Ok, give it to me straight....Ruby Ridge.

[Bender]

I was in middle school when this all went down, I feel old now but even today I remember it in the news and my father talking about it. I have googled it and researched, but as you all know, there is tons of conspiracy theory and miss information on both sides of the story. I know the ending, I just wanted to know how it got there. I figured I could get it straight from here. I know about the murderer Lon, and wonder why he isn’t dead. Does he have to hide? Did it all start from entrapment of asking/begging to modify weapons to “catch” them breaking the law? I also know some of the same people were “there” when Waco shit went down. I remember that very well because I had a broken leg and was missing the first half of my freshman year at home with it watching everything on the news. But again I was still so young and didn’t understand the story behind Ruby Ridge, and what led to Waco. What do you think?

 

[Midwestside]

Do you have netflix and did you watch their documentary version of it? It was worth the watch IMHO.

 

[Bender]

Do you have netflix and did you watch their documentary version of it? It was worth the watch IMHO.

Yes I have Netflix, no i didn’t watch, because I didn’t know they had one. Is it the truth? Or slanted Hollywood garbage.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

one thing to always remember.........there are WAY too many barristers in this world, and there is always some one timer looking for a gold star behind his name to make him look larger than he really is.........

 

[MtnCreek]

Do you have netflix and did you watch their documentary version of it? It was worth the watch IMHO.

Was that on Waco? NPR interviewed some folks on a doc on Waco and I meant to look for it, but didn't follow up.

 

[Bender]

one thing to always remember.........there are WAY too many barristers in this world, and there is always some one timer looking for a gold star behind his name to make him look larger than he really is.........

Exactly, that’s why I want the undeluded truth. LOL. I would say all of that shit lays in the lap of the Clintons and the he-woman Janet Reno.

 

[Midwestside]

"Is it the truth? Or slanted Hollywood garbage."

I honestly have no way to verify, so I won't offer much opinion on that.

 

[Midwestside]

Was that on Waco? NPR interviewed some folks on a doc on Waco and I meant to look for it, but didn't follow up.

It is largely about Ruby Ridge, but makes links to Waco as the OP referenced in post #1

 

[isofahunter]

Unless you have seen the Boot of the Government applied to someones throat that is close to you, you cannot fathom their power to do what they want.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I am not any sort of conspiracy theorist so I will keep it simple. Both Ruby Ridge and Waco were done in the name of "public safety".

It really is that simple.

 

[j-huskey]

Once upon a time, a long time ago, in a place far far away, another galaxy, an out of control government agency wanted an "in" into the white separatist movement. So, they sent in a snitch to get said "in", snitch got Randy Weaver to cut off a shotgun barrel a fraction of a fraction of an inch too short, and the out of control agency then offered Weaver a deal, cooperate or be charged.
Weaver said "fuck you" and went home.
Fed marshals went in to watch Weaver prior to serving the bullshit warrant, and dog, son, and marshal died. And the news reports are accurate from there. Danny Colsen was the fbi agent in charge. Read his book...
The above is close enough.

 

[Bender]

Once upon a time, a long time ago, in a place far far away, another galaxy, an out of control government agency wanted an "in" into the white separatist movement. So, they sent in a snitch to get said "in", snitch got Randy Weaver to cut off a shotgun barrel a fraction of a fraction of an inch too short, and the out of control agency then offered Weaver a deal, cooperate or be charged.
Weaver said "fuck you" and went home.
Fed marshals went in to watch Weaver prior to serving the bullshit warrant, and dog, son, and marshal died. And the news reports are accurate from there. Danny Colsen was the fbi agent in charge. Read his book...
The above is close enough.

So what I have been led to believe wasn’t that far off. That’s basically the same understanding of what happened that I have. I understand the bigger picture as to why nobody from the government went to jail over it, but I still ask myself why didn’t anybody go to jail over it. And I know that’s a rhetorical question, I know exactly why.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Once upon a time, a long time ago, in a place far far away, another galaxy, an out of control government agency wanted an "in" into the white separatist movement. So, they sent in a snitch to get said "in", snitch got Randy Weaver to cut off a shotgun barrel a fraction of a fraction of an inch too short, and the out of control agency then offered Weaver a deal, cooperate or be charged.
Weaver said "fuck you" and went home.
Fed marshals went in to watch Weaver prior to serving the bullshit warrant, and dog, son, and marshal died. And the news reports are accurate from there. Danny Colsen was the fbi agent in charge. Read his book...
The above is close enough.

