Picking up a 300WM and questioning the S20

[Oddball Six]

I am ready to pull the trigger (groan) on a budget 300WM build. I'd like to pick up the rifle (stock, action, Barrel, ready to shoot but not optic or rings) for about $1500. After shopping around on Eurooptic, I was thinking the Sako S20. Until I started tooling around on the 'hide in depth and digging into old threads.

Sounds like it's a hit or miss roulette on whether it will shoot.

So - get a Bergara B-14 and blueprint at LRI, a Bergara premier off the shelf, or get the Sako S20 and $300 in ammo in the same bucket of money?

95% range and open lands target shooting, 5% elk at 7000 feet on BLM land.

 

[FuhQ]

Get one of these...

Remington 700 SS 5-R Stainless/Black/Green Bolt Action Rifle – 300 Winchester Magnum – 24in

Remington 700 SS 5-R Stainless/Black/Green Bolt Action Rifle – 300 Winchester Magnum – 24in - Built off the legendary 700 action, the Remington 700 5-R sets the benchmark for accuracy and durability. Much like M-24, the barrel is cold hammer forged and features 5-R rifling. The 5R rifling...

www.sportsmans.com

And throw in one of these before doing anything...

TriggerTech Primary Trigger Curved Bow Remington 700 Single Stage Bolt

The Rem 700 Primary is the ideal upgrade to improve accuracy and precision on any right-handed Remington 700 model rifle. Featuring TriggerTech's...

www.midwayusa.com

You will be amazed what they will do in stock form. It will be the most accurate factory .300WM you've ever shot. The only thing I recommend is fully removing the gun from the stock, cleaning everything, re-torquing the action screws to 65 in-lbs. and scrubbing out the bore and dry-patching before shooting. Same thing I do for every new rifle.

I bought my Gen1 26" 5R .300WM over 10 years ago, and never shot it, as I had no reason to. Had plenty of other big 7mm's and big .30's in the safe, and .300WM was just something of little interest for me.

I decided to go out to the range this weekend, and take it along and finally light off a loaded round and warm up the bore, and sight in the scope. Mind you, I bought this gun over 10 years ago, never shot it, had my gunsmith thread the barrel, and then a few months ago I swapped the trigger for a TriggerTech Primary, as I was going ahead and doing for ALL of my 700's while the triggers were on huge sale at Midway.

So, it to recap, it has a TriggerTech Primary, a newly-threaded muzzle, and has been pulled apart, cleaned, re-torqued to 65 in-lbs., and the bore scrubbed... Took it the range with a completely thrown-together random ladder test loads in brand new 30 year old brass (FC 93 Match) that I loaded up a decade ago, and this was the first 3 groups it produced from a brand new barrel with zero break-in, and had only been shot 5 times for sight-in. I was also using my new TBAC Magnus HUB on the end with the Otter Creek Labs ZR0-DTA 5/8-24 mount in it.

Ignore the black dots, I was re-using targets from zero'ing the scope, instead of wasting a whole new one, so I edited in dots over the previous shots. Also, with magnum cartridges I only shoot 3-shot groups for barrel & throat conservation.

This is the very first group after sighting it in...



This is the 2nd group...



Third group...

 

[Oddball Six]

Get one of these...

Remington 700 SS 5-R Stainless/Black/Green Bolt Action Rifle – 300 Winchester Magnum – 24in

Remington 700 SS 5-R Stainless/Black/Green Bolt Action Rifle – 300 Winchester Magnum – 24in - Built off the legendary 700 action, the Remington 700 5-R sets the benchmark for accuracy and durability. Much like M-24, the barrel is cold hammer forged and features 5-R rifling. The 5R rifling...

www.sportsmans.com

[Snip]

It's funny that you recommend that - my very first rifle after lurking on the 'hide oh so many years ago was a Remington 700 5R. At the time I did some competitive handgun and was interested in getting into distance shooting and eventually maybe 3-gun competition. Until kids anyway

That first 5R in .308 was an amazing platform and I enjoyed it for years - not least because it was so reliable and accurate out of the box that it took away excuses and forced me to focus on fundamentals. Then when I was ready to move on, I sold it to a buddy who still has it and still says its the best rifle he's ever owned.

This is probably ignorance on my part - but with the number of times that Remington has been transformed in bankruptcy and lawsuits, I'm surprised to find out the 5R is still produced or sold somewhere.

The running tally on the poll so far is split evenly between 'do something else', get a bergara premier, and get the S20 anyway and go shoot it.

 

[b6graham]

before someone else does...tikka...quite a few in stock at eurooptic and at the same price of an R700 i'd never spend $500 on, let alone $1100 in 2023.

