Official (DTA) SRS, HTI, Covert, Hunter Thread

[generalzip]

I am not trying to get off topic. How many Gens are there for the SRS? Whats the differances?

2-3 depending what way you look at it

Gen 1 the "original"

Gen 2- upgraded pin system that holds the barrel extension in place. Went from a tapered to a round bolt handle

A1- gen 2 upgrades plus a removable rail system, soft recoil pad and adjustable cheek riser.

Did I miss anything?


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[mouse07410]

I've heard that A1 can take both Gen1 and Gen2 barrels (barrel extensions). I've only Gen1, so can't verify myself.


Mouse
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[orkan]

That is not accurate, to my knowledge. You can put a GenII barrel in a GenI chassis, albeit not having anything to really "time" the barrel on other than the bolt. You cannot put a Gen1 barrel (small pin) in an SRS-A1 chassis, as it is a "genII" barrel setup.

 

[orkan]

24" 308,260& 6.5 CM light to medium Palma contours

Close. They are all 26" with a 6.5CM, 308, and 22-243win.

 

[Q-Unit]

Close. They are all 26" with a 6.5CM, 308, and 22-243win.

Orkan, How much less do those profiles weigh compared to their factory counterparts?

 

[Dogtown]

For clarity, the Gen 1 barrel extension has a small grove cut into it that indexes off of a small pin in front of the feed ramp. The Gen 2 version has a large notch cut out of the front of it that allows it to index directly off the feed ramp itself, which is far more robust than the previous version.

 

[orkan]

Dogtown, that "gen1" in the picture is a gen2. Both of those pictured are Gen2's. Here's a gen1:

Q-unit, they weigh basically the same as DTA's. Contour is virtually identical. Mine aren't fluted, so they may be a few ounces heavier.

We do "predator" profiles as well, as you see in the front on the 22-243 barrel with YHM QD mount on it. That sucker is liiiiiiiight!

 

[Dogtown]

Nice catch - that was the only image I could find that remotely looked like the Gen 1 (my rifle is at the smith). At least what I wrote was correct

 

[PRDRIVER]

That is not accurate, to my knowledge. You can put a GenII barrel in a GenI chassis, albeit not having anything to really "time" the barrel on other than the bolt. You cannot put a Gen1 barrel (small pin) in an SRS-A1 chassis, as it is a "genII" barrel setup.

This is correct. A Gen 1 Chassis will accept Gen 1 and Gen 2 Barrel Extensions. The Gen 2 Chassis (which is what the A1 uses) will not accept a Gen 1 Chassis.

The Gen 2 design is a little more robust, though I have never personally seen a Gen 1 system have an issue with the indexing pin.

 

[biffj]

I've seen a couple guys who hamfisted their barrels in place or dropped them and broke the pin. It took a few minute to explain how to replace it.....it was easier to just do it with one guy as his english was not very good. Otherwise I'd say nearly 4 years of demos with my rifle and barrel swaps between 4 barrels have proven the gen 1 is fine for those who care.

Just tested a new suppressor this eve for a buddys rifle. His is a gen 1 338LM but I tested the can at midnight and a half in the backyard with 338BR subsonics. Just fired a couple rounds to make sure all was clear and it didn't even wake up the dogs across the road. Worked great and I think he'll be happy with it. I did end up waking the doggies when I inadvertently slammed the shop door when I headed up to the house. . .


Frank

 

[Aflac]

Well I just got a picture of my rifle from the cerakote guy. We had a slight misunderstanding on exactly what I wanted on it so he is going to keep it an extra week and make some changes but I figured I would share what it looks like right now with you guys.


The pattern on the rifle is going to be reversed so its Black and grey inside the hexagons instead of outside and the scope will be more FDE and less black. Ill post pictures when its all done too.

 

[Q-Unit]

Well I just got a picture of my rifle from the cerakote guy. We had a slight misunderstanding on exactly what I wanted on it so he is going to keep it an extra week and make some changes but I figured I would share what it looks like right now with you guys.
View attachment 18016

The pattern on the rifle is going to be reversed so its Black and grey inside the hexagons instead of outside and the scope will be more FDE and less black. Ill post pictures when its all done too.

Who did that and how much did they want to do it? Looks good.

 

[Aflac]

Who did that and how much did they want to do it? Looks good.

its Metal EFX https://www.facebook.com/MetalEfx they wanted 275 for the whole thing.