If I am not mistaken, it was later proved that the FBI as usual totally lied from the beginning and the shotgun barrel was actually cut to the exact minimum length when properly measured according to published standards.

3 Million+ payout of taxpayer money in compensation, but of course as usual the guilty parties (the FBI and their murder hungry "snipers") never had to account for their actions.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

to the victors go the spoils, or in this case the victors get to write history their way....its cover your ass, admit no guilt, and blame it on the dead guy,and we had a valid warrant,......and

did you ever notice, the spooled up activity right before budgets get submitted......

 

[Maggot]

I am not any sort of conspiracy theorist so I will keep it simple. Both Ruby Ridge and Waco were done in the name of "public safety".

It really is that simple.

Sounds like:

Parkland.
And Las Vegas.
And Newton.

 

[Threadcutter308]

So what I have been led to believe wasn’t that far off. That’s basically the same understanding of what happened that I have. I understand the bigger picture as to why nobody from the government went to jail over it, but I still ask myself why didn’t anybody go to jail over it. And I know that’s a rhetorical question, I know exactly why.

Hi Bender, there are lots of articles and videos about both R/R and Waco on the WWW. Just start searching and you'll come across tons of information. I found the interviews and articles about Gerry Spence (Weaver's lawyer) to be fascinating. Spence is 89 now and from what I have always understood, he was/is a liberal. If correct, it makes for an interesting contrast between his beliefs and the exemplary job he did in defending Weaver and others.
In the last couple of weeks, I watched an hour and a half long video about Waco that I think I had seen back when it first came out. Can't remember the name of it, but it made my blood boil all over again. Many, many offenses/infractions by the Gov't that were simply covered up. Search YouTube and you'll find all the videos.

 

[TxLabRat]

The shooter for the FBI's HRT was Lon Horiuchi. He was the one that killed Vicki Weaver while she was holding the baby at the door. He was later indicted for it but got it moved to federal jurisdiction where the charges disappeared. It was reported later, and I think this is unverified, that they found a number of empty 308 cases at his firing position after the fire at Waco.

I remember the news pretty well. Weaver was a separatist. That got changed in the news to white separatist and then to white supremacist. Fake news isn't a recent phenomenon.

 

[softcock]

If I am not mistaken, it was later proved that the FBI as usual totally lied from the beginning and the shotgun barrel was actually cut to the exact minimum length when properly measured according to published standards.

-
I was always told it was ( 3/32" or 1/8" ) short of passing . It was so close that it all depended on who was holding the measuring Rule off the closed breach-face to muzzle end . but that all water under the bridge now and just hazy obscure history .
The history to hang onto and never forget is that there has always been zero accountability when it comes to the Clinton's and I still can't believe that HRC was just a hair away. She was that close from buying a seat and taking her turn as POTUS to continue on there malignant legacy .
.

 

[Bender]

Hi Bender, there are lots of articles and videos about both R/R and Waco on the WWW. Just start searching and you'll come across tons of information. I found the interviews and articles about Gerry Spence (Weaver's lawyer) to be fascinating. Spence is 89 now and from what I have always understood, he was/is a liberal. If correct, it makes for an interesting contrast between his beliefs and the exemplary job he did in defending Weaver and others.
In the last couple of weeks, I watched an hour and a half long video about Waco that I think I had seen back when it first came out. Can't remember the name of it, but it made my blood boil all over again. Many, many offenses/infractions by the Gov't that were simply covered up. Search YouTube and you'll find all the videos.

I have looked, I haven’t watched very many though because I didn’t know what to believe and what not to. I wanted to increase my filter size before I went wading through the shit. If you understand what I’m getting at LOL.

 

[Bender]

The shooter for the FBI's HRT was Lon Horiuchi. He was the one that killed Vicki Weaver while she was holding the baby at the door. He was later indicted for it but got it moved to federal jurisdiction where the charges disappeared. It was reported later, and I think this is unverified, that they found a number of empty 308 cases at his firing position after the fire at Waco.

