opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

[sheepfever]

I have a SA M1A super match that I had Champions Choice build for me back in 1990. I had plans to shoot comp and never did. Rifle has sat in the safe all this time. I have shot it maybe 50 rounds.

I am trying to decide whether to try to convert the rifle to one of the EBR platforms (Sage or Troy) or sell it and purchase an OBR or other. I don't see myself shooting in any type of comp in the future.

Hoping to hear from others that have been down this road

The gun would be set up to fill the gap between AR15 carbine and a 338 bolt.

I have read about the pros and cons here and on other forums. I am having trouble with taking a very well built rifle apart and trying to make it into something else.

I know there are a million variables so don't "bust my chops" for not listing all of them. I would have to make a 3 page post.

Thanks

 

[Schultztec]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I am in the same boat as well, and i would like to see peoples thoughts on this subject.

Chris

 

[Bennyboy]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I have a standard M1a that shoots exceptionally well for a standard--about 2 MOA. I considered dumping it all together for an AR10 of some sort, but I have decided that I am going to drop a Troy on it and try to squeeze some accuracy out of it, and attempt to get it to 1 MOA with handloads. Frankly, if I were just interested in a target/competition rifle, I would dump it and go with one of the fine AR10s--OBR, GAP-10, etc.....but I will fight to the death on the reliability argument of the M14 over these others, and that was my concern. Additionally, I don't feel bad about shooting 7.62 milsurp in it--I don't know how I would feel about running steel cased Norinco through a $3000 GAP-10.

But again, if I were only concerned with competition, I wouldn't screw with a M1A.

 

[OFIS]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Unless you're emotionally attached to the M1A, turn it into cash.

The 308 AR is entirely more versatile and any cons about them are entirely opinion based.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I do not see you said anything about what you are going to shoot with it. Without a plan, hold on to your money.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

you will never be 100% satisfied with the performance of the M1A, great battle rifle as long as you understand it's limitations.

sell it, buy an AR10 style platform

 

[BCP]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Either put a scope on it and go shoot (it might be okay, it might surprise you never know til you try) or sell it for an AR.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bennyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will fight to the death on the reliability argument of the M14 over these others, and that was my concern.</div></div>

LOL

 

[opshin556]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Sheepfever, have I got a story for you.
I purchased a springfield M1A loaded in 2008.
Great rifle as is it.
I wanted to make it a long range tactical gas gun.
I bought a Troy battle rail for scope mounting,= $300.00
USO 1.8-10 atop, = $2000.00
Archangel fitted stock = $150.00
hundreds of rounds and several frustrated range sessions later with various handloads, factory, everything I could find that people said was the best load.
I have never been able to get more than 1.5" group.
Also, the rifle now weighs 16+ pounds, it is not handy or quick and shoots half as well as my bolt .308.
I am now in process of returning rifle to original factory specs and keeping it as a classic rifle for nostalgia.
No matter what you do it, you wont get OBR or LMT AR-10 type handling or accuracy imo.
I am now saving up for an LMT .308.
Hope this helps.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Bennyboy]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bennyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will fight to the death on the reliability argument of the M14 over these others, and that was my concern.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> LOL

</div></div>

What is it exactly that you find humorous about this statement??? Again, I wouldn't ever be so ignorant to question which of these rifles has the clear and overwhelming accuracy advantage, I was only speaking to reliability. Not everybody goes to the range with 175 gr Black Hills and shoots 20 and goes home--some of us need the capibility to run ANY and all ammo that we have, from crappy Tula to FGGM to Lapua. I will likely NEVER run the latter, but do run handloads, but I run a ton more South African, Port, Chinese, etc, and it eats it all with zero complaints.

 

[BCP]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Ammunition tolerance has to do with the way the chamber is reamed more than anything else.

Not trying to bust your balls or shit on your rifle just figured I'd point that out.

 

[Bennyboy]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ammunition tolerance has to do with the way the chamber is reamed more than anything else.

</div></div>

Exactly my point.

