Sidearms & Scatterguns Over Under Shotgun

[roostercogburn98]

Looking for advice as I do internet research. Not many threads on here that I could find, but I did read the ones I found.

I have a few shotguns, none that I really like shooting clays with (except my youngest’s 410), and want an over/under to fill that nitch. I have a bolt action and a pump Win97 that has been converted to a trench gun. Neither do it for that purpose. I have an over/under in 12 gauge, but it is a super cheap no choke gun left to me by my wife’s grandfather. I want a new O/U in 20 gauge that will be reliable. I’m looking to spend about a grand, used is ok as well. I don’t want a dedicated trap/skeet gun, so the uber pretty ones need not apply. This gun will see use in hunting applications as well. I like the O\U setup and look so that is the only style I’m interested in. Tell me what you think is a good choice

edit: I have seen quite a few CZ variants. They make decent rifles, but I have never used their shotguns. Any users here have experience?

 

[Baron23]

Looking for advice as I do internet research. Not many threads on here that I could find, but I did read the ones I found.

I have a few shotguns, none that I really like shooting clays with (except my youngest’s 410), and want an over/under to fill that nitch. I have a bolt action and a pump Win97 that has been converted to a trench gun. Neither do it for that purpose. I have an over/under in 12 gauge, but it is a super cheap no choke gun left to me by my wife’s grandfather. I want a new O/U in 20 gauge that will be reliable. I’m looking to spend about a grand, used is ok as well. I don’t want a dedicated trap/skeet gun, so the uber pretty ones need not apply. This gun will see use in hunting applications as well. I like the O\U setup and look so that is the only style I’m interested in. Tell me what you think is a good choice

edit: I have seen quite a few CZ variants. They make decent rifles, but I have never used their shotguns. Any users here have experience?

$1k won't get you much in terms of quality and reliability in an OU, the prices of which have risen considerably.

My personal recommendation would be to look for a used Beretta 68x action shotgun (all of the actions are identical on 68x) with...and this is just me, 2nd place going to a used Browning Citori type gun.

20 gauges are going to be harder to find used than 12 ga. I have a Beretta 682 Gold two barrel set as I like shooting 20 ga on a large frame gun. I had one I bought new 25 years ago and sold to buy a Kolar, cause I'm an idiot. I found the two barrel set used and jumped on it and will never sell it...I don't think. haha

Just one guys view.

 

[flyfisher117]

$1k won't get you much in terms of quality and reliability in an OU, the prices of which have risen considerably.

My personal recommendation would be to look for a used Beretta 68x action shotgun (all of the actions are identical on 68x) with...and this is just me, 2nd place going to a used Browning Citori type gun.

20 gauges are going to be harder to find used than 12 ga. I have a Beretta 682 Gold two barrel set as I like shooting 20 ga on a large frame gun. I had one I bought new 25 years ago and sold to buy a Kolar, cause I'm an idiot. I found the two barrel set used and jumped on it and will never sell it...I don't think. haha

Just one guys view.

I agree. There's a few cheap O/Us that seem to have their cult followings but I'd still rather jump into the Browning or Beretta world for the longevity alone.

I ultimately went with the 686 Onyx Pro Trap after doing a lot of talking and shooting of various guns that guys would loan out.

 

[LR308guy]

OP, I would look for a used Charles Daly over and under in 20 gauge, some were made by Miroku in Japan. Miroku made shotguns for Browning and Winchester(I think, I might be wrong on Winchester, somebody will correct me if I am wrong; I know somebody made some for Winchester in Japan); also, the quality are good to very good. The price is in your budget range. I have one in 20 gauge, I have had it for 48 years, it has been shot ALOT, but it still is good and tight. It kills birds like MAGIC. mine has 28" barrels, full and improved modified chokes. This gun was built before choke tubes.
An SKB might be close to your budget, but I have not seen many for sale lately.
You could also find a good used Browning or Beretta, but it might be hard to find a good one in your budget.

 

[BullGear]

If you can find on old Remington 3200, they usually are well made and shoot where you point them. I could be bias, cause I own one and love it.

