If you see anything in the meantime on eBay and you want it I’m more than happy to store it for you until you can make it over here, or I can get stateside!
Cheers,
Dr. S
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Parker Hale M82/84/85/87 and C3/C3A1
- Thread starter sandwarrior
- Start date
If you see anything in the meantime on eBay and you want it I’m more than happy to store it for you until you can make it over here, or I can get stateside!
Cheers,
Dr. S
Came across this tread and thought I would post a couple of pictures of my M85 and tell of it's build. Well actually I built two of them, one for my son and one for me, both in 6.5 Creedmoor. My son was the driver in this project telling me that he could find the parts and I could build the rifles. Finding the parts was easy, the builds were a lot more complicated
Started with bare receivers bought off of Gun Broker for $25 each, got four of them. And he found a M82 receiver also. Bolts were also from Gun Broker and through a lot of searching he found two stock, two sets of lower metal and one correct M85 trigger as well as one I was able to modify with a trigger shoe to match the original.
Long story on setting up the receivers for machining, heat treating, DLC on the bolts and receivers and nitriding the barrels. He has a Brux barrel on his rifle and I have a Bartlein on mine. Put a Griffin style muzzle break on both that works with our form 1 suppressors. Doing the work myself as time allowed, it was about 3 years to get completed.
I did not want to machine off the ears on top of the receivers but did not want to duplicate the original scope mount system. Found a source for steel picatinny rail and modified the rail to fit between the ears. I did drill and tap the receivers for the rail. Works well though there is only one location available with this for mounting the rear scope ring.
Both guns will shoot well under 0.5 MOA. Mine is a pig with a very heavy profile barrel but it is not a gun I was planning to pack around so it works for me. Still working through what I want for a bolt handle, shape, size, smooth, knurled, etc. It is a McMillan stock but didn't have the spacers so I extended the stock which is why you see a vertical line in the stock.
We really enjoy shooting the rifles and at some time in the future (I hope) we will complete the builds on the other three receivers.
Started with bare receivers bought off of Gun Broker for $25 each, got four of them. And he found a M82 receiver also. Bolts were also from Gun Broker and through a lot of searching he found two stock, two sets of lower metal and one correct M85 trigger as well as one I was able to modify with a trigger shoe to match the original.
Long story on setting up the receivers for machining, heat treating, DLC on the bolts and receivers and nitriding the barrels. He has a Brux barrel on his rifle and I have a Bartlein on mine. Put a Griffin style muzzle break on both that works with our form 1 suppressors. Doing the work myself as time allowed, it was about 3 years to get completed.
I did not want to machine off the ears on top of the receivers but did not want to duplicate the original scope mount system. Found a source for steel picatinny rail and modified the rail to fit between the ears. I did drill and tap the receivers for the rail. Works well though there is only one location available with this for mounting the rear scope ring.
Both guns will shoot well under 0.5 MOA. Mine is a pig with a very heavy profile barrel but it is not a gun I was planning to pack around so it works for me. Still working through what I want for a bolt handle, shape, size, smooth, knurled, etc. It is a McMillan stock but didn't have the spacers so I extended the stock which is why you see a vertical line in the stock.
We really enjoy shooting the rifles and at some time in the future (I hope) we will complete the builds on the other three receivers.
While I love the M85 PH, there are things about it that could have been improved and certainly now too.
The bayonet lug for mounting the bipod is too far forward. Your rail will probably work better.
The rabbit ear top is there for if you wish to use the irons. I love the irons on the M85, but like all irons they certainly aren't as good as a scope. I would have left the escutcheon, but it's not always doable if you can't find the right sights (added: base) for it.
Which brings us to the scopes that were issued on these. They may have been good at the time, but they are obsolete now. The Vortex @acpchuck has on there is a much better scope and what is should be used.
Lastly, it's in fuckin' 7.62. As @acpchuck has these in 6.5 Creed, that's an excellent round for this set-up. My preference is going to be in 7mm-08. But, same thing kind of. We've moved on from the fat kid at the racetrack, the 7.62. We should chamber these rifles in cartridges that shoot as far as we can see. I know it goes against history, but old cars have been hot-rodded for a long long time. No need to limit our rifles for the purists who would rather see the rifle in a museum.
The bayonet lug for mounting the bipod is too far forward. Your rail will probably work better.
The rabbit ear top is there for if you wish to use the irons. I love the irons on the M85, but like all irons they certainly aren't as good as a scope. I would have left the escutcheon, but it's not always doable if you can't find the right sights (added: base) for it.
