Sidearms & Scatterguns Open carry vs Concealed

[Andrew Blubaugh]

When I teach I stress to students, "Know the why". Why are you doing one tactic or technique versus another? The are numerous ways to accomplish a task. For example, open carry versus concealed carry. There is a time and place for Joe Public to carry open. The post New Orleans Katrina was a great time to open carry. The tactic would tell those observing, "I am not an easy target". Outside of that type of scenario I can not conceive of an instance where a citizen would need to open carry.

So this week I was on vacation with the family and we stopped at a rest area on the PA turnpike. The rest area was very busy, to the point that there was a short wait to use the restroom. As I waited I noticed an older grandpa type helping what I assumed was his grandson wash his hands. The grandson was probably 4-5 years old. I noticed the grandpa had a chrome 1911 on his right hip. The grandpa's shirt was untucked but the shirt appeared to be slightly tucked in between the gun and waist band. My gut reaction was he failed to conceal the weapon after using the restroom so as he exited I discretely told him his handgun was exposed. To my surprised the guy acted like I was infringing on his rights and snapped back stating that PA is an open carry state.

All I could think was why would this guy want to advertise his handgun in a very crowded rest stop all while trying to manage his young grandson?

So what is the advantage to open carry for the citizen?

 

[pappy42]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I just don't comprehend the rational of open carry for citizens.

It would seem to shout: Shoot me first; I am a threat!

To me; it not about rights, it's about tactics.

 

[Phylodog]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Unless I'm on duty I carry concealed. I don't like the unwanted attention and prefer to blend in when I'm with my family or off duty. No one needs to know I'm armed including any potential trouble makers.

 

[coloshooter7]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pappy42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just don't comprehend the rational of open carry for citizens.

It would seem to shout: Shoot me first; I am a threat!

To me; it not about rights, it's about tactics. </div></div>

I agree with that statement, I don't get it either, I prefer no one knows when I am carrying.

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

From the clips I've seen on YouTube it would appear there is a cast of people intent on exercising their rights but in a manner that is deliberately confrontational to law enforcement.

It seems to be more about what I can do that what I need to do.

 

[Shredder58]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I think Cowboy summed it up well. There are very few situations where open carry is a good idea. I think there is a difference in mindset. Some feel a need to broadcast what they are doing to everyone else just because they can, while others understand the reason behind what they are doing and know it is not wise to broadcast to everyone.

Maybe if open carry is your only legal option...this might be another situation to consider it, but even this I would weigh carefully.

 

[kujo929]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

The youtube clips I have seen were people carrying openly because their state laws denied them the right to carry concealed.

Being a plain clothes detective I don't know why a citizen would want to carry open. I routinely cover my weapon as the situation dictates when on duty. And I would never carry openly off-duty.

However, I also would not have a problem with people who want to carry open in areas where it is allowed.

My state does not allow citizens to carry concealed or open. I think we are the last state left with laws like this and I believe it does infringe on constitutional rights.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I agree with everyone's ability to carry, be it open or concealed, but society, and some parts of the media, has ingrained it into the populaces head that owning and possessing a firearm is almost barbaric.

As with a criminals reluctance to rob a homeowner in possession of a firearm, how often do you think a business get robbed if they openly said that they supported, and maybe offered discounts, to carrying citizens?

Such a concept if a criminal were to rob an establishment, would be akin to them trying to rob a gunstore.

 

[yerbyray]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Here in North Carolina we have both open carry and concealed carry laws. I have asked a few people who carry openly why they don't just get the CCW permit and the answers are about the same.

Cost, don't want to be fingerprinted, and that you can actually open carry in more places than concealed. The last one caught me by surprise but after looking at signs that state "no concealed weapons" I see what they are saying.

Now I figure a shopkeeper who posts that sign doesn't understand the difference between open and concealed is going to have kittens when a guy walks in packing a gun on their hip; the law will be called.

