Official (DTA) SRS, HTI, Covert, Hunter Thread

[Abq-Defense]

338Freak,

It sounds like you have proved the problem isn't with the can. IF the groups are the same with, and without the can, it isn't the problem.

Your 6.5 shoots fine, so there isn't a problem with the chassis or trigger. That leaves the 338 bolt or barrel. With an accuracy issue, the barrel is the suspect.

You have tried different bullets. Which powders have you tried with the 338? If you tried Retumbo or H1000, I think the barrel is the issue.

 

[RaptorFuel]

Just placed my order. Anyone have recommendations on 6.5 CM dies? I haven't reloaded in over 3 years and it feels like I'm relearning it all over again.

Also, what size Pelican does the soft case fit in?

 

[338FREAK]

338Freak,

It sounds like you have proved the problem isn't with the can. IF the groups are the same with, and without the can, it isn't the problem.

Your 6.5 shoots fine, so there isn't a problem with the chassis or trigger. That leaves the 338 bolt or barrel. With an accuracy issue, the barrel is the suspect.

You have tried different bullets. Which powders have you tried with the 338? If you tried Retumbo or H1000, I think the barrel is the issue.

I've tried H-1000, Retumbo, RL-22, IMR-4350 all with similar groups. IMR-4350 being the best. Even my pet load from my other .338's didnt shoot well.

Thanks for your input I just want to rule out everything possible before sending the barrel back. I think they may have received a bad blank.

 

[338FREAK]

Just placed my order. Anyone have recommendations on 6.5 CM dies? I haven't reloaded in over 3 years and it feels like I'm relearning it all over again.

Also, what size Pelican does the soft case fit in?

As for the dies I hate to say this as I am a Die hard RCBS fan I really like the Hornady dies better as far as the 6.5. CM is concerned. I have switched 3 of my calibers now from RCBS to Hornady dies since I have tried them.

 

[Abq-Defense]

Just placed my order. Anyone have recommendations on 6.5 CM dies? I haven't reloaded in over 3 years and it feels like I'm relearning it all over again.

Also, what size Pelican does the soft case fit in?

I went with the Redding Competition dies. In theory, they are more concentric than most dies. I like the caliper seating adjustments. When I have to buy a new lot of bullets, and the ogive length changes, I can just dial in the change.

 

[orkan]

Just placed my order. Anyone have recommendations on 6.5 CM dies?

Whidden dies. Definitely.

Way better than hornady or rcbs...

 

[ezmo]

I concur with Orkan, Whidden Dies all the way. I get little to no run out when placed on the concentricity gauge with the Whidden's.

 

[300LW]

Running an elite iron on a couple HTI's here. Really awesome doesn't begin to describe it.

We're really close to being able to offer a brake-attach suppressor for the 375CT DTA brake. Stay tuned.

You're right, awesome doesn't begin to describe how great it is. I just posted my first impressions on the Elite Iron .375 in the Suppressor section.

 

[secondofangle]

Hey are any of you guys running a YHM .338 suppressor on your .338 Lapua? If so are you losing any accuracy with it?

I have a custom .338 Lapua barrel 22.5" and it wont shoot under 2" groups @100 yards. I've tried 4 different OCW tests with 250's 285' & 300's different powders ect and nothing will shoot well out of it. I've also shot groups without the can and the only thing that changed was a slight POI shift which is to be expected when remove 2# off the end of the barrel but the groups look the same.

I just recently purchased a 6.5CM regular DTA conversion and using the same brake & Suppressor combo I am consistently shooting under a 1/2 MOA. So I've ruled out me getting used to the platform as the culprit.

I am not saying who's barrel it is as I am not blaming them, it may have been a bad blank ect. but I'd like someone who is using this same can to give me some input if they are experiencing any accuracy issues with it.

My buddy put a YHM can on his 1/2 MOA GAP gun in 300WM and accuracy went to shit. 6 months and hundreds of dollars in ammo and a trip to GAP and one to YHM and I think his problem was finally solved. But in the final analysis it was the YHM brake that was the problem.

 

[secondofangle]

I just wish ballistic had a more intuitive rifle and ammo profile system, like Shooter does. The program as a whole is pretty good... but the interface/data handling sucks big time compared to Shooter or Applied Ballistics.

