Origin vs TL3 - reasons to spend more?

[amedeo1227]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but is there any specific reason a person should spend the extra money on a TL3 vs saving some dollas and buying the less expensive Origin?

i think the Origin is not stainless, but the TL3 is, right?

Integral recoil lug on the TL3, and the straight, instead of swept, bolt handle.

what am I missing?

 

[Supersubes]

The TL-3 is stainless. I’ve handled a handful of each and own both currently. The TL-3’s are all a little a smoother and lighter to operate. If money is an issue, get the origin and don’t think twice.

 

[YerrowSniper]

Buy once cry once’s what I told myself
Having a 308 and a 6mm ARC being built on some TL3s

 

[Kimber.204]

The bolt lift on the origin is much heavier than the TL3. If you're shooting off of a bipod or steady rest you may not notice.

The Origin has Rem style feed lips and can be used with either AICS mags or BDL bottom metal.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

You can't flex on the poor by saving money.

 

[amedeo1227]

LMFAO!!!!!!!!

 

[amedeo1227]

I got the TL3 because of Cascade

LOL

 

[EN2722]

I went through this exact same dilemma a few months ago.

I’ll say, it really boils down to two things.

1. Money. If you are asking what’s the difference between the $400 ish dollar difference. It’s minimal.

2. Recoil lug. If you’re looking to do an action with multiple barrels then the TL3 is recommended because of the recoil lug...

It takes less than 10 minutes for me to switch between 6 Creedmoor and 260 Remington with the Zermatt Arms action wrench.

Either way, you’ll be happy.

 

[amedeo1227]

I went through this exact same dilemma a few months ago.

I’ll say, it really boils down to two things.

1. Money. If you are asking what’s the difference between the $400 ish dollar difference. It’s minimal.

2. Recoil lug. If you’re looking to do an action with multiple barrels then the TL3 is recommended because of the recoil lug...

It takes less than 10 minutes for me to switch between 6 Creedmoor and 260 Remington with the Zermatt Arms action wrench.

Either way, you’ll be happy.

I do plan on doing a bunch of barrel swaps. I went with TL3

May I ask what barrel vice you use?

 

[EN2722]

I do plan on doing a bunch of barrel swaps. I went with TL3

May I ask what barrel vice you use?

Sure.

I use the Wheeler one with the oak blocks. I’ve never had an issue. I do recommend using pine resin to hold the barrel between the oak blocks.

 

[YerrowSniper]

Sure.

I use the Wheeler one with the oak blocks. I’ve never had an issue. I do recommend using pine resin to hold the barrel between the oak blocks.

Can we a picture pretty please?

 

[EN2722]

I can dig out the oak blocks if needed

 

[YerrowSniper]

I can dig out the oak blocks if needed

Cool!
I am waiting on 2 TL3s.
I don’t think I change barrel anytime soon

 

[EN2722]

Here’s my TL3

 

[YerrowSniper]

Here’s my TL3

What’s that tripod setup?

 

[EN2722]

What’s that tripod setup?

Innorel RT90 and Innorel N52 ball head with an Abel Co table and a pint size game changer

 

[YerrowSniper]

Innorel RT90 and Innorel N52 ball head with an Abel Co table and a pint size game changer

Cool!

 

[archangel485]

To the OP, I know you've already went with the TL3, but I figured I'd share this as I remembered reading it earlier this year. The best I have seen to this is from the manufacturer, Ray from Zermatt commented on this just a few months ago. See post #3 of the below thread. He has commented elsewhere through the thread too.

Besides the below, the last I knew (maybe it has changed) the Origin had a much shorter lead time, mine took about 3 weeks.

Bighorn ( Zermatt ) TL3 vs Origin

I'm looking to build a rifle off of a Bighorn action. I'm wanting a precision rifle that has the option of switching out barrels easily to hunt western game or once I decide to try something more exotic than a 6.5 Creedmoor, and I've landed on Bighorn. Chromoly vs stainless and the pinned lug...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Smokenaces]

TL3 6x47 Laupa

 

[amedeo1227]

So I own both now! LoL

I bought the SAC barrel Vice too.

 

[Mrindecisive]

So I own both now! LoL

I bought the SAC barrel Vice too.

Since you have both how do they compare in regards to feel?

 

[Jackomason]

if all is equal Id buy the TL3, for the sake of the recoil lug alone. I have a origin and honestly, the extra couple hundred bucks is a drop in the bucket when you consider the entire build.

i realize this is an old thread but i think its still worth saying. I do love my origin but id like barrel swaps to be that much easier.

 

[Rant Durden]

Ok so go easy, I just got my Origin (shout out to The Guardian prize/silent bid table) and I thought I could change barrels fairly easily.
What am I missing?

 

[Jackomason]

Ok so go easy, I just got my Origin (shout out to The Guardian prize/silent bid table) and I thought I could change barrels fairly easily.
What am I missing?

you can. but for us lazy folk taking the action out of the chassis/stock is just too much.

having a built in recoil lug keeps the action in the same spot regardless of having a barrel or not. theres always a chance that things will move and screwing a barrel into that mess doesnt instill confidence.

