Very nice. I think you convinced me to buy that rifle sir. I literally want to go out and get the exact same one. And the nice thing is its something I can actually afford.
Off-topic: Long lost third cousin twice-removed, is that you? LOL
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On Remington 700 Long Range, 30-06
- Thread starter Niles Coyote
- Start date
Very nice. I think you convinced me to buy that rifle sir. I literally want to go out and get the exact same one. And the nice thing is its something I can actually afford.
Off-topic: Long lost third cousin twice-removed, is that you? LOL
LOL, you never know. I’d ask great grand dad Wile E. but he pass years ago after a anvil fell on him... strangest thing, really...
Anywho
On to more messing around...
I tried out H1000 today with the 208’s and these are the velocities I clocked over the magnetospeed.
Again, Winchester brass, CCI Mag primer and 208 seated .020 shy of the lands, three shot strings.
Not having any load data for the combo I took a stab at it and used 61 grains as my start point as I did find load data for 220 grain bullet. Charges tested were 61-64 grains in one grain steps.
61: 2644, 2645, 2624 for a adv= 2637 SD=11
62: 2672, 2682, 2672 for a adv= 2675 SD=5
63: 2717, 2675, 2692 for a adv= 2694 SD=21
64: 2742, 2757, 2759 for a adv= 2752 SD=9
This is a slow powder, slower than RL-22 and I reached case capacity before reaching any pressure. When I was loading the 64 grain charge it was clear I could not fit any more powder in the case with out seating the bullet longer and I also noted that the three bullets with 64 grains had not allowed for a full .020 jump to the lands, more like .015-.018. Also, it is only because of the free bore this chamber has that I was able to use these loads as all loads had powder at or past the neck shoulder junction and 63g and 64g were well into the neck.
Judging by my target and velocity numbers I believe there to be a nice load in the 61-62 range. This may turn out to be the perfect powder for me when I get some 230 grain Bergers in.
OH MY, this is going to be AWESOME!
Manners T2A style
A detailed strip, clean and then bedding is in store for tonight!
That looks NICE.
I got some 230 Berger target hybrids in, OAL to the lands equals 3.604" with a little more than .050" of room left over in the internal mag box. The transition on the bullets bearing surface to boattail looks to be lining up with the neck shoulder junction of the case. Look for velocity data with RL-22 and H1000 in a couple days.
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Velocity data from testing 230 grain Berger target hybrids seated .015 off the lands in Winchester cases primed with Federal magnum primers. I used two powders, Reloader 22 and H1000. Listed velocity is an average from three shots except where noted and taken from a magnetospeed. Outside air temperature was around 55 degrees
First up was RL-22
54.5 grains: 2624fps sd=5 es=11
55 grains: 2648 stopped after one shot as I had an ejector imprint on the case head. No other pressure signs were apparent on bolt lift/extraction or primer radius.
H1000
58 grains: 2578 SD=10, ES=20
58.5 grains: 2578 SD=16, ES=29
59 grains: 2590 SD=3, ES=6
59.5 grains: 2609 SD=10, ES=19
60 grains: 2632 SD=2, ES=4
60.5 grains: 2633 SD=10, ES=20
61 grains: 2689 stopped after one shot as I had an ejector imprint on the case head and I didn’t like the sudden jump in velocity. No other pressure signs were apparent on bolt lift/extraction or primer radius. Loads 60 and above were lightly compressed.
Groups at 100 yards were ok but noting real exciting. However, with H1000 groups tightened up somewhat and impacts were in the same area (in an OCW kind of way but I was not shooting round robin for this test) on the whole grains... I attribute my less than great groups to a very uncomfortable bench as my usual prone area is still mostly mud.
I am going to explore a couple tenths either way of 59 and 60 grains of H1000 and 54 grains of RL-22 but at a longer distance.
First up was RL-22
54.5 grains: 2624fps sd=5 es=11
55 grains: 2648 stopped after one shot as I had an ejector imprint on the case head. No other pressure signs were apparent on bolt lift/extraction or primer radius.
H1000
58 grains: 2578 SD=10, ES=20
58.5 grains: 2578 SD=16, ES=29
59 grains: 2590 SD=3, ES=6
59.5 grains: 2609 SD=10, ES=19
60 grains: 2632 SD=2, ES=4
60.5 grains: 2633 SD=10, ES=20
61 grains: 2689 stopped after one shot as I had an ejector imprint on the case head and I didn’t like the sudden jump in velocity. No other pressure signs were apparent on bolt lift/extraction or primer radius. Loads 60 and above were lightly compressed.