 

[MikeD987]

Off topic but I tried to search and couldn't find anything about what's everyone shooting with as far as ammo since DTA doesn't have any in stock. What works great for you all? Brand/Gr.

 

[BLDTYLRY]

I roll my own.

 

[Q-Unit]

That's a good price. Their work looks top notch. I book marked their website. Thanks!

 

[sib1948]

Off topic but I tried to search and couldn't find anything about what's everyone shooting with as far as ammo since DTA doesn't have any in stock. What works great for you all? Brand/Gr.

In 308 22" I use SMK HPBT in 168 & 175 gr. In 260 26" I use Rem 260 BTSP in 140gr. In 338 LM 26" I prefer S&B HPBT over Hornady. Just starting to reload myself, but have heard at least in 338 LM, there can be issues with the Hornady brass with Lapua brass being the best. Can't vouch for that myself, but have seen it mentioned several times on different Forums.

By the way, have been absolutely loving my DTA SRS A1 without a single issue other than learning the bolt needs to be cocked when replacing it in the chassis after swapping the 308 with the 338 LM barrel. (easy to do by hand) I love the fit and balance of this platform for me and my shooting needs. In the process of liquidating my single caliber custom rifles and redundant scopes. No "safe queens" at my house. Good Shooting!

 

[Aflac]

That's a good price. Their work looks top notch. I book marked their website. Thanks!

Yeah I really like the rifle that is on their cover picture on their Facebook page, I just couldn't paint my srs orange.

Edit: they updated their cover photo so this post is no longer valid....But it was a really cool black grey and orange rifle.

 

[MikeD987]

In 308 22" I use SMK HPBT in 168 & 175 gr. In 260 26" I use Rem 260 BTSP in 140gr. In 338 LM 26" I prefer S&B HPBT over Hornady. Just starting to reload myself, but have heard at least in 338 LM, there can be issues with the Hornady brass with Lapua brass being the best. Can't vouch for that myself, but have seen it mentioned several times on different Forums.

By the way, have been absolutely loving my DTA SRS A1 without a single issue other than learning the bolt needs to be cocked when replacing it in the chassis after swapping the 308 with the 338 LM barrel. (easy to do by hand) I love the fit and balance of this platform for me and my shooting needs. In the process of liquidating my single caliber custom rifles and redundant scopes. No "safe queens" at my house. Good Shooting!

Awesome! Counting the days/weeks for mine!

 

[bas402]

Been thinking of another caliber set up for my SRS, I love my 6.5 Creedmoors, 260, 308's, and my 7WSM. Of all of these I like the 260 & 7WSM the most so I have been doing some reading and talking to some folks about trying to combine the best of both and have settled on the 6.5 SAUM. I know that there will be some brass prep but not to much and availability of brass could be an issue but so is 7WSM but it's possible if you look and possible longer bbl life but that's still debatable to some. Anyway my question to all of you is anyone running one? What twist and bbl length should I look at and if you are running this caliber in your DTA what issues or areas should I be concerned with.
Sully

 

[generalzip]

Just got back from the range and had some solid groups then horrible ones with the 16" .308 barrel. It's a brand new barrel with about 60 rounds through so I'm hoping it was just copper buildup. I drenched it in solvent and ran a bore snake through so hopefully that helps. When I took the bolt out I noticed this

That is a circular dent on the bolt face essentially around where the primer would be. I have a feeling that shouldn't be there...can some with over 100 round through their dta look and see if they have this circular dent?


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[orkan]

I can't quite see from that picture what you are referring to ... but I'm pretty sure all new bolts have bushed firing pins. That's likely what you are seeing.

 

[generalzip]

I can't quite see from that picture what you are referring to ... but I'm pretty sure all new bolts have bushed firing pins. That's likely what you are seeing.

Around the firing pin hole there is a primer size ring that is dents. Almost as if the outside of the primer dented the bolt face


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[Dogtown]

What bullet are you shooting through your .308 covert barrel? My initial testing showed that it favors heavier bullets, with 175SMKs grouping 1/2MOA but struggling a bit with 155 Scenars, for example. Keep in mind it has a fast 1:8 twist too.

