Glad you got one. Now go out and shoot a couple hundred dollars worth of shells. My son is talking about going out and shooting some sporting clays this weekend. I may have to join him.
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Sidearms & Scatterguns Over Under Shotgun
- Thread starter roostercogburn98
- Start date
Congratulations. Now you just have to find shells. If you're like me, you will soon be on a first name basis with everyone that works behind the ammo counter at Walmart.
I have had an old Baikal IZH-27 28" engraved O/U for about 20 years now. Great gun. Being Russian, I bet the value just went up after the ban. 
Congratulations. Now you just have to find shells. If you're like me, you will soon be on a first name basis with everyone that works behind the ammo counter at Walmart.
Keep reloading Ammoseek throughout the day. There are still some deals.
I learned that I shoot everything better with a 60/40 split and set up my sporting clays gun that way using an adjustable comb
Winchester 101's made in Japan were manufactured by Olin Kodensha Co. LTD
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I have 700 20 gauge shells and picked up 50 more yesterday in a leisure walk through a local store. My problem is finding 410 for my youngest daughters gun so she can shoot it. Im always on the quest for more and will stop at a few stores today!Congratulations. Now you just have to find shells. If you're like me, you will soon be on a first name basis with everyone that works behind the ammo counter at Walmart.
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Got two boxes of clays and a some shells laid out to test it out. Won’t be this weekend, the youngest has a horse show Saturday. She would kill me if i shot without her.
Mid-tier = under $12,000?
A $11,000 shot-effing-gun is mid-tier?
Are you an advisor to some Sultan? Lol
If we eliminate engraving and other embellishments (which are nice, don’t get me wrong here), why do shotguns have a different price structure than rifles, exactly? They “seem” like simpler devices than rifles, but I suppose looks can be deceiving.
On the other hand, we have Velben goods like wine. Cheap wine tends to outrank $$$$ wine in double-blind taste tests, but as a wine’s price increases, demand tends to increase due to status issues.
Can one of you more knowledgeable dudes enlighten me here?
A good over/under shotgun doesn't need to break the bank, as I stated earlier in this thread I had a Weatherby Athena that was beautiful, well made piece that was under $1,500 if memory serves me right but that was at least 18-20 years ago.
Best advice is to find a good gun (Weatherby, Browning even some of the Turk, Spanish and Russian are very serviceable). The most important thing is to find a good shotgun fitter. Stock camber, cast, drop, length of pull are all very important.
Put your real money there.
Best advice is to find a good gun (Weatherby, Browning even some of the Turk, Spanish and Russian are very serviceable). The most important thing is to find a good shotgun fitter. Stock camber, cast, drop, length of pull are all very important.
Put your real money there.
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His tier levels are geared more towards professional trap/skeet shooters and real shotgun collectors I believe. There is no way in hell I would take one of those guns in the swamp behind my house and shoot tree rats or bugs bunny with one.
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Couldn’t agree more. For no more action than this thing will see, 1k is plenty. I’ll run this one until it falls apart or I get tired of looking at it in the safe.
I get it for beautiful works-of-art-type guns. But for functional things for pro shooters? An AI is $5-9k and Blaser-like rifles are around that too.
Unless there is something fiendishly difficult to engineer with an O/U shotgun, I don’t get it unless the before-mentioned Velben goods come into play. I guess high-end shotgun world culture does seem to veer towards the polo end of the spectrum.
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@carbonbased
I think the astronomical price has to do with the tedious work of hand fitting the wood to the metal, as well as the master engravers doing art work. I do believe they are all hand built as far as wood in regards to shaping and forming, along with the high grade/quality of wood. They are works of art for sure, but not in my interest for that kind of cash for sure
I think the astronomical price has to do with the tedious work of hand fitting the wood to the metal, as well as the master engravers doing art work. I do believe they are all hand built as far as wood in regards to shaping and forming, along with the high grade/quality of wood. They are works of art for sure, but not in my interest for that kind of cash for sure
Ah, perfect, discussion within my area of expertise!
Basically, there are things that matter for double-barrel shotgun performance:
Quick digression - nominal size is how big something is supposed to be. Tolerance is how much that size can vary - cut tolerances in half and increase cost for that machining operation by a factor of 10. Variance is how much the size actually does vary, and for the design to work needs to be within tolerance. Clearances (which are what most people in the rifle world mean when they say tolerances, and even then they’re wrong) are how much of a gap there’s supposed to be. Tight tolerances allow tight clearances, but loose clearances can also have tight tolerances.