+1 shooter is more user friendly I have both

 

[secondofangle]

New DTA SRS Range Report

And I'm not that great a shooter.....the TBAC helped

 

[PRDRIVER]

And I'm not that great a shooter.....the TBAC helped

I am glad you are liking you new toys. I tell my customers all the time that factory Desert Tech barrels shoot incredible.

I took my SRS w/ factory .260 conversion to the Utah State Sniper Shoot this last weekend. My rifle had been sitting in the safe ever since the Desert Tech match that I won back in July. I ended up with a third place finish, which is great considering the talent we had at the match, plus not having shot in 2 months, shooting pistol and carbine movers for the first time, and running on only 2 hours of sleep. It was an epic match, and my SRS functioned flawlessly as usual at the match.

These SRS rifles shoot phenomenally and the monopod is a huge advantage in my opinion. Plus the way they handle around barricades and in unsupported positions is almost unfair compared to a traditional bolt gun with the same length barrel.

My only gripe with the system in a PRS type match is the lack of 10 round mags. Every stage on Saturday required 10 shots, which meant that I had a mag change where guys running 10 rd AI mags had nothing to worry about. Desert Tech if you are listening, Please release the 10 rd mags soon.

 

[Jedi]

Can I put money down, so you can put me on the list for a Left handed SRS ?

So is this finally really going to happen?
Nothing on website that indicates they are going to build a lefty
Any input from Nick as to this is for real gonna happen or just more wishful thinking from us lefties
Happy to put off some purchases if this in pipeline
whats the scoop from Nick, timeline etc to having one in my hands?

 

[dixie3bass]

I am wanting to get a night vision clip on set up to use with my covert. The problem is how do I mount it? Has someone thought of offering a cantilever type mount? I could just buy a srs forearm but I would not be able to run my 16" barrel with suppressor.
Nick have y'all considered making a srs type forearm that is 2 piece? Basically I could use it as covert length or screw on an extension and have full length? I remember reading pages ago about suppressor not fitting inside so that would need addressed.

Thanks.

 

[338FREAK]

My buddy put a YHM can on his 1/2 MOA GAP gun in 300WM and accuracy went to shit. 6 months and hundreds of dollars in ammo and a trip to GAP and one to YHM and I think his problem was finally solved. But in the final analysis it was the YHM brake that was the problem.

Can I ask what YHM did when he sent it in? What did they look for?

 

[secondofangle]

Can I ask what YHM did when he sent it in? What did they look for?

GAP identified that the problem was the brake/adapter (installed outside of GAP with a crush washer) by replacing the adapter with another one. There was some finger pointing b/t GAP and YHM about whose problem it was. The gun was then sent to YHM and they replaced the brake/adapter and problem solved. Shooting bugholes again. This is not the only episode of this. THe YHM adapters are crap. Cost my buddy hundreds of rounds of ammo changing the load, wear on his equipment, hours of time, and basically 6 months with a gun that would not shoot or was at GAP or YHM getting looked at.

 

[orkan]

*snip* crush washer *snip*

Thou shalt not attach suppressors or their associated muzzle devices with a crush washer.

If there were a list of commandments for suppressors... that would be near the top.

 

[secondofangle]

Thou shalt not attach suppressors or their associated muzzle devices with a crush washer.

If there were a list of commandments for suppressors... that would be near the top.

My understanding is that the concern with this is misalignment of the suppressor. While this was happening, his suppressor was in jail, and there was no evidence that projectiles were contacting the brake/adapter.

Guys are using crush washers for non-suppressor adapters, so if this is the mechanism of his accuracy issues, how come others with FHs and crush washers are not having problems?

Also, I will contact him to CONFIRM that it was a CW install, but IIRC that's what another gunsmith that was with us one day said was used.

 

[dumbbell]

I installed a jec brake with a crush washer, and although there were no marks on it, accuracy was all over the place, 6 inch groups at 100 yards. Brake off, half inch. Talked to jec and the problem was the crush washer. Bought some of their precision shims, problem solved.

 

[orkan]

My understanding is that the concern with this is misalignment of the suppressor. While this was happening, his suppressor was in jail, and there was no evidence that projectiles were contacting the brake/adapter.

