stage when he times out after three shots. LOL

 

[Blueoval56]

Hey, very interested in this as well.. can you list the various items from Amazon?

Go to this YouTube video and read the description in the video, it has Amazon links to the parts required and also a link to a different forum where he talks about the steps required along with pictures.

 

[Fig]

Hell no! I would love to have him in my squad to watch that train wreck and get a good chuckle every stage when he times out after three shots. LOL

I want to see him stick the rifle through a small barricade hole under time pressure with that bayonet attached. And I though busting scope caps was a waste of money.

 

[Blueoval56]

I can understand the thought process of wanting to have it mounted most of time for reasons he mentioned, but I agree that I think it would be a mess in PRS because of the amount of movement and time constraints. I’ve seen videos of David Tubb shooting ELR matches with his magnetospeed attached full time with his mounting system and in an interview he cited pretty much the same reasons, but in that type of match you’re just prone and not moving around.