Rifle Scopes Optic Failures

[deersniper]

What all have you seen?
Broken lens? Loss of tracking? Did hard use precede the failure ?

 

[JMGlasgow]

My M14 Scout shook the lenses loose in a fixed power scope recently. I had a Vortex Viper Gen 1 PST take on water immediately after dunking it.

I once worked at Burris repairing scopes so I've seen everything from loose lenses and reticles to bent scopes to shot lenses and tubes. Some of the magnum pistols absolutely destroyed scopes.

I saw an elevation turret break completely off of a PST2 at a match, it was brand new.

 

[Birddog6424]

I saw an elevation turret break completely off of a PST2 at a match, it was brand new.

I've seen that twice now on Gen II PSTs.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Yep, the one I saw broke in the exact same spot.

 

[hafejd30]

Vortex Viper HS- elevation knob quit working. Only 50 or so rounds of 308 fired during load testing

Vortex Viper PST- Parallax knob didn’t work. New never fired

 

[Petrov]

Vortex Razor HD, something broke in the erector tube i think lost its clicks and wouldnt dial. Not sure if it broke or worn out. This was on a 308 with 7000 rounds on it.
Edit: forgot to mention Vortex CS was fucking amazing and fast. Will buy from them again.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

S&B PMII's: I've seen vario lock, ocular sheared off, turret sheared off, main tube dented, debris on internal lenses, probably some other stuff too I can't remember. Most of these were military scopes, some civilian ones too but hard use had a lot to do with it.

Premier Heritage: Faulty parallax, damaged first gen locking levers, elevation knob would continue to adjust elevation with locking lever disengaged. To be fair these were with early PH 3-15's, the 5-25's were the better scope, no so many issues. Hard use had little to do with these issues.

Leupold: Pinched tubes from vertically split rings, bent tubes, erector spring failures (tracking), canted reticles, off center reticles, debris on reticles, broken reticles (wire). A lot of the issues came down to age, some were used hard and put away wet, and the tracking issues came down to the erector springs being compressed for long periods of time. The off center reticle was a brand new scope, it was off by about several tenths of a mil left, very noticeable, it went back to Leupold and got replaced, the replacement was still a couple tenths off.

Nightforce: Faulty parallax on early 5-25 ATACR F1, off center reticle in 3-15 F1, and a stripped zero stop screw on 2.5-10X24. The 5-25 is the only one that has had to go back to NF, the 3-15 got swapped out by EuroOptic, and NF sent me a few extra zero stop screws for the 2.5-10, easy peasy.

Vortex: Nothing so far on my personal ones.

Burris: Nothing so far on the ones I've used

SWFA: 10X SS has debris on reticle. I'm debating on sending it back, it's not that bad.

US Optics: I saw one take in water at a very rain soaked match once. Shooter kept is rifle slung pointed up with no scope caps on and water just pooled in the objective lens, I guess eventually it found a way in.

 

[AznTactical]

Long story short after done hunting deer for the day at deer camp. Did a wheelie on an ATV. Rifle and optic slide out of the scabbard that was mounted on the side of the ATV, scabbard's end cap was not secured. Bent objective on scope and tons of other abrasions on rifle. Scope was a Vortex Viper HST. Sent it in and got a new one within 7 business days. Yes, Vortex covers stupidity!

 

[Northernjets]

Nikon Prostaff Rimfire II 3-9x40 on a Ruger 10/22: Reticle rotated on me on my first trip out. Nikon sent me a new one in return. Ended up selling it with my 10/22.

No issues with my Razor gen II 4.5-27x, AMG, PST II 5-25x or PST 2.5-10 ffp so far or any of the other ones I had in the past *knocks on wood*.

 

[Alpine 338]

Piece of epoxy that broke off under heavy recoil 338LM. Floated around in view of the reticle, but caused no performance issues. Repaired under warranty.

Seal leaked nitrogen, and scope fogged. Repaired under warranty.

View around reticle had dust particles, looked like paint over-spray. Repaired under warranty.

New scope(s) that didn't track correctly, from two different manufacturers, and repaired under warranty.

New scope that had lubrication splatter in view of the reticle, no performance issues. Repaired under warranty.

Used scope(s) I purchased off of the Hide, from two different manufacturers, reticle was canted, and repaired under warranty.

Used scope I purchased off of the Hide, would not hold zero, repaired under warranty.