 

[generalzip]

What bullet are you shooting through your .308 covert barrel? My initial testing showed that it favors heavier bullets, with 175SMKs grouping 1/2MOA but struggling a bit with 155 Scenars, for example. Keep in mind it has a fast 1:8 twist too.

I'm shooting 175 smk with 44 grains of varget behind it. Tried 43 grains too. Federal brass and cci br2 primers. Loaded to 2.81. I just loaded a few out to 2.18 and will see how they shoot tonight. Hopefully it was just copper fouling but I didn't see a ton of blue come out of the barrel so I'm nervous


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[generalzip]

Also is this typical wear you guys see?

I've noticed some powdered/flakes metal from one of the rear lugs. If imagine it's just breaking in but the idea of metal wearing that much kind of scares me haha


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[orkan]

That wear is perfectly normal.

 

[generalzip]

Just took it out again. Using a variety of fgmm and hand loads using premium components I made, I got maybe 1 out of 7 groups that were under .5 moa. Needless to say I'm pretty displeased with the performance of my 4800 dollar rifle considering I had a stock 700 sps varmint that easily outshot this dta. I hate to whine and call warranty and have to deal with the whole mess but at this point I can't help but feel I'm just out 4800 bucks.

I'm very capable of holding to .5 minute groups especially considering I was on a bench using an atlas and rear bag. What would you guys do in my situation. I tried cleaning with both copper and carbon solvent twice but to not avail. Let the barrel cool and everything. Prolly put about 90 rounds through it trying to find something that would work and made 3 separate trips to the range to tweak hand loads. Frustration has definitely set in haha


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[BLDTYLRY]

Sounds like you are just having a bad day shooting. Did you happen to bring another rifle or conversion kit to shoot to confirm it's not you?

 

[generalzip]

I didn't bring another gun with me but I can generally feel and instantly know if I pulled a shot. My position was very stable and I was still getting erratic flyers for no apparent reason. Their age this morning started picking up so I blamed it on that and possible copper fouling initially. Went later with 0 mirage and a clean barrel but it didn't help much. It printed a couple very good groups ~.25-.3 inch but the vast majority were in the .75-1 inch camp. I'm using a mark 6 with amd mount so I wonder if either of those are the culprit. Although I've used the scope on my larue and it seems to have no issues. Maybe my gun just doesn't like 175 gr smk? I find that hard to believe as it's shot well in literally every .308 I've shot


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[orkan]

You might not want to publicly condemn the rifle just yet. From the sounds of it, you have next to zero prior experience with DTA's. It's not exactly the same as shooting a rem700 sps. Try to slow down, adhere to the fundamentals, and shoot confidently. I know it can be frustrating when rounds don't fall where they should. Remember, there are far more 1/2 MOA shooters on the internet, than there are in the real world. It takes remarkable discipline to perform to that level every time out.

We may be able to help, but you'll need to start getting specific. Exact group sizes, with the specific ammo being tested. You said you tried 44gr varget, and 43. Did you actually do load development, or did you dump some in there and give it a go?

Shooting off a bench using a bipod, even as good as the atlas is, still takes a tremendous amount of skill. Especially with rigid systems such as DTA rifles. Get on the ground, get straight behind the rifle, and adhere to the fundamentals. Report back with specific ammo used and group sizes. Pictures of ammo and group size would go a long way.

 

[coldboremiracle]

This^, it takes a little bit to get used to. Give it some practice.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Just got back from the range and had some solid groups then horrible ones with the 16" .308 barrel. It's a brand new barrel with about 60 rounds through so I'm hoping it was just copper buildup. I drenched it in solvent and ran a bore snake through so hopefully that helps. When I took the bolt out I noticed this

That is a circular dent on the bolt face essentially around where the primer would be. I have a feeling that shouldn't be there...can some with over 100 round through their dta look and see if they have this circular dent?


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Yes mine looks the same, its the bushing.

 

[generalzip]

So here's some pics. I tried to focus on mostly the good groups but there's also some big ones in there. Here some fgmm

Here's some 44 grain varget with 175 smk

43 grain varget same bullet

Note that some of the 44 gr varget loads were at different oal. Some 2.81 some 2.82. I didn't mark which ones were which. After measuring some of the groups it appears the gun can shoot but I have a hard time believing I'm THAT inconsistent considering every other rifle I shoot I'm pretty consistent in my abilities. Maybe you guys are right and I'm just not used to the dta and need a lot more practice. I'm gonna practice a lot more dry firing drills with my snap caps in hopes to improve. There were some other targets I didn't bring home that probably measured in the 1 moa-.75 moa area tops




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[generalzip]

What ill do is reload some of the once fired brass and resize the neck only and see if I can get any better performance that way. If anyone out there has some loads worked up for the 16" .308 covert barrel please share


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[orkan]

It seems your reloads exhibit vertical stringing, where as FGMM does not.