What this means is that if you’re slapping parts together (a) the trigger pull weights will be different for each barrel (b) the triggers have different sear engagements and associated creep (c) the barrels won’t point the same direction (d) the components will have more material than they need.
The problem with (a) is it means that the two barrels will have different lock times, in addition to feeling “off”. The driving factor for (b) is that low lock time triggers need to have much stronger sear engagement to maintain drop safety, but a creepy trigger also takes longer to pull, and close birds are fast. With (c), you’d never expect to screw on a new rifle barrel and have it achieve the same point of impact without rezeroing. A thin tube that’s attached to another thin tube, with all of the resultant misalignment potential, is worse; an 8 inch difference in pattern centers is a pretty decent result for CNC machined OU shotguns. With (d), you need to have a minimum amount of material that doesn’t exceed boundaries, but you really want the minimum amount of material if achievable. All of the extra mass here and there adds up really quickly.
Hand fitting is the only way to make all of those issues go away, right now. With (c) that will literally involve desoldering and resoldering the barrels to each other. For the most part, the people doing this work are experienced and expensive, they aren’t teenagers doing a summer gig with Chick-fil-A. All those hours add up. By the time you have a mechanically excellent shotgun, the engraving and fancy wood are pretty cheap. (The name is a significant cost driver too, of course.)
All that said, I have a 687 Silver Pigeon III. Yeah, the CG and H&H guns were a lot nicer and felt much better, but I needed something that would work for doves in SoCal a few days a year plus monthly clays, not to put on the mantle as an ostentatious display of wealth or win the Olympics.
Basically, there are things that matter for double-barrel shotgun performance:
- Weight
- Trigger quality
- The barrels pointing the same direction
Quick digression - nominal size is how big something is supposed to be. Tolerance is how much that size can vary - cut tolerances in half and increase cost for that machining operation by a factor of 10. Variance is how much the size actually does vary, and for the design to work needs to be within tolerance. Clearances (which are what most people in the rifle world mean when they say tolerances, and even then they’re wrong) are how much of a gap there’s supposed to be. Tight tolerances allow tight clearances, but loose clearances can also have tight tolerances.
What this means is that if you’re slapping parts together (a) the trigger pull weights will be different for each barrel (b) the triggers have different sear engagements and associated creep (c) the barrels won’t point the same direction (d) the components will have more material than they need.
The problem with (a) is it means that the two barrels will have different lock times, in addition to feeling “off”. The driving factor for (b) is that low lock time triggers need to have much stronger sear engagement to maintain drop safety, but a creepy trigger also takes longer to pull, and close birds are fast. With (c), you’d never expect to screw on a new rifle barrel and have it achieve the same point of impact without rezeroing. A thin tube that’s attached to another thin tube, with all of the resultant misalignment potential, is worse; an 8 inch difference in pattern centers is a pretty decent result for CNC machined OU shotguns. With (d), you need to have a minimum amount of material that doesn’t exceed boundaries, but you really want the minimum amount of material if achievable. All of the extra mass here and there adds up really quickly.
Hand fitting is the only way to make all of those issues go away, right now. With (c) that will literally involve desoldering and resoldering the barrels to each other. For the most part, the people doing this work are experienced and expensive, they aren’t teenagers doing a summer gig with Chick-fil-A. All those hours add up. By the time you have a mechanically excellent shotgun, the engraving and fancy wood are pretty cheap. (The name is a significant cost driver too, of course.)
All that said, I have a 687 Silver Pigeon III. Yeah, the CG and H&H guns were a lot nicer and felt much better, but I needed something that would work for doves in SoCal a few days a year plus monthly clays, not to put on the mantle as an ostentatious display of wealth or win the Olympics.
So, if you had a non-engraved O/A shotgun with plain vanilla wood (or hell, a synthetic stock, like an AI), but top-notch mechanicals, what would be “fair” non-Velben-good price? I have no idea about markups in either the rifle or shotgun world.
Imagine if you were selling them to the precision rifle crowd (not the Savage rifle crowd, lol, nor to the shotgun/polo crowd).
