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Hazmat Studies: Livingston, LA, Train Derailment—36 Years Later
Robert Burke looks back at how one town managed a train derailment with hazardous materials and explosions.www.firehouse.com
2nd half talks about derailment:
Not sure what you are getting after with this but with the raised lettering section, some of the richest people Warren Buffet and corporations own the vast majority of the railroads in North America. When you get the Government to assist you with settling labor disputes so as not to damage PROFITS or upset shareholders it should start to put an idea of what thinks these same beancounters put before everything else profits! The way I see it these rich fucking elitist's, that consider us to be nothing more unless eaters need to lower their profits and not only pay for this cleanup but bring the railroads into modern times. Japan and Europe some how managed to make this happen why are we rolling like India? The rich with their purse strings control the politicians. We are to stupid too have gas stoves but give Buttipegitinmyass a zippo and can fix things just like that little weinersnitchel roast in OhioThe Palestine derailment was the 4th derailment here in Ohio this year, 2023 and only February. One happened in my town exactly a week before this one. I just think RR infrastructure is shit and underfunded/neglected or whatever and we're paying for it now. I don't think it's alien balloons and NWO conspiracies.
So looking at burn byproducts of vinyl chloride...
Holy...
"Depending on the amount of VCM-air premixing prior to combustion, the temperature of a VCM flame ranges from 950° to 1466°C. Similarly, the soot or unburned carbon content of a VCM flame varies from 3 to 6 weight percent. An analysis of the combustion gases from VCM reveal the following composition: HCl 27,000 ppm; CO2 58,100 ppm; CO 9500 ppm; phosgene 40 ppm; and VCM trace. From a hazard standpoint, the gross quantity of hydrogen chloride is the main source of danger in a VCM fire...."
Hydrogen Chloride
Hydrogen chloride - IDLH | NIOSH | CDC
The revised IDLH for hydrogen chloride is 50 ppm based on acute inhalation toxicity data in humanswww.cdc.gov
CDC - NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards - Hydrogen chloride
Anhydrous hydrogen chloride, Aqueous hydrogen chloride, Hydrochloric acid [Note: Often used in an aqueous solution.] Colorless to slightly yellow gas with a pungent, irritating odor. [Note: Shipped as a liquefied compressed gas.]www.cdc.gov
HYDROGEN CHLORIDE, ANHYDROUS | CAMEO Chemicals | NOAA
cameochemicals.noaa.gov
Phosgene
CDC - NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards - Phosgene
Carbon oxychloride, Carbonyl chloride, Carbonyl dichloride, Chloroformyl chloride Colorless gas with a suffocating odor like musty hay. [Note: A fuming liquid below 47°F. Shipped as a liquefied compressed gas.]www.cdc.gov
PHOSGENE | CAMEO Chemicals | NOAA
cameochemicals.noaa.gov
Norfolk Southern is going to buy that town when all is said and done.
The days of hauling ass with Hazmat at track (limit) speed in mixed manifest freight is hopefully at an end. They'll wind up running it in (much) smaller trains at slower speeds, I would bet. Which is a good thing. Wall St has wrecked the railroads, to the point where reregulation may be on the table. NS spent more on stock buybacks than maintenance.
Had that not been a 150 car train it could have stopped quicker. I'm told that train had a mid-train helper engine (remote control) which means when the derailment started, the back half of the train was still pushing into the wreck. Happens anyway with inertia, but with that second engine pushing...
This will have bigger effects than most "normal" derailments.
HCl will instantly absorb into the atmospheric moisture so it will not be anhydrous. It will go from a covalent to an ionic state and become hydrochloric acid.
I was never good at chemistry, but seem to recall one of the acid gases made in the hood vent was distinctly brown, was that nitric or hydrochloric? Was that image of the burn off in East Palestine basically a big acid gas cloud, with various other combustion byproducts in it?
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Acidic gases or "fuming" acid is white. Basically what happens is the concentration in solution (water) has reached its maximum and it will fume off trying to reach equilibrium with the air. More than likely what you observed was NO2 in the vent hood as a byproduct of whatever reaction using nitric acid (other nitrogen containing compounds can also form this byproduct).