 

[j.green]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Sheepfever,I also had the same dilemma.
I had a '91 supermatch and wanted an accurate battle rifle.

With the heavy barrel and the problem assoc. with mounting a scope
I decided to purchase the LMT and could not be happier.

On the bright side, yours being '90s manufacture it probably has
military parts and will bring a higher price if you decide to sell.

 

[dduck44]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I have an M1A NM w/SS barrel, Smith base and Leupold Mk4, Harris bipod, cheek piece and so on-it's a great rifle but I am looking hard at a GAP 10. No glass bedding, easier to clean and a sturdier optics mount.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I have an SR 25 and a few NM and full custom M1A rifles. LRB M25 with TRW parts and Kreiger barrel etc.
I really prefer the M1A's. All shoot about the same or just under the MOA mark. The M1a's point and shoot like a rifle the AR is not so much. For example, a 200 yard offhand running shot on a coyote is much easier with the M1A. I do like the AR 15 type rifles, but the AR10 is just a clunk in my hands. JMO

 

[08Cayenne]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Love my supermatch, and all my M1a's, it will shoot if you dial it in. I don't have an AR-10 to compare it to yet but a Gap 10 will be my next rifle, that is after I finish building my M14. My supermatch shot this at JaimieD's long range shooting school last summer during the final days test. 100 yards prone with a bipod. Not an exact measurement but you get the idea.

 

[03psd]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I have sold both of my M1As. Great nostalgic rifles but other than <200 yards iron sight work they didnt do it for me. I bought a LMT MWS in 6.5 and topped it with a USO SN3 3.2-17X. Once I get me handloads dialed in my 700 may get an eviction notice as well!

 

[sheepfever]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess the sum of all the posts is why I am having such a hard time deciding what to do with the M1A. I kind of fall in the middle when it comes to being stuck on the nostalgia of the M1A and the practicality of the AR-10. I can see by others experiences that trying to make the gun something it is was not designed to be can be a frustrating experience.

I would be setting the gun up as a mid range "battle rifle" just to have and practice with occasionally. I love my AR-15s but I am primarily a long range bolt guy

Leaning toward selling the rifle and ordering a OBR at this point. I think someone using the M1A for the purpose it was built for would get more enjoyment out of it than I will.

 

[scharfschutze762]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Unless you have a M1A with mostly GI parts it wont be in the same league as an OBR or MWS and will cost nearly as much into it be on the same level of performance especially with the price of GI parts these days. Sage and Troy chassis is a great way to go on a M14s but only the Sage is designed to truly accurize the platform while the troy has a excellent scope mounting platform..Scoping these things properly has always neen a problem and the side mount ones are the worst especially with wandering zero or stressing the receiver. Which is why M39 has a welded on scopemount. Once you put in the time, dedication, and $$$$ to make it a true modern milspec DMR gun its as good as any other 7.62 gasser out there.. If your new to m14s then I reccomend you consult with a experienced m14 builder because the stupidest little things can make the gun shoot great or like shit.

 

[sheepfever]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Sharfshutz

I agree with you about the scope mounting issue. That is part of the reason I have never shot it. I have a springfield side mount but never thought much of it.

I called the people that built it for me in 1990 and they offered to buy it. They stated that if had all the "good parts" in it that are hard to find now.

consulting with an experienced M14 builder is a great idea.

From what I can tell it is a good shooter

 

[Luke]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Sheep: I've been pursuing a quality, accurate, battle rifle myself, and my main reason for choosing the AR-10 platform is overall size. The collapsing stock and ability the split the upper & lower and throw it inside a backpack were key to my decision.

 

[sheepfever]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

good point Luke. The ar platform seems to be much easier to "break down"

The super match is pretty darn heavy also

 

[scharfschutze762]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Not all AR 7.62 platforms are created equal..some are plain junk waiting to break.
BTW do you have a medium or a heavyweight barrel on your?

 

[sheepfever]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I am not sure which contour barrel it has. I have never had it out of the stock. Is there a easy way to tell?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

The M1A is a great rifle for what it was designed to do, and for comps that favor that kind of shooting, like High Power N/M. It has a rep for bedding issues, and while many excellent examples exist where significant mods are applied, I think it's not the best platform for experimentation.