 

[LR308guy]

EDIT - just an after thought, look for a local trap and skeet club, and go there to see if anybody has a used one for sale.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Thanks all for the replies so far. Maybe I should clarify “shooting clays”, which I mean on my home range with my youngest. We might shoot a box of clays every few months, not hitting the range every week if multiple times a week shooting hundreds of shells. And maybe twice a year in the woods or fields. I know the models all listed above will last a lifetime, but that’s more gun than I want to talk into the swamp here in NC. AlmOt every used browning or beretta I have looked at cosmetically looks like it never got used. I will be going to a few shops tomorrow to fondle whatever they have in stock to get a feel for some. Thanks so far for the replies and will do some more digging on mentioned models as well.

 

[roostercogburn98]

So jumping back into this. I did some digging and looking, and there is a browning that has caught my eye. Has anyone had any experience with the Citori White Satin series?

 

[SoVa]

I have been looking for a twelve gauge in the same ballpark price range. I have settled on a franchi instinct SL. They are owned by beretta and made in Italy, I have handled a couple 20 gauge models and they feel great, I’m just looking for a 12. These run about 1300-1400

 

[roostercogburn98]

I have been looking for a twelve gauge in the same ballpark price range. I have settled on a franchi instinct SL. They are owned by beretta and made in Italy, I have handled a couple 20 gauge models and they feel great, I’m just looking for a 12. These run about 1300-1400

I read a few reviews with Franchi trigger/safety issues I thought somewhere. Have you seen those. I have also looked at the CZ Redhead Premier All Terrain series. Neat modern finish look on an old style gun. I know Browning does some finish some on some as well which I’ve seen, but not on an over under unless I missed it.

 

[458win]

Find a used browning superposed. May have to settle for a 12 though for the $1000. When it comes to doubles if you are not willing to spend the money for a good one then usually it leads to disappointment.

 

[diggler1833]

The Browning Citori and Beretta 686 are some of the most popular O/U for a couple reasons. They are made well enough that they won't come apart with use, aren't prohibitively expensive, and they somehow manage to fit 90 percent of the shooters pretty decently.

My dad did have a Charles Daly that was made by Miroku, and it was a pretty decent shotgun except for one issue. I have some experience with it, but my brother ended up inheriting it. If my memory serves correctly, that gun doubled up a handful of times. The fit/finish were certainly good for its price point.

Dad also had a Citori Lightning in 20ga that I grew up shooting a lot as a kid. I loved that shotgun, but unfortunately my brother inherited that one too.

 

[roostercogburn98]

so then another question on preference, seems browning and older miroku guns are preferred over Turkey made guns(although most are made with the same 4140 Italian steel, but that’s another topic.)

Triggers, does the majority here prefer an inertia or mechanical style trigger. I personally think the mechanical would be better in a field gun in the case of a hang fire on whatever tube you choose to go bang first( barrel selection capability is another subject as well.) While we are on triggers, I don’t care for a double trigger, my old 12g has this and I just can’t seem to get used to it. I prefer a single.

 

[SoVa]

I did see one trigger issue come up in the reviews of the Franchi that I read but I was also able to find more reviews in general and more people that had Franchis (larger sample size) than I was of other shotguns in this price range. I would rather take my chances with a gun in this price range coming from an Italian company. I used to have a beretta 686 and it was awesome, I just don’t plan to shoot enough to justify getting another on these days.
While I was looking another gun that comes from Turkey and really caught my eye was the Mossberg Black label sporting gun, it has a lot of nice features but I couldn’t find one to see in person and couldn’t find much info on it at all.

 

[skl1]

You can find older pre-686 Beretta O/U's for $400 (BL-4's) if you look hard. These were great guns. They can be worn out though (trunnions is what you worry about on those as they're not easily fixed IIRC). The Turkish guns keep getting better, but I'd still cheat towards Browning Citori's or Beretta 68x or previous versions of same. The Miroku-made Charles Daly's suggestion was a great idea.

On triggers, I want reliable. So I'd just go with the host model's reliability reputation. There are good models of both and bad models/designs of both. Mechanical triggers should theoretically allow a second shot even with a dud in the first chamber. But they're also more prone to doubling. Many of today's designs are also hybrid designs of mechanical triggers with inertia blocks.