Guys are using crush washers for non-suppressor adapters, so if this is the mechanism of his accuracy issues, how come others with FHs and crush washers are not having problems?

Also, I will contact him to CONFIRM that it was a CW install, but IIRC that's what another gunsmith that was with us one day said was used.

A flash hider is not a suppressor. A crooked flash hider will almost never affect accuracy. A crooked suppressor almost always will. There is often only about 30 thousandths or less of clearance between the bullet, and the suppressor. A 30 cal suppressor, most often has a .338cal hole through it... and so on. It doesn't take much misalignment to move 15 thousandths one direction, 8-10 inches from the muzzle. Having the square shoulder on the barrel, interface with the square shoulder on the suppressor or it's QD mount is of PARAMOUNT importance to ensuring the can is on there straight. The threads, are slanted by design. What you attach to them will/can be slanted to some degree depending upon the fit of those threads together. The shoulders meeting, takes that slack out, and straightens things up.

Baffle strikes can be interpreted as baffle "glances," where the bullet just ticks the inside of the core, or the end cap. Not catastrophically, but just enough to get it to fly different. This is the most common cause for accuracy/precision issues that are "created" when a suppressor is attached.

I have seen crush washers do this DOZENS of times. They are designed to deform in accordance with the forces applied. I've had people tell me "well my smith said blah blah blah" dozens of times. Those smiths... are bad, and they should feel bad. Don't listen to them.

 

[secondofangle]

A flash hider is not a suppressor. A crooked flash hider will almost never affect accuracy. A crooked suppressor almost always will. There is often only about 30 thousandths or less of clearance between the bullet, and the suppressor. A 30 cal suppressor, most often has a .338cal hole through it... and so on. It doesn't take much misalignment to move 15 thousandths one direction, 8-10 inches from the muzzle. Having the square shoulder on the barrel, interface with the square shoulder on the suppressor or it's QD mount is of PARAMOUNT importance to ensuring the can is on there straight. The threads, are slanted by design. What you attach to them will/can be slanted to some degree depending upon the fit of those threads together. The shoulders meeting, takes that slack out, and straightens things up.

Baffle strikes can be interpreted as baffle "glances," where the bullet just ticks the inside of the core, or the end cap. Not catastrophically, but just enough to get it to fly different. This is the most common cause for accuracy/precision issues that are "created" when a suppressor is attached.

I have seen crush washers do this DOZENS of times. They are designed to deform in accordance with the forces applied. I've had people tell me "well my smith said blah blah blah" dozens of times. Those smiths... are bad, and they should feel bad. Don't listen to them.

Orkan - redirect: the can was NEVER installed when the GAP gun was shooting crappy. ONLY the YHM brake/adapter while the Form 4 on the can was pending.

Your points about the crush washer are fully acknowledged here. I'm trying to point out the the person who asked above that THE YHM ADAPTER ALONE SANS SUPPRESSOR can affect accuracy.

Moreover, George at GAP did not identify the crush washer as the problem. They had to replace the YHM adapter/brake with ANOTHER one at YHM. It was not, as far as I can tell as a third party hearing the story (again today from the source) as simple as "it's the crush washer, stupid." There was more to it than that.

 

[orkan]

Orkan - redirect: the can was NEVER installed when the GAP gun was shooting crappy. ONLY the YHM brake/adapter while the Form 4 on the can was pending.

Your points about the crush washer are fully acknowledged here. I'm trying to point out the the person who asked above that THE YHM ADAPTER ALONE SANS SUPPRESSOR can affect accuracy.

Moreover, George at GAP did not identify the crush washer as the problem. They had to replace the YHM adapter/brake with ANOTHER one at YHM. It was not, as far as I can tell as a third party hearing the story (again today from the source) as simple as "it's the crush washer, stupid." There was more to it than that.

In the case of suppressors and crush washers, it is always as simple as "crush washer, stupid."

I have never seen a flash hider/brake affect accuracy unless it was of poor design, or making physical contact with the bullet. Was your friends rifle threaded by GAP and confirmed 1/2 moa, and then the flash hider was installed? Or was the muzzle threaded for flash hider later? If it was indeed a bad flash hider/qd mount... then what on it was bad? If GAP discovered this, then your friend knows?