For flat-out consistency, I think the AR design provides the better choice. Combining the uncertainties of chasing loads and diagnosing accuracy issues with unique designs is a recipe for unneeded sleep disorders.

I also think you should trust your instincts; don't be fixing what ain't broke. I wouldn't mess with a successful rifle. I believe a new project demands a new rifle. Leave the successful projects in their niches and let them continue to do what you worked so hard to get them to do well.

Try the AR. My main point is that factory designs have the advantage of a proven performance standard. While I may dabble in some experiments, mine tend to be more tame, and very few of my rifles are anything more sophisticated than original factory designs. That's not by accident.

Greg

 

[doubledown]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I would sell the Super Match, its much too nice of a rifle to chop up. Use the money for an AR that will do what you want it to.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

switch to the AR10 and don't look back.

I have 2 M14s and M1A, and only reason I keep both is because I consider them as collectables. M1A's are not really home-smith friendly. You have to lap the bolt and time the barrel to get that "magic headspace" every time you change bolt or get a new barrel. AR's on the other hand, is just basically slap and go when it comes to bolts and barrels swap.

M1A's are very hard to scope unless you get a $800 stock set up. Getting a $800 stock is not really a terrible idea considering we spend that much on our Remington stocks, but there is really no point to spend that much when you can just get a AR10 that comes optic ready.

 

[m21black]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I always liked the M14 style rifle and own several, built a M21 configuration 14 with all TRW Parts and NM mods with a "Rock" barrel about 15 years ago in a McMillan stock, sports a Brookfield mount with a older Mark 4 6x scope. It shoots between .5 and .75 MOA on a good day, cost a lot of money and time to get there.
Had Predator Custom built a AR10 with a "Rock" barrel for a lot less money and right from the first string was shooting as good or better than the M21 on it's best day. Keep the M1A and build the AR10.

 

[sgtbutt]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I had a Stanadard M1A and my wife had a Loaded Med Weight M1A. For my wife's I used an ARMS 18 and had a Leupy MRT 3-9 on it. Mine was installed in an EBR Chassis and had a Leupy Mark 2 3-9 on it with a Springfield Mount.

Both of the rifles are gone, and although I miss mine, I'm glad I switched to the AR. I could only afford to have 1 semi auto 308 so the M1A got sold to fund My Mega MA-Ten Mono.

The system is a great platform and love it. Combined with an EBR Chassis and it's a great gun. Using a scope with a 14 variant and you have cheek weld issues, the EBR did nicely with solving that. I will have another in the future when I get a job that allows me to do so. My choice will most likely be an LRB M25 built up how I want it in an EBR chassis.

The rifle is what it is, they all are. It really comes down to your personal preference and you will have to make the choice.

 

[fnbrowning]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

In the early 90's I bought an M1A and had a NM job done by Clint Fowler of Virginia. The usual items inc. glass bedding, but no double-lug. Kreiger SS barrel.

The gun shot sub-MOA as expected with the usual M1A recommended ammo. Over several years, I noticed the groups begin to open up, even though I took exquisite care of the rifle, and was not a heavy shooter.

Then I happened upon Glen Zediker's book, "The Competitive AR15" I read a piece in there where he talked about what it took to make an M1A competitive, and <span style="font-style: italic">what it takes to keep it there</span>. He wrote something about the M1A accuracy being "here today somewhere else tomorrow." That really described what I was experiencing with my rifle. I realized that to keep the M1A in the sub-MOA game was to keep it tuned and skim re-bedding it.

However, as Glen and others have pointed out, the AR platform lends itself to inherit accuracy by better design. I sold the M1A and in 1999 bought my Armalite AR10A4B. Luv that rifle.

The image below is a 100yd target from my Armalite AR10A4B. I didn't write down the round count, but you can see it was 10 or more rounds. According to conventional wisdom, you're not supposed to be able to shoot that well with a '<span style="font-style: italic">damned by faint praise</span>' Armalite product.

