The 2 models I am looking at is the Springfield M1A loaded National Match or the DPMS AR10 SASS. What is your pick and why? Thanks guys
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Ok I have a poll question M1A or AR10 SASS
- Thread starter 220 Swift AI
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Get the SASS then, the M1A is an awsome battle rifle but will never match the accuracy of the AR. If you really plan to shoot NRA matches get the M1A.
Sold my FN L1A1 to get my DPMS LR308 many years ago instead of M1 - have never thought it a bad decision
SASS, hands down. I own both the DPMS and the M1A loaded. The SASS is more accurate. I like the M1A, and wouldn't sell it, but the Mag change is finicky, with out a lot of practice.
Maybe a car analogy isn't appropriate, but maybe it is... Would you rather a '69 Dodge Charger (The Dukes of Hazzard General Lee) or a 2014 Dodge Charger? Sub in your favorite muscle car that is still in production, if the charger doesn't resonate. The former has cool that cannot be duplicated but the latter is "tops" in all performance categories.
I've had both, still have the M1A but am looking at building another 308 AR. The only reason I sold my DPMS SASS was stupidity, I should have re-barreled it with a medium weight shilen or JP barrel and kept it.
So yeah basically buy both if possible.
So yeah basically buy both if possible.
I have both the a Devine, TX M1A NM and a DPMS SASS. The M1A NM is a fine rifle but not as accurate as the SASS. Only down side of the SASS it is a beast to lug around. I wouldn't sell my NM M1A either.
I would not sell my M1A either, ever, its a battle rifle, worthy of the most fierce zombie attack. It does have the best iron sights ever installed on a rifle.
I love shooting my NM with irons but the peep sight isn't that great for close in. I want to find a good mount that allows for a red dot to be mounted but still let's me use the irons.
Neither.
Get an M14 built by one of the builders who really know the rifle. SAI is ok stuff. But the options from the likes of Wolfe, Brown, Luppino are going to throw an SAI rifle under the bus (usually for less money).
I own SAI rifles, but they were all bought used.
Get an M14 built by one of the builders who really know the rifle. SAI is ok stuff. But the options from the likes of Wolfe, Brown, Luppino are going to throw an SAI rifle under the bus (usually for less money).
I own SAI rifles, but they were all bought used.
Don't figure out which one is better...GET ONE OF EACH!!! Both are incredible rifles and will serve you well, albeit for arguably different ends. 
Got both here too. My M1A is a SAI Nat'l Match and shoots as good as the SASS. Plus, it's just.....cooler.
The M1a is my sentimental favorite. I have two of them and have owned two others. I could not get even luke warm to the AR platform since 68 when the took my M14 away and stuck me with an M16.
All that being said if I had to shoot competition it would be the AR platform. I have 6 of them and they are better accuracy wise. Once dialed in and hand loads worked out they stay put.
The M1a is like a moody mistress. Sometimes hot and great sometimes just a bitch.
All that being said if I had to shoot competition it would be the AR platform. I have 6 of them and they are better accuracy wise. Once dialed in and hand loads worked out they stay put.
The M1a is like a moody mistress. Sometimes hot and great sometimes just a bitch.
This is either going to be a good time or a real awful time to get a new DPMS SASS.
DPMS just came out with the new GII version. So far the only major complaint I can find is it craters primers.
I have the GII Recon and I have put about 200 rounds through it with zero issues other than the cratered primers. If you reload you will appreciate the neat pile of brass it makes.
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DPMS just came out with the new GII version. So far the only major complaint I can find is it craters primers.
I have the GII Recon and I have put about 200 rounds through it with zero issues other than the cratered primers. If you reload you will appreciate the neat pile of brass it makes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Love the M1A I used when I was still able to compete in NRA Highpower matches and will not sell it. But for inherent accuracy, I would go with the AR10 platform. Another advantage to it is being able to swap out parts, upgrade, accessorize, etc. Being able to have multiple upper assemblies is a real plus. For instance, I have uppers in .260 Remington and .308.