Scope (rifle mounted) fell 4-ft, impacting the elevation turret (first point of impact) on a hard tile floor. Gouged and scratched the top of the knob. Knocked the zero off. Re-zero the scope, and it worked fine. Wasn't sure if tracking was off? Parallax was quite not right to begin with on the scope, so I sent it in for repair. Warranty covered the parallax issue, I had to pay for the damaged elevation knob repair and tracking test.

Six different brands from Asia, Europe, and USA. I didn't list the brand names, because one failure out of a million reported on the internet, gets regurgitated, then becomes a high failure rate problem. All scopes fail, all scopes break, all scopes wear out over time, they are a mechanical device, and all mechanical devices eventually have problems.

Edited to add a couple more scopes I forget about earlier.

 

[Elnino31]

Nightforce NXS 1-4 : illumination failed, NF fixed for free.

3 other NXS and 1 ATACR all issue free thus far

Kahles 6-24 : Internal mechanism broke on the elevation adjustment. Scope was a month old.

Vortex PST Gen 1 : broken turret

 

[BigJimFish]

IOR Valdada: broken objective lens on the pitbull 1/4. This was despite using very low torque on IOR's own rings with a torque wrench. In my opinion the main tube was just way to thin on a scope requiring mounting with a ring directly over the objective.

Nikon black ffp: Adjustments lagged some going up (internals lagged behind knob until recoil would jar them loose). Diopter on scope also could not bring it all the way into focus. Really, just defective out of the box.

USO: Dust on reticle. Not uncommon with these and scope continued to function fine.

Leupold Mark 6 3-18x: Started with tracking and reticle size accurate but eventually settled in to reticle being 1% large and adjustments tracking about 2% small. I also think that it didn't look as good optically as originally. Scope was not broken, but I was less than happy with what it settled in to and how far it had settled from original condition (settling in on scopes is not uncommon but is usually less in magnitude.)

 

[mgrs]

ACOG- windage assembly turned right out of the housing on a new TA31, a few other broken units that would not zero any longer. Really impressive/durable optic considering the failure rate for the number I have seen around.

Lots of broken aimpoints. Earlier M2 type breaks a lot more than M4 type. Almost always the brightness rheostat or battery housing threads.

NF- NX8 1-8 accumulated a lot of debris in/around the reticle that reflected illumination after the first few firings.

Vortex- Razor 1-6 upper line in crosshair widened and then separated.

Considering the complexity and precision in these things, it is amazing they hold up as well as they do.

Is it considered a failure or problem in FFP optics when the image flickers or 'shudders' when changing direction on the magnification ring?

 

[6AYoteHunter]

Vortex PST something shifted out of place image no longer clear, gotten worse, will be getting a replacement soon.

Bushnell Tactical XRS broken spring. Returned.

Redfield lens loosened. Leupold sent out new scope.

Leupold Mark 6 reticle not centered, fixed in 5 days

 

[jakelly]

I really hope Lowlight has a spreadsheet somewhere with all those IOR failures.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Is it considered a failure or problem in FFP optics when the image flickers or 'shudders' when changing direction on the magnification ring?

No, it's a byproduct of the FFP design where the reticle is in front of the erector, it magnifies everything. If there are imperfections in the scroll that the magnification lenses in the erector move along then they'll manifest themselves as reticle jump. It may look like the reticle is jumping all over but in reality it isn't that much and it's not affecting your POI anyway. Is it distracting? Yeah, I've had S&B's, NF, and Leupolds with reticle jump but they were otherwise perfectly functional.

Edited to add: That being said, if the reticle jump seems excessive you should be able to send it back to checked out to see if it's in tolerance. If there's too much reticle jump it could indicate an issue internally that could lead to vario lock where it locks the magnification ring because the lenses are jammed.

 

[mgrs]

No, it's a byproduct of the FFP design where the reticle is in front of the erector, it magnifies everything. If there are imperfections in the scroll that the magnification lenses in the erector move along then they'll manifest themselves as reticle jump. It may look like the reticle is jumping all over but in reality it isn't that much and it's not affecting your POI anyway. Is it distracting? Yeah, I've had S&B's, NF, and Leupolds with reticle jump but they were otherwise perfectly functional.

Thanks for the explanation. I’d never looked into it because the optics were fine otherwise.

 

[beetroot]

Never broken a scope and in the past I've had some cheap and nasty scopes.
I mustn't be rough enough with my equipment.

 

[loveha]

Only thing so far is just debris in a NX8 1-8.

 

[ken226]

I really hope Lowlight has a spreadsheet somewhere with all those IOR failures.