To really confound the reader, it's a 1999 model with a 20" chrome-lined heavy barrel!

I will freely admit the rifle has a 2 stage trigger, JP Enterprises free-float tube, and the barrel was cryo-treated by 300 Below, Inc. 175gr Black Hills red box ammo.

If you decided to go the AR10 route, you don't have to have the pinnacle of gas-gun tech to shoot well. Choose wisely!

 

[scharfschutze762]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

That SM M1A sounds like a beauty and Id leave it alone as it was probably purpose built for serious SR match and has a unitized gas cylinder, real heavy barrel with a tight match chamber like the old m862 match by Mansen for comp service rifles which is overy tight for a fighting gas gun unless you plan on carrying mallet with you.
Take a hard look at the LMT MWS..a lot of no drama gun for the money.

 

[BrokenSailor]

M1a Supermatch is a Primo weapon

If you want a battle rifle stay with the M14. It will never jam on you like an AR in the mud and sand. There are options to deal with scope mounting besides those crappy side mounts. Usually a aftermarket stock such as an Sage EBR, Rogue, Troy, or JAllen. Glass bedding is a thing of the past IMO. I have five M14s of various configs. There are other virtues to the M14 other than shooting sub MOA groups. Bostons Gun Bible does a good job of discussing battle rifles and comparing them.

With a super match you are capable of hitting grapefruits at 1000 yds. It is 90% between your ears and 10% in your hands. The rifle will always be better than you. Take it to a Apple Seed Shoot and they will teach you how to shoot it. Get a military sling and learn to use it. If you want to make it better for CQB bed it in a Rogue stock. It will shorten the weapon yet retain the accuracy. Make it better balanced and easier to handle. It will still be heavy.

If all you want to do is bench shoot tight groups it takes a lot of work with any rifle/ammo. I have an old supermatch also in a GI fiberglass stock and it is a tack driver with iron sights. I would not sell it for anything. They are hard to come by. If you want to sell it, PM me.

 

[sheepfever]

Re: M1a Supermatch is a Primo weapon

The rifle has a single lug and is bedded in a Mcmillan fiberglass stock. I need to call the builder to get more info on the build so I know a little more about what I have.

A question I have for those that have converted to the ebr. If I try this route, is it a one way street? A couple videos I watched showed them beating on the op rod with a mallet? Makes me a little nervous. It also has the handguard epoxied.

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: M1a Supermatch is a Primo weapon


The flaw in opshins' analysis is he is yet to fire the rifle he plans to acquire so we can't tell if the problem lies in the rifle or the technique.

Off-the-rack Ar's are often more accurate than off-the-rack M1A's. Both are challenging to shoot well by hobbiests. Firing either well might require marksmanship training or conscious practice.

I built a Lr308 in 6.5x47 Lapua. I have an M1 that's been tuned and bedded by a marksmanhip unit armorer. Both these shoot well under MOA. The Garand can't miss Larue steel at 500 yards sitting and slung.

I think we miss a huge part of developing marksmanship discipline by skipping over pneumatic guns, shooting them in the back yard or basement areas, and thus maturing our skills, crawling before walking. The Garand and M1A are perhaps marksman's rifles. An air rifle or rimfire are training tools. I keep the squirrel population around here thinned with air rifles and this helps my marksmanship. Everyone needs good rim fires and air guns.

 

[m21black]

Re: M1a Supermatch is a Primo weapon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Everyone needs good rim fires and air guns. </div></div>

Best words of advice

 

[sheepfever]

Re: M1a Supermatch is a Primo weapon

Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson
Everyone needs good rim fires and air guns.



I agree that is why I have steel set up at my back yard from 100-250 yrds for my 40x 22lr and frequently shoot my 22cal match air rifle to 80ish yrds depending on the wind

 

[Ranger413]

Re: M1a Supermatch is a Primo weapon

I recently converted my M1A from Bush Rifle to EBR with a Sage stock. I was seriously considering an AR-10 type rifle before the converstion, but a friend of mine was parting with the Sage and I bought it. Before the conversion and after this rifle was 1 MOA or less.