FuhQ has one from an era when the R700 and 5R was actually a decent rifle. but there's a reason you don't see much on them anymore especially compared to tikka

i'd also be considering the Seekins PH2 at a very slightly higher pricepoint

if i did go for a bergara i highly doubt i'd spend money on having LRI work on it

one other thing to consider is what you plan to shoot through your 300WM and be mindful of COAL and reloading if you want to shoot heavies

 

[Lightning8]

Just picked up a Tikka T3 300 Win Mag like new used locally from individual. $600. Bought for Tikka action and mag bolt actually for semi-custom build. See Tikka T3/X 300 Win Mag, 7RM, and occasionally 300 WSM deals regularly from locals.

I would buy a Bergara Premier before I would buy a Bergara "regular" and pay $ to have it blueprinted. (Typo)

 

[Lightning8]

no one blueprints tikkas, or even does any work to them besides maybe a trigger spring

My bad meant - Bergara. Yes, you are correct

 

[FuhQ]

It's funny that you recommend that - my very first rifle after lurking on the 'hide oh so many years ago was a Remington 700 5R. At the time I did some competitive handgun and was interested in getting into distance shooting and eventually maybe 3-gun competition. Until kids anyway

That first 5R in .308 was an amazing platform and I enjoyed it for years - not least because it was so reliable and accurate out of the box that it took away excuses and forced me to focus on fundamentals. Then when I was ready to move on, I sold it to a buddy who still has it and still says its the best rifle he's ever owned.

This is probably ignorance on my part - but with the number of times that Remington has been transformed in bankruptcy and lawsuits, I'm surprised to find out the 5R is still produced or sold somewhere.

The running tally on the poll so far is split evenly between 'do something else', get a bergara premier, and get the S20 anyway and go shoot it.

The 5R is still built to M24 specs and tolerances. They will still be shooters. My newest 700 5R .260 was built in 2016, at the peak of shitty Remington QC issues, and it’s still a tack-driver. The 5R barrels are just magic. They are nothing more than M24 blanks that Remington turns down into a Sendero/Varmint contour, and then puts them on civilian production actions. The one I linked you to is a Gen1 (the good era). You can tell a Gen1 from the brushed stainless finish and green/black HS Precision stock. The newer Gen2 rifles are black cerakoted actions & barrels, with FDE tan & black HS stocks. It’s very easy to spot a Gen1 vs. a newer Gen2.

 

[FuhQ]

FuhQ has one from an era when the R700 and 5R was actually a decent rifle. but there's a reason you don't see much on them.

Actually, I have several. My first was a 2011 10th Anniversary (of the 5R) 24” .308 Win. I still have it, but I’ve had it cut down to 22” and threaded for a can. It has always, and continues to shoot lights-out. Actually, the target in my avatar was 24 shots from that rifle in a hot-lap with no breaks. It was under a 1.2” group. That barrel would’ve fried bacon when I was done, but no stringing, and it kept stacking.

 

[supercorndogs]

What in the actual Fudd is going on in here? Remington turning down m24 barrels to make 5rs.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I wouldn't want an S20 in 300WM for a rifle that is mostly a range rifle, nor would I want to carry a 300WM that will be a good range rifle at 7K'.

I would evaluate what you really need and want it a rifle. You can absolutely put a rifle setup together that will be a decent LR rifle and not too much of a pig to pack in high elevation and capable of taking elk, but it isn't going to be in 300WM. I'd take that 5R 308 you had with an optic and mount setup thats not stupid heavy over any of your options. Sounds like your buddy probably wouldn't want to sell it back to you but the good news is they made more than one and I haven't seen one that wasn't a shooter, all of mine were hammers. The 20" threaded 308 would be a good option for an all around rifle that with a brake or can spun on wouldn't beat the shit out of you, while still being not too heavy to carry.

Or if you like the S20 buy it in something like 6.5 Creemoor or 308 that's perfectly capable of taking elk to 500 yards while being a better range rifle.

 

[Oddball Six]

The 20" threaded 308 would be a good option for an all around rifle that with a brake or can spun on wouldn't beat the shit out of you, while still being not too heavy to carry.

My most favored rifle right now is my Tikka T3 CTR in .308. It's a tack driver and does what I need it to do.

Let the record show, my wife finally said yes to a(nother) rifle buy, and the guys on the 'hide tried to tell me I don't need one....

More seriously, fair advice. I'd still like to have something with a bit more power behind it at distance without beating up the wallet too bad because I am blessed with good open space shooting on the Colorado high plains and/or a quick mountain drive, but will give this some thought.

 

[cooper_257]

I would spend a few more bucks and get a Seekins PH2. the Seekins are a lot of rifle for the money and If you happen to get one that won't shoot they will take care of you unlike many of the other manufacturers.