Yea, because so far the running tally is up to 11 Vortex, 3 or 4 Nightforce, several Schmidt Bender, 2 USO and 1 IOR!

It'll need to be a long list to catch Vortex.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Maybe the tally for IOR's is so low because hardly anyone here uses them.

 

[Rob01]

Yea, because so far the running tally is up to 11 Vortex, 3 or 4 Nightforce, several Schmidt Bender, 2 USO and 1 IOR!

It'll need to be a long list to catch Vortex.

Add 4 USOs that didn't track right out of the box and USO said they were "close enough", 2 Leupolds that didn't track after 15 MOA, S&B with a frozen turret and a NF with a messed up zero stop.

Also you might want to add up the price tags of the scopes involved and not just the company.

 

[ken226]

Add 4 USOs that didn't track right out of the box and USO said they were "close enough", 2 Leupolds that didn't track after 15 MOA, S&B with a frozen turret and a NF with a messed up zero stop.

Also you might want to add up the price tags of the scopes involved and not just the company.

I didn't mean to sidetrack deersnipers thread, but couldn't help it. I don't own or give a shit about IOR.

But with that list, and then the IOR bashing. A moment of humor was in order.

 

[Tunnuh]

IOR provides humor regardless here.

I would be more concerned with overall failure percentage by line rather than brand.

I'd like to know the true defect ratio by product line for manufacturing process or design failure rather than an anecdotal, "yeah those suck usually", or "they have a good warranty because they need to". No company does well with R&R at a high percentage. That's too costly.

Also, what percentage of returns are because of user induced failure? If a company backs that person up anyhow; that's a company I will buy from.

 

[ken226]

IOR provides humor regardless here.

I would be more concerned with overall failure percentage by line rather than brand.

I'd like to know the true defect ratio by product line for manufacturing process or design failure rather than an anecdotal, "yeah those suck usually", or "they have a good warranty because they need to". No company does well with R&R at a high percentage. That's too costly.

Also, what percentage of returns are because of user induced failure? If a company backs that person up anyhow; that's a company I will buy from.

IOR provides humor, or @phillip61 does?

I agree, that info would be gold.

 

[Birddog6424]

I've broken two different Vortex 24x Gen I PSTs.

Two different Bushnells, an inexpensive Sportview and an ERS.

And a Leupold MK8 CQBSS 1-8. I came in a little too fast into a 3 Gun dumpbox..

 

[RHINOWSO]

Burris Droptine - debris in the reticle, returned and they fixed for free

Vortex PST Gen 2 1-6x24 - faulty illumination in the first batch, returned and Vortex replaced it with a new one for free (which has been fine)

Trijicon Accupower 1-4x24 - debris in the reticle after a drop at a rifle class, just at the edges and it still worked fine but I had it sent back and they replaced it for free.

NF - none

Aimpoint - none

Leupold - back half of a spotting scope came off, they replaced it for free. Very lightly used but 5-6 years old, I guess the cheap Chinese glue dried up (it was a gift).

 

[wompa]

S&B none
NF none
Leupold mk6 failed tracking

 

[Vargmat]

Years ago, I managed to bust a Vortex PST gen 1, beeing clumsy, I got a replacement from Vortex with no questions asked. They saved my shooting season that year. Vortex warranty is crazy good.

A friend had an IOR that would not track, then the reticle illumination went down. He sent it in and was sent a scope in return. Not his scope, mind you, but someone elses which was similar but not the same scope. It took a lot of time to try and sort it out, but eventually the dealer repaid his money, since IOR had no idea where his acctual scope went.

I have seen the parallax turret go down on a Schmidt PM2 3-27x56 at a competition. Another PM2 had something come loose inside the scope, was repaired with no questions asked in less than a 4 week turn around (From Sweden to Germany and back).

That is about it, acctually.

 

[6cmShooter]

Had something inside the elevation turret come un done on my first gen bushnell elite xrs. Didnt realize it until I wa shooting a club match and no matter what I did it kept shifting the shots everywhere. Sent it back to bushnell and they had it fixed in a couple weeks with no charge

 

[Kickin45]

Leupold MK4 the reticle would move inside. Was so minimal at first, I thought maybe my rings were loose because I kept losing my poi.
I finally saw the reticle cant during a shot and then almost totally collapse.

 

[eightyeight mag]

.

 

[DOA]

Also you might want to add up the price tags of the scopes involved and not just the company.

Yup, ruling out the Vortex PST's, crossfires, strike eagles and vipers I think might sway the numbers by a wide margin.