 

[Mrindecisive]

I pulled my action out of my chassis last light it literally took my 2 min the longest part was removing the NVG bridge. i think people are either lazy or scared of messing something up.

 

[Jackomason]

I pulled my action out of my chassis last light it literally took my 2 min the longest part was removing the NVG bridge. i think people are either lazy or scared of messing something up.

yes, but also youre introducing another variable when it comes to a barrels zero. ive still gotta see how repeatable my chassis is. itd be ideal to note each barrels off set if possible.

 

[Mrindecisive]

yes, but also youre introducing another variable when it comes to a barrels zero. ive still gotta see how repeatable my chassis is. itd be ideal to note each barrels off set if possible.

I completely agree but I was thinking the action was only coming out to have a barrel swapped so you’d have to re-zero. But yes when the action comes out you should probably reconfirm your zero.

 

[EN2722]

Takes me like... Two minutes.

I cheated though; switch lug

Cheater!

Kidding, how's it working out? Got any pictures?

 

[archangel485]

you can. but for us lazy folk taking the action out of the chassis/stock is just too much.

I change the barrel on my Origin without taking the action out of the chassis. Why would you have to take it out?

 

[Jackomason]

I change the barrel on my Origin without taking the action out of the chassis. Why would you have to take it out?

I might play with this some, if there is any tension on the recoil lug when the barrel is installed I would assume its going to move when its yanked off. and then to add the tension back onto it just makes me a little nervous. now if that tension is there or not, i dont know..

I guess the proof would be in the return to zero...

 

[archangel485]

I might play with this some, if there is any tension on the recoil lug when the barrel is installed I would assume its going to move when its yanked off. and then to add the tension back onto it just makes me a little nervous. now if that tension is there or not, i dont know..

I guess the proof would be in the return to zero...

I'll have to play with it as well, but it seems to me that if you install the barreled action in the chassis, then remove the barrel, the action isn't going to move forward or back assuming the action screws are torqued, so I don't see how putting a barrel back on would introduce any tension in the lug, it should end up exactly the same spot as it was before. Let me know if you discover some reason this is a bad idea, I haven't done it much but so far haven't noticed an issue.

 

[Jackomason]

I'll have to play with it as well, but it seems to me that if you install the barreled action in the chassis, then remove the barrel, the action isn't going to move forward or back assuming the action screws are torqued, so I don't see how putting a barrel back on would introduce any tension in the lug, it should end up exactly the same spot as it was before. Let me know if you discover some reason this is a bad idea, I haven't done it much but so far haven't noticed an issue.

as of now, Im planning on going out tomorrow after church to test this out... its times like these I wish that I had mounted my vice to 2" tube steel for my hitch receiver.

 

[Jackomason]

well, I made a video but thought id give you a picture so you wouldnt have to wait for editing.

the test was: shoot, change barrels back and forth then shoot. it did shift about .75"+ up.

i changed barrels because in the real world you wouldnt be just unscrewing and reinstalling a barrel (unless thats how you like to clean). Ive always done my barrels at 75ft lbs.

there are three groups in the picture. from left to right

1: this group was from a previous days load development. i forgot to calibrate my scale and threw a light load just to feel things out with this new barrel. of course it shot great....

group 2 & 3 are the test. couldnt recreate the load as i had hoped

so, anybody got a TL3 theyd like to test?

edit: this test only means anything if its a substantial issue to you. you may not care one bit about keeping your zero and shooting 3 more rounds to get it back. so TL3 vs origin is still up to the end user.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Isn't the recoil lug pinned on the Origin? If so, it can't move when you remove a barrel and it also won't twist and have any side load placed on it.

 

[winniedonkey]

Takes me like... Two minutes.

I cheated though; switch lug

How has it been working for you? I have my mind set on a Origin and SL.

 

[Jackomason]

Isn't the recoil lug pinned on the Origin? If so, it can't move when you remove a barrel and it also won't twist and have any side load placed on it.

it has a pin in it. but that is to keep it from rotating. it still comes off easy.



just finished up. Im open to criticism and more ideas.

 

[archangel485]

Somehow I lost track of this thread, appreciate the test and the video. Your experience mirrors mine, point of impact shift but not a huge shift, I've been seeing like 1MOA or less. I actually watched your video on youtube at one point and thought huh, I wonder if that's the same guy that I was talking to on SH, haha.

Anyways, I just so happened to win a TL3 cert at a match, so I've got a TL3 on the way. Problem is 1) there is a lead time, 2) all my current barrels are Origin so I'd have to use the PVA ring and that would nullify the integrated lug idea. So I'd like do a similar test with a TL3, but it will be a very long time before I get to it. Maybe @amedeo1227 or @EN2722 would be willing?

My hypothesis is the torque itself could cause a slight shift. The rotation of the barrel and exactly where it ends up relative to the action face might be different from one installation to the next. Torque wrenches have tolerances so the torque will be a little different, also conditions of the barrel (how much anti-seize is on it, temperature etc) can change the friction which might change exactly where the barrel ends up once torqued. If that is true then POI shifts are possible even with a TL3.

Like you I'd love to see someone with a TL3 repeat your test, if no one ever does, I'll do it eventually but might be a couple years, LOL.