Richard
Richard
M1A/M14 is an obsolete rifle. If you want one for nastalga or for fun, then go for it. A well built one is not cheap.
AR10 platform beats it in just about every category. With that being said, I would look elsewhere before I bought a DPMS. The MWS and SCAR17 are not that much more expensive. Both are much higher quality and you can trust your life to them.
AR10 platform beats it in just about every category. With that being said, I would look elsewhere before I bought a DPMS. The MWS and SCAR17 are not that much more expensive. Both are much higher quality and you can trust your life to them.
So obsolete that the military pulled remaining inventories of parts and assemblies to field rifles in the sandbox.
Its not uber high tech or cutting edge but it works and still works well.
Its great to know the SEALS selected an obsolete nostalgia weapon to use and still being inventoried by some branches.
Mk 14 Enhanced Battle Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bottom line, if you anticipate hand to hand , last man standing, no ammo left, getting over run, bayonet type fighting, get the M1a with lug. If not, get the AR first then get a M1a with lug and bayonet just in case.
They were pulled out of depots because they recognized the need for something with better barrier penetration and longer terminal effects and there was a void of weapons in that area. It was a piss poor initative that failed. Most were issued with no cleaning kits, 1 mag (with no additional mags in the system) , no optics or optics without mounts. Most units had to use delinked m80 ball ammo beacuse 118 went to the snipers and SOCOM. It was a cluster fuck. I remmember units begging people back home to send them m14 mags and trying to find a smith mount beacuse the M14 sucks balls for optics. They were used because they were free and/or the service was to cheap or didn't have the time to procure a modern weapon system. A Free gun sitting in cosmoline at CRANE or Rock Island(or wherever they keep the shit) is an easier sell than the 50+ Million and years of contracting fucktardery that comes along with buying weapons.
It was shit, and soon after they were pulled back and DMR gunners were issued ACOG's and bipods to throw on their M4's or if they were REALLY lucky, a MK12 SPR from AMU.
Who knows why the SEALS used it? Maybe it was the institutional comfort from running the m21 variants for years or the fact they have the dedicated armor support that is required to keep that obsolete hunk of shit running.
I have just about every Navy small arm from the last 500 years, 20 feet from my desk to finger fuck all day If I want. I am well aware of the M14 and it's variants. The FAL would have been a much better choice, if were still talking about the 1960's. Today, they both don't come close to the Mk11, AR10 or SCAR17.
Want to take a guess what the big push in developing the 17 was? Lets just say it was not because of the 14's stellar reliability and reputation.
Like I said, buy the 14 if you want a toy or a range gun or for nostalgia. For a working gun or something to trust your life to, or shooting for score... the 10 destroys it in every category.
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The same analogy can be directed at the 1911 platform yet it lives on and in use,just saying........
When the AR10 , MK11 or SCAR in any flavor has the same field deployment time and service reputation it will be on equal or better stature.
How the AR destroys it in ever category yet not used to the same extent, conditions and trigger time is pure opinion.
Someone that classifies the M14 / M1A as a "toy" or "range gun" has a serious lack of judgement.
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Nah, just love to hear opinions not based on fact/s or empirical data to support an opinion.
Then again I do not have just about every Navy small arm from the last 500 years, 20 feet from my desk to finger fuck all day If I want.
Sucks to be you then.
Everything I stated above is fact. You are just too dense to listen to reason. You are going to believe whatever you want to believe.
Comparing it to a 1911 just proves my point. Want to know why CAG was able to run them? All the armor level support was provided, and most guys had 2-3 pistols assigned to them because at any given time, 1 of them was deadlined. Even they gave up 1911's because the armorer support was not worth the cost along with downfalls of a heavy, maintenance intensive, and archaic design that was surpassed year ago.
Want to guess what rifle was tied with the shortest term as a national service rifle, in American History? 4.5 Years.........