Even still... things like this, the truth is rarely known unless a third party is doing the diagnosis.

 

[secondofangle]

Barrel threaded at GAP with thread protector. COnfirmed 0.5 MOA shooter before left GAP. YHM adapter put on by another guy in COMO area. Gun shoots like crap multiple shooters, multiple loads, yada yada yada. YHM adapter switched to another YHM adapter from a different gun at GAP - 0.5 MOA again, problem identified. YHM incredulous about this. Gun taken/sent to YHM, and they begrudgingly admitted that their adapter was the problem and installed a new one. 0.5 MOA GAP gun again.

The take home message for me is, if you have a gun that shoots and you put a YHM adapter on it and it doesn't shoot, suppressor or no suppressor, the FIRST thing you should do is take that adapter off. Us, we changed out the scopes, made different loads, tried different shooters, etc etc, etc. There were 4 experienced shooters and a gunsmith there telling my buddy "we should unscrew that adapter" but he was reluctant to do so. If he had listened, it would have saved a lot of grief and made the solution much more obvious.

 

[ssnfa]

If he indeed used a crush washer your friend should have read the YHM directions. As a YHM dealer I have always been told by them to not use crush washers. Even mentions it on the webpage. 7.62 Crush Washers

 

[orkan]

Barrel threaded at GAP with thread protector. COnfirmed 0.5 MOA shooter before left GAP. YHM adapter put on by another guy in COMO area. Gun shoots like crap multiple shooters, multiple loads, yada yada yada. YHM adapter switched to another YHM adapter from a different gun at GAP - 0.5 MOA again, problem identified. YHM incredulous about this. Gun taken/sent to YHM, and they begrudgingly admitted that their adapter was the problem and installed a new one. 0.5 MOA GAP gun again.

The take home message for me is, if you have a gun that shoots and you put a YHM adapter on it and it doesn't shoot, suppressor or no suppressor, the FIRST thing you should do is take that adapter off. Us, we changed out the scopes, made different loads, tried different shooters, etc etc, etc. There were 4 experienced shooters and a gunsmith there telling my buddy "we should unscrew that adapter" but he was reluctant to do so. If he had listened, it would have saved a lot of grief and made the solution much more obvious.

I get all that... but none of that says "why." It only says "what." What was determined to be the "why" that qd mount was bad?

 

[PRDRIVER]

Secondofangle - I had a similar experience with my AAC M4-2000. I put it on my Larue AR and it immediately turned my rifle from a 3/4 MOA rifle to a 5 MOA rifle. The issue on my AAC mount was that the suppressor would loosen up to the first locking tooth after firing, which would introduce a tiny bit of wobble in the suppressor, and at that point accuracy went out the proverbial window. AAC was painful to deal with this. They kept telling me that, I must have been doing something wrong. I ended up purchasing 10 different mounts ($1000 in mounts) from a few different dealers and finally found one mount that my suppressor locked onto securely. I was so disappointed with AAC, that I will not stock their suppressors.

 

[ney1]

338freak,
Break designs can effect accuracy when you have a large amount of unburnt powder existing the barrel. An accurate silencer would also help strip the gases away from the projectile as it exists the muzzle to reduce yawing effects.

RMW,
That is why our DTSS silencers do not use locking teeth instead we use a standard thread and use the baffles to self tighten the can while shooting.

 

[orkan]

338freak,
Break designs can effect accuracy when you have a large amount of unburnt powder existing the barrel. An accurate silencer would also help strip the gases away from the projectile as it exists the muzzle to reduce yawing effects.

RMW,
That is why our DTSS silencers do not use locking teeth instead we use a standard thread and use the baffles to self tighten the can while shooting.

... and they are the lightest, shortest, and best damn 338 rated suppressors I've used to date!

 

[secondofangle]

... and they are the lightest, shortest, and best damn 338 rated suppressors I've used to date!

What design features make them able to tolerate short barreled (16") 338LM without failure? Or are there just not enough of them out there in circulation for us to know that with confidence yet?

 

[ney1]

Solid mono-core baffle stack with no welds and the magic fairy dust we sprinkle inside them.

Orkan,
I agree with you.