What I am wondering is the lack of clarity here in NC with open carry and the law of "Going armed to the terror" law that we have. A guy toting a 1911 in leather is fine but a guy with an Ar-15 slung tactical is different.

Its a crazy world....I'll just stick to wearing a Billie Jack hat for defense.

 

[FrozenAmmo]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

One reason for open carry, at least here in Alaska, is the wildlife. Drive 5 min outside of a city or live in a smaller town and you are in "bear country". It's alittle harder to conceal a .44/.454/.460/.500 4-7" revolver.

That habit with some tends to carry over to others and their personal protection sidearms. The end result is seeing more than a dozen people open carrying in any given grocery store.

 

[earthtrekker1775]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I carry strong side OWB concealed but whenever I am in a vehicle I un-conceal for easier access. I am all about maintaining the right to OC but personally I agree with the above posters. It is not about making a statement, it is about tactical superiority. What the bad guys don't see can hurt them.

 

[FX44]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coloshooter7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pappy42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just don't comprehend the rational of open carry for citizens.

It would seem to shout: Shoot me first; I am a threat!

To me; it not about rights, it's about tactics. </div></div>

I agree with that statement, I don't get it either, I prefer no one knows when I am carrying. </div></div>

I also agree. To me open carry is also an opportunity for a bad guy or anyone to grab your gun. While I was an LEO I always kept guard on my gun side. I would not want to do this as a civilian. I like conceal carry and be the gray man.

 

[tiNdvenTFHwMdqKW]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Tactics aside, open carry is a hell of a lot more convenient than concealed. Concealed is a PITA but is obviously tactically superior.

I wish the whole thing was a non-issue. If everyone could just ignore the open carriers then it would be a lot better. It's a total non-issue in the big picture.

If a bad guy is going to lunge at a person's gun then the same person is likely to lunge at a purse or do some other random act of stupidity. I'd rather more law abiding people were armed so when a nut job does get out of line they can be dealt with quicker.

We all do ourselves an injustice but arguing the details of the second amendment. The right to keep and bare arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. Let's just leave it at that and be done with it.

 

[Radar360]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I think like most here. When I carry, I ensure it remains concealed. It is as others have put it, tactically advantageous.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PBinWA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd rather more law abiding people were armed so when a nut job does get out of line they can be dealt with quicker. </div></div>

Move to Texas. Everyone I know carries.

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I do both.

 

[beretta682]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

in washington state open carry is leagal,i will sometimes open carry but for the mostpart i conceal my weapon, the people around here just freak out when they see a gun its not worth the hassel with the law

 

[Chadwick122689]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Here in Michigan it pays to have a CPL, but open carry. Many of our pistol free zones are for concealed pistols. For example, it is illegal for me to conceal my handgun when going into a bar (even if I'm just grabbing dinner), however it is perfectly legal for me to uncover my gun and go into the same bar for dinner. This ONLY applies to open carrying WITH a CPL. without a CPL I couldn't open carry into a liquor store. Strange laws, but on the whole I prefer concealing the gun

 

[kellogg2185]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<span style="font-style: italic">"All I could think was why would this guy want to advertise his handgun in a very crowded rest stop all while trying to manage his young grandson?"</span>

How does carrying a sidearm, whether openly or concealed, affect your management of a child? And who decides when/where it is appropriate for "Joe Public" to exercise his rights? The "tactical" advantage/disadvantage to how a person carries is his own opinion, and people can debate that forever. But for you to think someone should not do something, especially when it is legal, just because you don't like it or because you personally don't see a reason for it is a bit silly.

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Don't take it personally, he was just telling you as directly and quickly as one can with two wet hands, a 5 year old at his hip, a wife in the car, a dog that needed walking and a strong urge for a cup of black coffee before visiting his son at VFW 2124 to mind your own business.

Your right, he could have said "Thanks, I appreciate your letting me know that you want me to adhere to your view that "Outside of a major National disaster you can not conceive of an instance where a citizen would need to open carry." No matter what the law says.