Want to take a guess why it has been displaced by other rifles including the Ar-15/M16(with its inferior BC and energy) in everything from the military to comps to LE work? How many M14's you see out there winning the Service Rifle Comps? Let me guess, you never competed? Maybe thats why your so fucking ignorant to the level of work and maintenance required to keep them running.
MK11/SR-25 has been in service for around 25 years and is only getting more popular. SCAR17 has been out for what, 5-7 years... and is still a front line weapon, getting a major overhaul not unlike the M16 in it's early days.
It's not opinion, its fact. How many people you hear on this site are having M14/M1A's fully built to hang with GAP10/JP/SR/MWS to actually compete or stake their lives to? Name one category that the M14 beats any of these rifles in, other than more time spent working on them trying to get them to shoot.
I advise you to do a little more thinking and a little less typing.
I am classified master in NRA service rifle and fired across the course many times using the mouse gun, M1 & M1A.
You should guess again or buy a vowel~
If you want to see "fucking ignorant" look in a mirror or other shiny surface.
People like you are proof anal sex works.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...stock-rear-pillar-installation-pic-heavy.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...hassis-install-standard-barrel-pic-heavy.html
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Obviously, I was just making an observation. This has been a very informative thread.
220 just take my advice, I am an avid fan of the M1A, actually shot some old 14's in the Army, love the rifle and if I was going to war that would include arctic, desert, medium jungle, I would take the M14. If I want to shoot groups and not have to learn the art that is M1a ownership and accurizing I strongly suggest the 308 AR platform. Some talk down the DPMS, they are AR snobs, I own two of the DPMS 308 AR's, one a SASS and one I built into an SASS, they shoot great groups, rivaling most bolt guns under 800 yards. You can get a super match M1a for the price of a LMT or you can get a 260 AR and a 308 AR from DPMS. Take a look at their new offerings and also look at the RRA 308's. All good to go.
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I normally get into AR10 vs. M14 Discussions at least 3 times a year. I guess it's a slow year? Anyways, AR10 all day long.
As a HOBBYIST AMONG OPERATORS, here is my Hobbyist view of things.
1) AR10's come with a Scope mount included:
This is huge! A quality scope mount on a M14 will cost you about $200, and even if you do get a mount, they come loose quite often. A M14 receiver tries to twist it off. AR10, the mount can't come loose (because it's part of the upper receiver). Another problem you will find with a scoped M14 is cheekweld, actually it's more of a shoulderweld.
2) Bolt swap on an AR10 is easy:
On an AR10, just crack her open and put in the new bolt. With M14's, a bolt swap is a complicated process. Once you put in your new M14bolt, you have to lap the bolt and time the barrel to get that "magic headspace". If you have a Smith do it, he will charge you a pretty penny.
3) Barrel Swap is easy on AR10:
With an AR10, all you do is unscrew the old barrel, and screw in new barrel. No magic headspace needed. The barrels come pre-headspace from the factory. With M1A's, you have to find the "magic headspace" after you install a new barrel by timing the barrel and lapping the bolt.
4) Better Parts availability for AR10:
You can get everything for an AR10 directly from the manufacturer if you have to. With M14's, parts are not evn available from the Mfgr, and on top of that, surplus USGI parts are not really easily available anymore. Extractors, bolts, BCG, buffers, are easy to get for the AR10.
5) Better Aftermarket accessories for AR10:
For AR10s. the choices for triggers, stocks, and forends is endless. How about a nice trick barrel for an AR10? Yep, your choice. Noveske, White Oak, Schillen, etc, and you can install the barrel yourself without trying to figure out the magic headspace. Also, try getting a nice trigger for an M1A, tell me how that works out for you.
6) AR10 has the better chassis:
Reason AR10 has a better chassis is because it does not have one! It has an upper and lower, and with the correct forend/rails, you can easily FF the barrel assembly. A quality Chassis for the M1A will run you about $700.