Groups at 100 yards were ok but noting real exciting. However, with H1000 groups tightened up somewhat and impacts were in the same area (in an OCW kind of way but I was not shooting round robin for this test) on the whole grains... I attribute my less than great groups to a very uncomfortable bench as my usual prone area is still mostly mud.
I am going to explore a couple tenths either way of 59 and 60 grains of H1000 and 54 grains of RL-22 but at a longer distance.
Two of the best -06 powders not mentioned here are RL19 and VN160 (If you can find it)
For me, anything less than 2800 fps with a 208 is a bum load.. But I shoot a 28" barrel. Both RL19 and VN160 give me 2875 easily. I think once you use RL19 you will abandon RL22 for anything but 230 Bergers.
It is easy to be happy with those velocities until you discover there is something out there that will do better..
The biggest secret a 30-06 keeps is it has no problem getting 300 win mag velocities in the 190's and 185's. When your magneto speed clocks 2950 FPS with a Berger VLD, you know you are on to something good.
Some other good powders not mentioned here are Norma MRP, 204, and URP, H100V, V560, Winchester 760 and 780 is good for the heavier pills, H414 for 178 Amax's, AA2700, Ramshot Hunter is pretty awesome as well....
I'd venture to say there are more powders that will work well in a 30-06 than any other cartridge ever made. It makes load development a real drag if you are searching for the best load that produces the best accuracy and velocity without over doing it in the pressure category.
For me, anything less than 2800 fps with a 208 is a bum load.. But I shoot a 28" barrel. Both RL19 and VN160 give me 2875 easily. I think once you use RL19 you will abandon RL22 for anything but 230 Bergers.
It is easy to be happy with those velocities until you discover there is something out there that will do better..
The biggest secret a 30-06 keeps is it has no problem getting 300 win mag velocities in the 190's and 185's. When your magneto speed clocks 2950 FPS with a Berger VLD, you know you are on to something good.
Some other good powders not mentioned here are Norma MRP, 204, and URP, H100V, V560, Winchester 760 and 780 is good for the heavier pills, H414 for 178 Amax's, AA2700, Ramshot Hunter is pretty awesome as well....
I'd venture to say there are more powders that will work well in a 30-06 than any other cartridge ever made. It makes load development a real drag if you are searching for the best load that produces the best accuracy and velocity without over doing it in the pressure category.
First time out with 230’s at 1000. Something strange is going on here. I believe I loaded the ammo with the proper powder charge weight and should have been at 2630ish but when I back checked drops from 300, 500, 600, 700, 800 and 1000 with JBM with current conditions I am only at 2510.
Top impact was sighter... vertical was about 3 inches with the other 4
230's really ring the steel at 1k
Top impact was sighter... vertical was about 3 inches with the other 4
230's really ring the steel at 1k
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For the current price they are hard to beat. I like both the 30-06 and 7mm mag long range models I have.
Yea I was thinking either the 7 or 300wm. Was looking at the rum but decided it probably isn't a good idea for me. I however now need to wait since I found the other rifle. I will own some more soon after though! (Gf is already mad so it can't hurt anymore to get more rifles right? The damage is already done. )
I too have been working on loads for the 06 with RL 22.I have been using LC69 and LC match 67 brass with a 190 CC.I havent pulled out the chrono yet as all my loading stuff is still packed up from a move.I have loaded up to 60.5 gr of RL22 with no pressure signs in military brass.I hope to work on this project more soon.The rifle is a rem 700 action with a Rem.308 pss barrel with the chamber cut off and recrowned at 22 in.The barrel is a 1/12.I may have to load a few 208 amaxes to see if they will stabilize.
69.7g H1000 under a 168 smk in winchester brass for right around 2875fps. That got them to touch at 100 yards. I have not taken it out long yet.
Thanks I've heard 70 grains of 1000. Which is just above max so I'm going to load 69.5 for my sighters. See want I get, then continue to my ladder test. Thanks I'm using Berger 168
Tried out a few 185 grain Berger hunting hybrids seated about -.095 from the lands in new Winchester brass and federal mag primers for pressure and velocity :
H4350
57.5= 2930, 2908, 2893
58.0= 2920, 2925
58.5= 2949, 2935
I stopped there as I had one case that had very slight ejector polish on the head stamp, primers and bolt lift were ok
RL-22
60.0= 2891, 2913, 2885
60.5= 2905, 2929
61.0= 2937, 2929
I ran out of room in the new cases for powder, no pressure signs on any of the cases.