 

[waveslayer]

Solid mono-core baffle stack with no welds and the magic fairy dust we sprinkle inside them.

Orkan,
I agree with you.

Do you sell that magic fairy dust or sprinkle it on the DTA barrels? I'd take some for next week in my hunt

 

[orkan]

Or are there just not enough of them out there in circulation for us to know that with confidence yet?

There are LOTS of them being used on short 338LM's and 338Norma's. I definitely know they can take it, as none of them has failed... and I have a customer that has over 3000rnds of 338LM on a 17" custom barrel through his DTSS.

Notice the key statement in Nicks post: No welds.

The DTSS's are accurate, light, short, and brutally strong. No reason to look anywhere else for a can unless you are looking for the quietest can possible. In that case, elite iron's can would be the only option that provides an appreciable decibel drop from the DTSS. They are about 2" longer, and weigh twice as much, and require a special barrel profile for the brake attach models. Amazingly strong and quiet cans though.

 

[secondofangle]

Guys, while we're on the topic, what suppressor do you recommend for the DTA HTI in 375CT? Elite Iron? Or AAC Cyclops, for possible cross-over to 50 BMG?

 

[RaptorFuel]

I started to do some math and I'm not so sure about my decision to get a custom barrel so I can put a Silencerco Saker on it.

Factory barrels w/ DTSS
Factory 6.5 CM 1450
DTSS 2100
Total 3550
Add a scond conv 1450
New Total 5000

Custom barrels and Saker
Custom 6.5 CM 1900
Saker 1100
Total 3000
Add second cust conv 1900
New total 4900


When I first figured it I thought it would be cheaper to get the Saker and custom barrels, which I had already planned on getting, than getting factory barrels and the DTSS. But after looking at this it seems in the long run it will be cheaper to just get the DTSS and factory barrles. Doing that would also get me a .338 suppressor. Damnit sorry orkan if im being such a PITA customer. What do you guys think? Im going to be ordering a suppressor soon.

 

[RaptorFuel]

Saker would let me use it on my AR but the DTSA can be used on a .338 conversion.

I'm going to stick with my original plan and order. I have ARs to put the saker on now. I can always get the DTSS when I get a .338 barrel.

 

[orkan]

As I probably mentioned on the phone Raptor... the factory DTA barrels shoot great. They guarantee 1/2 MOA. The Custom barrels shoot better. This is just a matter of the difference between a production environment, and a completely hand-tailored environment. Personally, I refuse to give up the advantage to save a couple hundred bucks when I'm spending $6k+. Others feel differently, and they are happy with the factory barrels. If you don't want a custom length, contour, chambering, twist, flutes, thread, or color... then the factory barrels will serve you fine. I'll get you whatever you want, because that's what matters.

For me, the choice between a DTSS and a Saker is a no brainer. DTSS all the way. Also, don't forget your snipershide discount when factoring in your pricing.

So were it me in your shoes, I'm choosing a Custom barrel and DTSS, and I wouldn't question my decision for a second. You'll be setup for a can on future barrels, and you'll have the best barrel money can buy... and regret nothing. You get a saker for your DTA, and I promise you that you'll regret it when you call me for a .338LM barrel in the future.

Secondofangle, forget the AAC can. The elite iron 50BMG can doubles on the 375CT nicely. The big bore stuff is really where elite iron shines.

 

[RaptorFuel]

I decided to stick with what I ordered. I have a couple ARs which is why I was originally going to get the Saker. I wasn't planning on getting a .338 conversion for at least a year. I'm just going to have to save up a little more and get the DTSS with it . Best course of action is to get both.

I hit that buyers remorse stage that always happens after plunking down a bunch of money. I'm over it now.

 

[orkan]

I hit that buyers remorse stage that always happens after plunking down a bunch of money. I'm over it now.

You get used to it.

 

[secondofangle]

I spoke with EI today. They have 2 dedicated 375 cans now that are not on the website (these are in addition to the alpha 50 can and the other big bore cans that will take up to 416 Barrett). One is an overbrake can, 2" diameter, 12.5" long 3# 9oz Stainless steel. The direct thread one is 10" and unknown weight.

One problem is that the DTA threads are oddball, unless we're wrong. So if you get a direct thread, your wait time will go up.