7) AR10's are inherently more accurate:
AR style locking lugs and naturally FF barrel, you will find that it takes a lot less work to make an AR10 accurate.
8) AR10's are easy to Smith:
You can do everything on the AR10 yourself. Bolt swap, barrel swap, extractor swap, etc. No "magic headspace needed". If an AR10 does go down, they are easy to get back up. Lots of little parts on the M14 that can fail, and when they do, it's not easy to replace them and get the gun working again. Both the M14 and AR10 are fairly reliable, but what makes the AR10 10 times better than a M14 is that you easily get it up and running easier when it does break.
9) AR10's can handle hot rounds better
Hot rounds are not a problem with the AR10, the AR10 laughs at hot rounds. With M14, all it takes one hot round and say hello to Mr. Bent Oprod. A bent oprod on a M14 will turn your M14 into a club. USGI Oprods for M14's are no longer available, and even the cheap ones go for about $200. M118LR was actually loaded lighter because all the combat M14's were getting beat up.
10) AR10's does not beat up brass as much as an M14. The AR10 can get about 10 reloads from one case (LC case). The M14 beats up brass so much that you would be lucky to get 5 reloads. #10 is really for reloaders only. I know all you Operators are too busy training and do not have to reload.
11) AR10's look better.
This should be #1. Looks matter! Looks are everything.
The Cartmann .308 Family:
As a HOBBYIST AMONG OPERATORS, here is my Hobbyist view of things.
1) AR10's come with a Scope mount included:
This is huge! A quality scope mount on a M14 will cost you about $200, and even if you do get a mount, they come loose quite often. A M14 receiver tries to twist it off. AR10, the mount can't come loose (because it's part of the upper receiver). Another problem you will find with a scoped M14 is cheekweld, actually it's more of a shoulderweld.
2) Bolt swap on an AR10 is easy:
On an AR10, just crack her open and put in the new bolt. With M14's, a bolt swap is a complicated process. Once you put in your new M14bolt, you have to lap the bolt and time the barrel to get that "magic headspace". If you have a Smith do it, he will charge you a pretty penny.
3) Barrel Swap is easy on AR10:
With an AR10, all you do is unscrew the old barrel, and screw in new barrel. No magic headspace needed. The barrels come pre-headspace from the factory. With M1A's, you have to find the "magic headspace" after you install a new barrel by timing the barrel and lapping the bolt.
4) Better Parts availability for AR10:
You can get everything for an AR10 directly from the manufacturer if you have to. With M14's, parts are not evn available from the Mfgr, and on top of that, surplus USGI parts are not really easily available anymore. Extractors, bolts, BCG, buffers, are easy to get for the AR10.
5) Better Aftermarket accessories for AR10:
For AR10s. the choices for triggers, stocks, and forends is endless. How about a nice trick barrel for an AR10? Yep, your choice. Noveske, White Oak, Schillen, etc, and you can install the barrel yourself without trying to figure out the magic headspace. Also, try getting a nice trigger for an M1A, tell me how that works out for you.
6) AR10 has the better chassis:
Reason AR10 has a better chassis is because it does not have one! It has an upper and lower, and with the correct forend/rails, you can easily FF the barrel assembly. A quality Chassis for the M1A will run you about $700.
7) AR10's are inherently more accurate:
AR style locking lugs and naturally FF barrel, you will find that it takes a lot less work to make an AR10 accurate.
8) AR10's are easy to Smith:
You can do everything on the AR10 yourself. Bolt swap, barrel swap, extractor swap, etc. No "magic headspace needed". If an AR10 does go down, they are easy to get back up. Lots of little parts on the M14 that can fail, and when they do, it's not easy to replace them and get the gun working again. Both the M14 and AR10 are fairly reliable, but what makes the AR10 10 times better than a M14 is that you easily get it up and running easier when it does break.