 

[ken226]

Yup, ruling out the Vortex PST's, crossfires, strike eagles and vipers I think might sway the numbers by a wide margin.

Of course. I don't doubt that at all. But even after discounting those, it still leaves everyone's favorite brands breaking 3 or 4 to 1 more often than those hated, junk IOR scopes.

SB, Khales, Nightforce, Leupold, USO, etc etc.

I'm sure that in the next couple posts we'll start guessing about sales figures, the we can come up with any number of explanations. Still just guesses though .

I'm not picking on Vortex. I love the way Vortex takes care of their customers. They are one of my favorite companies. I'm still holding out for a 3-18 AMG.

I just found it funny given the makeup of the stats so far, that someone decided to pop-in with some IOR bashing. That's some funny shit.

 

[deersniper]

Who has bought a IOR in the past 10-15 years? Are they still in business. Hard to have failures with a scope no one uses lol

 

[atepointer]

I have a friend who cracked the ocular lens on a Trijicon ACOG in a couple of hundred rounds of 300bo....he's a member here maybe he will read this and expound.

 

[steve123]

2 less expensive Bushnells, a 4200 series 6-24 and a 6-18. Both repaired.

One IOR 6-24 broke, something with the parallax. They sent me a new one.

Lost the clicks on S&B MTC which was repaired.

SWFA 3-15, side focus broke off. They sent a new one.

Out of many Athlon's I've owned or sold only one small problem which we fixed ourselves in a few minutes.

 

[Rerun7]

I had a razor 1-6 break right before a run n gun comp last year. The fiber optic came lose from the reticle and created a triangle on the verticals post with the dot being way off to the right.

I didn’t have time to change it out and re-zero so I ran it as is. It held zero fine and I ended up placing in the top 5 with it. Got it changed out right after.

 

[beenjammin]

Add 4 USOs that didn't track right out of the box and USO said they were "close enough", 2 Leupolds that didn't track after 15 MOA, S&B with a frozen turret and a NF with a messed up zero stop.

Also you might want to add up the price tags of the scopes involved and not just the company.

Rob01 took the words right out of my mouth. These are what i have experienced as well almost exactly with USO and NF. My leupold mark 4 came from the factory with the reticle way off center and a Bushy HDMR wouldnt focus. All went back and came back GTG.

JerryR fixed a few Schmidts but those were caused by the owner.

 

[Kickin45]

Who has bought a IOR in the past 10-15 years? Are they still in business. Hard to have failures with a scope no one uses lol

My first ‘high end scope’ was one of their 8-32 models. It ran like a pro. Never had an issue with it. Only reason I got rid of it was because I looked through a Swaro Z5 and realized the glass was comparatively lacking in the IOR.
I won’t own another now because of the reputation, too expensive of a gamble.

 

[erwos]

PFI RR-800-1: reticle rotated.
Eotech SU-231: delaminated slightly and lost nitrogen purge.

 

[LiveToDrive]

Andy's Viper 1-4 bad tracking sent to Vortex and fixed, got it back, bad tracking sent to Vortex and fixed, Vortex told Andy his rings are too tight, got it back, bad tracking sent to shelf where it now lives...
Matt's Viper 1-4 canted reticle sent to Vortex and fixed
Side note, my Viper 1-4 has never had never a problem, still going strong. Most used scope I own.
Erik's VX3 4.5-14 black particles in lens, Leopold says it's fine...

 

[wb00757]

Shot 6 prs type matches last year and saw very few failures. These were local matches with a very wide range of gear. There were several no name or combo deal type scopes that never worked so I cont consider those failures. I did see one PST gen 1 stop tracking. Every other failure was an Athlon... I think lower end like the Talos. They stopped tracking or just wouldn't hold zero. I don't have anything against Athlon but that that was my first time seeing any and it kinda put a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe problems were caused by over torqued rings, shitty mounts/rings, user error? I couldn't say.

I did expect to see more failures based on what I see/hear on here. It was fun beating guys on some stages that were using Khales, NF & ZCO with my fixed power SWFA

 

[thehun]

Had too many Vortex PSTs fail than I care to list...don't really care for that line. Don't even bring up the Strike Eagle...both are fine for plinking and range monkeys...good warranty...but there is a reason those optics are priced at the prices they are priced at...lol...learned the hard way. Vortex warranty is solid though.

I've had:

Bushnell Elite with the reticle off to the left a good .7 mils...

Leupolds with debris...had a CQT with a bad erector tube...

Meopta...loose eyepiece, mismached turrets...3 out 3 Meoptas had either loose eyepieces or out of spec diameter inside creating a concave feel...

