Over annealing?..

[Columboforshort]

Guys, kinda new to annealing here. I’ve been using the ole cordless drill and deep socket and a flame for 6.5 and 6.5 cm I’ve been keeping them under the flame till a full orange is visible which is usually between 10-14 seconds, but also notice the orange flame come off the neck on some of them. Is there an easy way to test to see if I’ve over annealed? Thanks. Also I’ve played around with quenching- not recommended I know so I quit doing it but is there any special attention I need to keep with those?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

All annealing is over annealing..

 

[308pirate]

Guys, kinda new to annealing here. I’ve been using the ole cordless drill and deep socket and a flame for 6.5 and 6.5 cm I’ve been keeping them under the flame till a full orange is visible but also notice the orange flame come off the neck on some of them. Is there an easy way to test to see if I’ve over annealed? Thanks. Also I’ve played around with quenching- not recommended I know so I quit doing it but is there any special attention I need to keep with those?

Deformation and Annealing of Cartridge Brass

Copper and its alloys are among the most malleable metals and alloys in existence. Cartridge brass, Cu – 30% Zn, has been used for many years to produce cartridge cases for ammunition due to its superior cold forming characteristics. This article shows the microstructure and hardness of...

vacaero.com

There is no such thing as over annealed.

What you might do is anneal too far down the case as heat transfers down from the neck to the base. Which means your cases are junk now.

 

[John Glidewell]

Try using the search function. Lots of videos and threads on this already. And when you post something like this, it is helpful to post pictures of the cases after annealing so we can see the color shift on the case.

Brass Annealing Guide

www.snipershide.com

 

[Columboforshort]

Deformation and Annealing of Cartridge Brass

Copper and its alloys are among the most malleable metals and alloys in existence. Cartridge brass, Cu – 30% Zn, has been used for many years to produce cartridge cases for ammunition due to its superior cold forming characteristics. This article shows the microstructure and hardness of...

vacaero.com

There is no such thing as over annealed.

What you might do is anneal too far down the case as heat transfers down from the neck to the base. Which means your cases are junk now.

Ooohhhh I see, yeah I heard a tragic story of a guy who put his brass in a 600 degree oven for 1 hour and ended up injured. I’m not doing anything like that it’s strictly neck and little shoulder. Thanks!

 

[hafejd30]

Best way is use tempilaq. Inside the neck and down the case to make sure you’re not transferring heat to the case head. Obviously where the flame contacts the tempilaq won’t be accurate

Or just buy an Amp and problem solved

Just fyi not all brands of casings look the same when annealed the same. My Lapua have a much less distinct annealing “look” to the neck and shoulder than my Nosler do

 

[Columboforshort]

Try using the search function. Lots of videos and threads on this already. And when you post something like this, it is helpful to post pictures of the cases after annealing so we can see the color shift on the case.

Brass Annealing Guide

www.snipershide.com

Gotcha, will do next time. I’ve searched and can’t get a solid answer on the matter. Just want to anneal for shoulder bumps really. Thanks friend.

 

[308pirate]

Ooohhhh I see, yeah I heard a tragic story of a guy who put his brass in a 600 degree oven for 1 hour and ended up injured. I’m not doing anything like that it’s strictly neck and little shoulder. Thanks!

How do you control the temperature your brass hits?

 

[Columboforshort]

Best way is use tempilaq. Inside the neck and down the case to make sure you’re not transferring heat to the case head. Obviously where the flame contacts the tempilaq won’t be accurate

Or just buy an Amp and problem solved

Just fyi not all brands of casings look the same when annealed the same. My Lapua have a much less distinct annealing “look” to the neck and shoulder than my Nosler do

Lmaooo! I know right?! Maybe I should pick $1500 off my money tree in my back yard and buy and amp! thanks my man.

 

[straightshooter1]

Guys, kinda new to annealing here. I’ve been using the ole cordless drill and deep socket and a flame for 6.5 and 6.5 cm I’ve been keeping them under the flame till a full orange is visible but also notice the orange flame come off the neck on some of them. Is there an easy way to test to see if I’ve over annealed? Thanks. Also I’ve played around with quenching- not recommended I know so I quit doing it but is there any special attention I need to keep with those?

What you describe as "full orange is visible" suggests you're seeing that in a full lighted room??? If so, then you're probably getting those cases too annealed. If it's a matter of the "full orange" being visible for a split second in a darkened room, then you're probably just fine.

A fully annealed (or "over annealed" if you prefer to think of it that way) brass will be so soft that there's no spring back. You can seat a projectile and the neck will not hold it tightly and probably be able to just push the projectile in and out just with your hand. If the neck can hold the projectile firmly enough, it'll be alright. Whatever the interference might be from one's annealing, whatever the level of anneal that's accomplished, what you want is consistency, which is really what we're after.

Proper annealing is a function of temperature and time. If it takes a long time to heat up the neck and shoulder, a lot of heat can move down the body towards the web and could weaken the body, which is not what you want. In the case of taking a relatively long time to do the annealing, water quenching can stop this heat + time process along the body. But, this is seldom an issue for annealing brass as the time taken to do the annealing is short enough and the brass cools off fast enough on it own once out of the flame that quenching serves no purpose.

 

[Columboforshort]

Deformation and Annealing of Cartridge Brass

Copper and its alloys are among the most malleable metals and alloys in existence. Cartridge brass, Cu – 30% Zn, has been used for many years to produce cartridge cases for ammunition due to its superior cold forming characteristics. This article shows the microstructure and hardness of...

vacaero.com

There is no such thing as over annealed.

What you might do is anneal too far down the case as heat transfers down from the neck to the base. Which means your cases are junk now.