Separate stupid question (I’m sure): why two barrels soldered together, why not one piece of metal with two holes drilled through it? Go easy on me man, I’m no engineer, not even close.
I assume it’s just too hard to get the holes pointed in the same direction?
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Check out Longthorne Gunmakers. They make a one piece CNCd over under barrel. Those guns are pricey though
I was in the same boat a couple of years ago. I was looking for a Franchi U/O in 20g, new or used. I didn't find one, but I ran across a Benelli Montefeltro in 20g at cabelas (looked new) for a good price. It knocks peasants down quite well.
Mike
Mike
Barebones mechanical excellence is probably on the order of like $20k? Assuming we’re going for 1” pattern centers at 40yd and a trigger that’s as good as the triggertech diamond that’s drop-safe with a 1ms locktime, and is safe for shooting heavy loads forever with the occasional bearing surface servicing.
Regarding holes in the same direction, exactly. Shotgun barrel walls are thin enough to have difficulty not wandering when you try to drill the bore or profile the outside, which is why they’re *usually* forged. Once you’re doing two holes, there’s no guarantee they’ll have deflection errors in the same direction, and the fact that they aren’t rotationally symmetric means that the centering forces that counteract drill tip wandering won’t be too effective. It turns out they having two separate pieces actually makes it easier to get the same point of impact, it’s just a matter of how many times you’re willing to adjust the shimming.
I imagine that the barrel tooling Longthorne uses is a few orders of magnitude more expensive than their guns, though I will say that I’m surprised their prices are as low as they are, and I really want one…
I think you’ve combined my two questions. I think you’ve answered, “What’s a fair price for a o/a shotgun with barrels made from one piece of metal.”
I was asking:
- What’s a fair price for a non-adorned and inexpensivly-stocked o/a shotgun (but functionally & mechanically top-notch)? In other words, take all of the glitz out of it.
- Why can’t one drill two holes in one piece of metal for the barrels?
I have my answer for #2. What do you think about #1?
I might be misunderstanding. Why I’m confused is it seems you’re saying to get to an AI-level of performance, an o/a shotgun has got to be $20k. And this is with zero glitz, plastic stock, no engraving, etc etc.
I’m more than a little gobsmacked if that is what you meant. But if it is, I believe you.
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To be clear, there is no need to spend $10,000 on a shotgun. However, once you dip below $1,600-1,800 you are going to start compromising on quality and durability. The question is how much quality and durability do you need? If you really want to get serious about trap shooting it would be wise to spend at least $2,000 - which will get you a nice Browning Citori or a comparable Beretta (Silver Pigeon?). What you get for the money is a quality shotgun with a good trigger that will pattern well and is both reliable and durable. And you will need that durability. I don't consider myself a particularly serious or talented trap shooter and I will probably put about 4-5,000 rounds through my gun this year. Did the same last year and the year before that. During that time I have had 0 problems and replaced 0 parts. And I'm shooting a 30 year old shotgun I bought used for about $2,000. Who knows how many rounds the prior owner put through it.
If you compete in ATA tournaments, you're probably looking at 10,000 rounds a year. And the pros? More than that, sometimes a lot more. So yeah, some of those guys have $10-12,000 shotguns ... that they've put 250,000 rounds through. Looked at on a cost per round basis those guns are a bargain.
However, OP isn't really interested in trap shooting and sounds like he wants a "swamp" gun. If you're only going to be putting 500 or 1000 rounds through your shotgun a year you really don't need to spend $2,000 and a nice gun from Turkey will probably fit the bill.
If you compete in ATA tournaments, you're probably looking at 10,000 rounds a year. And the pros? More than that, sometimes a lot more. So yeah, some of those guys have $10-12,000 shotguns ... that they've put 250,000 rounds through. Looked at on a cost per round basis those guns are a bargain.
However, OP isn't really interested in trap shooting and sounds like he wants a "swamp" gun. If you're only going to be putting 500 or 1000 rounds through your shotgun a year you really don't need to spend $2,000 and a nice gun from Turkey will probably fit the bill.
First question was first paragraph, second question was second paragraph.
Yes, for a double-barreled shotgun to be as good a double-barreled shotgun as AI is a precision rifle, I think it will cost ~3x as much. Naturally you can cut the price in half to get 90% of the way there. I think the price floor for a “good” OU is around $2000, so that scales nicely taking the Tikka T3x as the generic “good” rifle.