Steiner...loose illumination knob and no lube for the mag ring

Trijicon...bad etched reticles, uncleaned prisms and dust particles

Nightforce...unwashed lenses

As long as humans touch something...there is a chance for issues...price due matter in terms of robustness...but again...mechanical things can break...as long as companies stand behind the product...it is all good to go. But if you cheap out on optics...your chances of failure go up under hard use...

Plinking and being range ninjas do not constitute hard use...lol...

 

[Baner]

Only issues i have had in the last 10 years is.

Kahles k624i gen 1 that came with a uberstiff parallax adjustment, could barely move it when it got really cold. Got fixed on warranty with no issues.

Vortex viper PST gen 2 3-15 that came with a cracked objective lens(one of inner layers had a hairline crack), could barely notice it but got a new one on warranty.

 

[OneMoreNoMore]

S&B pmii 5-25 reticle shifts (rocks) back and forth when magnification ring is turned. Rubber grip on mag ring has broke its bond and slips around the scope making it hard to adjust now.
Had a Burris black diamond that the side focus didn’t work. Sent it back and they never did fix it.
Kahles no problems
ZCO no problems
Razor gen 2 no problems

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Burris T5X. One of the early ones. Did not track, had a canted reticle and was this weird grey color. Got it back and sold it right away.
Bushnell 1-6 took a tumble down a dirt trail. Crushed the objective. Sent back to Busnhell who repairs it for $90
Vortex PST HS 4-16 turret sheared off. Sent it back and sold the replacement ricky tick.
IOR 2-12 . Turrets spun off and screws were stripped from factory. Sent it back to Val for replacement and sold the POS.
3-10 Midway special Weaver Tac. Could not get it to zero for life of me. Sent back for replacement and sold it.
Burris Tac30 that was like looking through muddy water. Not sure if they were all that bad but got rid of quick.
Dozens of Aimpoints over the years. Not a knock on them but anything thrashed and trashed can and will fail over time. Mostly M68 CCO'

Scopes That I never had issues with

1-4 Short Dot
SS 10x42
SS 5-20
Bushnell ET scopes
Steiner Military Scopes
Acogs, tried to kill a few but couldn't. Fiber got destroyed but still ran and held zero.
Eotechs believe it or not. Had great luck with the EXPS model. Inline batteries on any optic is a bad idea.

 

[DDT]

SuB 5-25 PMII three scopes mounted on service rifles TRG42 (2) and TRG22 (1) - parralax on them stopped working (image blurry all the time)
USO LR17 dirt like fog or milk on reticle lens inside the scope - new out of the box
Hensoldt - Airbuss DS Optronics 4-16x56 FFP mil dot reticle canted (not square to the turrets) new out of the box
Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x24 canted triangle reticle (not square to the turrets) new out of the box
Eotech 552 delamination of the lenses

 

[M8541Reaper]

Leupold MK4: SFP Mil Ratio Loss

Had an issued one that decided it was going to no longer keep to reticle scale/spec when magnification was increased to max (where it was supposed to be for the reticle to be at a 1:1 scale). Found out the hard way during a UKD portion of a cert course when we were discussing our mil readings and I laughed at my buddies who both were like a full mil off... I quickly realized that I was the one fucked up. Pulled it off the line and replaced it with the spare we had (thankfully the stolen valor piece of shit wannabe, who the other rifle was for, never got cleared to attend).

Nightforce NXS F1: Illumination/Battery Cap

Purchased it secondhand from a guy who had it cerakoted. The glue that keeps the illumination/parallax turret mated with the internal battery cap came unglued. I’m assuming this happened when he had it cerakoted. Illumination still worked as it should as did the parallax, I just couldn’t access the battery. I could have easily repaired it by putting a drop of glue but figured I’d let them do it and give it a once over. Called Nightforce and it was repaired and back to me I think within a week or so. First time I ever had an issue with a NF, be it work or personal NXS F1s or ATACRs.

S&B PMII (M8541 SSDS): Lost Reticle

In SSBC, my partner’s reticle disappeared while shooting. This was the original M8541 with the yellow windows. Middle of the COF he was suddenly all over the place and saying his reticle disappeared. Yes it’s etched and yes we all looked through it after calling him blind. It was somehow super faint and could barely be seen. They pulled it and replaced it with another.

 

[Birddog6424]

Burris T5X. One of the early ones. Did not track, had a canted reticle and was this weird grey color. Got it back and sold it right away.

Steiner makes the T5Xi