I remember the news pretty well. Weaver was a separatist. That got changed in the news to white separatist and then to white supremacist. Fake news isn't a recent phenomenon.

Yeah, See, I hate that dirtbag as much is the Clintons.

 

[j-huskey]

AT&fe lied. After weaver cut the barrel, somebody "cleaned" up the cut....... thus shortening it a bit barely into illegal.
Horiuchi was at Waco and did fire into the building, not that it matters now....
Gerry Spence did an absolutely wonderful job of making fools of gov, and 3 mil settlement definitely proves who was right.
That the klintons murder crew continues unchecked is a sad commentary on all of us.
I had friends in LE at both places. Several departed those jobs as soon as possible. Good officers were sacrificed while dirty fucktards got promoted and went on up to do even worse. And the klintons continue to prosper along with the 500ish traitors sitting there now. Growing richer, fatter, and uglier, except a few are losing out now, way too late...

 

[Threadcutter308]

I have looked, I haven’t watched very many though because I didn’t know what to believe and what not to. I wanted to increase my filter size before I went wading through the shit. If you understand what I’m getting at LOL.

I know exactly what you mean. I went through the same thing and whenever I look back into the debacle(s), I (we) still run the same risk of misinformation/propaganda. I think you just need to jump in with both feet and tune your BS filter as best you can.
I'll go look for the name of the video and get it to you. It was all original video, nothing staged, and very unflattering to the Gov't. I cannot recall for sure, but I think I even saw video of Horiuchi physically present @ Waco. Assuming I recalled correctly, I have never been able to rectify the idea of him doing what he did at R/R, then being posted @ Waco. He should have been in jail, or if they were protecting him, he shouldn't have been let out of the mail room in DC. Coward. Who murders a woman holding an infant, standing in the doorway of her own home ?

 

[littleeagle52]

I meet Randy a long time ago.He was a very nice man.I still have a autographed book around the house some where.The federal siege at ruby ridge by Randy and Sara wever.Very good read.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

There was recently a pretty-good documentary on PBS about Ruby Ridge. They covered Waco a week later. I think trying to scare their lefty viewership about the evils of people who are self-sufficient, warrior-trained, and love the Constitution.

That said, the Ruby Ridge documentary on PBS was pretty well-done. It was not as pejorative as I might have expected from public-broadcasting turd-burglars. And I think did a good job covering the events without getting judgemental on either side.

Link:

There are other documentaries. There are other stances. There are some significant conspiracies. But the net of it is... IMHO, pretty well-covered in this piece.

Which surprises the hell out of me, given it was created by Public Broadcasting wingnuts.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[MtnCreek]

PBS is where the Waco one was that I heard about. Thanks for the reminder on where to look.

 

[ArmyJerry]

yep they aint so badass when someone shoots back, even if they are a 14 year old.

just watched this, blood boiling.


years before this Bo Gritz spoke at my PNCOC graduation, his son was my class mate and in my unit.

If I am not mistaken, it was later proved that the FBI as usual totally lied from the beginning and the shotgun barrel was actually cut to the exact minimum length when properly measured according to published standards.

3 Million+ payout of taxpayer money in compensation, but of course as usual the guilty parties (the FBI and their murder hungry "snipers") never had to account for their actions.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Technically, Army, that was the Marshalls....

Noone shot at the FBI. They did all the shooting. And it was a bad, bad decision chain.

Not many good decisions in that whole situation. On the 'Fed side, that is. From the original entrapment to the bad shoots....

Clinton and Reno at their second-finest. The 'finest' was when they set the record for the biggest church-massacre in U.S. History... including last year's fiasco. </sarcasm> That would be covered in the Waco documentary...

Sirhr

 

[ArmyJerry]

Yeah I know, never the less this is a dangerous government we have. sadly. Someone here asked what government over reach looks like, I should have posted this documentary. Looking back at this situation I see the seeds of what DC has become today, makes you think about the gun running Obama was doing too. I don't think the crowds would be as peaceable toward the surrounding and execution of a family today. Has the makings of a British Concord road back to Boston, if you know what I mean.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

What's most interesting is how Waco is tied to OK City.
Some of us were subscribers to Soldier of Fortune during Ruby Ridge, Waco, and OK City.
When someone spotted a picture of McVeigh wearing an ATF jacket in a back issue story on Waco, it became a shitstorm for the editors.