It’s funny, isn’t it, that the most simple-seeming objects can be the hardest to make right?
It’s a sort of a Dunning-Kruger effect, lol, in at least a couple different ways.
Thank you for your analysis. I always appreciate your posts.
There is nothing in this world that’s as hard to engineer as functional yet simple elegance. And thanks, I always love the opportunity to nerd out
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The CZ might be lucky to see 300 rounds a year. I do however have a question for you based off your statement and it has been brushed upon briefly already. You said when you dip below 1600-1800, you start to comprise durability and quality. You reference Browning Citori. What’s your take on the Citori Hunter grades. They can be had for under 1500 if you have access to wholesale and I can find them in stores for 1539. Who do they stack up to a higher dollar Citori in the 2k price range.
Rooster - the honest answer is "I don't know". My knowledge is as a trap shooter who's owned a Citori CXT and a Ljutic (not appropriate for you). Know fellow shooters who have Browning 725's and BT99's and assorted Berettas, Kolar, Perazzis, SKB's and Caeser Guerrinis, etc. Again those guns tend to start at $2000 and go up from there. Don't know much about the Browning Hunter grades, but Brownings other shotguns have an excellent reputation.
Also worthwhile looking at used shotguns (particularly Browning and Beretta). As I've said before, these guns are built for durability so if the prior owner has taken care of it you're not giving up much by buying used.
Also worthwhile looking at used shotguns (particularly Browning and Beretta). As I've said before, these guns are built for durability so if the prior owner has taken care of it you're not giving up much by buying used.
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To re-add the original context, I was answering the question about mechanical vs inertia triggers and answering why there wasn't standardization, since there are good and bad versions of each. And I was trying to indicate that while some very ultra high-end ($12K and up) target guns had gone to mechanical hand-fit triggers, many of the "good" sub $12K brands still likely used inertia triggers because long ago cheap mechanical single (vs double) triggers often had a problem with doubling when you shot them. So it was seen as an upgrade feature from cheap Spanish imports, for instance, in the 60's, over something like a Beretta O/U or a Browning O/U. So those two companies' designs have retained the inertia triggers. But the $12K was trying to show that the mechanical triggers on K guns are sort of out of the mainstream. I was trying to make the same point you're making--the guns I'm referencing in the beginning aren't common grade O/U's.
HTH
I too like a slightly high shooting gun as I want to see the target/bird at all times and never let it get under my barrel. I've seen a lot of misses over a bird, much fewer missing under.
So, guys....I shot tournament skeet for a very long time and was my state's assoc Pres for a bit and ran a top 20 national shoot for a while. While I don't consider myself an expert, I do think I have some significant experience with OU target grade guns.
The comment above that all the cost is driven only by high end wood and engraving is, IMO, not true. Oh yeah, Krieghoff engraving costs a small fortune and on K-80, a Kolar, a Perazzi, etc you can jack the price up as high as you want. I know a wealthy fella who bought a K-80 engraved by Creative Arts in Italy for about $80k. $10k shotgun bumped up $70k for three color gold full Bulino engraving. Below is an example.
But the base costs of these types of guns is indeed in that $10k area (well, a bit more these days) and that's for a standard grade. So, why pay that much? Well, a fairly well engaged skeet or trap shooter may well put 15-20K rounds thru their shotgun...year after year, decade after decade, and they do NOT expect it to break in the middle of a tournament...ever. My K-80 is a 1985 vintage gun that I campaigned heavily and it has NEVER once broke on me. And that's one reason...the main reason...that people buy guns like those.
But, I also have seen Beretta 68x guns (all of the 68x guns are basically the very same action...as are most of the Brownings) also can go for decades. Now, I did break a trigger spring in a 682 Gold once...but didn't know it as it kept on shooting until I took it in for an annual. haha
Triggers were mentioned...my K-80 and Kolar both have mechanical triggers and I like that. I did buy a used 682 Gold (the OG with the Ti Nitrate finish on the receiver...bullet proof stuff and I understand that they reason they had to stop with that finish was they were dumping the waste into some river and got caught! haha...dunno if its true) two barrel set (12 and 20) and yes, the triggers are inertial and when tuned correctly for light loads they also work flawlessly. My 682 Gold...which I sold to buy the Kolar back in about 2000...had inertial triggers tuned by Briley when I sent it there for subgauge tubes and it never failed to fire even with .410 tubes in it.
