Ogive Markings with Whidden Seater Stem

[adaptive]

Hi everyone,

I tried contacting Whidden before creating this thread, but they didn’t get back to me after two emails and a phone call, so I thought I would ask here. I recently purchased the Click Adjustable FL Die set along with the Seater Stem for my bullet 140gr ELD-M Hornady. The description says that the seater is supposed to eliminate marking the ogive, but all the ammo I created (30+) had the ogive circle marks (see picture).

Is this the expected result from using the bullet-specific Seater Stem? Will this marking affect my accuracy and consistency? I am currently working a load for my AI ATX in 6.5CM using.

40gr, 40.3gr, 40.5gr., and 40.8gr. CBTO is 2.19” (approx 2.815 OAL)

Thanks!

 

[bpd459]

How much neck tension are do you have? Are your powder charges compressed?

 

[hafejd30]

I swap my seating stems on my Redding seaters depending how it contacts the bullet. My vld stems still bite my 142 smk bullets. The standard stem actually works better for those. When I drop the press I can feel it release its grip on the bullet. Most times it’s the opposite and the vld works better. Could try another stem. That one clearly has issues

I seat with .0015 neck tension typically

 

[adaptive]

Regarding neck tension, this is brand new Lapua case that was never fired before therefore, I never resized it. All I did was measure the headspace, and they are all -0.002

 

[adaptive]

I swap my seating stems on my Redding seaters depending how it contacts the bullet. My vld stems still bite my 142 smk bullets. The standard stem actually works better for those. When I drop the press I can feel it release its grip on the bullet. Most times it’s the opposite and the vld works better. Could try another stem. That one clearly has issues

I seat with .0015 neck tension typically

I will try their “standard” stem and see if it marks the bullets. Thanks!

 

[hafejd30]

I will try their “standard” stem and see if it marks the bullets. Thanks!

I’ll add I run a 21st century mandrel through mine when virgin

 

[memilanuk]

brand new Lapua case that was never fired before

^this is likely the problem. Virgin Lapua brass tends to exhibit *extremely* high neck friction, all out of correlation with the apparent 'neck tension'.

 

[bpd459]

Regarding neck tension, this is brand new Lapua case that was never fired before therefore, I never resized it. All I did was measure the headspace, and they are all -0.002

Factory, out of the box Lapua is crazy tight. You need to run it over a mandrel.

 

[memilanuk]

Factory, out of the box Lapua is crazy tight. You need to run it over a mandrel.

This is the way

 

[adaptive]

Interesting, I didn’t know that about Lapua virgin brass. This explains things, thanks everyone for the help. I don’t have a mandrel, but I guess I will need to buy one.

Do you use the mandrel only on virgin brass? Or it can be used on fired brass. And do you use it before or after you FL resize?

 

[hafejd30]

Interesting, I didn’t know that about Lapua virgin brass. This explains things, thanks everyone for the help. I don’t have a mandrel, but I guess I will need to buy one.

Do you use the mandrel only on virgin brass? Or it can be used on fired brass. And do you use it before or after you FL resize?

Depends what your sizing process is. If I used a bushing I would sometimes run the bushing then mandrel. Say .003 sized tension then madrel to .0010 to get about .0015” tension

My preferred method is a Lee collet die now.

I would fl size then mandrel. The mandrel would be your final step in the sizing process

 

[918v]

Interesting, I didn’t know that about Lapua virgin brass. This explains things, thanks everyone for the help. I don’t have a mandrel, but I guess I will need to buy one.

Do you use the mandrel only on virgin brass? Or it can be used on fired brass. And do you use it before or after you FL resize?

You use a mandrel to expand a case neck, be it virgin or fired/resized, in order to set the correct neck tension.

 

[spife7980]

Interesting, I didn’t know that about Lapua virgin brass. This explains things, thanks everyone for the help. I don’t have a mandrel, but I guess I will need to buy one.

Do you use the mandrel only on virgin brass? Or it can be used on fired brass. And do you use it before or after you FL resize?

Also chamfer your case mouths on the virgin brass. Make a smooth transition rather than shaving copper on the square case mouth.

I remove the expander ball from the sizing die and replace that action with a second sizing step of then running the case over a mandrel for my expansion.

 

[ma smith]

chamfers, drylube (since no carbon), madrel, etc
makes for happy campers

 

[adaptive]

Also chamfer your case mouths on the virgin brass. Make a smooth transition rather than shaving copper on the square case mouth.

I remove the expander ball from the sizing die and replace that action with a second sizing step of then running the case over a mandrel for my expansion.

I can’t believe I missed that lol I haven’t reloaded in 7 years and it didn’t cross my mind to chamfer. I will try that today

 

[adaptive]

I tried chamfering the inside and outside, and made an additional 5 rounds. I didn’t notice any difference at all and the ring is still present. It had to be the neck tightness

 

[918v]

Also try dry lube when you mandrel them. It smooths out both mandrel in and seating.

 

[ma smith]

Also try dry lube when you mandrel them. It smooths out both mandrel in and seating.

super clean necks are like "squeaky" clean, and have high friction.

To som extent, neck tension is irrespective of relative diameter, there are other variables as play like neck wall thickness, annealing state, and surface condition/lubricity etc.

there's good articles on this over at accurate shooter, because neck turning has some impact on ability to hold bullets securely for any given mandrel size, and same thing with work hardness (ie need for annealing), and use of moly or whatever crazy stuff they do over there.

 

[6MT]

Delete please

 

[straightshooter1]

I tried chamfering the inside and outside, and made an additional 5 rounds. I didn’t notice any difference at all and the ring is still present. It had to be the neck tightness

Did you happen to measure the OD of the neck before seating a round then again after seating a round? If so, how much difference is there?

 

[memilanuk]

I don’t have a mandrel,

If you have a dry tumbler with some used media... throw them in there for a while (half hour to an hour). The dust will act as a sort of dry lube inside the case necks. Make sure to check the flash holes for stray media as per usual, and give that a try.

 

[adaptive]

Did you happen to measure the OD of the neck before seating a round then again after seating a round? If so, how much difference is there?

I did not measure anything except for headspace which was consistent -0.002 for these Lapua cases. I will use the OneShot Case Lube on my next batch. Thanks for the suggestion everyone!

 

[adaptive]

I do have a question, I went to 21st Century to make a purchase for the 6.5CM in Black Nitride Expander Mandel and I found multiple options:

$37.5 for this: https://21stcenturyinnovation.com/buy-online/ols/products/black-nitride-expander-mandrel/v/NBE26

Multiple different size and up to $236.25 for the whole kit: https://21stcenturyinnovation.com/b...ack-nitride-caliber-specific-expander-mandrel

I will ONLY be using the Hornady 140/147 ELDM, which of these should I buy?

 

[918v]

The kit is to accommodate different brass not different bullets. Bullets from different manufacturers are all .2637” to .2642”. Brass on the other hand has different neck thickness and hardness depending on which you get. And it gets harder with each reloading cycle. Having different size mandrels will ensure consistent seating pressure.

 

[adaptive]

Thank you, $236.25 it is lol