Now, you know the why, Professor...

I keeed, I keeeep you so much!

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I think the better question is why does a citizen need to conceal carry?

I only conceal carry when I plan on running in and out of shops. However if I'm going to the range or hunting I wear a 1911. Hell I've been in major stores wearing a 1911 and no one batted a eye at me. I've had a few older folks smile at me and nod their head but I've never had anyone act foul or panic that I was carrying.

 

[scifri44]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Situations dictate… I'll leave it as that , since most people here have good thoughts on it.

 

[Falar]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Because concealed carry is a PITA. It is extemely hot here most of the year and I am always struggling to carry comfortably. I wish we had open carry here in Texas, but what would I know as I am just another lowly "citizen" or "civilian".

 

[ugsly]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I can only see very very few instances where open carry would be acceptable for me. The way I think about it is if I was a bad guy and went into a store to rob it. I see a guy open carrying, he would be the first one to go.

I asked a guy one time why he carried openly. His response was he got more respect. wrong reason to carry a gun in my opinion.

Just my .02 cents
Kc

 

[Andrew Blubaugh]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kellogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">"All I could think was why would this guy want to advertise his handgun in a very crowded rest stop all while trying to manage his young grandson?"</span>

How does carrying a sidearm, whether openly or concealed, affect your management of a child? And who decides when/where it is appropriate for "Joe Public" to exercise his rights? The "tactical" advantage/disadvantage to how a person carries is his own opinion, and people can debate that forever. But for you to think someone should not do something, especially when it is legal, just because you don't like it or because you personally don't see a reason for it is a bit silly. </div></div>

Kellogg,

You missed my point by a mile. I was there with my disabled mother, wife, 3 year old and 6month old. I was managing my 3 year old and I was carrying concealed for several reasons. One specific reason has to do with my family. In a critical incident that I am not directly involved if I need to react my initial concern will be securing my family. If someone already knows I am armed chances are I will be engaged before I can do anything for my family.

 

[Va_Gentleman]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

My Daughter's B-Day Party was held in a local mall that has fell into some crime in recent years. But it is has an attraction that is nice for small kids and parties.

Most Stores in the Mall post "No Firearms".. except the Mall does not. Thus, I do not patron those companies nor do I walk into the stores.

Obviously I chose concealed, with 14 children age 7 in an area where crime is more than usual.

I have carried open a few times... An armed society is a polite society for sure.... but it brings attention.. and I have learned with age that being invisible gives you an advantage.

 

[kellogg2185]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I read your point, I just don't understand its logic. Also, I would like to see some sort of statistic, newspaper article, interview, etc. where a non-police officer (your "Joe Public") has been targeted in a violent situation because of his or her openly carrying a firearm. I support both open and concealed carry, and I don't need to understand why a person has chosen either, I just like that they do, period.

 

[anthony1]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I only open carry when Im out of the public eye, fishing in the middle of nowhere on my land or peoples I know, mainly because its a little less restrictive if Im treking a bunch of poles and crap around. In public I prefer that people do not know Im carrying a gun.

 

[dpairborneranger]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

While in the military they tought us that surprise, speed, and violence of action is big when in a fight. Whether it was with your hands or with a weapon. If you open carry you lose surprise. I for one like carrying concealed especially with a nice holster. I'm a pretty big guy so I know if shit hit the fan I would probably be shot early on and don't need to open carry to add to it. I can understand carrying open when you are out of the public though. Why would you hide it then.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I find nothing wrong about open carry. But, whether you conceal or open carry, neither is a catch all for every scenario. OC does certainly deter someone looking for an easy victim. Unless some one wants that gun you are proudly displaying. All is needed then is for him to get you off gaurd and take it. But a CC guy can be taken off gaurd as well. But it wasnt BECAUSE he carries a gun. The CC guy will blend in more than the OC guy, where most folks' attention will likely be on the gun the whole time. They both have their good, and bad. If you do it differently than me, doesnt mean I am right or wrong and vise versa. You have your reason and I have mine.