A lot of shotgunners slap the trigger and don't give a fig about creep or crispness. I'm not one of them. I do think Keighoff has the best triggers in the business...but if you ever pulled the stock off of one you would recoil in horror at all the tiny springs and parts hung from the frame in there...I don't EVER take my K-80 stock off. If needed, it goes to a gunsmith. I like all my triggers to break like glass. Kolar and Perazzi have drop out trigger groups (again, mo' money) which are very handy as its easy to remove them for cleaning and lubrication.
If you are not shooting very much, occassional hunting and occassional clay targets from a hand thrower or hand cocked then no, you certainly don't need a shotgun like a K-80....but I really don't care what anybody says about their experience with with low end OUs....cheap is cheap for a reason. Think perhaps AI vs Savage....both will send a bullet down range. Which is a far better built rifle with commensurate costs. But, for some people, their objectives, their budget, and the amount of shooting that they do...a Savage might be right up their alley while for another its going to be a high end, no holds barred, custom built $5-6K rifle....then add the scope. See what I'm saying.
A gun used for hunting will not see very many rounds at all in comparison to clay target guns....and you can often get away with a less expensive gun...until it fails on the wild pheasant hunt of your dreams. Then you throw it in the lake and get a better shotgun. But, not all hunting guns are less expensive...upland guns can be found that are very pricey....like a David McKay Brown which can easily get you in the $50K territory and up (if I ever win the Powerball, I want a McKay Brown round body OU). They are like Purdy, Boss, etc....hand made. All the parts, hand made and hand fitted. Now, one can argue that a CNC process is more accurate and repeatable....but you don't see the Prince of Wales shooting a CNC production gun! haha
So, one should, IMO, get the gun that they can afford and which will serve for their intended purpose. But, if high volume shooting is in the cards, then yes....a Beretta/Browning is sort of entry level for that use case...again, in my never humble opinion. LOL
Carry on.
Double barrel shotguns are significantly more labor intensive than rifles and it has absolutely nothing to do with engraving and wood.
A rifle is mostly lathe work, and simple lathe work at that.
The receiver of any double gun has a shitload of precision milled features. Far more so than any rifle and that takes just more time to do and more fixturing/work holding to do well.
The barrel hinge on any double gun is a very complex, finely fitted feature that exists in no bolt action rifle.
The barrels are silver soldered together, then regulated by hand.
The lockwork on any good double gun has much more in common with that of a revolver than the simple trigger of a bolt action rifle.
I could go on and on but you get the picture.
You can buy two Tac Ops rifles for the price of an entry level Krieghoff, Kolar, or Perazzi shotgun.
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@Baron23 @308pirate
my reference to engraving and wood costs being more are based off my simple redneck understanding of that stuff. I was always under the assumption that a well established master engraver would cost more than an apprentice to do work. I would ASSume that most of these cheap shallow hand engraved guns are done by some fresh engraver learning the trade and finding a job that would take them to perfect the craft. The high end companies would probably not take someone that isn’t heavily experienced and great at that skill to do 20k plus guns. I understand what all is said so far, my budget was set by me as what I wanted to drag into the woods and swamp. I like nice stuff and have a handful of rifles built by some of guys at GAP. I understand the quality you get with the money you spend.
Chances are I will still end up with a Citori and the CZ will be a new home for dust bunnies. That follow up will be posted shortly pending a response from CZ. I knew I wasn’t going to get a work of art for 1k. I would however expect a fairly good quality firearm that would come out of the safe and work for me when I asked it too. One that would handle the 5K or less rounds it would ever see in use by me, and that number is a stretch. Will this CZ do that? Of course I have no doubt it will handle that small number of shells through it. Will I give it a chance to do that is the question I have right now.
my reference to engraving and wood costs being more are based off my simple redneck understanding of that stuff. I was always under the assumption that a well established master engraver would cost more than an apprentice to do work. I would ASSume that most of these cheap shallow hand engraved guns are done by some fresh engraver learning the trade and finding a job that would take them to perfect the craft. The high end companies would probably not take someone that isn’t heavily experienced and great at that skill to do 20k plus guns. I understand what all is said so far, my budget was set by me as what I wanted to drag into the woods and swamp. I like nice stuff and have a handful of rifles built by some of guys at GAP. I understand the quality you get with the money you spend.