H4350
57.5= 2930, 2908, 2893
58.0= 2920, 2925
58.5= 2949, 2935
I stopped there as I had one case that had very slight ejector polish on the head stamp, primers and bolt lift were ok
RL-22
60.0= 2891, 2913, 2885
60.5= 2905, 2929
61.0= 2937, 2929
I ran out of room in the new cases for powder, no pressure signs on any of the cases.
I had a chance to play with mine last weekend. I'm really starting to like this rifle. I only went out to the range to finish barrel break in and try to work up a varmint load. I threw some 168MK loads together completely at random and they look like they'll shoot sub .5 MOA. With a little more effort I should get the 125 TNT's to settle around .5 MOA as well.
Edit: Don't look too closely at POI, I was screwing with the scope adjustments between groups.
Edit: Don't look too closely at POI, I was screwing with the scope adjustments between groups.
Attachments
Your RL22/185 Berger results are pretty consistent with my old data using RL22 and moly'd 190 SMK.
No, I got derailed by a 6xc and have not made time anything else... and I am down to a handful of 230's. Was there anything specific you were looking for?
Nah, just curious if you got the velocity with 230s nailed down.
Still look like 208s @ mid-2700s?
Thanks!
Still look like 208s @ mid-2700s?
Thanks!
I haven't shot any of the 230's, but with a 26" bbl, I think 2600-2650 may be realistic.
Here are a couple results I've had with limited testing on a couple other heavieweights in the 30-06.
240gr SMK
RL22 - 56.0 gr.
CCI 200
Rem brass
2620 fps (26.5" bbl)
225 Hdy BTHP (moly'd)
4000-MR - 57.0 gr
CCI 200
Win brass
2590 fps (22.5" bbl) - there may be room to go up a little more here, no pressure signs at 57.0 gr.
Makes sense... A couple days before I posted my question, Cheaper Than Dirt had them in stock at all warehouses, then *poof* all sold out.
I really need to take this back to the range, LOL. [MENTION=47204]BoilerUP[/MENTION] look for a update on the 230's, 208's and maybe 185's next weekend.
Where was that? I'm not too far from you, northern indiana, and can't seem to locate one at cabelas. Maybe you just want to get rid of yours?
Nope, dont care to sell it. My LGS didn't have one in stock but was able to order it for me. Granger Gun in Granger...
[MENTION=47204]BoilerUP[/MENTION] 230's are loaded up and I also decided to revisit H1000 at 61.5 and 62 grains with 208's... even if it's not as fast as RL-22 it may just be a good all year load if the long range accuracy is there. Might have some data to share tomorrow.
Niles,
How did the 185 Classic Hunter work out in accuracy? I plan to try these next.
Tried out a few 185 grain Berger hunting hybrids seated about -.095 from the lands in new Winchester brass and federal mag primers for pressure and velocity :
H4350
57.5= 2930, 2908, 2893
58.0= 2920, 2925
58.5= 2949, 2935
I stopped there as I had one case that had very slight ejector polish on the head stamp, primers and bolt lift were ok
How did the 185 Classic Hunter work out in accuracy? I plan to try these next.
Tried out a few 185 grain Berger hunting hybrids seated about -.095 from the lands in new Winchester brass and federal mag primers for pressure and velocity :
H4350
57.5= 2930, 2908, 2893
58.0= 2920, 2925
58.5= 2949, 2935
I stopped there as I had one case that had very slight ejector polish on the head stamp, primers and bolt lift were ok
[MENTION=30280]trailrider121[/MENTION] looking at my 100y target my group of three at 57.5g shot into 3/4" ctc, understand I was looking for velocity data and pressure when I shot these more so than group size and the next two were only two shots each, 58g is 5/8" ctc and 58.5g is just a hair under one inch ctc. Once I get some more bullets I plan to test 56-58g at 300 and maybe play with some H4831sc too.
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I'm glad you posted this thread. I am a .30-06 shooter and was wanting a factory heavy barrel rifle but when I finally find out there is one, I can't find one because of the recall.