Which brings us to the scopes that were issued on these. They may have been good at the time, but they are obsolete now. The Vortex @acpchuck has on there is a much better scope and what is should be used.
Lastly, it's in fuckin' 7.62. As @acpchuck has these in 6.5 Creed, that's an excellent round for this set-up. My preference is going to be in 7mm-08. But, same thing kind of. We've moved on from the fat kid at the racetrack, the 7.62. We should chamber these rifles in cartridges that shoot as far as we can see. I know it goes against history, but old cars have been hot-rodded for a long long time. No need to limit our rifles for the purists who would rather see the rifle in a museum.
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acpchuck. I like what you did with a $25.00 raw casting.
I'm considering something similar. Can you tell me what areas of the receiver you machined prior to heat treat? Roughly how many hours did you put in to the build? Who did you use for heat treat? Was there any distortion? I appreciate your comments as it may encourage a few others to go down this route.
Thanks,
Ron (Canada)
I'm considering something similar. Can you tell me what areas of the receiver you machined prior to heat treat? Roughly how many hours did you put in to the build? Who did you use for heat treat? Was there any distortion? I appreciate your comments as it may encourage a few others to go down this route.
Thanks,
Ron (Canada)
Figuring out where to start, the order of what to do and how to hold the receivers while machining was more difficult than the actual machining work. Virtually every step required a jig or fixture of some type to hold the receivers. Probably half the time I spent on this project was making the jigs or fixtures. All the work was done on a Grizzly combo lathe/mill machine. For a starting point on what the receivers looked like raw, there is a posting on Gun Broker showing one for sale. Have to say when you hold one in hand, you get a better appreciation how much work is needing to be done. Each receiver was slightly different in dimensions so each one had to be individually set up to ensure the machining would be correct.
I did send the receivers to an engraver to have serial numbers put on them. Don’t know if it was needed or not but as I was sending them out for heat treating and then for DLC treatment, and to keep track of which one was which I thought it best to do this.
Quick list of what I had do but not all in the order it was done. I started with drilling and tapping for stock screws and for the bottom metal. Machined off the raised portion on top of the receiver. This is from the casting and is over the front ring. Drilled the trigger pin hole on the hanger. Cut the slot between the mag well and trigger hanger, and for the front point of the bottom metal. Also drilled and tapped the hole for the ejector/bolt stop and a small location hole for a pin to position the spring for this.
Biggest challenge was setting up the receiver for threading for a barrel. Used a piece of steel tubing about 10 inches long that I could bolt to a face plate. Drilled and tapped for bolts that I modified with brass tips so not to mar the receivers when holding them.
Bought an 18 inch long ground ½ inch rod and brass tubing make an indicator rod for centering the receiver in the fixture based on the bolt. Epoxied the brass tubing onto the rod to act as sleeves in two places on the rod to match up with the front and rear rings of the receiver. Measured the inside diameters on the receivers, started with the largest and turned down the brass on the rod between centers for a tight fit for each receiver.
Once the receivers were dialed in for center (same way as using a rod to center a barrel for chambering and threading) by using points as close to the receiver face and then 12 inches out at the end of the rod, I turned the inside of the front receiver ring to the proper diameter for the treads. Also faced off the front of receiver and the bolt lugs. Because of the length of threads in the front receiver and concern of deflection in the boring tool holding the threading bit, I got to about 75 or 80% of thread depth and then finished with a tap centered by the tail stock. Will note here that the metal on the receiver as easy to cut but it did seem 'grainy' and not cleaning cutting as other steel.
Had to machine the slot where the bolt handle comes down against the receiver. and then other small filing work to clean everything up.
For the heat treating I used Blanchards in Utah and asked for the Tom Burgess heat treat for Mauser receivers. Based on what I read on-line this seemed the best option. Cost was about $125 for all 5 receivers and turn around was pretty quick. Happy with how they turned out. From what I can tell, there wasn’t any dimensional changes to the receivers from the heat treating.
On a side note, I used the tap for the barrel threads to clean them up before I started threading barrels.
As for how much time it took for this, I couldn’t accurately say as it took about 2 years to do just the receivers. Was living in SE Idaho at the time and my lathe was in an unheated garage so limited to about half the year to work on them. Also I would try to have a 2 or 3 hour block of time to work on them so I could focus on the project. Best guess is for fixtures and 5 receivers, putting barrels on two actions and completing the stock work, is probably 100 to 150 hours of time.
As said before, if a person can do the work themselves and you want a M85 style rifle, it is a fun project and very satisfying to have done. You have a unique rifle unlike just about anything out there. However from a time standpoint and especially if you had to pay for the work to finish out the receiver, buying a commercial receiver would be faster and less expensive.