HTH

 

[roostercogburn98]

I did see one trigger issue come up in the reviews of the Franchi that I read but I was also able to find more reviews in general and more people that had Franchis (larger sample size) than I was of other shotguns in this price range. I would rather take my chances with a gun in this price range coming from an Italian company. I used to have a beretta 686 and it was awesome, I just don’t plan to shoot enough to justify getting another on these days.
While I was looking another gun that comes from Turkey and really caught my eye was the Mossberg Black label sporting gun, it has a lot of nice features but I couldn’t find one to see in person and couldn’t find much info on it at all.

I have noticed that in reference to reviews as well. There are a lot that don’t have many reviews on them. I’ve been ways lot of European YouTube channels for some reviews as well. They seem to have the shotgun world figured out pretty well due to gun control.

 

[Dendro]

I’ve got an older Citori in 20 gauge that is perfect for South Carolina quail & dove hunts, it’s short and light and swings easy. We shot opening day last Saturday and a bud of mine had a Stoeger OU he picked up from Bass Pro for $399 and it was pretty darn nice for the $. You’re welcome to come down and handle/shoot mine anytime, if I remember correctly you’re not that far from me.

 

[roostercogburn98]

You can find older pre-686 Beretta O/U's for $400 (BL-4's) if you look hard. These were great guns. They can be worn out though (trunnions is what you worry about on those as they're not easily fixed IIRC). The Turkish guns keep getting better, but I'd still cheat towards Browning Citori's or Beretta 68x or previous versions of same. The Miroku-made Charles Daly's suggestion was a great idea.

On triggers, I want reliable. So I'd just go with the host model's reliability reputation. There are good models of both and bad models/designs of both. Mechanical triggers should theoretically allow a second shot even with a dud in the first chamber. But they're also more prone to doubling. Many of today's designs are also hybrid designs of mechanical triggers with inertia blocks.

HTH

The main reason I brought it up. MOST manufacturers that I have seen or held in the past week have mechanical triggers. There are one or two models of some manufacturers that went with inertia triggers. Do you think it is a cost savings or another reason to not just be universal across the lines? I guess there are some that prefer an inertia style so they continue to make them to keep customer bases.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I’ve got an older Citori in 20 gauge that is perfect for South Carolina quail & dove hunts, it’s short and light and swings easy. We shot opening day last Saturday and a bud of mine had a Stoeger OU he picked up from Bass Pro for $399 and it was pretty darn nice for the $. You’re welcome to come down and handle/shoot mine anytime, if I remember correctly you’re not that far from me.

Your correct good sir, I’m not that far from you. I appreciate the offer and maybe one day take you up on it. I played with a Citori white satin in 20 gauge the other day and I’m almost convinced to go buy it. The ammo shot great, thanks again.

 

[skl1]

The main reason I brought it up. MOST manufacturers that I have seen or held in the past week have mechanical triggers. There are one or two models of some manufacturers that went with inertia triggers. Do you think it is a cost savings or another reason to not just be universal across the lines? I guess there are some that prefer an inertia style so they continue to make them to keep customer bases.

This is my guess: the inertia triggers were put on higher end guns initially to prevent inadvertently doubling, while allowing for less sear engagement/a better trigger. Nowadays top target guns like Kriefhoff are mechanical, and they're expensive, well-checked before shipping, well-designed and have greawt triggers but don't double. But in the mid tier (sub $12K) and low tier O/U guns, they're still seen as a desirable feature to prevent doubling.

 

[Dendro]

This is my guess: the inertia triggers were put on higher end guns initially to prevent inadvertently doubling, while allowing for less sear engagement/a better trigger. Nowadays top target guns like Kriefhoff are mechanical, and they're expensive, well-checked before shipping, well-designed and have greawt triggers but don't double. But in the mid tier (sub $12K) and low tier O/U guns, they're still seen as a desirable feature to prevent doubling.

How would I be able to tell which trigger is in my shotgun? Thanks

 

[skl1]

Dendro, open/cock the gun and pull the trigger on an empty chamber/snap cap/fired shell for whichever barrel fires first. Then try to pull the trigger again. If the second barrel "fires", or you hear the snap on a second empty chamber, then you have a mechanical trigger. If you can't pull the trigger again (it hasn't reset) slap the butt of the gun fairly hard (or if it's empty bounce the recoil pad on a hard surface). This should reset the trigger and you should be able to "fire" the second barrel if you have an inertia trigger.