I didn't see if you answered my question above: Have you actually done load development for this rifle? (OCW or ladder)

 

[generalzip]

I tried to work up a load with what I currently have (varget, tac and 175 smk). I started at 43 grains as I'm not really willing to go any less due to velocity reasons and I'd rather switch powders than go lower with varget. I also adjusted oal from 2.81 to 2.82. I also have some 240 gr smk that I was planning on saving for subs but with the 1-8 twist barrel do you think they are worth a shot? Should I go further than 2.82 for oal? I've only been reloading for about a year so I'm not an expert by any means which is why I keep thee fgmm in the mix to compare with. Next time I'm out I'll certainly label the targets better to ensure they are accurate.

Do you guys have any suggestions? I'd imagine other covert owners have worked up loads that should work about the same rifle to rifle considering they are the same barrels machines by the same people


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[Aflac]

Have you heard of the Optimal Barrel Time paper? Its very similar to the OCW but is a little more predictive. I just ran your numbers in quick load....I dont have your exact bullet length and maximum case capacity and all that stuff but just a run through using the default info for your set up gave me a barrel time of 0.911ms with the accuracy nodes per the OBT theory being 0.882ms and 0.958ms, so if thats accurate that would put you exactly at the least accurate part of the cycle.

 

[generalzip]

Have you heard of the Optimal Barrel Time paper? Its very similar to the OCW but is a little more predictive. I just ran your numbers in quick load....I dont have your exact bullet length and maximum case capacity and all that stuff but just a run through using the default info for your set up gave me a barrel time of 0.911ms with the accuracy nodes per the OBT theory being 0.882ms and 0.958ms, so if thats accurate that would put you exactly at the least accurate part of the cycle.

Very interesting.... Anyone seek have experience with this?

Aflac does it have example loads to match up with the barrel time?


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[Aflac]

Very interesting.... Anyone seek have experience with this?

Aflac does it have example loads to match up with the barrel time?


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if you are interested in this theory I would suggest reading this paper
Optimal Barrel Time Concept

that theory in conjunction with quick time is in theory a great way to target your load testing. so far for me the farthest my best groups have been from the predicted load has been 0.4 grains and with the varget it was right on.

 

[Aflac]

but my quick look at it...which is by no means guaranteed and i would not suggest loading off of it without running your own numbers, but it showed to get to the faster node you would need to go up about a grain and would be over pressured and to get to the slower one you would need to go down about a grain and a half. but DO NOT trust these numbers without running them yourself.

 

[generalzip]

but my quick look at it...which is by no means guaranteed and i would not suggest loading off of it without running your own numbers, but it showed to get to the faster node you would need to go up about a grain and would be over pressured and to get to the slower one you would need to go down about a grain and a half. but DO NOT trust these numbers without running them yourself.

Down 1.5 from 44 grains? Can't hurt to try 42.5 grains and see how that shoots bill also experiment with loading the oal longer. Maybe to 2.83. I'll see if it touches the rifling or not


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[orkan]

I'd imagine other covert owners have worked up loads that should work about the same rifle to rifle considering they are the same barrels machines by the same people.

This is as far from the truth as anything could be. Each barrel is it's own entity.

Do you guys have any suggestions?

At this point, after reading your last posts, I'm not sure what help I'll be. If I be honest with you, it will likely just turn you hostile, given your repeated affirmations that you know what you're doing. I'll leave the door open for those with more subtlety than myself.

