*OOPS! Mixed 1 lb. of RL23 & H4350... Will I blow my face off?

[LongRangeJunky]

As the title reads... I accidentally dumped about half a pound of H4350 into a half pound of RL23 by mistake. Just a stupid mix up with too much on my reloading bench.

So, if I shake up real good and ensure a proper blend, how minimal of a pressure spike will I experience? LOL that is a joke... But seriously, what do I do? Toss it all?

Thanks!

 

[Carlos Danger]

RL4323. Might be on to something.

 

[patriotnation]

Fertilize your grass

 

[McCrazy]

You are talking about $40 or so of powder. Less than that really since no one would buy it from you for that price with it being mixes.

You aren't going to get any useful data from it since you don't know the true mix ratios.

If you are willing to risk yourself, your rifle, and the well-being of others at the range over $40 of messed up powder; this probably isn't the hobby for you.

Use it for something else like starting campfires if you need to get value out of it. A trip to the ER or the gunsmith is not the bargain you are looking for.

 

[spife7980]

Half pound of each?
I’d probably make a firework

 

[SupressYourself]

The correct answer is toss it or use it for some homemade fireworks.
Even if you could make it work, you'd have to burn up a bunch of components just to figure out a load that you could never replicate.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

fire form some brass or use up some random bullets for plinking, sighting in a scope, or barrel break in. you know things that dont matter what ammo you use.

you know its at most H4350 pressures.

 

[rmfield]

Toss it.

I keep all my powder on a couple of shelves above my bench. I have a hard/fast rule: Only one container of powder on the bench at any time. That one container stays on the bench until all of the left over powder from the Chargemaster, powder measures, tricklers, etc. are emptied back into it. Then it goes back on the shelf. Want to guess why I adopted this rule some 40 years ago?

 

[Partsunavailable]

fire form some brass or use up some random bullets for plinking, sighting in a scope, or barrel break in. you know things that dont matter what ammo you use.

you know its at most H4350 pressures.

Would you be interested in it for collecting invisible chronograph data?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Half pound of each?
I’d probably make a firework

Make a pile at the end of the driveway and toss a match into it.

Or, get the fire pit going.
Put the powder in a ziplock and toss it in from 15' away.
Wooo boy! It makes a giant flash.

Not that I would know anything about doing this kind of shit.


Or don't do it and be safe.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Toss it.

I keep all my powder on a couple of shelves above my bench. I have a hard/fast rule: Only one container of powder on the bench at any time. That one container stays on the bench until all of the left over powder from the Chargemaster, powder measures, tricklers, etc. are emptied back into it. Then it goes back on the shelf. Want to guess why I adopted this rule some 40 years ago?

^^^^^^^
That right there is the golden rule.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Would you be interested in it for collecting invisible chronograph data?

Might as well.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

you know its at most H4350 pressures.

Not necessarily. You never know how they will react.

They are not far off from each other on the burn rate chart. BUT... depending on the new density, etc....it's a crapshoot.

I am sure a talented reloader could start low and work up to "Something" with that combination. But for a pound of powder, not worth it. If I had mixed 10 pounds of it... I'd be experimenting. But not for a pound-ish.

Sirhr

PS. Does everyone have a copy of this on their wall? It is reloading gold! Attached as PDF for easy printing.

 

[Sheldon N]

I say go the other way. 1lb is not enough. You need to mix ALL of your RL23 and H4350. Then work up a good load and shoot it until it's gone.

 

[spamassassin]

I inadvertently got a tiny amount of H4350 in RL-23 while working with my .243AI and got a few rounds loaded before I realized it. I thought, "How bad could it be?" and so, I tried it out. Blanked a primer out of the gate on what had been a pretty moderate pressure load before. The 2 powders had turned out identical velocities with identical charge weights in earlier load development work I'd done so I wasn't super worried which is part of why I tried it out instead of just pulling them down. After the primer blanking I pulled down the others and poured all the contaminated powder on a paving stone, lit it on fire and made the neighborhood smell great for a minute. This was after I'd done the same thing with H4350 and IMR4350 and had slightly more dramatic but otherwise essentially the same results. YMMV and my .243AI was pretty different from the typical long range shooter's 6mm Bisexual Bobcat rig in several respects so I don't know if any other combo would have the same result. Still, I'd just count it as a learning experience and move on with clean powder. The only "reason" I could come up with for those results was, "chemistry is messy".

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I inadvertently got a tiny amount of H4350 in RL-23 while working with my .243AI and got a few rounds loaded before I realized it. I thought, "How bad could it be?" and so, I tried it out. Blanked a primer out of the gate on what had been a pretty moderate pressure load before. The 2 powders had turned out identical velocities with identical charge weights in earlier load development work I'd done so I wasn't super worried which is part of why I tried it out instead of just pulling them down. After the primer blanking I pulled down the others and poured all the contaminated powder on a paving stone, lit it on fire and made the neighborhood smell great for a minute. This was after I'd done the same thing with H4350 and IMR4350 and had slightly more dramatic but otherwise essentially the same results. YMMV and my .243AI was pretty different from the typical long range shooter's 6mm Bisexual Bobcat rig in several respects so I don't know if any other combo would have the same result. Still, I'd just count it as a learning experience and move on with clean powder. The only "reason" I could come up with for those results was, "chemistry is messy".

what is "blanked a primer"?