 

[LR308guy]

OP, as far as Turkish guns go, I have two Tri Stars, one in a .410 over and under, I got it in a trade(Worth about $500), I gave it to my Grandson who was 12 years old. It has been shot around 1,000 times, I know this by him bring his empties shotgun shell hulls back for me to reload, one case at a time. So far it has been a good gun, he hits fairly good with it. It has choke tubes, and it fits him well enough. But he has hit a growing spurt so I might have to find him something else to shoot or add some stock length to the gun.
The second one I bought at an estate sale for $450. It is a little 20 gauge O/U with 26" barrels, it has 6 different choke tubes, Me and my dad used it as a backup skeet gun, in case some bodies else gun broke during a weekend shoot. We could loan it out so they could keep shooting a match or tournament. Every now and then we would shoot it just to make somebody mad, the little Turkish gun that cost $450 would smoke the clays just as good as a Kolar. It was just a quick and fast handling gun that just seemed to fit and shoot good enough to make everything go click. I don't know how good the little gun would hold up to the regular pounding of tournament every weekend, but it seemed to be ok so far with around 10-12K rounds shot thru it so far, it is not hurt or loose fitting, it seems like it is just getting broken in, it opens up a little easier now, I use to have to put the barrels behind my off leg to make it open and cock the sears. But it is only a $450 gun, so it works, that what matters, if it breaks next time out, I will just have it fixed and consider it GTG again. BTW, quail don't stand a chance, skeet choke, and modified choke, if you are quick enough you can get two birds on the cross with a skeet choke and the third bird with a modified barrel, it works the retrievers hard with two or three hunters.

 

[roostercogburn98]

@LR308guy

my neighbors son has a Trista semi auto, he took it out the other day and smoked 8 birds I believe. I believe you when you say they’ll kill. My daughter has. Trista semi auto .410, and she can murder clays with it. I didn’t have expectations of the gun lasting a lifetime when I bought it for her. I do however believe she might enjoy shooting long enough that she will grow out of the 410, so part of my quest is to maybe snag a gun she will be happy with and like to shoot. 20 seems to be the next logical gauge, plus ammo is still findable compared to 410 right now. I just might end up with a couple of new over unders and see which one I care for the best and part ways or hand it down to my youngest daughter.

 

[LR308guy]

Well, I don't know about ever out growing a .410. My dad was well known for the last four or five years of shooting competitive skeet using a .410 only. It was the only thing he would shoot all weekend, against 12, 20, and 28 gauge rounds. He had a bad back, and hips so any recoil would hurt him badly. So he would just shoot his 1/2 oz skeet loads all weekend. When "Mr. .410" showed up ever body else knew they would be trying for second place. He could kill 400 straight without a miss.

So as long as the gun fits, you can hit and kill with a .410, not ducks or geese far or high, but a moderate ranges it is still a potent round.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Well, I don't know about ever out growing a .410. My dad was well known for the last four or five years of shooting competitive skeet using a .410 only. It was the only thing he would shoot all weekend, against 12, 20, and 28 gauge rounds. He had a bad back, and hips so any recoil would hurt him badly. So he would just shoot his 1/2 oz skeet loads all weekend. When "Mr. .410" showed up ever body else knew they would be trying for second place. He could kill 400 straight without a miss.

So as long as the gun fits, you can hit and kill with a .410, not ducks or geese far or high, but a moderate ranges it is still a potent round.

More of a size thing really. I’ll shoot it all day and I love 410. Actually one of the main requirements for my new O/U is 20 gauge. I’ve had two reconstructions on my right shoulder and I can shoot a 12, I just don’t like too. My bolt action 20 is my go to, it’s just not very speedy.