It's all a deep deep rabbit hole, that goes all the way back to Ruby Ridge.
Scary stuff.

 

[Bender]

What's most interesting is how Waco is tied to OK City.
Some of us were subscribers to Soldier of Fortune during Ruby Ridge, Waco, and OK City.
When someone spotted a picture of McVeigh wearing an ATF jacket in a back issue story on Waco, it became a shitstorm for the editors.

It's all a deep deep rabbit hole, that goes all the way back to Ruby Ridge.
Scary stuff.

Please extrapolate McVeigh in an ATF jacket? I’ve never heard this.

 

[mdmp5]

Please extrapolate McVeigh in an ATF jacket? I’ve never heard this.

Never heard that either. He was at Waco selling bumper stickers 3 miles away from the scene but I never heard anything about an atf jacket

 

[Unknown]

Armorpl8 is right about soldier of fortune magazine. I you can access some of their older issues, you will get some really interesting perspective on a great many things. The perspective SOF magazine gave was one of their greatest sales points. And they did bring back some scoop news too..IIRC, they were among the first to write about the Russians using 5.54x39 ammo in Afghanistan.

 

[Va_Gentleman]

@armorpl8chikn is the go to man on these types of things. Hasn't shown me anything wrong yet!

 

[The King]

Ruby Ridge and Waco gave our country another 50 years of life in many ways.

They showed the people that, yes, the American Government will kill the fuck out of you too when it gets bored. US Government Issue Death isn’t just for 3rd world populations.

Both incidents informed the populace more than they were harmful I think. I will never forget that liberals want my death and the death of my family so badly just because I don’t conform to the modern pattern.

 

[Bender]

Ruby Ridge and Waco gave our country another 50 years of life in many ways.

They showed the people that, yes, the American Government will kill the fuck out of you too when it gets bored. US Government Issue Death isn’t just for 3rd world populations.

Both incidents informed the populace more than they were harmful I think. I will never forget that liberals want my death and the death of my family so badly just because I don’t conform to the modern pattern.

I’m feeling this. What happened in Lavoy is just another reminder too.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Whoa whoa....I don't know anything guys. I'm just a dumb old redneck that wears tin foil. Im just running my mouth.
I told "y'all to dig into it". Y'all. Dig. Yourselves.

 

[deersniper]

I'm surprised Hourichi is still around and hasn't been tortured to death by the family members after shooting an unarmed woman holding a baby and later shooting unarmed women and children running from a burning building.

People who put trust in .gov are fools.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I’m feeling this. What happened to Lavoy Finicum is just another reminder too.

FIFY

 

[deersniper]

We are truly living in tyranny and lawlessness when people like Lon and Lois Lerner among many others aren't held accountable for their crimes.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Never heard that either. He was at Waco selling bumper stickers 3 miles away from the scene but I never heard anything about an atf jacket

Of all I ever heard....I had not heard this. Great cover story. I'm guessing this all got brought to light AFTER the scuttlebutt about him being at Waco.
"Oh yes, we don't deny he was in the "area"."
Ok...I've said too much. Then again maybe I'm just too old and worldwise to care anymore.
I threw away a lot of interesting puzzle pieces over the years out of fear. Now it's all out in the open, and actually used by the MSM to make us look like kooks.

I was there seeing it in print before everyone toted a super computer in their pocket.

 

[Bender]

We are truly living in tyranny and lawlessness when people like Lon and Lois Lerner among many others aren't held accountable for their crimes.

Don’t forget Clinton’s, Obama, Nancy P,..... I’ll run out of internet before I get to the end of the list....

 

[armorpl8chikn]

(sigh)
Ok...right quick...besides McVeigh, who else was involved? Why? What do you know about them? What happened to them? Why ELSE might they be implicated? What does this have to do with Ruby Ridge? Waco? What sort of movements were in play between Ruby Ridge and Waco? What happened to ALL of it after OKC?

You don't have to answer me out loud...it is strictly for your personal edification.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Ok....now that you have done some study.
Look at what is happening in the Clive Bundy case. Lavoy Finicum....remember him? Of course not, our attention span is short as our peckers.