Hope this helps. If I can figure out where I put the pictures of the work I did on this, I will post them.
I did send the receivers to an engraver to have serial numbers put on them. Don’t know if it was needed or not but as I was sending them out for heat treating and then for DLC treatment, and to keep track of which one was which I thought it best to do this.
Quick list of what I had do but not all in the order it was done. I started with drilling and tapping for stock screws and for the bottom metal. Machined off the raised portion on top of the receiver. This is from the casting and is over the front ring. Drilled the trigger pin hole on the hanger. Cut the slot between the mag well and trigger hanger, and for the front point of the bottom metal. Also drilled and tapped the hole for the ejector/bolt stop and a small location hole for a pin to position the spring for this.
Biggest challenge was setting up the receiver for threading for a barrel. Used a piece of steel tubing about 10 inches long that I could bolt to a face plate. Drilled and tapped for bolts that I modified with brass tips so not to mar the receivers when holding them.
Bought an 18 inch long ground ½ inch rod and brass tubing make an indicator rod for centering the receiver in the fixture based on the bolt. Epoxied the brass tubing onto the rod to act as sleeves in two places on the rod to match up with the front and rear rings of the receiver. Measured the inside diameters on the receivers, started with the largest and turned down the brass on the rod between centers for a tight fit for each receiver.
Once the receivers were dialed in for center (same way as using a rod to center a barrel for chambering and threading) by using points as close to the receiver face and then 12 inches out at the end of the rod, I turned the inside of the front receiver ring to the proper diameter for the treads. Also faced off the front of receiver and the bolt lugs. Because of the length of threads in the front receiver and concern of deflection in the boring tool holding the threading bit, I got to about 75 or 80% of thread depth and then finished with a tap centered by the tail stock. Will note here that the metal on the receiver as easy to cut but it did seem 'grainy' and not cleaning cutting as other steel.
Had to machine the slot where the bolt handle comes down against the receiver. and then other small filing work to clean everything up.
For the heat treating I used Blanchards in Utah and asked for the Tom Burgess heat treat for Mauser receivers. Based on what I read on-line this seemed the best option. Cost was about $125 for all 5 receivers and turn around was pretty quick. Happy with how they turned out. From what I can tell, there wasn’t any dimensional changes to the receivers from the heat treating.
On a side note, I used the tap for the barrel threads to clean them up before I started threading barrels.
As for how much time it took for this, I couldn’t accurately say as it took about 2 years to do just the receivers. Was living in SE Idaho at the time and my lathe was in an unheated garage so limited to about half the year to work on them. Also I would try to have a 2 or 3 hour block of time to work on them so I could focus on the project. Best guess is for fixtures and 5 receivers, putting barrels on two actions and completing the stock work, is probably 100 to 150 hours of time.
As said before, if a person can do the work themselves and you want a M85 style rifle, it is a fun project and very satisfying to have done. You have a unique rifle unlike just about anything out there. However from a time standpoint and especially if you had to pay for the work to finish out the receiver, buying a commercial receiver would be faster and less expensive.
Hope this helps. If I can figure out where I put the pictures of the work I did on this, I will post them.
acpchuck - Thanks for the detail. Machining on these receivers is a lot of work? Can you post pictures of the fixtures you built?
Ron (Canada)
Ron (Canada)
Got lucky and found the storage device for the pictures.
First is how I held the receiver to drill the stock bold holes. I was 1.5 inch square tubing with 1/4 inch wall thickness. Cut out a pocket for the rear sight ears on the top of the receiver to go into. Used a steel rod through the receiver that I drilled holes through for bolts to hold the receiver in place. I used an indicator to make sure the bottom of the receiver was perpendicular to the drill bit.
Rod I made to center the receivers in the fixture. By using brass it was easy to turn down to fit into the receivers.
First is how I held the receiver to drill the stock bold holes. I was 1.5 inch square tubing with 1/4 inch wall thickness. Cut out a pocket for the rear sight ears on the top of the receiver to go into. Used a steel rod through the receiver that I drilled holes through for bolts to hold the receiver in place. I used an indicator to make sure the bottom of the receiver was perpendicular to the drill bit.
Rod I made to center the receivers in the fixture. By using brass it was easy to turn down to fit into the receivers.
Set up with a receiver in the steel tubing attached to the faceplate, and with the centering rod in place being dialed in. Don't remember taking a crooked picture. LOL
Picture of the tap used for the receiver barrel threads after they had been about 75 to 80% cut. Note the bolts to hold the receiver are staggered some to better match up with locations on the receiver.