The fact the old guy had the kid has little relevence to how you carry. Unless someone wants the gun, and goes for it while the old guy is busy with the kit. A CC guy would have been just as distracted, but draw less attention. Unfortunately, you just tried to be a friendly citizen and lend a helping hand where it wasnt needed. Not out of ignorance, or disrespect, just a misinterpretation of what you saw. Instead of being polite and thanking you he took it as a stab at his method of carry. Oh well. For those who like to snap off with "mind your buisness", that is like yelling at someone for touching your property after picking up your wallet after you dropped it. I can only hope and pray that if by some streak of fate, you never become a victim in need of help while everyone around you just "minds their buisness". I never read the OP saying he shouldnt be OC. He just wanted to know what the advantage was to it. Aside from a concerned citizen, whos impression was that this guys concealed pistol had become unconcealed, there was no mention of this guy switching to an alternate method of carry because thats what the OP said he should do. The question of "why" is no more or less judgemental than if he asked why someone chose one bi-pod over the other.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DonniePD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While in the military they tought us that surprise, speed, and violence of action is big when in a fight. Whether it was with your hands or with a weapon. If you open carry you lose surprise. I for one like carrying concealed especially with a nice holster. I'm a pretty big guy so I know if shit hit the fan I would probably be shot early on and don't need to open carry to add to it. I can understand carrying open when you are out of the public though. Why would you hide it then. </div></div>

On the opposite hand, open carry might allow you to access and deploy that pistol <span style="font-style: italic">just</span> the slight bit faster than you could from a necessary concealed position. You're trading surprise for speed in that trinity you mention above. It's an exchange of one advantage for another - how can you argue with that? That's not even touching on the intimidation factor - the same information that might cause a professional terrorist (Hint: the statistically impossible threat for your daily life) to prioritize you as a victim would also cause the average mugger or underprivileged youth to turn around and find someone else to target (Hint: statistically the most likely threat you'll ever encounter).

In a place like Florida, relaxing the law to allow open carry would open up the available holster options for permit holders considerably. When your climate dictates your dress, and the law dictates your carry method, you're quickly left with few good choices for securing a sidearm on your person. People generally open carry because it's more comfortable, and while everyone online likes to be Billy Badass, the boring truth is that most permit holders fail to carry on a daily basis because it's too uncomfortable, or because of the pain and hassle of finding a suitably built concealment holster. More carry permit holders who actually <span style="font-weight: bold">carry</span> is a far better trade-off in my book than the remote chance of increasing your priority to a criminal.

 

[mkollman74]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless I'm on duty I carry concealed. I don't like the unwanted attention and prefer to blend in when I'm with my family or off duty. No one needs to know I'm armed including any potential trouble makers. </div></div>

Agree with this. It's a personal choice, but having the right to do something doesn't make it the best choice.

 

[lw8]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

OC is not faster unless you are talking about competition holsters with no substantive retention. Any decent retention holster is going to have the same draw speed for a concealed draw and and exposed one provided the user trains as he/she should.

As far as intimidation...that is laughable. The kinds of criminals you actually have to worry about are not intimidated by your holstered weapon.

 

[Ian MkVenner]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Because criminals love to seek out and kill 'good guys' for their side arms, that is why military armories, gun shops, and police stations are always knocked over all the time and it makes the headlines daily. Really I would be very grateful to whoever can show me examples of bad guys looking for good guys who are armed other than suicide by cop.

In a more realistic bent I will say that I do both, mostly depending on what I carry. The argument for conceal carry over open carry is always unfairly stacked with the only choice always engineered for the posters point of view. The 'hardcore' criminal that will laugh at a firearm is a psycho; he or she will prey upon someone for no other reason than they can no matter if you are sitting inside a bloody tank.