The funny thing is I emailed Remington about a year ago asking if they were going to build a .30-06 with the varmint barrel and they said no.
The funny thing is I emailed Remington about a year ago asking if they were going to build a .30-06 with the varmint barrel and they said no.
Tagged for some good reading!
I've been playing with an '06 lately as well. I'll be curious to hear how your results are with the 185's and H4831sc. I should be loading some Berger 185 Tactical bullets over some H4831sc this month also.....hoping to get somewhere in the 2850 neighborhood. Good luck to you!
I've been playing with an '06 lately as well. I'll be curious to hear how your results are with the 185's and H4831sc. I should be loading some Berger 185 Tactical bullets over some H4831sc this month also.....hoping to get somewhere in the 2850 neighborhood. Good luck to you!
I was able to hit the range today... not a very productive day. I am not sure if it was just because I was baking in the sun and uncomfortable that led to some less than stellar groups, mirage, a load that soured or having come off a high from shooting my 6xc at 1k while setting a personal best the other day... Whatever the reason, groups were large and disappointing.
Using the magnetospeed I recorded my 60 grain charge with 7 shots. Average velocity was 2538fps, SD=31 ES=91... One shot was significantly faster than the rest at 2608 and when I removed the shot the numbers changed to 2528fps for 6, SD=7 ES=22, which doesn’t sound that bad except for the fact that when I shot the 1k target it recorded a MOA+ group. So twice now I have confirmed long range data showing 2500’s rather than 2600 with the 230’s. I am not sure what was going on when I tested these a couple months back and got the higher velocity reading.
I tried 208’s with h1000 next and the velocity spread were quite large, (these are 5 shot averages) 61.5=2647 sd=28 and 62=2663 sd=29...
Targets at 700
and 1k
That’s it for now... I may have some more data this weekend with the 57.8 charge of RL-22 and 208’s and maybe some 185’s I found that I forgot I had.
Using the magnetospeed I recorded my 60 grain charge with 7 shots. Average velocity was 2538fps, SD=31 ES=91... One shot was significantly faster than the rest at 2608 and when I removed the shot the numbers changed to 2528fps for 6, SD=7 ES=22, which doesn’t sound that bad except for the fact that when I shot the 1k target it recorded a MOA+ group. So twice now I have confirmed long range data showing 2500’s rather than 2600 with the 230’s. I am not sure what was going on when I tested these a couple months back and got the higher velocity reading.
I tried 208’s with h1000 next and the velocity spread were quite large, (these are 5 shot averages) 61.5=2647 sd=28 and 62=2663 sd=29...
Targets at 700
and 1k
That’s it for now... I may have some more data this weekend with the 57.8 charge of RL-22 and 208’s and maybe some 185’s I found that I forgot I had.
Some more numbers for you all.
Conditions today: 29.04 station pressure and between 68 and 74 degrees when testing.
185 Berger classic hunting hybrids with 57.5g H4350 in Winchester brass and CCI standard primers oal at 3.330 which jumps them around .095= 2868, 2852, 2880= 2860 SD= 14 ES= 28
I shot three groups of 5 at 300, round robin, of 57, 57.5 and 58grains. 58 grains had the best vertical with 4 landing in 1.5" and the 5th dropping and making the total measurement 3"... all groups were right at MOA vertically and the largest OAL group size was 4.2" which was 57 grains. Moving forward I will test 58 grains with some changes to seating depth.
Looking at my past data while using fed mag primers the difference with the above using cci standard primers is a gain of 44fps with the mag primer. I decided to use standard primers here as I ran into light pressure signs at 58.5 using mag primers on the early post.
Next up 208's a-max and RL-22 (win case, CCI-mag primer, and bullet jumping .020) I checked velocity on 57.5 and 57.8 charges
57.5= 2776, 2788, 2787, 2765 and 2785 for adv= 2788, SD= 10, ES= 23
57.8= 2807, 2794, 2796, 2797 and 2777 for adv= 2794, SD= 10, ES= 30
Unfortunately my 1000 yard steel target had several impacts already on it so I can really say if one shot better than the other.
Conditions today: 29.04 station pressure and between 68 and 74 degrees when testing.