9) AR10's can handle hot rounds better
Hot rounds are not a problem with the AR10, the AR10 laughs at hot rounds. With M14, all it takes one hot round and say hello to Mr. Bent Oprod. A bent oprod on a M14 will turn your M14 into a club. USGI Oprods for M14's are no longer available, and even the cheap ones go for about $200. M118LR was actually loaded lighter because all the combat M14's were getting beat up.
10) AR10's does not beat up brass as much as an M14. The AR10 can get about 10 reloads from one case (LC case). The M14 beats up brass so much that you would be lucky to get 5 reloads. #10 is really for reloaders only. I know all you Operators are too busy training and do not have to reload.
11) AR10's look better.
This should be #1. Looks matter! Looks are everything.
The Cartmann .308 Family:
I normally get into AR10 vs. M14 Discussions at least 3 times a year. I guess it's a slow year? Anyways, AR10 all day long.
As a HOBBYIST AMONG OPERATORS, here is my Hobbyist view of things.
1) AR10's come with a Scope mount included:
This is huge! A quality scope mount on a M14 will cost you about $200, and even if you do get a mount, they come loose quite often. A M14 receiver tries to twist it off. AR10, the mount can't come loose (because it's part of the upper receiver). Another problem you will find with a scoped M14 is cheekweld, actually it's more of a shoulderweld.
2) Bolt swap on an AR10 is easy:
On an AR10, just crack her open and put in the new bolt. With M14's, a bolt swap is a complicated process. Once you put in your new M14bolt, you have to lap the bolt and time the barrel to get that "magic headspace". If you have a Smith do it, he will charge you a pretty penny.
3) Barrel Swap is easy on AR10:
With an AR10, all you do is unscrew the old barrel, and screw in new barrel. No magic headspace needed. The barrels come pre-headspace from the factory. With M1A's, you have to find the "magic headspace" after you install a new barrel by timing the barrel and lapping the bolt.
4) Better Parts availability for AR10:
You can get everything for an AR10 directly from the manufacturer if you have to. With M14's, parts are not evn available from the Mfgr, and on top of that, surplus USGI parts are not really easily available anymore. Extractors, bolts, BCG, buffers, are easy to get for the AR10.
5) Better Aftermarket accessories for AR10:
For AR10s. the choices for triggers, stocks, and forends is endless. How about a nice trick barrel for an AR10? Yep, your choice. Noveske, White Oak, Schillen, etc, and you can install the barrel yourself without trying to figure out the magic headspace. Also, try getting a nice trigger for an M1A, tell me how that works out for you.
6) AR10 has the better chassis:
Reason AR10 has a better chassis is because it does not have one! It has an upper and lower, and with the correct forend/rails, you can easily FF the barrel assembly. A quality Chassis for the M1A will run you about $700.
7) AR10's are inherently more accurate:
AR style locking lugs and naturally FF barrel, you will find that it takes a lot less work to make an AR10 accurate.
8) AR10's are easy to Smith:
You can do everything on the AR10 yourself. Bolt swap, barrel swap, extractor swap, etc. No "magic headspace needed". If an AR10 does go down, they are easy to get back up. Lots of little parts on the M14 that can fail, and when they do, it's not easy to replace them and get the gun working again. Both the M14 and AR10 are fairly reliable, but what makes the AR10 10 times better than a M14 is that you easily get it up and running easier when it does break.
9) AR10's can handle hot rounds better
Hot rounds are not a problem with the AR10, the AR10 laughs at hot rounds. With M14, all it takes one hot round and say hello to Mr. Bent Oprod. A bent oprod on a M14 will turn your M14 into a club. USGI Oprods for M14's are no longer available, and even the cheap ones go for about $200. M118LR was actually loaded lighter because all the combat M14's were getting beat up.
10) AR10's does not beat up brass as much as an M14. The AR10 can get about 10 reloads from one case (LC case). The M14 beats up brass so much that you would be lucky to get 5 reloads. #10 is really for reloaders only. I know all you Operators are too busy training and do not have to reload.
11) AR10's look better.