It is rumored (from a good source) that EI is working on making a 375 can for DTA HTI that will thread on over the threads on the native DTA brake - but that it could be 6 months or more before this is done with T&E.

Hmmmm.

 

[orkan]

It is rumored (from a good source) that EI is working on making a 375 can for DTA HTI that will thread on over the threads on the native DTA brake

Rumor? I posted this about a month ago.

 

[338FREAK]

338freak,
Break designs can effect accuracy when you have a large amount of unburnt powder existing the barrel. An accurate silencer would also help strip the gases away from the projectile as it exists the muzzle to reduce yawing effects.

RMW,
That is why our DTSS silencers do not use locking teeth instead we use a standard thread and use the baffles to self tighten the can while shooting.

Yea I know brakes can make a difference but I used the Same exact brake on my custom savage when I had it with no accuracy issues. I have eliminated the Can as the issue. I will be sending the barrel back to the person who manufactured it for me for them to evaluate whats wrong. On a side note the DTA 6.5 Creedmoor barrel kicks some serious A$$!! I'm loving it!

 

[secondofangle]

Rumor? I posted this about a month ago.

Like I said, it is rumored that....

 

[cj10]

Desert Tech Europe

Could DT USA please give DT Europe a nudge and ask them to let me know what has happened to the gen 1 barrel extension I've been waiting for? I can't seem to get an answer from them.

Ordered a gen 1 260 barrel and was given a gen 2 last year. I didn't make a fuss and was told they would swop out the extensions as soon as a gen 1 extension arrived from the USA. When I've been chasing this over the last few months my emails and phone calls don't normally get a response.

Appreciate I'm only an individual buyer so am not as important as a military/ law
enforcement contract but I was an early adopter in the UK back in 2010 and have spent the sterling equivalent of nearly 10000$

 

[orkan]

Some of you guys may know we are a nightforce dealer. Others may not. Either way, I always find it humorous to listen to guys talk up their 50BMG's in my presence. ... and then I show them mine.

Here's a customer's M107 that came in for a scope and mounting. I know which .50 I'd rather have! Though the 107 would be nice if guarding a checkpoint.

 

[waveslayer]

Some of you guys may know we are a nightforce dealer. Others may not. Either way, I always find it humorous to listen to guys talk up their 50BMG's in my presence. ... and then I show them mine.

Here's a customer's M107 that came in for a scope and mounting. I know which .50 I'd rather have! Though the 107 would be nice if guarding a checkpoint.

That's funny, what do they usually say?

 

[orkan]

That's funny, what do they usually say?

Usually how awesome their 50 is. Most have never heard of a DTA HTI. When I show them... they usually cry a little bit. For some of them, they've saved up money for several years to buy theirs. So when I show them one that's a foot shorter, lighter, and more accurate... it can sting a bit.

I don't spend much time talking up 50's though... even the HTI. Obviously it's the only platform I'd have one in... but 375CT is where my heart lives. That cartridge in an HTI is ELR bliss sent from heaven on the wings of angels!

 

[565fitter]

Usually how awesome their 50 is. Most have never heard of a DTA HTI. When I show them... they usually cry a little bit. For some of them, they've saved up money for several years to buy theirs. So when I show them one that's a foot shorter, lighter, and more accurate... it can sting a bit.

I don't spend much time talking up 50's though... even the HTI. Obviously it's the only platform I'd have one in... but 375CT is where my heart lives. That cartridge in an HTI is ELR bliss sent from heaven on the wings of angels!

I have no need or even the range to shoot the 375 but man I would love to get my hands on one to squeeze off a few.

 

[orkan]

We have sold a few 22" 338's. Not sure when your elk season is, but the probability is high that we could get you setup by then.

 

[DetroitRearView]

Anyone running a 22" .338 LM in their SRS? I want to and am currently looking for one, if you have one let me know what you think of it and who did the conversion for you. If you have one to sell, PM me, I'm being impatient about waiting for turn around time, I want it for elk season this year!

this is my mountain DT setup, easy to pack and fairly lightweight considering it's reach

Barrel is 22" Bartlein from SAC...worked on this guy last year

 

[DetroitRearView]

my longer range setup, 29" Bartlein spits the 300 Scenars @ 2820 fps and is a tack driver as well