Chances are I will still end up with a Citori and the CZ will be a new home for dust bunnies. That follow up will be posted shortly pending a response from CZ. I knew I wasn’t going to get a work of art for 1k. I would however expect a fairly good quality firearm that would come out of the safe and work for me when I asked it too. One that would handle the 5K or less rounds it would ever see in use by me, and that number is a stretch. Will this CZ do that? Of course I have no doubt it will handle that small number of shells through it. Will I give it a chance to do that is the question I have right now.
Engraving is not what drives the cost of quality guns. How many times does that need to be said?
Again, you can drive the price of a $12k OU into the stratosphere w wood and engraving but it’s still a $12k shotgun from the get go.
Not sure what shallow engraving you are speaking of, but chances are it not hand engraved at all. Laser engraving on production guns is common these days.
The CZ might work out great for you…especially if your lifetime round count will be 5k. But don’t shoot a high end shotgun…it will spoil you (ask me how I know! Haha).
and there are indeed other considerations other than window dressing of engraving and wood. What’s a Purdy go for these days….$150k? And yes, just like McKay Brown, whose main gunsmiths have worked with him for over 35 years, people at places like Purdy and Boss start as low level apprentices and view it as a job for life.
good luck and don’t chuck the CZ until you’ve shot it. May fit and handle just as you wish.
Cheers
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I put 50 through it today. It shoots better than I’m capable of and handles plenty good enough for me. I have an issue with the choke fitment and it will be going back to CZ for repair/replacement. That out of the box issue really gets me. Even at a 1k price point, I expected more. Hell, I have a tristar 410 semi auto that my youngest daughter shoots and I’ve had zero issues with it. Maybe I got a lemon, but so far there has been nobody chime in this far on experience with a CZ blaster. Maybe I’m crazy who knows. I do appreciate most input if have gotten here. That’s the main reason I posted this thread. Seems the hide has a lot to offer if you catch the right person. Thanks for your input
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Bottom barrel threads are out of tolerance best I can tell. They go in about 3/4 and get super hard to turn. Maybe the counterbore is out of tolerance and it is causing fitment issues. The top barrel is fine.
I assume you've cleaned it out well. If that didn't work send it in.
Ask CZ if you can send the barrels only. Wood stocks have been broken by shippers before. Ask me how I know.....
And you are putting a good grease on the choke tube threads, right?
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@308pirate
I cleaned the threads with a brass brush prior to any attempt to insert chokes. I also applied a moly based lubricant on all parts of the gun after it was stripped down to get any residual packing grease off. I am hoping they will let me send just the barrel assembly in. That way I can keep the forearm and stock with me.
I used anti-seize on the threads of the chokes when I tried to install.
@Baron23
I cleaned the threads with a brass brush prior to any attempt to insert chokes. I also applied a moly based lubricant on all parts of the gun after it was stripped down to get any residual packing grease off. I am hoping they will let me send just the barrel assembly in. That way I can keep the forearm and stock with me.
I used anti-seize on the threads of the chokes when I tried to install.
@Baron23
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Will update since I had some time to mess with it today. Two issues stuck out to me. The top barrel is good. The chokes had a finish on them that seemed to be too thick to fit in the bottom barrel counterbore/backbore. I took some 400 grit and cleaned that off, and they fit way better but still some tightness. I got one to seat all the way down though. I took a small cleaning hook and ran it inside the barrel to see how the choke and barrel lined up. There was a lip on the top portions where the choke and barrel meet, but the bottom portion was flush. This leads me to think the counterbore is not concentric with the choke threads OR the chokes are not perfect. I lean toward the counterbore being non concentric to the thread otherwise I would have fitment issues on the top barrel. Either way, it will go back to CZ. I will call them Monday and talk to them person to person to relay the issue better than a warranty request form online would do.
I don’t see a reason why anti-seize won’t work but I’m pretty sure that everybody I know uses a good grease on choke tubes. Not just on the threads but also a thin coating on the body of the tube.
And a properly made screw choke shotgun barrel should absolutely have a small step down at the rear of the choke tube so as to not impact the back of the tube with the load. Choke tubes have been shot of of guns before.
And not to rub it in…or maybe I am….but you don’t have these issues w the higher end shotguns we have been talking about.
