Rifle Scopes Optical/Mechanical Quality: Bushnell & Vortex Razor HD

[Eric B.]

I'm just about to pull the pin on a new scope.

I'm leaning a lot to the Bushnell HDMR with H 59 reticle because I like its "second shot" capability with that Horus reticle.

But I suppose the Vortex Razor (HD model) has better glass. Is it THAT much better than the HDMR?

How about the mechanical quality of each? i.e. repeatability & durability.

 

[FALex]

If it means anything to you, I just sold one of my Razor's and I am buying an HDMR tomorrow. You can read about my experiences with Vortex products here:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/197074-best-ar10-scope-$1500.html

scroll just over the first half of that page and my post is around the beginning of the second half.

I, personally, have had terrible experiences with Vortex products. Obviously, they have their fan base, and I expected the ad hominems, etc...regardless of that crap, my poor experiences remain. I am not on here to bash them, but folks do take criticisms of things they have spent big money for, personally (as what happened in that post). I will continue to state my opinion and relay my experiences when solicited.

As a company, they are great. They had no issues rectifying each and every problem I had with their scopes. People like them for their value: features to price ratio.

As such, I think the glass on the Razor is slightly brighter than the HDMR's. I truly do like the EBR 2B reticle and lament the fact that no other brand has that reticle. The G2 reticle is as close as I will get to it. I know 3 people with HDMR's, and they have nothing but good things to say about them and they are shooters.

 

[17874]

I have a Razor and I love it. Glass is great, it tracks true, and it always holds zero. I don't think you could go wrong with either, but is Bushnell's warranty even close to Vortex?

 

[Captramrod01]

FALex has been on his soap box for a week now telling anyone who will listen how shitty his experience with the Razor was. Ya dude we get it, you drew one in a million and got 2 bum Razors.

OP, I personally have owned a Razor (running Steiners now) and have shot the Bushys. I personally thought the glass was pretty close between them with an edge to the Razor. Mechanically the Razor feels more robust. Either way I'm sure you will be happy.

 

[jrob300]

All FALex has convinced me of with this tirade is to ignore everything he says.

Here's a review I wrote a while back: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...824-field-test-razor-v-ss-v-dmr-g2-v-nxs.html

The EBR-2B reticle will give you a lot of the Horus' operational functionality. If you can get the HDMR cheap, do it. If you can afford the Razor, it's a very nice piece of equipment and the Bushy is not really in its league.

John

 

[Rob01]

H 59 reticle because I like its "second shot" capability with that Horus reticle.

Any reticle can do that. You just have to know how to use the reticle. Never owned a Horus, have used them, but have no problems with second shots when needed.

To the Vortex, the Razor is an excellent scope in all categories.

 

[Eric B.]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the input. I'll look closely at the Razor (HD version only) and its EBR-2b reticle in particular.
I have Bushnell Fusion binos and like them a lot. Great quality, so I know the "new" Bushnell has made great strides.

I do remember, being a geezer, that Bushnell bought our Bausch and Lomb. B&L was, at one time, better than Leupold. So perhaps Bushnell's Elite line of optics is its plan to return to the high B&L standards.

 

[Enough Said]

My Razor tracks 99.8%. Hard to beat.

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

I don't think you could go wrong with either, but is Bushnell's warranty even close to Vortex?

Yes actually, the Bushnell Elite warranty is practically the same, on paper, as the Vortex warranty - lifetime for any owner of the scope, no warranty card or receipt needed, etc. Vortex has a great reputation for warranty service while what I've read of Bushnell is a mixture of great and minor hassles (delays and slow to return calls, is all I remember reading), but I consider Bushnell's warranty one of the better ones around.

Bushnell also offers a 1-year money back satisfaction guarantee on their Elite line of scopes. Check out how its written on their site, don't trust my word alone, but to my knowledge they are the only company offering that kind of satisfaction guarantee, beyond the standard mechanical warranty.

 

[Rob01]

Yes actually, the Bushnell Elite warranty is practically the same, on paper, as the Vortex warranty - lifetime for any owner of the scope, no warranty card or receipt needed, etc.

Are you sure? I couldn't find this on their site. I found this:

"Since 1984, the majority of our Bushnell sports optics products have been covered by a Limited Lifetime Warranty. Bushnell Outdoor Products guarantees those products to be free of defects in materials and workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner."

Bushnell - Warranty Information

 

[cb_tikka]

It's in the manual and only applies to the Elite.


We are so proud of our Bushnell® ELITE® Tactical HDMR™

Riflescopes that their materials and workmanship are warranted to be free of defects for the life of the ELITE Tactical HDMR Riflescope. The warranty is available to any owner of the ELITE Tactical HDMR Riflescope.

No receipt or warranty card is required. This warranty does not cover damages caused by misuse or improper handling, installation or maintenance of the riflescope

 

[Rob01]

I wonder why it's not on their site? They should have it on there as well as they break down the warranty for other products on the page.

Also Vortex does cover damage due to unintentional damage by the user. It's just deliberate damage that isn't covered. That is nice.

Vortex Tactical - VIP Warranty

 

[jrob300]

I really don't care *WHAT* someone puts in writing... I care about the execution. Vortex has taken great care of me. If I am unhappy with something, they jump through hoops to fix it. They are extremely responsive and go way out of their way to make the experience as painless as possible. I've had scopes overnighted back to me cuz' I needed them by a match. They have sent me parts for free THAT I RUINED!

