Off hand or Awful hand

[Hi-Wall]

Does anybody just stand up and shoot anymore? I realize I am blessed to have my own ranges on my property, (I planned for my shooting in retirement), so I can conveniently walk out and shoot. So perhaps public ranges aren't conducive to off hand shooting.
My easiest way to get some trigger time is to walk 50 yards to my gravel pad facing a pair of 80 yard rails. On one of them I have ten steel prairie dog targets, above that rail I have ten four inch diamonds. A typical session is to grab a box of 50 rounds of low mediocre ammo such as Aguila Super Extra, or Auto Match. I warm up on a 6" swinger for 5 rounds then go on to the prairie dogs. I finish with the diamonds.
To be completely frank, I average 70%. If I shoot 3 times a week or more I can nudge that up closer to 80%. I am 66 years old and I find that shooting more often keeps my arm strength up. When I shoot with friends they want to play rifle games that allow rest shooting as they get quickly frustrated with what they call "Awful Hand."
I do not own a bipod and do not anticipate buying one. I also play with some geezer bench based ELR .22 out to 400 yards, but until I find my self getting bored with perfect off hand scores, (hasn't happened yet), I'll stick with standing up until I can't any longer.
I'll appreciate hearing the thoughts of others.

 

[natdscott]

Search bar.

Here:

Advanced Marksmanship - What is considered good offhand accuracy at 100 yds?

What is considered excellent?

www.snipershide.com

..and my personal fave:

PRS Talk - Can we stop shooting offhand in PRS?

I have shot a bunch of matches with an Offhand stage, not my favorite to say the least. What do you guys think?

www.snipershide.com

 

[FredBart]

I consider off hand shooting ( without a shooting coat) the most challenging rifle sport. Minimizing the wobble zone with proper trigger and breath control is difficult. I see many shooters with high dollar bench rests comparing accuracy in 1/16th inch increments and I wonder why. There are many aspects of our sport, but I believe that stand up off hand is the pinnacle of shooting.

 

[natdscott]

H

I consider off hand shooting ( without a shooting coat) the most challenging rifle sport. Minimizing the wobble zone with proper trigger and breath control is difficult. I see many shooters with high dollar bench rests comparing accuracy in 1/16th inch increments and I wonder why. There are many aspects of our sport, but I believe that stand up off hand is the pinnacle of shooting.

It’s because they wonder why you would spend time shooting 3 Minute groups standing up, because the chase of “zero” groups is the pinnacle of shooting.

And that’s okay.

 

[littlepod]

Offhand shooting is very challenging and I'm terrible at it. I also don't enjoy practicing it that much. I guess mainly I shoot NRL22 and out of the 50 shots in a given match, usually about 3 are standing offhand. Kneeling and Prone unsupported offhand I'm fine, but standing I'm just atrocious. I cannot get bone on bone support properly when standing, and yes my rifle is heavy to keep it nice and balanced to shoot small targets off barricades.

Also I like the variety of the barricade shooting as there are many different props to use than just doing the same thing (unsupported standing).

 

[steve123]

At my buds place we shoot offhand nearly every Wednesday. BUT we also shoot off bipods and bags, and mostly off the bench because the rest of my gang are in their late 60's to late 70's. I'm the young gun at 60 . Since I'm the youngest I'm the one that has to hike all the way up a steep cinder hill to paint the targets, poor me, lol.
We shoot a lot of 22 pistols and air rifles at 10M in offhand. That helps keep the skills reasonably tuned up. Oft times I'll get the high score in NRL22 when a stage involves offhand so weekly practice does help.
I think to be really good at offhand you need to shoot every other day at least.

A well rounded marksman requires skills in all aspects of riflery IMHO, so you should try a bipod too.

The older I get the more I suck at PRS type stuff, part of that is age, low energy, and poor eyesight, but I'm too lazy to practice and just don't want to spend the money in travel, match fee's, etc, like I used to. It's gotten expensive! Just venting....

 

[Jefe's Dope]

We do in some of the PRS comps (.22lr). We hate it. We need to practice much more. As much as I hate it, it's a fundamental skill we all need to be competent at.