 

[XikoPlavi]

Half pound of each?
I’d probably make a firework

Exactly. I’d make some kind of firecrackers. Like take 50cal cases and make some m120s. Green wick. Glue gun. Electric or duct taped. BOOM

 

[spamassassin]

what is "blanked a primer"?

One which looks like the striker has pierced it but rather than a simple piercing, a slug of the back of the primer cup is actually missing. In my experiences with this condition I've found the missing slug of cup inside the bolt body. Not only has the primer flowed but it actually completely lets go of a bit of the back end.

Like the one on the left (not my pic). The 2 to the right look like they were just about to send the raised bit of primer cup into the bolt body.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

One which looks like the striker has pierced it but rather than a simple piercing, a slug of the back of the primer cup is actually missing. In my experiences with this condition I've found the missing slug of cup inside the bolt body. Not only has the primer flowed but it actually completely lets go of a bit of the back end.

Like the one on the left (not my pic). The 2 to the right look like they were just about to send the raised bit of primer cup into the bolt body.

ok, yeah that sucks. only happens on my 6.5 CM gasser when I try to push it anywhere near 2700fps. and yeah they get stuck in my bolt jamming the firing pin.

 

[lightman]

I would scrap it and chalk it up to a lesson being learned. It not worth the risk to yourself and others.

Not to beat up on you, but this would be a good time to review your procedures. The old rule of one type of powder on the bench at a time is a good one. Think, stay focused and avoid distractions.

 

[Threadcutter308]

$40 bucks worth of powder vs an eyeball ?

 

[LongRangeJunky]

I am actually asking for the technical answer to "what would happen" and "why"? I am curious how the chemistry works when two powders with similar (or dissimilar) burn rates work together.

I lit the powder on fire in the front yard. My little girl loved the show!

 

[SD Carpenter]

I'm surprised no one's tried mixing powders with all the crazy stuff I've heard

 

[acudaowner]

this isn't back magic man get with it no wire hangers ... Ever ...mixing is bad keep things pure no mixing of the powders ever ....

 

[srt-4_uk]

Given the current price of powder, get some needle tweezers and a magnifying glass.

 

[LongRangeJunky]

Given the current price of powder, get some needle tweezers and a magnifying glass.

I literally considered this. H4350 has a green hue to it... the RL23 is black. It was easy to determine which was which once I poured it out into a glass!

 

[roostercogburn98]

I literally considered this. H4350 has a green hue to it... the RL23 is black. It was easy to determine which was which once I poured it out into a glass!

Separate it by candlelight

 

[Heavyopp]

Good for fertilizer in the garden

 

[db2000]

Half pound of each?
I’d probably make a firework

^^^this

 

[Baron23]

Please do NOT throw it into the fire pit or any other type of burning. Please just use it as fertilizer.

The greatest American skeet champion ever, Wayne Mayes, died some years back doing exactly that....burning some old powder in a grill. Had done it hundreds of times in the past.

This time, a gust of wind kicked some burning powder out of the grill and it caught his synthetic material shirt and shorts on fire and it was not pretty. He died.

Take it for what its worth to you.

P.S. - opps, I see this was overcome by events.

 

[nn8734]

Please do NOT throw it into the fire pit or any other type of burning. Please just use it as fertilizer.

The greatest American skeet champion ever, Wayne Mayes, died some years back doing exactly that....burning some old powder in a grill. Had done it hundreds of times in the past.

This time, a gust of wind kicked some burning powder out of the grill and it caught his synthetic material shirt and shorts on fire and it was not pretty. He died.

Take it for what its worth to you.

I think he already set it off (see post 22).

 

[acudaowner]

na , your going to be fine .....

 

[Sheldon N]

I inadvertently got a tiny amount of H4350 in RL-23 while working with my .243AI and got a few rounds loaded before I realized it. I thought, "How bad could it be?" and so, I tried it out. Blanked a primer out of the gate on what had been a pretty moderate pressure load before

I am actually asking for the technical answer to "what would happen" and "why"? I am curious how the chemistry works when two powders with similar (or dissimilar) burn rates work together.

This comment above got me wondering "why" as well. Messing around in Quickload a bunch I've noticed some principles that makes me think I might have a guess, although I'm far from having any chemistry understanding. My thinking would go like this...

Powder produces a quantity of gas when it burns. Gas makes pressure and makes the bullet go.

WHEN the gas gets produced is a huge variable. If it happens all at once, while the bullet is still in (or very near to) the case then there's a small combustion space and pressure builds much higher. If it happens slowly then the bullet has a chance to move away from the case there's a larger combustion space of both case + some barrel, and pressure won't be as high.