Bushnell?? Not so very much. I had some issues with a DMR G2 and it was like pulling teeth to even get them to look at it. When they finally agreed to look at it, it was found to be "in spec". Huh. I asked about having it replaced and they would not because "it was in spec". If that scope was "in spec" then they need to take a serious look at their acceptance criteria. The image quality was horrible and every person that looked at it agreed that it looked worse than a $75 Simmons hunting scope.

I, the customer, was NOT HAPPY and they the manufacturer refused to take care of me. This is my bottom line and why I will continue to buy Vortex products. All manufactured products have issues and I want to deal with a company that believes, from top to bottom, that my satisfaction is top priority.

John

 

[-Nick-]

folks do take criticisms of things they have spent big money for, personally (as what happened in that post)

Lol... Yup it was all because we're emotionally charged due to money spent and it's not like we have a choice or have ever owned other top tier glass. But you go one thinking it's "us" taking things personal and not really you doing what's your favorite word again? Oh yeah... "exaggerating".

 

[Rob01]

I agree John but I think that it should be on the website and not just in a paper with the scope as if they wanted everyone to see it and use it as a selling point they should be proud of the fact. Where and what is written is important.

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

I agree it should be on their website. In general their website is clumsy and difficult to use. It's remotely possible it even is there somewhere, but I can't find it. As already noted it's in the manual that comes with an Elite scope.

Here's the money-back guarantee info:

Bushnell - Bullet Proof Money Back Guarantee

 

[Red_SC]

But I suppose the Vortex Razor (HD model) has better glass. Is it THAT much better than the HDMR?

How about the mechanical quality of each? i.e. repeatability & durability.

We compared these two, along with several others, a few weeks ago. The Razor had slightly better resolution in the last few minutes of light, otherwise there wasn't much difference. I wouldn't let glass quality dictate your decision, they're both pretty good. No problems with mechanical quality on my buddy's Razor or the 3 or so G2DMR's that our group has.

 

[scudzuki]

I agree it should be on their website. In general their website is clumsy and difficult to use. It's remotely possible it even is there somewhere, but I can't find it. As already noted it's in the manual that comes with an Elite scope.

Here's the money-back guarantee info:

Bushnell - Bullet Proof Money Back Guarantee

Read the form from the link you posted. The bullet proof warranty is only good for products purchased last year.

Joe

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

Read the form from the link you posted. The bullet proof warranty is only good for products purchased last year.

Joe

The form, pulled up 5 minutes ago, states that the "bullet proof money back guarantee" (not the warranty) is good for products purchased between 1/1/2012 and 12/31/2013. We're still in 2013. Maybe they'll renew it next year, or not, you can see if it's still in effect then when deciding whether to try their product on this basis.

http://www.bushnell.com/getmedia/bf...db68ba6333d/Bullet-Proof-Money-Back-Guarantee

I don't work for or represent Bushnell. I have no dog in the fight. I simply see people here sometimes suggesting that the Vortex warranty is in a whole different class from anyone else's, which I don't think is true, at least for what companies promise to do. Maybe Vortex upholds its promise and others don't, which is a good discussion to have here. And people have varying experiences. I had a so-so experience using Leupold's warranty, while many find it great. I've read of people who were totally happy with Bushnell warranty service, and others who had issues. There are even two guys posting here who claim to have had issues with Vortex service (though some of it seems to be butthurt rather than real problems). YMMV, etc.

But, on paper at least, you get about the same warranty from Bushnell (on the Elite line), Leupold, Sightron, and probably several others. If you're the first owner and keep the receipt, you also get a lifetime warranty on Weaver scopes - although I don't consider a "prove you bought it at retail" warranty nearly as good as the "any owner lifetime" that the first four offer.

 

[scudzuki]

Whoops, caught posting before my morning coffee again, you think I'd know better.

Joe

 

[Rob01]

I simply see people here sometimes suggesting that the Vortex warranty is in a whole different class from anyone else's, which I don't think is true,

Sorry but you are wrong. The Vortex warranty covers unintentional damage by user. The others don't. Drop the scope accidentally? Covered. Tighten rings too much? Covered. Has been discussed on here by people that have done these and gotten them fixed. Try that with others. The Vortex warranty is better.

 

[Bangarang]

I'm a big fan of the Bushnell Elites (mostly 4200s) on many of my short-medium range hunting rigs. I've never had one go south on me so far (knock on wood.). I've picked up some of the illuminated 30mm 3.5-10x50 for good prices on eBay. Relatively heavy but decent glass for the price for hunting the deep woods.

Anyway, a couple months ago I was contemplating buying some of the significantly more expensive used Bushnells. Called the Bushnell to inquire about the transferability of the warranties. Was told emphatically that warranties are NOT transferable. Was also told they are seeing more and more fake / knockoffs of Bushnell scopes being shipped in for service by unsuspecting buyers.

I don't know if this is just service department propaganda to discourage the reselling / buying of used Bushnell scopes, but its unwelcome news as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Landon]

I simply see people here sometimes suggesting that the Vortex warranty is in a whole different class from anyone else's, which I don't think is true, at least for what companies promise to do. Maybe Vortex upholds its promise and others don't, which is a good discussion to have here. And people have varying experiences.

I see some have disagreed already with this comment. I would add Vortex responds quickly and without hassle when dealing with issues. There is not very much grey area when fixing issues, their default position is pretty strongly in favor of the shooter. I have only used their customer service for upgrades but they were great. They even upgraded my old eye box free of charge when they came out with an upgraded version.

I have both scopes and go back and forth shooting them quite a bit. I really like both but my go to rifle has the vortex on it right now. I think you can help yourself a lot making the decision if you compare features and start from there. They have some differences that might sway you one way or another.