Gotcha I don’t go that far down, strictly neck and a tiny bit of shoulder for bump

 

[Columboforshort]

What you describe as "full orange is visible" suggests you're seeing that in a full lighted room??? If so, then you're probably getting those cases too annealed. If it's a matter of the "full orange" being visible for a split second in a darkened room, then you're probably just fine.

A fully annealed (or "over annealed" if you prefer to think of it that way) brass will be so soft that there's no spring back. You can seat a projectile and the neck will not hold it tightly and probably be able to just push the projectile in and out just with your hand. If the neck can hold the projectile firmly enough, it'll be alright. Whatever the interference might be from one's annealing, whatever the level of anneal that's accomplished, what you want is consistency, which is really what we're after.

Proper annealing is a function of temperature and time. If it takes a long time to heat up the neck and shoulder, a lot of heat can move down the body towards the web and could weaken the body, which is not what you want. In the case of taking a relatively long time to do the annealing, water quenching can stop this heat + time process along the body. But, this is seldom an issue for annealing brass as the time taken to do the annealing is short enough and the brass cools off fast enough on it own once out of the flame that quenching serves no purpose.

This was super helpful thank you.

 

[cas6969]

Just fyi not all brands of casings look the same when annealed the same. My Lapua have a much less distinct annealing “look” to the neck and shoulder than my Nosler do

I learned this friday night when my new bottle of tempilaq showed up. I've started playing with induction, I learned I'd been doing it a smidge longer (.60 seconds or so) longer than needed to get to 750, all while thinking I hadn't been doing it enough. (going by color and trying to get info from infrared thermometers, that didn't work well for a few reasons). When I cut the time down to just turning the tempilaq, there was very little if any visible change in the brass from before and after.

 

[straightshooter1]

I learned this friday night when my new bottle of tempilaq showed up. I've started playing with induction, I learned I'd been doing it a smidge longer (.60 seconds or so) longer than needed to get to 750, all while thinking I hadn't been doing it enough. (going by color and trying to get info from infrared thermometers, that didn't work well for a few reasons). When I cut the time down to just turning the tempilaq, there was very little if any visible change in the brass from before and after.

Yup, the amount or type of color change has nothing to what's actually going on with the metal's structure. And things like the flame color change having to do with the zinc being burned out of the brass is also false as that doesn't start happening until the brass is in a liquid state (~1700°F). What we see as color changes is due to the burning of the residue on the surface of the brass, like left over lube, cleaning solutions, gun powder residue, or oils from your hands, etc.

 

[supercorndogs]

What you describe as "full orange is visible" suggests you're seeing that in a full lighted room??? If so, then you're probably getting those cases too annealed. If it's a matter of the "full orange" being visible for a split second in a darkened room, then you're probably just fine.

A fully annealed (or "over annealed" if you prefer to think of it that way) brass will be so soft that there's no spring back. You can seat a projectile and the neck will not hold it tightly and probably be able to just push the projectile in and out just with your hand. If the neck can hold the projectile firmly enough, it'll be alright. Whatever the interference might be from one's annealing, whatever the level of anneal that's accomplished, what you want is consistency, which is really what we're after.

Proper annealing is a function of temperature and time. If it takes a long time to heat up the neck and shoulder, a lot of heat can move down the body towards the web and could weaken the body, which is not what you want. In the case of taking a relatively long time to do the annealing, water quenching can stop this heat + time process along the body. But, this is seldom an issue for annealing brass as the time taken to do the annealing is short enough and the brass cools off fast enough on it own once out of the flame that quenching serves no purpose.

Great post.

 

[ACard]

And here we go again...

 

[Columboforshort]

Yup, the amount or type of color change has nothing to what's actually going on with the metal's structure. And things like the flame color change having to do with the zinc being burned out of the brass is also false as that doesn't start happening until the brass is in a liquid state (~1700°F). What we see as color changes is due to the burning of the residue on the surface of the brass, like left over lube, cleaning solutions, gun powder residue, or oils from your hands, etc.

Oh nice ok! Thank you!

 

[Columboforshort]

I learned this friday night when my new bottle of tempilaq showed up. I've started playing with induction, I learned I'd been doing it a smidge longer (.60 seconds or so) longer than needed to get to 750, all while thinking I hadn't been doing it enough. (going by color and trying to get info from infrared thermometers, that didn't work well for a few reasons). When I cut the time down to just turning the tempilaq, there was very little if any visible change in the brass from before and after.

So the tempilaq is the way to go huh? I’ve heard mixed reviews

 

[spife7980]

So the tempilaq is the way to go huh? I’ve heard mixed reviews

Yes. If you are flame annealing stick some inside the neck of a case to see when it goes from a dry green crusty powder to a clear/black liquid. When it transitions form you know you have hit temp.
Some 0000 steel wool on a dowel will clean the cooked tempilaq off the neck.

You dont need an amp, but a machine with a digital timer makes it much more repeatable with less tedium. Elfster has a make your own guide on youtube or there are the machines like annealeeze for not a whole lot of money.

Is amp the best? Yes. Does an amp guarantee you still wont get your ass kicked by a hillbilly doing exactly what you are now? No.

 

[cas6969]

So the tempilaq is the way to go huh? I’ve heard mixed reviews

An educated guess is better than a wild guess, I guess?

 

[Columboforshort]

awesome, this was helpful thanks man. Well I am from Alabama so if the shoe fits right?! but I did happen to pick up a bench source automatic annealer today. Just trying to get this annealing thing down! Thanks again, I’ll have to get some of the tempilaq!

 

[Columboforshort]

An educated guess is better than a wild guess, I guess?

 

[supercorndogs]