Yes, there are people who will swear that their Turkish shotgun is as good as a Krieghoff. But there are people who swear a Savage is as good as an AI or other top drawer rifle.
Def send that back to CZ. Be interested in what is their CS response.
Best of luck.
I've been watching this thread for a while now because I'm interested in a hunting grade over/under as well.
My dad got a CZ last year that he seems to like, granted he's not going over it nearly as closely as you have been. It shoots well. He went through two savage 555's before the cz that had fitment issues at the FFL so he refused/sent them back.
Is there a thing else out there like the citori hunters? Meaning a proven action, company, and gun that's geared more towards bush whacking than trap? Any of the 68X stuff like that?
My dad got a CZ last year that he seems to like, granted he's not going over it nearly as closely as you have been. It shoots well. He went through two savage 555's before the cz that had fitment issues at the FFL so he refused/sent them back.
Is there a thing else out there like the citori hunters? Meaning a proven action, company, and gun that's geared more towards bush whacking than trap? Any of the 68X stuff like that?
I have a Citori White Lightning 12 ga and it is a really nice shotgun, use it for sporting clays, trap, hunting has different choke tubes so can use it for just about anything, they are not cheap though. Think it's my favorite shotgun right next to my old 870 wingmaster 20 ga.
- Nov 3, 2010
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From my experience looking around this far in brand new, you will not get into anything browning, beretta wise cheaper than the Browning Hunter grades. I have seen them on the shelf for 1539 at a couple of places. If you are ok with used, you can find a few steps up in the Citori for 1300(maybe lower) and up if you look around. The Beretta’s are about the same.
- Nov 3, 2010
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I don’t think any amount of grease would have made these choke tubes screw in. Maybe I wasn’t clear in my explanation of the lip. Once the choke was all the way seated, one half of it sat flush with the bore like it should, but the other half had just enough lip that my cleaning pick(same pick I used to check for bad 50bmg brass) catches on it. It should be flush all the way around if I’m not mistaken.
I have no doubt the QC of Cz is not even remotely the same as Browning, Beretta, or ANY of the top top shotguns makers. I believe all of the major mass produced guns have gone to CNC cut receivers but could be wrong there as well. At any rate I got MY answer, which is it doesn’t seem like I can get a good hunting OU for my 1k price point. Maybe someone else will get lucky and get one that has zero issues from the box. I like to try smaller known companies from time to time to see if they have something worth a shit. If this gun continues to serve problems up, I’ll stop messing with it, get a Citori Hunter grade and move on with life. An update will be coming once CZ and I talk about the next steps. I won’t mash a company until it deserves it. Maybe I just got some choke tubes made on Friday at closing time. I drive by some outdoor stores several times a week, maybe I’ll stop and get a new choke and see how it threads in to this gun.
I have been watching this thread off and on for as long as it has been posted,, kind of late in a reply,,, I have been shooting o/u over 40 years,, Browning, Remington model 3200, Berretta, , I think here lately, depending on what a person would be doing with the shotgun,, Browning has the selection… My personal shotguns are Berretta 682x, fixed choke, Berretta 682 Sporting,, tube chokes,,, Browning Citori, field, Superlite…. all12 gage,,, Wife shoots Browning 20 gage, 26 inch barrels, field gun…. Excellent ladies shotgun…. I have saw a few CZ shotguns,, but they were a little off in their quality control…these 682 Berretta are around,, might need some TLC, still parts around,,, a very sound shotgun( 682 series)
Just a few o/u’s out there that will function correctly when needed,, open without delay,, tubes screw in and stay tight, shoot where you are looking.. etc. just my thoughts. …my favorite that I shoot doves with and a few clay targets is my Berretta 682x, 30 inch barrels, choked IM/ F.. no choke tubes to mess with,,gets the job done!!!!
Charlie112
My 3200 was a 26 inch, fixed choke, ic/mod. the shotgun had the update on the receiver face performed before I purchased it, then, I shot the hell out of it,, no problems,,, I used it as a field gun and shot skeet and sporting clays with it,,, had a lot of fun putting rounds thru it!! I consider my self lucky for it never let me down… probably 4-5k rounds thru it while I owned the shotgun,,, might have been a few more rounds,, I was young then and running and gunning.. In the Midwest, that barrel combo per length and fixed choked was great!!