Now look at what's happening with the FISA court memos. Look at the corruption.
How hard is it to make normal nobodies into crooks and thugs, if you can make high profile crooks and thugs into dindu nuffins?
I don't believe it's corrupt from the bottom up, I believe it's corrupt from the top down. I believe it's made a lot of good men pack their bags, and I believe there are good men there trying to make a difference. If there wasn't some good men left we wouldn't hear ANY of the real story.

 

[mdmp5]

Of all I ever heard....I had not heard this. Great cover story. I'm guessing this all got brought to light AFTER the scuttlebutt about him being at Waco.
"Oh yes, we don't deny he was in the "area"."
Ok...I've said too much. Then again maybe I'm just too old and worldwise to care anymore.
I threw away a lot of interesting puzzle pieces over the years out of fear. Now it's all out in the open, and actually used by the MSM to make us look like kooks.

I was there seeing it in print before everyone toted a super computer in their pocket.

Its on video for fucks sake

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Its on video for fucks sake

And I acknowledged that....for fucks sake!
Didn't I say they disseminate info like that openly?
Are the pics of McVeigh at the Waco compound wearing an ATF jacket on video? Hell no!
He was selling bumper stickers 3 miles away!

I don't care if you believe me, hell I hope you don't. Last thing I want is a following like Mike from Michigan had.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

@mijp5

The point I was making. I saw the photo myself in SOF magazine, of which I was a yearly subscriber at the time.

Lots of folks saw it. The editors were inundated with people referencing the photos and talking about it in Letters to the Editor. It caused quite a stir as I remember, and the editors told folks to just drop it, "it wasn't McVeigh". Lots of folks thought it was.
This was before any Yahoo with a phone could edit a pic..... hence my super computer reference.

 

[Va_Gentleman]

Whoa whoa.... I'm just a dumb old redneck that wears tin foil.

The thing about rednecks... is that we smelled BullShit all our lives and it is only natural when someone puts a story covered in it; we just have a natural tendency not to consume it.

 

[vwhugger]

Lots of similar stuff going on in those days. Remember Gordon Kahl?

 

[Mike Casselton]

I remember the news pretty well. Weaver was a separatist. That got changed in the news to white separatist and then to white supremacist. Fake news isn't a recent phenomenon.

In our current society, you can be a separatist as long as you're a liberal.
They call it "living off the grid".
Hell, they even have a TV program about it. It probably comes on right after that stupid tiny house show.
Both RR and Waco stink to high heaven. Both scenarios made my blood boil back then. Every time I think about either of them, the boiling starts all over again.
I opened this thread the first day it was posted. I couldn't open it again until this morning.
Blood is back to boiling

 

[pmclaine]

There was recently a pretty-good documentary on PBS about Ruby Ridge. They covered Waco a week later. I think trying to scare their lefty viewership about the evils of people who are self-sufficient, warrior-trained, and love the Constitution.

That said, the Ruby Ridge documentary on PBS was pretty well-done. It was not as pejorative as I might have expected from public-broadcasting turd-burglars. And I think did a good job covering the events without getting judgemental on either side.

Link:

There are other documentaries. There are other stances. There are some significant conspiracies. But the net of it is... IMHO, pretty well-covered in this piece.

Which surprises the hell out of me, given it was created by Public Broadcasting wingnuts.

Cheers,

Sirhr

What strikes me about that film is how "good" America seemed than even in the midst of a giant clusterfuck.

I dont know what the mindset of an individual like Lon Horiuci was but for the guys on the fence being berated there was the appearance of some shame in what they were doing, they look down at their boots quite a bit and this was before the OAF movement so its not like they were trying to hide their identities, the pristine flat bill truckers hats proclaimed exactly whom they were. The FBI SAIC seems to even be having internal struggles of sort with "WTF are we doing here" judged by his measured speaking.

The fact that the crowd gasped at the announcement Vicki Weaver was dead is an artifact of the time. People wouldnt give a shit today at the death of a mother/woman.

Things like this add to the "turning" of our society, an introduction of coarseness, and lack of civility that makes just about any outrage acceptable today.

The story is sad, but to think this was only 1992 and to note the changes, not for the better mind you, is really sad.