 

[LR308guy]

I can understand the recoil thing. The older I get the more I hate recoil. That is why I shoot a lot of 20 gauge reloads, I make them up with 3/4 or 7/8 oz of shot, if I don't kill it, it is not because of too small of a shot pattern or it flew thru holes in the pattern. It is because I didn't do my part and shoot straight. Plus, I have found the patterns to be just as good or if not better than heavier loads, less flyers, better density. As another benefit with shot prices today, the less shot per shell equal more shells I am able to reload.

If I shoot 12 guage, it is with a 15/16 oz load, claybuster wad it is a Winchester Super Lite copy, with Clays powder, at 1235 FPS average. That is my do all load. That is a soft shooting load, kills clay targets like crazy. Plus Dove or Quail if I am carrying a 12 gauge that day, but only if a am hunting close to the house or riding a four wheeler that day. I hate to carry that heavy gun all day chasing birds.

Good luck in finding a good 20 gauge for your and your family needs, happy hunting, and make sure the kids have fun and be safe.

LR308Guy

 

[paulrem308]

Interested as well. Got the itch for an over under. Just can't justify 1500 for a gun won't shoot that much.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Interested as well. Got the itch for an over under. Just can't justify 1500 for a gun won't shoot that much.

Well I ordered a CZ Redhead Premier “All Terrain” that should be here this week. I am working a maybe trade for a Browning Citori as well. Figured if I could snag both and see which one I like the best, I’d give them a shot. The CZ is not the bottom end model they offer so we will see how it comes to me. I know it’s a Turkey made gun and seems a lot of people don’t give them any love at all. Hopefully it will be here in good enough weather to put on a makeshift pattern board and see what kind of POI it has.

 

[308pirate]

It's amazing how some of you can over think the ever living fuck out of something so simple.

Inertia vs mechanical triggers...who cares. Perazzis come with inertia triggers. So do almost all Berettas including the DT-11 IIRC.

My 686 has never missed a beat in 31,000 rounds. It has an inertia trigger.

Worry more about how a shotgun fits you than what kind of trigger is in it. That's what really matters.

 

[roostercogburn98]

It's amazing how some of you can over think the ever living fuck out of something so simple.

Inertia vs mechanical triggers...who cares. Perazzis come with inertia triggers. So do almost all Berettas including the DT-11 IIRC.

My 686 has never missed a beat in 31,000 rounds. It has an inertia trigger.

Worry more about how a shotgun fits you than what kind of trigger is in it. That's what really matters.

Not worried, just curious is all. Man still has the right to be curious don’t he?

 

[houndog]

It's amazing how some of you can over think the ever living fuck out of something so simple.

Inertia vs mechanical triggers...who cares. Perazzis come with inertia triggers. So do almost all Berettas including the DT-11 IIRC.

My 686 has never missed a beat in 31,000 rounds. It has an inertia trigger.

Worry more about how a shotgun fits you than what kind of trigger is in it. That's what really matters.

 

[308pirate]

Well I ordered a CZ Redhead Premier “All Terrain” that should be here this week. I am working a maybe trade for a Browning Citori as well. Figured if I could snag both and see which one I like the best, I’d give them a shot. The CZ is not the bottom end model they offer so we will see how it comes to me. I know it’s a Turkey made gun and seems a lot of people don’t give them any love at all. Hopefully it will be here in good enough weather to put on a makeshift pattern board and see what kind of POI it has.

In all honesty, Turkey has excellent gunmakers and shit-for-brains gunmakers. Just like the United States and all other countries that manufacture firearms.

 

[danatkins]

Dad and I used to shoot a citori lightning sporting clays that he put an adjustable stock on. I could go 22-24 out of 25 with the original stock still could get 20/25 with the new stock. Wish I had the money my brother got that one and there's one like at cabelas in ft worth if I had the money

 

[roostercogburn98]

Dad and I used to shoot a citori lightning sporting clays that he put an adjustable stock on. I could go 22-24 out of 25 with the original stock still could get 20/25 with the new stock. Wish I had the money my brother got that one and there's one like at cabelas in ft worth if I had the money

Nice guns, maybe a little to nice for what I want to use it for. Hadn’t thought about cabelas, if they still have a gun library?

 

[Ric O'shay]

I think you will like the CZ, for the price it is really a nice solid choice.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I think you will like the CZ, for the price it is really a nice solid choice.