185 Berger classic hunting hybrids with 57.5g H4350 in Winchester brass and CCI standard primers oal at 3.330 which jumps them around .095= 2868, 2852, 2880= 2860 SD= 14 ES= 28
I shot three groups of 5 at 300, round robin, of 57, 57.5 and 58grains. 58 grains had the best vertical with 4 landing in 1.5" and the 5th dropping and making the total measurement 3"... all groups were right at MOA vertically and the largest OAL group size was 4.2" which was 57 grains. Moving forward I will test 58 grains with some changes to seating depth.
Looking at my past data while using fed mag primers the difference with the above using cci standard primers is a gain of 44fps with the mag primer. I decided to use standard primers here as I ran into light pressure signs at 58.5 using mag primers on the early post.
Next up 208's a-max and RL-22 (win case, CCI-mag primer, and bullet jumping .020) I checked velocity on 57.5 and 57.8 charges
57.5= 2776, 2788, 2787, 2765 and 2785 for adv= 2788, SD= 10, ES= 23
57.8= 2807, 2794, 2796, 2797 and 2777 for adv= 2794, SD= 10, ES= 30
Unfortunately my 1000 yard steel target had several impacts already on it so I can really say if one shot better than the other.
Thanks for all this info.
I have just gotten a 30.06 Ackley Improved built, and am getting outstanding results with RL-22, pushing 230 Bergers, with Fed 215 primers. I have been using OBT calculations, and getting 2680 fps average on a 32" barrel. No pressure signs at all, calculations are about 55K PSI. I am sure you could get quite a bit higher velocity, but I couldn't get to the next higher barrel time node without calculated over-pressure. Haven't had time to do groupings at 300 0r 500, but it bangs the gong at 1000 with authority---first shot on a 30" plate when I calculated the holds on the reticle, virtually every one made contact, and seemed to be all in the 3:00-6:00 quadrant. When I was fireforming brass, I shot through a 1" plate at 125 yds, took two shots, first went 3/4" deep and second finished. Had six shots line up to make three holes touching completely through the plate.
I will try to get some data to share, and am very thankful for all this good data you have been sharing.
I have just gotten a 30.06 Ackley Improved built, and am getting outstanding results with RL-22, pushing 230 Bergers, with Fed 215 primers. I have been using OBT calculations, and getting 2680 fps average on a 32" barrel. No pressure signs at all, calculations are about 55K PSI. I am sure you could get quite a bit higher velocity, but I couldn't get to the next higher barrel time node without calculated over-pressure. Haven't had time to do groupings at 300 0r 500, but it bangs the gong at 1000 with authority---first shot on a 30" plate when I calculated the holds on the reticle, virtually every one made contact, and seemed to be all in the 3:00-6:00 quadrant. When I was fireforming brass, I shot through a 1" plate at 125 yds, took two shots, first went 3/4" deep and second finished. Had six shots line up to make three holes touching completely through the plate.
I will try to get some data to share, and am very thankful for all this good data you have been sharing.
Gentlemen, I want one of these rifles to match in caliber my M1 Garand. As others have I assumed the lack of availability was because of the recall. Maybe not so. I know from years experience with Remingtons that with something new, Remington puts out a short production run to gage market desirability. If there is, they do another production run. I experienced this with the 700 Classic (35 Whelen) and 700 Custom (260) 700 Milspec (223) as well as a S&W 625. A E mail to Remington confirmed there will be another production run in the fall. I hope the price is close. Looks like a bargain with that stock
Testing H4831sc with 185 Berger classic hunting hybrid seated .1” off the lands. I used a magnetospeed with 3 rounds not pictured at 57.5 (2561fps) and 59.5 (2667fps)... 60grains would have been in the neck, no signs of pressure on bolt lift and primer corners were nice and round and no signs of ejector swipe under mk1 eye ball enhanced with a magnifier.
I was hoping for a little more velocity so I will go back to H4350 and back my load down as I believe the poor groups I have experienced in the past are because I am just running them to hard. So next update will be 57.8 x .97= 56 as well as 56.5 and 57 grains, in case I am off on where the node really is... which 56 should put me in the mid 2700's to low 2800’s, which will be fine... kind of like having a 30 caliber 260, LOL.
I was hoping for a little more velocity so I will go back to H4350 and back my load down as I believe the poor groups I have experienced in the past are because I am just running them to hard. So next update will be 57.8 x .97= 56 as well as 56.5 and 57 grains, in case I am off on where the node really is... which 56 should put me in the mid 2700's to low 2800’s, which will be fine... kind of like having a 30 caliber 260, LOL.
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