This should be #1. Looks matter! Looks are everything.
The Cartmann .308 Family:
While that is one cute little interracial family you have there, have you actually drug any of them out of the safe into the real world and killed anything with them? I have noticed one thing about this forum, there are lots of armchair snipers with pretty guns that shoot incredible geoups. Everyone can talk shit on the m14 platform all they want, but in my admittedly limited experience its been accurate, reliable and easy to maintain. I have a fairly good cross section of rifles ranging from 5mm Remington to 338 lm, and my go to rifle is my m1a. Its been there, done that and accounted for a handful of deer and yotes.
OK well maybe I should of stated I have owned a AR10 platform before it was a armalite AR10T with the SS match barrel. I traded it off. But in looking to get a new 308 gas gun and it's between these 2. My bolt guns are for the long range work in my eyes.
Looks like you have become emotionally attached to your M1A. No said you have to stop loving it.
I buy 1-2 guns a month. If I don't become attached to a gun it generally gets sold or traded off. The FAL, G3, m14 and ar-10 all came about in the same time period. All are still in production in one variation or another. IMO calling any of them obsolescent in the face of these facts is pretty much stupid, but that seems to be par for the course in the case of the guilty party here.
I usually avoid this topic which comes up about every other month, but since the gauntlet was thrown down.
As someone who has BTDT (Mil & LE Sniper & Civilian Competitor) for 20+ years, with an M21 as well as a few others, "Reality Check":
Look at the current top 2 Mil Sniper Competitions, Int Sniper Comp at Ft Benning and the USASOC Match at Ft Bragg, and you will not see one shooter running any form of an M1A platform.
So if you want to get down to what the top tier of Mil Operators are running (BY CHOICE), it is not significantly in the mix, and per some very well written information above (thanks EricCartmann), there are a number of very solid reason behind that.
Also per above, if you want to check the firing line at Camp Perry, outside of a Vintage Rifle Match, you are not going to see anyone competing and winning with any form of an M1A.
An M1A will work, no arguing that fact. But any of the current platforms, AR or SCAR, are significantly better performers for many reasons. If you want to argue that with the Top Tier Mil Operators using them, best of luck with that one!
The "Current & Future Military Reality":
M110s on the line at Ft Benning
LaRue OBR at the Int Sniper Comp
GAP at the USASOC Match
SCAR Heavy with SOCOM
On the civilian side, Armalite, DPMS, JP, KAC, LARUE, LWRC, FNH, take your pick of any one of those or many others, there are pros and cons to all of them, but any of them are far better than an M1A.
Sorry, but facts are facts.
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Right on.
My main beef with the DPMS SASS I had and the M1A loaded I still have is size and weight. DPMS SASS with IOR 3-18 and a loaded mag was like 16lbs and the M1A with a loaded mag is maybe 1.5lbs behind that figure. Meanwhile the 16" 308 AR I built weighed in @ 11lbs scoped and loaded and it could've lost another pound or so without a decrease in performance.
For example you could get one of the Armalite chrome lined carbines, put a magpul stock on it and an armalite quad rail. You'd be into it as much or less than the rifles you're looking at now, it'd be as accurate as the M1A while still being a lightweight carbine that you could sling around and shoot offhand without much trouble.
That's just my take on it anyways. Anymore I want my semis to be as compact and lightweight as possible.
I will not argue that the ar-10 is more accurate and easier to maintain, that's why I have a lwrc repr with a NF on it. I still like my m1a better.
I don't hate the M14 either, I am just saying it is hard to smith, hard to accessories, hard to find spares for, hard to scope, etc. If you are angry that it is hard to smith, hard to accessories, hard to find spares for, hard to scope, etc, please don't get angry with me. I am not the one that designed the M1A/M14.
If I end up with the sass I will dump a few pounds off. Not a big fan of the PRS stock or the grip for that matter. The armalite had some good points but it was a bitch to get pmags for it and steel mags were a damn pricey.
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