One in the chamber?

Maggot

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Supporter
  • Jul 27, 2007
    26,104
    29,832
    Virginia
    A couple years back we had a big discussion on htis question. One guy, Big Tuna, no longer a member, advocated for 'Israeli' carry, or an empty chamber.

    this video pretty well shows my position, that precious seconds count and could mean life or death.
     
    I never really understood the whole Israeli carry thing. People I've heard biggest argument is carrying without a holster, which I personally will never do, nor would ever recommend. Good video find. Thanks!
     
    Good video, I carry one in.

    I look at at as simplicity, along with carrying a Glock or my LCR. I want to draw, aim, bang. I like his safety point of re holstering off the body also.
     
    I used to carry with an empty chamber. After years of that I have switched over to carrying condition 1, and went to a P938. Even with good situational awareness, the extra movement of chambering a round is likely to cause a bad guy who is paying attention to shoot first and ask questions later. I pocket carry, so getting my pistol out of my pocket is not the easiest draw to begin with. Why give up any advantage?
     
    Good video!

    That said... Here we go again1

    T1yHj4q.gif
     
    Yeah because you have so much street creds to tell Israeli commandos and Mossad they are doing it wrong.

    They are doing it wrong, from the point of view of someone (me) who is going to be already behind the power curve when the fight begins because I won't be the one starting it.
     
    If youre an advocate of "israeli carry" i recommend you take some force-on-force simunition training...i gurantee youll never carry "israeli" again.

    you simply do not have the time....or the mental capacity to think about it.

    how many times have you left your phone, or your wallet at home when you left the house in a hurry?....now imagine someone is trying to kill you.

    if your sidearm is a "backup" to your rifle......and you are holstering and unholstering often...it might make a little bit more sense.

    but if your sidearm is your primary weapon, like it is god damn near all of us......youre foolish to carry it in a mode not ready to use.
     
    The Israeli's probably do it as a matter of policy, much like it was policy in the US military to carry the 1911 condition 3, which began to change after the Beirut bombing.
    It was also US policy for all troops to turn in their ammunition when in the rear. How'd that work out in the battle of the bulge.
    Just because a certain unit or military carries a certain way, doesn't mean it's smart.
    Do the SAS carry condition 3? How about Delta? How about Seals? Rangers?
    Hell, how about LA SWAT, they operate on a daily basis, frequently multiple times a day, they don't carry condition 3.
    Carrying with an empty chamber is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.
     
    who gives a fuck? Their ROE is way different than any of us, who aren't current LEO or Mil defense force. It's not relevant. You want to carry on an empty chamber, do it. To try to make an argument that becuase some Israeli forces don't so I shouldn't is ludicrous.
     
    Do you know what their ROE is? No you dont so so stop running your cock holster like your fucking expert other than the internet. Do whatever you want because nobody asked for your fucking nobody opinion.
     
    I tried carrying an Israeli, but the sob kept digging in my wallet and stabbing me in the back.

    I typ carry with five full chambers.
     
    Compromise? There's a lot to be said for a revolver for civilian carry, i.e., those who don't expect trouble or a full fledged gunfight with more than one bad guy. I often carry this.
    wm_2776143.jpg
     
    And year ive actually used a knife and a gun to stay alive at kissing range and the goverment actually paid me to teach this so my views trump yours on this matter.
    Done
    life lessons 101: youre views dont mean a chicken shit more than anyone elses...

    you are not the only person whos had to use a gun to stay alive.....and no leitimate instructor ive ever met reccomends carrying on an empty chamber.

    try your chest thumping on arfcom....because that shit doesnt work around here

     
    Your best gunfight is one you never attend, an that is pure fact.
    That said, if you have to clear a holster/pocket, load a round, or make up your mind, just get a toe tag with your name on it ready.
    Good Situational awareness, an the ability to read body language will allow the fight to be one sided. Walk around like the bulk of the population toting guns, thinking it will protect you/yours by just having it is insane. Open carry is just an invite to be bushwhacked first.
     
    The discussion always comes around, probably because there is never actually a "Correct" answer for everybody, everyone has different situations and different rules.

    For example:
    Military: Generally if you need to be carrying, you are in a hostile area and have specific rules of engagement depending on your mission.
    Chances are, you know where you are and what the threat might be and are setup for it.

    Police: Carry in well placed holsters easy to get to, but rather secure from malfunction. Also pretty much no consequences if you pull out your gun and hold it or point it at someone.
    Good chance you are going looking for the trouble and will pull your gun if there is any indication of trouble possibly coming or being around.

    Civilians: Usually carried concealed, harder to get to, easier to have an accident. Also usually BIG trouble if you pull it, or show it or point it unless you can say you were about to be killed / maimed.
    Most likely you won't be pulling your gun till you are actually under attack or the threat is right on you.

    Another issue to look at, is in the Civilian world, you may carry all your life and probably never need to actually use your gun to defend yourself, and maybe only have your hand on your gun in readiness a couple times in your life. But an accidental round going off can really ruin things for you.

    Another issue is that specifically in the Civilian world, you probably won't know you are under attack and probably aren't even legally allowed to draw your weapon till an attack is actually under way, since most criminals don't come up and say "I'm going to attack you.. get ready". You may be on your back having your head pounded into the pavement before you get your gun out if you are unlucky. Especially in urban areas where people move close by, you may not see the attack coming till it's happening. In that case, you may not have two hands free to cycle your weapon, you may barely be able to get one half broken hand to pull the gun out to try to save your life. Someone kicks in the door, you literally have a second or two in which to respond.