Really it seems like people are setting up some invincible all powerful bad guy that can dodge bullets and draw with blinding speed, and that their victims will be dawdling cattle. On the other hand in other posts they will set themselves or others on a pedestal of greatness where they can deal with anything ever set up this earth due to their martial skill. Or that the act of open carry will somehow diminish situational awareness which should prevent the bad guy from ninja-ing his way to the murder zone.
Open carry sends a message, conceal carry does not but both have the same goal of self protection. I probably won’t open carry to the theater but I might around town, I will conceal carry when I feel I need to. If you must pass judgment and then preach your OPINION to others as gospel fact then at least use a fair set of scales when thinking of both methods.

Finally I would like to just say that if you are not military you are a civilian, police are civilians. This us vs them mindset is nasty and Joe Public is who makes up our country and who make it great.

I do not pretend to be anything when I open carry, I am merely an armed member of the American public who will not let others say how I should act anymore than they will let me dictate how they dress or what they eat. I do not want a confrontation with the police, I treat them with the same respect and manners I do everyone else, yes sir or yes mam but maybe that is just being southern. Nor do I pretend when I conceal carry, I am the same as before.

Open carry is bad because it makes you a target, oh except it is good when it is a SHTF situation where the majority of criminals act openly and the streets are lawless because it marks you are NOT a target and not easily taken down.

You can’t have it both ways, either it is or it isn’t.

My thoughts and opinions are just that, the tired ramblings of a young man and can be valued or disregarded as such. I do conceal carry more than I open carry but I am more aware of my surroundings when I open carry, go figure.

 

[dpairborneranger]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arbiter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DonniePD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While in the military they tought us that surprise, speed, and violence of action is big when in a fight. Whether it was with your hands or with a weapon. If you open carry you lose surprise. I for one like carrying concealed especially with a nice holster. I'm a pretty big guy so I know if shit hit the fan I would probably be shot early on and don't need to open carry to add to it. I can understand carrying open when you are out of the public though. Why would you hide it then. </div></div>

On the opposite hand, open carry might allow you to access and deploy that pistol <span style="font-style: italic">just</span> the slight bit faster than you could from a necessary concealed position. You're trading surprise for speed in that trinity you mention above. It's an exchange of one advantage for another - how can you argue with that? That's not even touching on the intimidation factor - the same information that might cause a professional terrorist (Hint: the statistically impossible threat for your daily life) to prioritize you as a victim would also cause the average mugger or underprivileged youth to turn around and find someone else to target (Hint: statistically the most likely threat you'll ever encounter).

In a place like Florida, relaxing the law to allow open carry would open up the available holster options for permit holders considerably. When your climate dictates your dress, and the law dictates your carry method, you're quickly left with few good choices for securing a sidearm on your person. People generally open carry because it's more comfortable, and while everyone online likes to be Billy Badass, the boring truth is that most permit holders fail to carry on a daily basis because it's too uncomfortable, or because of the pain and hassle of finding a suitably built concealment holster. More carry permit holders who actually <span style="font-weight: bold">carry</span> is a far better trade-off in my book than the remote chance of increasing your priority to a criminal. </div></div>


I really don't think going open carry for intimidation is what you should be looking for. As for speed from concealed vs open I don't think that my open carry draw is that much faster. It has to be less than a second difference. On the other hand I am someone who practices drawing and shooting once a week from my iwb holster and my duty holster. Every time I put either of them on I draw and point from that holster 5 times....just for muscle memory. I also carry EVERYWHERE. When I'm in the gym that bag next to me has a Glock 22 in it.

 

[Andrew Blubaugh]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kellogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I read your point, I just don't understand its logic. Also, I would like to see some sort of statistic, newspaper article, interview, etc. where a non-police officer (your "Joe Public") has been targeted in a violent situation because of his or her openly carrying a firearm. I support both open and concealed carry, and I don't need to understand why a person has chosen either, I just like that they do, period. </div></div>

Kellogg, you don't understand the logic because you don't understand the tactics. You are an example of the person that does not know the "Why". Can you hammer a nail with a monkey wrench? Sure you can but it won't do as good of a job as a hammer. Tactics are the same, use the best tactic for the problem.

