Open sight ideas

[tenguns]

I'm in kind of a conundrum relative to my east coast gun. I'm from new england and hunt whitetails not far from the Canadian border each year. I live in and hunt the west though. I have two long range rigs: a M700 7mm Mag shooting berger 168s with 70.5 gr of retumbo with a flee IOR on there. Been great out west. And a backup - Win feather 300 WSM with the Weaver tactical I'm working with.

Most shots back east are close - last year the only opportunity I had in my 3 day window was a running buck at 40 yards in heavy slash and timber. That's typical back there. So open sights are often the best choice for me. But I've found a spot in a cliff area only visible from one vantage point at 882 yards where big bucks bed and feed late in the day when under pressure. There is not a good way to get into this area and there are too many exits to get close and actually see something. With the IOR I could dial a buck in - but that running buck which happens more often would be still running as it was even at 3 power. So I wonder - is there a rugged sight made, an open site that with practice I could adjust to take a shot at a stationary buck at 880~ yards? And that would still allow me with the quick target acquisition that open sights offer?

I know this is a kin to having cake and eating it too. I'm confident I can do it with the IOR and the Weaver for that matter but want to maintain the ability for the close technical work. I have a shot bucks and yotes at 500+ with open sights with my 300 ultra BDL (ouch) and stock sights and if I could master that one shot out to 880 somehow and maintain the close-quarters requirements I might leave the glass at home next year. Any recommendations. Is there anything out there with an ajustable sight picture and elevation adjustments without screwdrivers? I've looked at some of the comp sights - just don't know how much of the target that they'd cover up. Maybe a ghost ring with adjustable elevation and a flip up insert? Any recommendations?

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Open sight ideas

id say with the rem 700 put a rear and front sight base on like this

have the front and rear sights in your fanny pack and use them when need be

FYI, every bolt gun I own has iron sight bases cause i'm fruity like that, i like to train with irons now and then

 

[Inogame]

Re: Open sight ideas

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'm fruity like that, </div></div>


This intrigues me, tell me more...

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Open sight ideas

more fruitiness

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Open sight ideas

What about a small reflex sight mounted at an angle off the scope like used in 3gun matches?

 

[tenguns]

Re: Open sight ideas

Well - the idea is to be able to do snap shots as a priority but to do the long range shot with open sights . There are fewer deer in "my" state than are killed by cars each year most others. Typical track, jump-shot 95%. But that long shot makes me want a ghost-ring or something I can get on with fast for the 95% of the time... still-hunting and tracking- and yet have the option to calibrate a shot out to 880 when they retreat to that cliff area.

I was thinking of modifying something like the Williams 5D-70. Put some lockable dials on it - but maybe there's something that comes like that without diving into my machine shop. Trouble with most of the comp stuff is that the sights start out at 400+. The 5D looks like I could unscrew the insert and have a large aperature. If I could get some repeatable dials on it - without breaking the bank, I could screw in an apature, make the adjustments and fire that long shot. I've got a few 700s and cutting into the stock on that scrolled BDL or one of the titaniums isn't that attractive but think I can dig up a ginny for the job. Just have to find a similar sight with elevation and windage knobs that won't break the bank.

 

[tenguns]

Re: Open sight ideas


What kind of sight is that? Its got the dials needed. Any suggestions on a site to start with that won't break the bank?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">id say with the rem 700 put a rear and front sight base on like this

have the front and rear sights in your fanny pack and use them when need be

FYI, every bolt gun I own has iron sight bases cause i'm fruity like that, i like to train with irons now and then </div></div>

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Open sight ideas

It's a redfield Palma rear sight

 

[tenguns]

Re: Open sight ideas

Thanks - I see they are hard to find - but maybe one of the older models (non-palma) will do. Olympic or International I guess. I'll have to search to see what kind of adapter I'll need for a Rem 700 or put it on another rifle. Could be put on a sako hunter (good luck with that mount I'm guessing)... or maybe one of my model 70s. I may pick up a tinker model to work with in the garage but starting with a sight with elevation dials on it already is a big jump. v/r T

 

[med17]

Re: Open sight ideas

The Redfield palmas are good, Redfield makes several versions along that same line. If you go Redfield, make sure you get the adjustment you want ( 1/2 moa, 1/4 moa, 1/8 moa) cause they make them all. Although expensive other sights like those PNW, Warner, Pheonix will all mount to that style mount.

 

[WhiskeyWebber]

Re: Open sight ideas

What about using an aperture sight angled at a 45 off of the front of the barrel for close shots instead of a red dot sight?

 

[med17]

Re: Open sight ideas

If your using irons in place of scope, there are lots of irons that will mount to a rail system with good 1/4 moa adjustments, and accept varios aperatures. Front can be mounted with a band setup. GTG

 

[tenguns]

Re: Open sight ideas

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiskeyWebber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about using an aperture sight angled at a 45 off of the front of the barrel for close shots instead of a red dot sight? </div></div>

Unfortunately if my jump shots aren't "instinctive" - almost like a longbow shot, I can't make em, (my problem) so an angled sight aperture and the required cant wouldn't allow me to make the majority of shots while tracking.