Picture of the tap used for the receiver barrel threads after they had been about 75 to 80% cut. Note the bolts to hold the receiver are staggered some to better match up with locations on the receiver.
Last picture showing the set up for the slot cut needed for the bottom metal. I used the first fixture I made to hold the receiver to drill the stock bolt holes to hold the receiver again. This bolted to piece of channel steel that is welded to angle steel bolt to the cross slide on the compound. This was not near as rigid as I want so it took a long time to cut these slots as each cut was like 0.010 depth for each pass.
Don't have a picture of the fixture I used to hold the receiver to do machining work on the top of the receivers. It was a 1.5 x 1.5 inch solid bar stock that was drilled and taped to use the same hold down rod as in the first picture. I did some cuts in this with an end mill for the bottom lug and trigger hanger.
Don't have a picture of the fixture I used to hold the receiver to do machining work on the top of the receivers. It was a 1.5 x 1.5 inch solid bar stock that was drilled and taped to use the same hold down rod as in the first picture. I did some cuts in this with an end mill for the bottom lug and trigger hanger.
Some pictures of my son's rifle. His has the green stock with spacers. He has added Bradley cheek rest.
Target shot at 435 yards (longest distance he can shoot on his property). H4350 with Hornady 147 ELD.
And because he likes to shoot at night, with a Gen 3 KN 203 PVS9 Simrad. Note the tape on the bolt handle is to prevent scratching when installing the clip on. Longest kill on a coyote at night with this rig was ranged at 439 yards.
Target shot at 435 yards (longest distance he can shoot on his property). H4350 with Hornady 147 ELD.
And because he likes to shoot at night, with a Gen 3 KN 203 PVS9 Simrad. Note the tape on the bolt handle is to prevent scratching when installing the clip on. Longest kill on a coyote at night with this rig was ranged at 439 yards.
I love the work you guys have done with your Parker Hales. I hate to necro a post but, I'd love to throw my rifle into the ring for you all. I bought the M86 receiver from gunbroker when Numrich had a bunch of the receivers left. Over time I was able to source a PH bolt, bolt stop and ejector here and there over time. The barrel is a PH 1200 barrel in 7.62 Nato. 1:12 and 29" long. Stock is McMillan A3. Bottom metal is a CDI M98 AI mag adapter. I did the assembly myself. Glass is a Sightron 4-20 x 50mm (30mm tube) I don't get to shoot it as much as I like. I've tried to do some hand loading for it, but truth be told, it loves the cheap Prvi Partizan 147gr M80 stuff.
I should have said that the Brit company Sportmatch , make AI mounts as well I think , anyway I use the 30mm rings on my M85 to mount a old M3 MK4 and it works very well indeed in size & appearance & use , ie need no cheek riser for the scope/stock shape etc .They really work far better than I thought , fit is perfect for the M85 rifle .
For those who have fitted 7.62 Rem 700 DBM to theirs, how did you deal with the difference in hole spacing?
I've just picked up a Really beat up Parker Hale 1200 TX, and its beyond restoring to original. So I'm going to go with a tasteful modernisation to something like a C3A1.
I've just picked up a Really beat up Parker Hale 1200 TX, and its beyond restoring to original. So I'm going to go with a tasteful modernisation to something like a C3A1.
Did you buy one of those ones off Gun City? You should be able to pick up an M98/K98 bottom metal that will fit. The PH’s are just a standard length commercial M98 Mauser action. Also any of the PH 1200 series bottom metals fit eg. Sporters etc.
Afternoon One and All
I've recently picked up a Parker Hale 1200 TX. Sorry to say, she's lived a pretty sad life. Stock is beat up, Bolt has had a cheap and tacky skull soldered on for a knob, scope base soldered in place. Barrel is shot.
But the action and trigger are mint. As those of you in the know know, these are the sweetest of the Mauser actions, and the best triggers fitted then or now to one!
I've managed to remove the parts erroneously soldered on, and am starting to refinish the stock. Given the sad state she's in, I wont be looking to take her back to original, Instead I'm going to go with a more tasteful modernisation with the aim of having a rifle for casual PRS type competition.
I've got the wood working skills to inlet new bottom metal, an internal cheek riser and QD sling studs and checker the stock, and a good friend who spins up all my barrels.
The part I need the communities help with is the Bottom Metal:
I know that CDI made a Mauser DBM for AICS mags. And in can feel it in my bones that someone out there has one going un-loved. Be it leftover inventory, A project that never happened or a rifle that changed plans.