Open carry will work but it has a time and place. Some of the responses for open carry, make me think people are using open carry as a crutch to make up for their lack of training.

 

[Andrew Blubaugh]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Great point Bill.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

I am coming to michigan in Nov My question is can I open carry ? I have a ccw permit in Fla. I know Michigan honors it. I am not looking to have pistol hanging half way down my leg, but in case I take my jacket off have on hip
any info would great
thanks

 

[CommAV8OR]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FrozenAmmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One reason for open carry, at least here in Alaska, is the wildlife. Drive 5 min outside of a city or live in a smaller town and you are in "bear country". It's alittle harder to conceal a .44/.454/.460/.500 4-7" revolver. </div></div>
^^^^^^^^^^
This is the best argument I have heard for "open carry".
Just as was stated by grandpa in the opening of this thread, it seems most people open carry because of a political agenda. More often than not, in my opinion, armed citizens displaying their firearm don't really understand how tactically unsound their decision can be to their personal safety.

 

[tiNdvenTFHwMdqKW]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

The honest truth is that the only nutjob an open carry person is likely to encounter is someone who is anti-open carry.

That's pretty much why I don't open carry. Too many anti-gun nuts out there (especially on the left coast) that could freak out and cause a scene.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ian MkVenner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because criminals love to seek out and kill 'good guys' for their side arms, that is why military armories, gun shops, and police stations are always knocked over all the time and it makes the headlines daily. Really I would be very grateful to whoever can show me examples of bad guys looking for good guys who are armed other than suicide by cop.

In a more realistic bent I will say that I do both, mostly depending on what I carry. The argument for conceal carry over open carry is always unfairly stacked with the only choice always engineered for the posters point of view. The 'hardcore' criminal that will laugh at a firearm is a psycho; he or she will prey upon someone for no other reason than they can no matter if you are sitting inside a bloody tank.

Really it seems like people are setting up some invincible all powerful bad guy that can dodge bullets and draw with blinding speed, and that their victims will be dawdling cattle. On the other hand in other posts they will set themselves or others on a pedestal of greatness where they can deal with anything ever set up this earth due to their martial skill. Or that the act of open carry will somehow diminish situational awareness which should prevent the bad guy from ninja-ing his way to the murder zone.
Open carry sends a message, conceal carry does not but both have the same goal of self protection. I probably won&#146;t open carry to the theater but I might around town, I will conceal carry when I feel I need to. If you must pass judgment and then preach your OPINION to others as gospel fact then at least use a fair set of scales when thinking of both methods.

Finally I would like to just say that if you are not military you are a civilian, police are civilians. This us vs them mindset is nasty and Joe Public is who makes up our country and who make it great.

I do not pretend to be anything when I open carry, I am merely an armed member of the American public who will not let others say how I should act anymore than they will let me dictate how they dress or what they eat. I do not want a confrontation with the police, I treat them with the same respect and manners I do everyone else, yes sir or yes mam but maybe that is just being southern. Nor do I pretend when I conceal carry, I am the same as before.

Open carry is bad because it makes you a target, oh except it is good when it is a SHTF situation where the majority of criminals act openly and the streets are lawless because it marks you are NOT a target and not easily taken down.

You can&#146;t have it both ways, either it is or it isn&#146;t.

My thoughts and opinions are just that, the tired ramblings of a young man and can be valued or disregarded as such. I do conceal carry more than I open carry but I am more aware of my surroundings when I open carry, go figure.
</div></div>

I agree with what you say to a degree. It doesnt take the invincible superhuman you described. No person is 110% aware of everything around them every second. It doesnt take an immortal being to get the drop on you. Unless your Chuck Norris. But if its Chuck that wants your gun, just give it to him.