The cloud itself contained CO, CO2 and HCl (both covalent and ionic once it is absorbed by water in the air). Was it a big acid cloud? Yes and No. Also, remember CO2 will also form carbonic acid as well.
Actually a cheap experiment is to have some pH paper in distilled water and blow into the water through a straw. The more you blow into the water the more acidic the water becomes (great to teach young kids about pH).
What made the cloud black? Unburned hydrocarbons or ?
A while back I was reading some articles about the pending railroad worker strike that Poopy Pants put to an end. Please forgive me as my memory is a little fuzzy and some details escape me.Norfolk Southern is going to buy that town when all is said and done.
The days of hauling ass with Hazmat at track (limit) speed in mixed manifest freight is hopefully at an end. They'll wind up running it in (much) smaller trains at slower speeds, I would bet. Which is a good thing. Wall St has wrecked the railroads, to the point where reregulation may be on the table. NS spent more on stock buybacks than maintenance.
Had that not been a 150 car train it could have stopped quicker. I'm told that train had a mid-train helper engine (remote control) which means when the derailment started, the back half of the train was still pushing into the wreck. Happens anyway with inertia, but with that second engine pushing...
This will have bigger effects than most "normal" derailments.
Wow, did you get that bullshit number from Twitter or 4Chan? I'm in one of the highest paying crafts, and that pay raise was less than $5/hr so far, and at the end of the five year CBA term will total out at a $8.41/hr raise. The only ones getting an equivalent $23/hr raise are managers as their pay is tied to doing more with less, and I guarantee not a single one who boards a locomotive, swings a hammer, or turns a wrench will see anything remotely close to $23/hr raise.Don't forget that the labor unions extorted a $23 an hour wage raise for their members from hapless brandon. That won't guarantee a single ounce of extra effort or responsibility. How much of this can be their responsibility, as in "What? Me work?"
I read something similar was mentioned by the NTSB a couple days ago, but all I keep hearing from the WH press secretary is Trump canx air brakes.I've heard this particular train alarmed the hot bearing detector 20 miles back from where it went on the ground and they never stopped to inspect, instead leaving it to "Let's see what happens at the next detector."
It was additional electric brakes that were cancelled, cars already operate on air brakes that work perfectly fine, but as usual it’s Trump’s fault for something that happened over two years into lefty regime and a rule that just barely took effect under Potato’s DoT. It’s like an ex blaming you for getting knocked up two years post divorce.I read something similar was mentioned by the NTSB a couple days ago, but all I keep hearing from the WH press secretary is Trump canx air brakes.
It was additional electric brakes that were cancelled, cars already operate on air brakes that work perfectly fine, but as usual it’s Trump’s fault for something that happened over two years into lefty regime and a rule that just barely took effect under Potato’s DoT. It’s like an ex blaming you for getting knocked up two years post divorce.
Most of the world’s trains are equipped with air-braking systems that use compressed air to stop each train car individually. ECP brakes, which use electronic signals to simultaneously apply and release brakes throughout the length of a train, were introduced to overcome the drawbacks of the air-brake system on long freight trains.
The only thing electronic brakes do differently than air is apply faster. There’s a continuous air line from front to back, fed by locomotives positioned where they may be, and it’s applied air pressure that releases the brakes from the wheels similar to a tractor-trailer. When the air line is broken and pressure is lost, anywhere along the line, the brakes are applied in emergency stop. Electronic brakes are faster by a couple-few seconds on a train that long, but the brakes are still pads engaging against a wheel set. If a wheel set is on fire because the bearing shit out, and the car is essentially riding on that bearing box, braking force is already compromised either due to a hot wheel or failed coupling of the car to the bearing and the car is going on the ground.Re-read the article...
So, would the older air brake system have caused the crash if an axle bearing failed?
It's not difficult to catch in walking down the street. Just follow the trail of fairy dust.![]()
Pete Buttigieg lashes out at reporter asking about toxic Ohio train derailment
Buttigieg snapped that he was on “personal time” when questioned late Tuesday about his plans to visit the toxic train derailment site in East Palestine, Ohio — before asking if he could take a pho…nypost.com
"Taking personal time to walk down the street" then takes pic of reporter.