For a scope and mounting system I went with the Sage cantilever base and a SWFA SS 10X. With the low Badger rings it just made it but I've since bought a American Defense mount to try as I was looking for a little more "swapability". Might have one mount with a fixed 10X and one with a lower powered variable, say 1-6X.

I think it is definately easier to scope an AR-10 type rifle. But I already had my M1A and I got a good price on the stock so I went that direction. The Sage stock is a bit better suited for iron sight and a forward mounted optic than a traditional scope. I'm making it work thus far.

 

[forsyth793]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I have several AR's and M1-A's and am currently piecing together the parts for a lightweight Scout M1-A as a grab and go rifle with a Jpoint sight to replace the standard rear sight.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I did the switch from a national match M1A to an AR10 several years ago and couldn't be happier, not gonna go back to the M1A anytime soon either.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

I am going to add more info to this thread...

I have 2 M14-types and 2 AR10's.

One of my M14-types I have set up for precision shooting, and one of my AR10's was bought out of the box as a precision shooter.

As I have them set up right, both guns are great. However, the AR10 is just easier to setup and smith. You can change the barrel on an AR10 yourself. Parts are also easily available for the AR10. Triggers, bolt jobs, and barrel change you can do yourself on the AR10. The M14, you need a smith every time you change the barrel or get a new bolt, for them to find you the "magic headspace". As for triggers, M14 triggers are dam expensive just for a GI type.. no such thing as a Gissele or Jewell for M14.

Right now I have both guns set up where I am really happy with them. My AR10 has the Gissele Hi-Speed Match trigger. That alone makes it a lot funner to shoot than my M1A.

I will say this about my M1A though, it holds tighter groups than my AR10 over 10 shots every time. My AR10 can do same hole accuracy for only 3 shots, after that the holes starts to spread, and over about 20 shots on the AR10, the same hole groups turn into 3 MOA groups.

My AR-10 trigger has a 8oz pull for 2nd stage, and my M1A has about a 3 lb pull for it's 2nd stage. Despite having the heavier trigger, I can get tighter 10 shot groups with my M1A almost every time.

Now for Pictures:

The Cartmann M110 Mod-12 Kenny Stabler "The Snake"
(base gun: Armalite AR10 SuperSASS)

The Cartmann M14 EBR Mod-87 Dave Casper "Ghost to the Post"
(base gun: Springfield M1A Loaded with SS barrel)

 

[sheepfever]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Nice guns Eric!!

Thanks for all the input and info.

Leaning toward keeping the M1A putting a NF on it and a cheek pc.

Then get a OBR also.

 

[fnbrowning]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will say this about my M1A though, it holds tighter groups than my AR10 over 10 shots every time. My AR10 can do same hole accuracy for only 3 shots, after that the holes starts to spread, and over about 20 shots on the AR10, the same hole groups turn into 3 MOA groups.
</div></div>

EricCartmann;
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Get that AR10 cryo treated!</span> It will not harm your barrel. The benefits that are likely to result from the treatment are possibly a longer barrel life and a increase in accuracy. If there are stresses remaining in the barrel after the machining process, they can be slowly released as a barrel warms up during firing. This causes the barrel to actually move during the course of shooting, causing inaccuracy.

While all barrel makers do conventional heat treating using elevated temperatures, in testing it has been found that the only effective means to completely remove the all the stresses is to do an additional -300 degree treatment. Metallurgist have stated that the deep cold treatment will remove at least 6% and often more of the remaining stresses in the type of steel used for rifle barrels. The key words here are remaining stresses. In other words if the barrel was stress relieved conventionally, then at least 6% of the original stress will remain. If the barrel has been treated conventionally with heat and then brought through the -300 degree cycle, any remaining stresses could be removed by the cold treatment. Also, for reasons not completely understood, there appears to be an increase in the wear resistance of the steel.

 

[BrokenSailor]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Nice pics. Where did you get that scope mount? That looks nice.