But if you are dealing with a vicious enough person, whether you CC or OC, it won't help you. You will still have a fighting chance either way, as opposed to no carry, won't deny that. But I think the purpose most folks prefer CC is the lack of attention. A CC person may be a target, and while the criminal may want to do YOU harm, and/or take your valuables, the OC guy will have the same attention from the attacker that he/she desires from the rest of the public. It will all be on the gun on his hip. What doesnt sit well with me is the reason a person was the target of an attack BECAUSE he had the gun openly displayed. Whether its the cop asking you how or why the shooting took place (you being the victor), or the cop asking the suspect how he got the gun (reason being obvious), its a shitty feeling to know that you were either targeted, or you supplied a violent attacker with a firearm.

Like its been stated, regadless of which you choose, something is better than nothing. But these are the reasons why most PREFER CC over OC. I do agree with Bill in that for many OC is done for statement and opinion than protection.

 

[Ian MkVenner]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Nah it doesn't take a superhuman person to get the drop on me, just something shiny in the other direction really.

 

[Guest]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy_bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what is the advantage to open carry for the citizen? </div></div>
Could be his last resort. Many states allow open carry w/o backround or a competence test. Could be he can't pass a CCW look, or is always rejected for whatever.

If I were to open carry, you can bet your ass it's not going to be something, that allows me to fight my way to my item of choice, for a gun fight within that A/O.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Here is one word of advice for those wishing to open carry. Learn weapon retention. Statistics show that a large number of cops are killed with their own guns. As far as I am concerned, their openly carrying of a sidearm is no more diffrent than the civillian. If bad shit like that can happen to them, it can certainly happen to an armed citizen.

 

[csi:cyberspace]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the better question is why does a citizen need to conceal carry?
</div></div>

^^^^ By far, the best response to this thread I could imagine.


Tactics are fine and dandy, and I agree that concealed wins that argument hands down. By I find it exceedingly sad that Americans have a disdain for the open carrying of a firearm. Our society has been so gelded by the soccer mom crowd that even some in our own ranks look upon OC as somehow second class. It pisses me off when "antis" think and talk this way, but I just can't express how angry it makes me when those in our own ranks succumb to this way of thinking. As gun owners, our support of anyone carrying a weapon however <span style="font-style: italic">they choose</span> (assuming of course, they may legally possess said weapon) should be unwavering. The simple fact that we Americans have allowed ourselves to become so "civilized" that we even bat an eye at someone carrying a handgun is truly sad.

Granted, I carry concealed. The fact is, to carry openly seems to defeat the purpose to me. Hell, I even feel "uncomfortable" open carrying. I don't like the added attention. But then threads like this honestly make me want to come out of the closet - metaphorically speaking, of course!

Also, as others have already stated, in NC, there are many places I can carry openly, that I can not carry concealed. Banks, for example.


ETA: And in case you feel I missed the point, perhaps so. But the overall net effect of such threads is the same, regardless of the point/intent.

 

[Guest]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: csi:cyberspace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the better question is why does a citizen need to conceal carry?</div></div>



Because, LE is always late to the party, an my family is going home safe, one way or the other.

Most folks that carry, believe giving up the advantage of surprise, might be stupid. Then again some folks don't think, before acting. Morgues and Prisons prove that little fact.