 

[justin amateur]

If I'm hunting, it may be off hand, but I'm braced on something.
Tree, fence post, shooting stick, as it is necessary to ensure a clean kill.
So I don't practice any other way.
Rule number one...hit what you aim at.

If I'm at the range for trigger time, I'll attempt any format,
even if it is embarrassing to my sense of superiority.

 

[Teuchter Boy]

I shoot a lot of bunnies off hand out to fifty odd yards as I like to do a walk about before I settle down with a bipod. My Anschutz 1416 is a very small and light rifle and with a 14 inch barrel very pointable so I generally hit what I aim at within my self imposed limits. I do practice from time to time but I am aware of my limitations and things tend to go south real quick past fifty yards. I tried shooting sticks but I couldn't get on with them so back to freehand shooting when doing a walk about. Worth practicing as if nothing else it is a good excuse to get out shooting, albeit it can be frustrating as no bipod or sticks to blame.......

 

[rick137]

Shooting standing offhand is the name of my game. In terms of support it is at the opposite end of the spectrum from rail gun and unlimited benchrest shooting. There is the maximum amount of contact between your body and the rifle. When you are in the zone, the rifle feels like an extension of your body, all the surfaces of contact feel right, the rifle wants to steadily point at the bullseye.

In dance terms the difference between square dancing and the tango.

The attached is the target for my COF, 3x10. The outer diameter of the disks are 4.0 MOA appropriate to 46yd, the actual distance of the 50yd target stand +/- 1yd. The inner disk is 1.00 MOA. When I can keep all 30 shots within the 4.0 MOA disk will replace with a target having 3.0 MOA out diameter disks. I have gotten close but no cigar yet.

 

[steyrsteyrsteyr]

Yes, a lot do; smallbore silhouette. Very addictive and requires very little.

 

[ma smith]

Rifle designs have "evolved" ... and eliminated the offhand support positions...in alot of cases

 

[natdscott]

Shooting standing offhand is the name of my game. In terms of support it is at the opposite end of the spectrum from rail gun and unlimited benchrest shooting. There is the maximum amount of contact between your body and the rifle. When you are in the zone, the rifle feels like an extension of your body, all the surfaces of contact feel right, the rifle wants to steadily point at the bullseye.

In dance terms the difference between square dancing and the tango.

The attached is the target for my COF, 3x10. The outer diameter of the disks are 4.0 MOA appropriate to 46yd, the actual distance of the 50yd target stand +/- 1yd. The inner disk is 1.00 MOA. When I can keep all 30 shots within the 4.0 MOA disk will replace with a target having 3.0 MOA out diameter disks. I have gotten close but no cigar yet.

Recommend you stay on the 4 MOA until you can’t miss it.

Recommend you move in 1/2 MOA increments, especially given the white aiming center.

 

[Hi-Wall]

Having posted here I got a little fired up so I shot yesterday with my Kidd 10-22 and managed 70%. Today I took the 513-T, it has no where near as nice of a trigger as the two stage kid, but it "hangs" better.
I only had 3 cups of coffee and I tried to empty my mind. I must say I had one of my best days. I missed the first P-dog. Spun the next one to about a 45 degree angle and was a bit disgusted with myself. I bore down and ran the next 14 knock downs in a row. I have never had more than 7 in a row before. 10 prairie dogs followed by four 4" diamonds. The 20 targets cost me 25 shots and I was just pleased as could be.

 

[natdscott]

Rifle designs have "evolved" ... and eliminated the offhand support positions...in alot of cases

Describe and support?

 

[ma smith]

Describe and support?

Look at biathlon rifles for example (notice the offhand support position):

 

[ma smith]

Now, lets look at a modern/PRS rifle...evolution of chassis design
Functional Intent:

Relative changes vs Original design

Notice the introduction of negative space to allow for barricade/tripod mounting solutions...

 

[Ravenworks]

Look at biathlon rifles for example (notice the offhand support position):

Yup that is how the corp taught us to shoot (1980), tuck that left elbow in on top of the hip bone.
Proper sling use makes it easy.