 

[generalzip]

Orlando I think I know what you are getting bat and I understand. I just got the gun a week ago and have not done any really load development. It's been to the range 3 times. I guess this is what I frustration comes from. Every .308 rifle I've shot could take 175 grain fgmm and put 3 rounds in under 3/4 inches at 100. I guess my frustration comes from not being able to do that with this dta. That is stupid only part as this 16" 1-8 twist barrel is a completely other animal from anything I've ever used before. I guess what I was really looking for was whether or not people have had luck running something other than the 175 and 178 projectiles that are commonly used. I didn't know if with the 1-8 inch twist people are having more luck with 190 grain bullets or higher


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[generalzip]

Orkan I think I know what you are getting bat and I understand. I just got the gun a week ago and have not done any really load development. It's been to the range 3 times. I guess this is what I frustration comes from. Every .308 rifle I've shot could take 175 grain fgmm and put 3 rounds in under 3/4 inches at 100. I guess my frustration comes from not being able to do that with this dta. That is stupid only part as this 16" 1-8 twist barrel is a completely other animal from anything I've ever used before. I guess what I was really looking for was whether or not people have had luck running something other than the 175 and 178 projectiles that are commonly used. I didn't know if with the 1-8 inch twist people are having more luck with 190 grain bullets or higher


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[orkan]

All coverts I've tested run 175SMK's perfectly well. 220SMK's subsonic produce sub-moa groups, just as they do at full speed.

Realize the size and weight distribution of the rifle you're dealing with. Do you think that might have a bearing on how well you can deploy it?

 

[reximus]

By the way, have been absolutely loving my DTA SRS A1 without a single issue other than learning the bolt needs to be cocked when replacing it in the chassis after swapping the 308 with the 338 LM barrel. (easy to do by hand) I love the fit and balance of this platform for me and my shooting needs. In the process of liquidating my single caliber custom rifles and redundant scopes. No "safe queens" at my house. Good Shooting!

I'm glad you're still loving the gun! Makes me happy to see you so happy with it. I'm glad that it ended up in such a good home where it gets such good use! I'm glad we were able to get you all edumucated and squared away with the bolt cocking. You're well on your way to being a SRS pro!

Happy shooting!

 

[mouse07410]

[MENTION=20064]orkan[/MENTION], in your forum (your post of Aug 15, 2012 when you were challenged to prove that your SRS review was not based on a just one rifle) you proved your point by posting a photo of several DTA SRS rifles. One of those was a black SRS with DTA old butt-pad, and with some added soft recoil pad or something.

This is what my question is about: since it is unclear when DTA would be able to release the new butt-pad, I'd like to know what recoil pad you attached to it, how did you affix it so it doesn't seem to fall off, how much it costs, and whether I could buy it. And of course, since you have experience with the new SRS A1 as well - how does that recoil pad compares to the new soft butt-pad of A1?

 

[orkan]

I don't recall the brand name of the pad we screwed on there. It was a "grind to fit" style, which had a hard plastic plate on the front of it. We simply used the existing DTA recoil pad as a guide to drill a couple holes through the add-on pad, then used the existing cap screws to fix it in place. Plenty solid.

And of course, since you have experience with the new SRS A1 as well - how does that recoil pad compares to the new soft butt-pad of A1?

The recoil pad we added to that rifle absolutely sucks compared to the new A1 recoil pad. One of the key design features of the SRS is the recoil pad which comes up ABOVE the centerline of bore, allowing your shoulder to get good purchase exactly where it needs to be in order to receive the recoil effectively. The add on pad was better than the meat tenderizer the SRS shipped with... but violated some of the core features which make the SRS so accurate. That customer ran with it, but later took it off.

The new A1 pad allows me to lay down and run as much 338LM as I want, without injury. It's awesome. The old style pad put a permanent lump on my clavicle that is still there today. Good training though right? Conditioning the mind and body... right? lol No, the new pad saved my life I think.

 

[orkan]

How about some DTA-specific databook pages? Ever since I started running a DTA back in 2010, I have been struggling with figuring out how to log everything properly without having separate books for each conversion. All the data needs to be in one place in order to effectively take advantage of it.

It's late, and I'm tired of staring at these things, so if you find some errors or something you think needs to be added, let me know. The idea being, to be able to run your zero's from any conversion without having to go back to a baseline zero in between. On the info page, you select a base conversion to zero. Then you shoot all other conversions and log their zero's in the "zero to" fields. Then on each individual barrel page, you can calculate the adjustment required when coming "from zero" based on the barrel you have in the rifle.

If anyone needs more explanation, I'll have to take a picture of some in completed form. Click to pull up pdf.





The rest of the databook pages I've created are here:
Primal Rights ? View topic - Databook Pages