Or some information on the PTG DBM. They don't list the hole spacing for the Short action version. Does anyone know if they mean short action Mausers? or a full length Mauser and a short action Mag? They also seem to be for the older AE mags, not AICS mags, but I've seen conflicting info. Ive reached out to PTG but they seem to have a reputation for not answering emails. Don't know if that's deserved or not.
Anyone who has fitted a REM 700 DBM that could give me some guidance would be a god-send at this point!
If you have one, Or know of one somewhere in the wild, even have big foot style pictures of one roaming free let me know!
Cheers
Kiwi
I've recently picked up a Parker Hale 1200 TX. Sorry to say, she's lived a pretty sad life. Stock is beat up, Bolt has had a cheap and tacky skull soldered on for a knob, scope base soldered in place. Barrel is shot.
But the action and trigger are mint. As those of you in the know know, these are the sweetest of the Mauser actions, and the best triggers fitted then or now to one!
I've managed to remove the parts erroneously soldered on, and am starting to refinish the stock. Given the sad state she's in, I wont be looking to take her back to original, Instead I'm going to go with a more tasteful modernisation with the aim of having a rifle for casual PRS type competition.
I've got the wood working skills to inlet new bottom metal, an internal cheek riser and QD sling studs and checker the stock, and a good friend who spins up all my barrels.
The part I need the communities help with is the Bottom Metal:
I know that CDI made a Mauser DBM for AICS mags. And in can feel it in my bones that someone out there has one going un-loved. Be it leftover inventory, A project that never happened or a rifle that changed plans.
Or some information on the PTG DBM. They don't list the hole spacing for the Short action version. Does anyone know if they mean short action Mausers? or a full length Mauser and a short action Mag? They also seem to be for the older AE mags, not AICS mags, but I've seen conflicting info. Ive reached out to PTG but they seem to have a reputation for not answering emails. Don't know if that's deserved or not.
Anyone who has fitted a REM 700 DBM that could give me some guidance would be a god-send at this point!
If you have one, Or know of one somewhere in the wild, even have big foot style pictures of one roaming free let me know!
Cheers
Kiwi
Sure did! Got her cheap too!
Mine is a blind mag version. I can definitely find surplus floor plates, but really where im going to a detachable AICS mag if its at all humanly possible!
CDI definitely make a detachable mag bottom metal not sure it was AI though. I was looking at those rifles at GC but we’re ridiculous prices and sounds like it was all beat up to boot?! I already have one that is around 80% complete in its transformation. I’ve had my eye out for a ZF69 or 84 scope but nothing yet so I have a Kahles 6x42 to Duracoat along with the rest of the rifle in that Matt charcoal grey colour they were coated in. My TX1200 was a 5 rounder with Bottom metal. Still had the 5E sights on it. C3 conversion sounds cool though. Look forward to the photos!
Unfortunately, Jeff, who founded CDI passed away.
The only company that I know of making magazine bottom metal for Mausers is Archangel. Stocks are all 'modern funky', but the magazines work.
Actually , there are very few area's I would " Improve " , other wise you lose the essence of the design , it just needs little well thought out twekks , one the muzzle needs the iron sight base dia enlarged , so a flash hider that hosts a suppressor can be fitted & retain the front iron sight .
The scope mount area can either stay the same or the dovetails change to pit spec , BUT keep the same overall design ie ears etc stay , Only the dovetail spec change to up dated Pitcanny , the rear screw ( the one that screws into wood/fibreglass , on receiver ) change to screw into receiver .
Stock leave as is , except make it fold like a Manners , and thats IT for me , calibre updates not needed by me , just run 308 HOT like Lapua HPS .
The scope mount area can either stay the same or the dovetails change to pit spec , BUT keep the same overall design ie ears etc stay , Only the dovetail spec change to up dated Pitcanny , the rear screw ( the one that screws into wood/fibreglass , on receiver ) change to screw into receiver .
Stock leave as is , except make it fold like a Manners , and thats IT for me , calibre updates not needed by me , just run 308 HOT like Lapua HPS .
Chris,
Which model are you referring to? For me, why run .308 hot when it still won't do what a manbun, or 7-08 does with normal recoil? Reaching out to distance is not about power, it's about bullet efficiency. The .308 is NOT efficient.
Just a heads up for PH builders.
Genuine Pecar scope with mounts for sale:
http://www.helstongunsmiths.com/def...93&ID3=407&ID4=1693&CB=10/27/2023+10:03:50+AM
Genuine Pecar scope with mounts for sale:
http://www.helstongunsmiths.com/def...93&ID3=407&ID4=1693&CB=10/27/2023+10:03:50+AM