Unless that was used somehow for the 880 yard shot. That might work.

This is a real unique situation but one that I could apply to other hunts and guns. I'm going to pick up some type of Redfield sight but my feeling is that fast target acquisition will not be possible with it. If the post alone can work as a ghost ring - then that might work.

Ideally, I'll have a sight that will allow for ghost ring style acquisition but will adapt for that long shot when needed like the comp sights. That's the target.

 

[tenguns]

Re: Open sight ideas

Update and question. So my current plan is to use one of my rifles to build up for this year. I'll use a Remington BDL in 300 RUM to address this years season. If I had the cash I'd build it on another platform but that's a gun that hasn't seen much action because I really didn't enjoy shooting it until I took the Lup off it and started with open sights. I didn't want to cut into a Titanium or another piece so the BDL with its factory scroll work is the victim.

I picked up a MK8 international to put on it and was somewhat surprised to find that finding a base for all the platform and a matching front sight is somewhat of a guessing game. I'll want to put one of the short length hooded sights up front with the interchangeable peeps - maybe one of the newer ones - but assume there is a height match ratio needed to make sure you can get on close range target and still have the elevation required to get out to 1k. But google as a I will - there is no set rule I can find. I see the front sights come in different heights - but no mention as to whats' needed based upon rifle combo, caliber, etc...and I see a number of rear bases for old target rifles and the comp part of the business - but was surprised no one put together an application chart matching rifles to sights and rear sights 75s, Olympics, Palma's and Internationals to front sights. Guess its part of the "fun".

Is this truly a guessing game or is there a doc that can tell me exactly what base is needed to put the international on the BDL? Lots of reference to Midway, Brownells, but no realapp chart.

I chose the International by the way because 90% of the time I probably wouldn't have the aperture in there for faster target acquisition and think tracking moving targets is easier without the structure of a Palma over the top of the sight picture. We'll see. Just what I'm thinking.

There are no holes in the BDL so I'll have to tap those in myself which I'm confident I can do. Can anyone help me out with the base and front sight to match or is that an experiment?

Thanks - T

 

[med17]

Re: Open sight ideas

Not sure what size your barrel is at the muzzle, but there are several band type mounts that mount to the end of the barrel and the front sight mounts to the band and is adjustable for height. Check Sinclair, Creedmore, Champions Choice, OK Weber, Superior Shooting, are a few I can think of that could help.

 

[DirtyDave]

Re: Open sight ideas

Are you dead set on sights? What if there was an optic that would do this? I know they are not out yet, but how about something like a USO 1-8x scope. True 1x at the low end with integral Red-Dot for the close/running shots and 8x on the high end which should get you to your desired 882yds with the correct DOPE.

 

[DP425]

Re: Open sight ideas

Here is my vote-

Get yourself a red-dot of whatever make you desire; put it into a solid quick detach mount that is RTZ. Confirm the mount IS IN FACT RTZ

Take your scope, put that into some rings that are RTZ rings. Confirm the rings ARE IN FACT RTZ.


Mount the scope when you get to your 880+ shot, leave the red-dot on it the rest of the time. Seems we're making this a bit harder than it needs to be.

 

[tenguns]

Re: Open sight ideas

Yea - maybe a little quick on the trigger but I've already bought the International - and they ain't cheap. I first bought a Williams which help endorse the idea. I want what will basically be a ghost ring rear site which is the MK-8 without the aperture out back.. with the option of making the longer shots without reliance on glass, electronics, finite internals. I thought of a red-dot but remembered reading once about dialing them "down to 2 MOA" and lost interest. 2MOA at 880 yards... admittedly I've got zip on red-dots thus far.

Once I taped the Williams to the rifle and looked through it short the aperture I was in business. I'm hoping I can get more repeatable accuracy out of the International, and like the Williams, I can look over it when on the move for faster tracking. In concept anyway.

I also considered the RTZ option and am experimenting with that solution on a muzzle-loader with a pair of Warne's and a B&C Lup but won't get too serious with that until all the states come back.. (tags).

I'm trying to take the technology out of it that inherently mucks up that once in long shot opportunity. Murphy. You'd think with 35MM lapping rings, alignment bars, pic-rails, inch-lb torque wrenches, locktight, experimentation and research I'd have it down... not.

So - the real question is, 1 - is there logged math associated with matching the rear international MK-8 to the front sight relative to height? And is there a simple way to get all the components needed relative to mounting the rear sight or is each setup just a science experiment?

Any help appreciated and thanks for those other ideas. I'm hoping because of the laws between states that the QD option works and can be replicated on other arms.