I held the Drake model in the same gun I want. It has some features I liked and felt good. I like the ventless midrib feature and the OD green cerakote is kinda neat on that style of gun. Your so used to seeing them shiney and pretty. This one just said field gun to me. The Citor Hunter series is pretty close but had a ventless midrib and internal chokes. Carlsons carries a decent selection of extended chokes as well. I think it will fit quite well also

 

[308pirate]

I held the Drake model in the same gun I want. It has some features I liked and felt good. I like the ventless midrib feature and the OD green cerakote is kinda neat on that style of gun. Your so used to seeing them shiney and pretty. This one just said field gun to me. The Citor Hunter series is pretty close but had a ventless midrib and internal chokes. Carlsons carries a decent selection of extended chokes as well. I think it will fit quite well also

For over 130 years field gun meant oiled walnut and blued steel

 

[roostercogburn98]

For over 130 years field gun meant oiled walnut and blued steel

I agree with you and that statement. I just think the cerakote is a better option for a true field gun and metal protection. Maybe time will prove me wrong, but it’s different and I like that finish.

 

[FisherT&C]

Looking for advice as I do internet research. Not many threads on here that I could find, but I did read the ones I found."

You can get a Stevens 555 for around 700ish, they're made in Turkey I believe. If it's for casual sporting clays etc, it should be fine.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Picked up a CZ Redhead Premier All Terrain model. Hoping it would show up this week but not yet.

 

[FisherT&C]

Picked up a CZ Redhead Premier All Terrain model. Hoping it would show up this week but not yet.

CZ isn't bad at all. The only thing I ever really did to them for customers was fit the stock and maybe once in awhile lengthen the forcing cone to improve pattern density.

 

[roostercogburn98]

CZ isn't bad at all. The only thing I ever really did to them for customers was fit the stock and maybe once in awhile lengthen the forcing cone to improve pattern density.

I like my other CZ products I own/owned. This will be my first shotgun from them, and my only real concern is wood to metal fit. I got the all terrain due to it being cerakoted so metal finish isn’t a rope priority for me anyway. I’m sure it will function as all the other CZ products I’ve handled did. For the little use it will see, I’m sure it will serve me well.

 

[tomcatmv]

I had a Weatherby Athena that was a beautiful gun. Just didn't fit me right, ended up selling it to a friend who loves it. Fit and finish was top notch.

 

[FisherT&C]

I had a Weatherby Athena that was a beautiful gun. Just didn't fit me right, ended up selling it to a friend who loves it. Fit and finish was top notch.

Yeah, that's a good one. I soldered a rib back on one years ago, I was impressed with it. We have an active skeet/trap community here where I'm at in MT. All this shotgun talk is making me want to get out there and bust some clays!

 

[roostercogburn98]

I’m still looking at Brownings as well. I may end up with one of them as well to play with both. I am eyeballing the Citori Hunter or in the White Satin series. I looked at the CXS Micro, but it is pretty small compared to the others and didn’t think it would fit me good

 

[houndog]

So why not get a standard sized CXS? Since you aren't looking primarily for a trap gun I'd get the CXS - i.e. CXSporting vs. the CXT - CXTrap.

I don't hunt, so my shooting is exclusively trap and the CXT is a great gun.

 

[roostercogburn98]

So why not get a standard sized CXS? Since you aren't looking primarily for a trap gun I'd get the CXS - i.e. CXSporting vs. the CXT - CXTrap.

I don't hunt, so my shooting is exclusively trap and the CXT is a great gun.

I have looked at those as well. I forgot to mention the standard CXT. I have not got my hands on one as of yet though.

 

[houndog]

So, the sporting and the trap versions will have different stocks and probably different POI. Trap guns are generally set up for 60/40 or 70/30 shooting because the birds are rising when you shoot them and you want to keep the bead/barrel under the target. Sporting guns tend to be flatter shooting - i.e. 50/50.

 

[roostercogburn98]

For those interested, the CZ showed up and in my hands. Overall it looks good to me. Fit and finish are what you expect to get with a 1k over/under. Nice shallow hand engraved cerakoted metal. Wood is laser cut, but looks nice. Will get it cleaned, lubed and ready to shoot this week hopefully.