    In my case what works for me most of the time is carrying either a fully loaded compact revolver, or carrying a DA/SA pistol, chambered, but decocked and on safety.
    Most of the time however when out and about, a .357 revolver is what I carry, with a backup semi auto & rifle nearby. If things go down and I can't get the threat ended with 5 shots of .357 magnum, I'll probably attempt to find cover, reload and try to get back to my primary weapons.

    While they are not as well thought of these days in the civilian carry world, I still find a good revolver to be a great balance for every day leave it in your pocket and forget about it, and still have a minimum of decent stopping power.

    I think pretty much the answer comes down to each individual needing to stop and really think about the overall picture of their life, their day to day activities and the most realistic threats they will come across and then the far out possibilities. Then practice and decide what works best for their individual situation.

    I do however lean towards the side that if you are carrying without a round in the chamber, there is a good chance some criminal might be prying the still unchambered gun from your cold dead / unconscious hands.
     
    never too late to convince someone they are doing something that could get them killed. If we stopped useless threads, Frank should just shut the fucking board down.

    The most dangerous thing the average person does is make a left hand turn. I have yet to see anyone "lose" a gunfight or be killed due to Israeli carry. But hundreds die every year making left hand turns. Education is good, but it is still a personal decision. Getting off the X is a better tactic, chambered or not.
     
    The discussion always comes around, probably because there is never actually a "Correct" answer for everybody, everyone has different situations and different rules.

    For example:
    Military: Generally if you need to be carrying, you are in a hostile area and have specific rules of engagement depending on your mission.
    Chances are, you know where you are and what the threat might be and are setup for it.

    Police: Carry in well placed holsters easy to get to, but rather secure from malfunction. Also pretty much no consequences if you pull out your gun and hold it or point it at someone.
    Good chance you are going looking for the trouble and will pull your gun if there is any indication of trouble possibly coming or being around.

    Civilians: Usually carried concealed, harder to get to, easier to have an accident. Also usually BIG trouble if you pull it, or show it or point it unless you can say you were about to be killed / maimed.
    Most likely you won't be pulling your gun till you are actually under attack or the threat is right on you.

    Another issue to look at, is in the Civilian world, you may carry all your life and probably never need to actually use your gun to defend yourself, and maybe only have your hand on your gun in readiness a couple times in your life. But an accidental round going off can really ruin things for you.

    Another issue is that specifically in the Civilian world, you probably won't know you are under attack and probably aren't even legally allowed to draw your weapon till an attack is actually under way, since most criminals don't come up and say "I'm going to attack you.. get ready". You may be on your back having your head pounded into the pavement before you get your gun out if you are unlucky. Especially in urban areas where people move close by, you may not see the attack coming till it's happening. In that case, you may not have two hands free to cycle your weapon, you may barely be able to get one half broken hand to pull the gun out to try to save your life. Someone kicks in the door, you literally have a second or two in which to respond.

    In my case what works for me most of the time is carrying either a fully loaded compact revolver, or carrying a DA/SA pistol, chambered, but decocked and on safety.
    Most of the time however when out and about, a .357 revolver is what I carry, with a backup semi auto & rifle nearby. If things go down and I can't get the threat ended with 5 shots of .357 magnum, I'll probably attempt to find cover, reload and try to get back to my primary weapons.

    While they are not as well thought of these days in the civilian carry world, I still find a good revolver to be a great balance for every day leave it in your pocket and forget about it, and still have a minimum of decent stopping power.

    I think pretty much the answer comes down to each individual needing to stop and really think about the overall picture of their life, their day to day activities and the most realistic threats they will come across and then the far out possibilities. Then practice and decide what works best for their individual situation.

    I do however lean towards the side that if you are carrying without a round in the chamber, there is a good chance some criminal might be prying the still unchambered gun from your cold dead / unconscious hands.

    Well set out. My only comment will apply to your last line.

    Id rather be judged by 12 thean carried by 6.
     
    life lessons 101: youre views dont mean a chicken shit more than anyone elses...

    you are not the only person whos had to use a gun to stay alive.....and no leitimate instructor ive ever met reccomends carrying on an empty chamber.

    try your chest thumping on arfcom....because that shit doesnt work around here

    You dont give life lessons there McCoward..I bet you suck off the locals who pulled everyone and their kids out of their homes at gunpoint and threw them face down on the lawn..
     
    You dont give life lessons there McCoward..I bet you suck off the locals who pulled everyone and their kids out of their homes at gunpoint and threw them face down on the lawn..

    If ya'll cant act like gentle men Ill just ask Tucker to lock the damn thread. My mistake. Jeez just watch the video and make your own decision.
     
    I really don't care how anyone else chooses to carry their pistol, or even if they decline to carry one at all. I make my decisions, and live with the consequences, just as they will have to. I don't feel the need to justify my choices to someone else nor would I expect them to justify their choices to me. I know what I was taught, and what I used to teach while I was an instructor at a State level law enforcement training academy. Students were still free to decide how they want to carry (or not) once they left the academy.

    A boxing coach can teach people to keep their hands up, but everyone is still free to keep their hands in their pockets once they get out in the real world...their choice, and their consequences. Either way I won't loose any sleep over it.
     
    You dont give life lessons there McCoward..I bet you suck off the locals who pulled everyone and their kids out of their homes at gunpoint and threw them face down on the lawn..

    what the actual fuck are you talking about?

    im a coward because im not afraid to carry with a round in a chamber?....and who am i sucking off again?......jesus are you fucking 12?....
     
    what the actual fuck are you talking about?

    im a coward because im not afraid to carry with a round in a chamber?....and who am i sucking off again?......jesus are you fucking 12?....

    8 and retarded.

    BTW, you were right about drining in Boston. should have taken the subway.