Pressure and heat can accelerate combustion of powder. This is why some powders are seen as hitting pressure spikes in load development as you increase charge weight. The higher the pressure goes the faster it burns - sort of exponential.

When I overlay Quickload's pressure curve graph for RL23 and H4350 I notice that H4350 makes it's peak pressure much sooner than RL23, at equal pressures. RL23 also makes better velocity and requires a larger charge weight. In effect it is a slower powder than H4350, actually much closer to H4831.

My wild guess as to why the mixing of powder created so much more pressure is that the H4350 served as an accelerant for the RL23, causing it to burn sooner than it otherwise would have. Burning sooner caused the RL23 to dump its pressure when there was a smaller combustion area, leading to the pressure spike and blanked primers.

 

[roostercogburn98]

People used to practice the game of duplex charging all the time. As some have mentioned earlier in this thread, the RIGHT reloader could probably have made a solid load for some round. The hard part to duplicate would be after that batch ran out, and if you wanted to mix some more. Since you didn’t know the true weight of either when you mixed them, it would be a crap shoot to get the same again.

I personally think it would have taken too much time and components to get where it was useful. Even when components were normal priced and on every store shelf.

 

[Gtscotty]

I did this with StaBall and RL16 one time, now my grass has excellent temperature stability and class leading growth velocity.

 

[spamassassin]

When I overlay Quickload's pressure curve graph for RL23 and H4350 I notice that H4350 makes it's peak pressure much sooner than RL23, at equal pressures. RL23 also makes better velocity and requires a larger charge weight. In effect it is a slower powder than H4350, actually much closer to H4831.

My wild guess as to why the mixing of powder created so much more pressure is that the H4350 served as an accelerant for the RL23, causing it to burn sooner than it otherwise would have. Burning sooner caused the RL23 to dump its pressure when there was a smaller combustion area, leading to the pressure spike and blanked primers.

The notion of one acting as an accelerant of the other is essentially the conclusion I came to and based on exactly the same reasoning. When I did it with IMR4350 and H4350 the bolt lift was very stiff and the primer was blanked. With the RL23 and H4350 it was just a blanked primer.

 

[Longshot231]

 

[LongRangeJunky]

LOL Next time I make this Fk up I will test some loads... for science! But as always, I will start 10% under the recommended charge weight

 

[Doom]

I am pretty sure RL23 is double base and H4350 is single based so one powder is contaminating the other. Nitroglycerin is a deterrent to the nitrocellulose in the RL. The 4350 may absorb some of the nitroglycerin and speed up the RL and slow down the 4350.

Fertilizer.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

How much is the spread per sqft too keep the grass from burning.

 

[B y r o n]

Would you even ask this question if you put 1/2 a tank of gasoline in you diesel or visa versa?

 

[jakelly]

I use stuff like this to fireform cases. I have a 1 pound container marked “junk mag powder”. I just go low and use it to get “enough” pressure. I wouldn’t try to work up a load combining powders, but I wouldn’t have thrown that stuff out.

 

[jakelly]

Would you even ask this question if you put 1/2 a tank of gasoline in you diesel or visa versa?

Not the same, or even close. I have routinely filled magnum rifle cases half full of pistol powder and the other half with cream of wheat and pulled the trigger.

 

[FLIGHT762]

I have a # of 8208 that about 1/8th cup of 4320 got tossed into it. I tested it in 223 & 308 using 8208 data since 4320 is a little slower. I made some 55 gr. middle of the road load in the 223. It shot fine with no pressure signs. The 308 load was a 150 gr. with a middle load and it also showed no pressure signs.

I marked the can and haven't decided if I'll throw it out or make some low power blasting loads out of it.

 

[greentick]

Usually the "discard" bottle fertilizes the crepe myrtle but ...

 

[n2ishun]

Fireforming.
Why waste it needlessly ?

 

[Milo 2.5]

Make a pile at the end of the driveway and toss a match into it.

Or, get the fire pit going.
Put the powder in a ziplock and toss it in from 15' away.
Wooo boy! It makes a giant flash.

Not that I would know anything about doing this kind of shit.


Or don't do it and be safe.

Lol, another pyromaniac. Are you far enough in to know the charge limits of slow vs fast powders?

 

[rustyinbend]

fire form some brass or use up some random bullets for plinking, sighting in a scope, or barrel break in. you know things that dont matter what ammo you use.

you know its at most H4350 pressures.

... This is great advice. Cold bore, barrel break-in, that sort of thing.

 

[C-130 Dude]

One which looks like the striker has pierced it but rather than a simple piercing, a slug of the back of the primer cup is actually missing. In my experiences with this condition I've found the missing slug of cup inside the bolt body. Not only has the primer flowed but it actually completely lets go of a bit of the back end.

Like the one on the left (not my pic). The 2 to the right look like they were just about to send the raised bit of primer cup into the bolt body.

Damn....Hope I never see this

 

[Longshot231]