 

[brutus1776]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

i never get why the pro CC guys get so upset about OC'ers. i think we should all be on the same side.

lets be perfectly clear, OC is generally used to accomplish slightly different ends. OC's main goal is to change a culture or at least have natural rights recognized. it can also be considered a form of protest against various anti gun laws/environments. as a side it also seeks to educate the public that not every gun is 'illegal' as the NY cop shows portray. the OC carry movement in arizona is largely responsible for why there is no permit required for CC in the state now. OC is also the most basic and outward expression of being a free man, as opposed to being a slave.

another thing to point out is as the other carolina guys have pointed out, many people simply dont believe in having to ask permission in the form of a permit to exercise their rights to defend themselves. and if it means they have to curtail the liberty of allowing a shirt to drape over their side arm, they will carry open so they dont have to get finger printed, get on the 'list' and pay hundreds of dollars over the years to do something they already have the right to do and still be 'legal.' many people in NC would LOVE to CC if they didnt have to beg for a permission slip from the government and pay their tithe to the king.

with open carry, it also allows you to carry more places than CC, if one is attuned to following the letter of the law. banks have been mentioned and you can also OC where 'no concealed weapons' signs are posted. at least i havent had any problems in those areas.

on the whole, it seems that most OC'ers generally do so in more rural/smaller town type areas (pretty low crime levels)on the day to day level. its not like most are walking down town every day in nyc style foot traffic. to me this is the only time the CC vs OC 'tactical advantage' issue really means something. otherwise, if you know your weapon retention, maintain a high situational awareness just like anyone else who is carrying concealed or open, why all the hate for OC? cant we all just get along? considering in the grand scheme of things, very few who carry have actually had to draw, for some the reward of carrying openly in an attempt to educate, work to change the culture and outwardly display your liberty outweighs the risk of 'being a target' (as some have argued.) OC'ing and in in particular letting local law enforcement know the deal creates a more pro liberty and gun friendly environment, not to mention a safer place for all.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lw8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OC is not faster unless you are talking about competition holsters with no substantive retention. Any decent retention holster is going to have the same draw speed for a concealed draw and and exposed one provided the user trains as he/she should.

As far as intimidation...that is laughable. The kinds of criminals you actually have to worry about are not intimidated by your holstered weapon.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really don't think going open carry for intimidation is what you should be looking for.</div></div>

Let's turn this one around and make it as clear as possible by asking a simple question:

<span style="font-weight: bold">Why don't police officers carry concealed if it presents a tactical advantage without any major drawbacks?</span>


"Intimidation" has negative connotations for those who are afraid of the legal system, but "deterrence" might be the better term. On the basis of any statistically meaningful sample, I'd be more than willing to bet that fewer armed confrontations occur for those carrying openly, than for those carrying concealed.

On an anecdotal basis, I know of stores that have been victimized specifically because their employees were unarmed, and I know of stores that have been left alone because their employees were visibly armed.

On a personal basis, I know of one incident that occured to me a few years back, where the open (and legal) display of a holstered pistol deterred a group of gangbangers from a robbery attempt. One week later, an identical group of individuals got into a shootout in a neighboring town with someone who wasn't visibly armed.

I'm not suggesting that open carry is ideal, primarily because for the reasons mentioned above, the cultural acceptance is still very low. What I would strongly maintain, however, is that a visible firearm is a deterrant to criminal behavior more often than it is not. Plenty of criminology studies have been showing reduced crime rates in states where people are obtaining increasing numbers of carry permits. Does anyone really think that criminals are only deterred by a theoretical weapon?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

Open Carry is great and its your natural right.....now is it the best idea??? Nope. I dont want someone to know I have a gun on me. If I was a criminal and you are open carrying I would shoot you first. The open carry debate in regards to enlightnening the man, is ridiculous. Sure they cannot arrest you for Open Carrying, but they can pin a "disorderly conduct" on you and revoke your carry permit and possibly your gun rights in general. Ask the Alabama Open carry president how that is going for him.

Practically speaking carrying concealed is a much better idea. I think the OC guys do it to make a point that "Its my dad gum right to carry this here 6 shot revolver on my hip"

 

[Esselbach]

Re: Open carry vs Concealed

While I have no problem with open carry, I personally only conceal carry because I don't want any unwanted attention. I don't want any hassle from people who don't know the laws, or people accusing me of a perceived intimidation and 'brandishing' a weapon.

The only time I have ever open carried was out in the mountains.