With regards to the Sage EBR....Have you tried to use the Fulton Clip guide mount for the rear ring, and the front rail to mount the front ring? It is a nice setup, but the bottom of the scope is bare to the receiver.

What do you guys think about concern for scope twist with this setup? So far I have not had issues with my Leo Mk4, but I worry. No stove piping with the setup which I cannot say for some of those crappy side mounts.

It is not a one way conversion BTW. You can always take it out of the Sage and put it back.

 

[cruze5]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

the m1a is an awesome battle rifle, I had one, bought rings, mount and scope. just didn't feel or shoot as accurate as I wanted it too. If money grew on trees I would have kept her, but I didn't

traded towards the ar10 platform and have been pleased

 

[sheepfever]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Eric

Is Dave Casper the smith that built the EBR?

 

[rockflatty]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

go with the ar-10 type rifle- it can be truly free-floated, has better optic mounting and better ergonomics, doesn't have as much mass moving upon cycling as the op rod on an m-14, and the chassis systems for the m-14 are just trying to mimick the ar-10. But all that said, the M-14 is just cool and has much more class.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

Go with an SR-25 pattern AR-308, if anything.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fnbrowning</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will say this about my M1A though, it holds tighter groups than my AR10 over 10 shots every time. My AR10 can do same hole accuracy for only 3 shots, after that the holes starts to spread, and over about 20 shots on the AR10, the same hole groups turn into 3 MOA groups.
</div></div>

EricCartmann;
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Get that AR10 cryo treated!</span> It will not harm your barrel. The benefits that are likely to result from the treatment are possibly a longer barrel life and a increase in accuracy. If there are stresses remaining in the barrel after the machining process, they can be slowly released as a barrel warms up during firing. This causes the barrel to actually move during the course of shooting, causing inaccuracy.

While all barrel makers do conventional heat treating using elevated temperatures, in testing it has been found that the only effective means to completely remove the all the stresses is to do an additional -300 degree treatment. Metallurgist have stated that the deep cold treatment will remove at least 6% and often more of the remaining stresses in the type of steel used for rifle barrels. The key words here are remaining stresses. In other words if the barrel was stress relieved conventionally, then at least 6% of the original stress will remain. If the barrel has been treated conventionally with heat and then brought through the -300 degree cycle, any remaining stresses could be removed by the cold treatment. Also, for reasons not completely understood, there appears to be an increase in the wear resistance of the steel.
</div></div>


I have heard good things about cyro, and though I do think it will help... However, I think the platform should also take some of the blame as the AR10 barrel tends to heat up more easily than the M14 or any other platform.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrokenSailor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice pics. Where did you get that scope mount? That looks nice.

With regards to the Sage EBR....Have you tried to use the Fulton Clip guide mount for the rear ring, and the front rail to mount the front ring? It is a nice setup, but the bottom of the scope is bare to the receiver.

What do you guys think about concern for scope twist with this setup? So far I have not had issues with my Leo Mk4, but I worry. No stove piping with the setup which I cannot say for some of those crappy side mounts.

It is not a one way conversion BTW. You can always take it out of the Sage and put it back.
</div></div>

The mount is an American-Defense Extended mount. Larue makes basically the same mount, both are just extended mounts for AR's.. however in this case I am using it "backwards" so I could avoid using those funky receiver mounts. I got this idea from one of the M14 forums and to me it is a best way to mount a scope on the M14.

Though I never tried the clip type mounts, I did not like it because you have to take off the scope to clean it. In addition once piece bases are much more superior in every way.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sheepfever</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eric

Is Dave Casper the smith that built the EBR? </div></div>


He is the person that the gun is named after.

 

[Nowind0]

Re: opinions-convert M1a or switch to AR-10 platform

If I were starting from scratch, the AR family is probably the way I would go. I came across a GREAT deal on a SOCOM a few years back and put it in a Sage stock. Man, that thing shoots like a house on fire. MOA with good surplus ammo. It is heavy, but it is the rifle everyone wants to shoot.