 

[natdscott]

Notice the introduction of negative space to allow for barricade/tripod mounting solutions...

Nope.

Grab the mag and/or magwell between your ring and middle fingers, bottom of the mag in your palm.

BTDT.

It’s not like ye olde 700 hunting rifle is that awesome for Offhand. But we can make it work pretty okay, if we try.

 

[natdscott]

And for the record, Silo and Biathlon shooters only do that stupid shit with their fingers because their rifle is regulated on drop at the belly. They do pretty well, but trust me, if they could/can get it on a palm or knuckle, they would.

 

[ma smith]

Nope.

Sako and AI were designed by competitive shooters
...the magazine wells originally were covered...

Pics don't lie

 

[ma smith]

Tha's why I used the accuracy obsession modification for the A/B test image

 

[natdscott]

Then shoot off the bottom of the mag.

My point here is that you CAN find a workable Offhand solution to almost every rifle except railguns and heavy weapons.

 

[Hi-Wall]

Then shoot off the bottom of the mag.

My point here is that you CAN find a workable Offhand solution to almost every rifle except railguns and heavy weapons.

True, but why as shooters do the majority of us seem to avoid shooting off hand?
Certainly I do not shoot at living animals from off hand, but by practice shooting off hand when I lean on a tree to shoot a squirrel, or deer, or rabbit the shots seem comparatively easy.
Reactive steel targets feel no pain as the result of our errors, but I do enjoy the immediate feedback more than counting scoring rings on paper.
I am gratified to see this much interest among shooters here. This forum seems to reinforce the concept of a nation of riflemen.
I encourage more shooters to spend more time shooting standing up, unsupported, no sling or shooting coats. I believe if you do, you will become a better shot and certainly take pride in your well earned ability.

 

[NewsShooter]

I like shooting offhand, but then I shot match 22 stuff as a kid. Hunted pretty much everyday with a pellet gun or 22 when I was in high school.

 

[rick137]

True, but why as shooters do the majority of us seem to avoid shooting off hand?
Certainly I do not shoot at living animals from off hand, but by practice shooting off hand when I lean on a tree to shoot a squirrel, or deer, or rabbit the shots seem comparatively easy.
Reactive steel targets feel no pain as the result of our errors, but I do enjoy the immediate feedback more than counting scoring rings on paper.
I am gratified to see this much interest among shooters here. This forum seems to reinforce the concept of a nation of riflemen.
I encourage more shooters to spend more time shooting standing up, unsupported, no sling or shooting coats. I believe if you do, you will become a better shot and certainly take pride in your well earned ability.

@Hi-Wall:

Perhaps one is the physical effort required. I am slightly sweating after 30 shots standing offhand with a single shot rifle. Presumably not as much as a PRS match but a damn sight more than sitting at a bench with rifle supported by bipod and rear bag. Second is the groups are not one ragged hole. Often disappointingly and even embarrassingly large. Third, as pointed out by @ma smith, the geometry of rifles with DBM bottom metal and magazines protruding below the stock/chassis is less suited to standing offhand shooting than rifles with BDL bottom metal where the contact surface is a smooth curve. At least that is my observation. One workaround was to have a palm swell made for the bottom of the magazine.

 

[Hi-Wall]

Well this morning I went old school and took out a BSA "Famous 12" with Parker Hale receiver and globe sights, the barrel is marked 220 Long. The front is a tiny pin head. At 66 I still don't wear glasses except "cheaters" for reading and the computer, but I can tell my visual acuity is not what it once was.
Again the range was 80 yards, the targets are 4" squares welded to inverted T bases so they appear as diamonds. Ammo was Wolf Match Target, (German made.) I managed 7 of 10 so not a lot different than when I use a 6X or 18X scope. I really did not feel the irons were a handicap. If the pinhead had white paint under it when the firing pin dropped, so did the target.
We are experiencing a beautiful streak of unseasonably warm weather and I thought I may as well take advantage of it. It is about to change for the worse.