 

[XP1K]

The 5R is still built to M24 specs and tolerances. They will still be shooters. My newest 700 5R .260 was built in 2016, at the peak of shitty Remington QC issues, and it’s still a tack-driver. The 5R barrels are just magic. They are nothing more than M24 blanks that Remington turns down into a Sendero/Varmint contour, and then puts them on civilian production actions. The one I linked you to is a Gen1 (the good era). You can tell a Gen1 from the brushed stainless finish and green/black HS Precision stock. The newer Gen2 rifles are black cerakoted actions & barrels, with FDE tan & black HS stocks. It’s very easy to spot a Gen1 vs. a newer Gen2.

If that's the case with the gen2 rifles, a friend of mine has one in 300winmag. It hammers pretty good for a stock rifle. He did put a jewell trigger in it.

There was a brand new one here in the px a short while ago.

 

[FuhQ]

If that's the case with the gen2 rifles, a friend of mine has one in 300winmag. It hammers pretty good for a stock rifle. He did put a jewell trigger in it.

There was a brand new one here in the px a short while ago.

If what's the case? Yes, the 5R Milspec models are true 5R M24 barrels with a different contour for civilian sales. Contrary to Fuddlore, they are NOT reject M24 barrels, they are new production straight out of the same production line, and recontoured to a Sendero/Varmint profile, instead of the heavier M24 contour. And yes, they are tack-drivers. I've never seen one that wouldn't shoot ragged-hole groups with handloads. Also, they tend to not be as ammo picky from my experiences. And like all Remington 700's built in the last 20 years, the factory lawyer-proof X-Turd Pro trigger needs to be removed immediately upon purchase and thrown in the trash, and swapped with an aftermarket unit. I like TriggerTechs, but Jewells are also solid units.

If you are referring to the difference between a Gen1 and Gen2, yes, they are very distinguishable based simple on a quick glance.

Gen 1 5R Milspecs look like this (bright brushed stainless finish, jeweled bolts, some are threaded some aren't, w/ a green & black web finish HS Precision stock)...



Gen 2 5R Milspecs look like this (black cerakote finish, fluted & threaded barrels, w/ a FDE & black web finish HS Precision stock)...

 

[FuhQ]

What in the actual Fudd is going on in here? Remington turning down m24 barrels to make 5rs.

They are...That's the assembly line the barrels come from. You might want to do some research before calling bullshit.

 

[b6graham]

except for the hammer forging part versus cut rifled Rock barrels on the m24s

even basic google and remington employees can't come to any conclusion on the early 2010 5Rs with fuddlore saying they're M24 barrels and most others laughing at that 'fact'

 

[ALShooter]

Tikka T3x Super Varmint Green Cerakote Bolt Action Rifle - 300 Winchester Magnum - 23.7in

Tikka T3x Super Varmint Green Cerakote Bolt Action Rifle - 300 Winchester Magnum - 23.7in - If youre looking for a true vermin control or long-distance tool, look no further. When Tikka was talking about SUPER varmint, they were meaning it. Tikka T3x Super Varmint offers wide range of adjustable...

www.sportsmans.com

 

[supercorndogs]

They are...That's the assembly line the barrels come from. You might want to do some research before calling bullshit.

Where do they get their 5r .224 and .264 barrels?

Nothing really wrong with remington barrels but to pretend like the 5r is the next coming of Jesus, na it's another POS remington 700.

 

[FuhQ]

Where do they get their 5r .224 and .264 barrels?

Nothing really wrong with remington barrels but to pretend like the 5r is the next coming of Jesus, na it's another POS remington 700.

Nobody said the .224 and .264 barrels were from M24's... The .30 caliber barrels are. Don't be a retard. As for the next coming of Jesus, they're better than any shitty ass Savage you shoot. I'll keep shooting my POS 700's compared to some dumpster-fire abortion Savage any day.

 

[iceng]

Howa 1500. Cheap, reliable, accurate. Timely make triggers for them, there's stock and chassis options, and leaves extra cash for scope or ammo.

Tikka t3 have short mag lengths. It annoys me more than it should.

 

[FuhQ]

except for the hammer forging part versus cut rifled Rock barrels on the m24s

even basic google and remington employees can't come to any conclusion on the early 2010 5Rs with fuddlore saying they're M24 barrels and most others laughing at that 'fact'

Actually they were... The 5R Milspec model has been around since about 2001... The first few years they WERE using reject M24 barrels that didn't pass AMU QC/QA, and it was only offered in .308 Win. Then they started using new production recontoured M24 barrels around 2006/2007 due to increasing popularity of the 5R Milspec model. It started becoming a higher production count limited run around 2010/2011...They ran the production once a year. When they were gone, they were gone. Then for a while they started offering them as a full-time production model, and they would produce them in 2 runs per year, when the Gen2 came out. Then Remington shit the bed thanks to Freedom Group, and bad litigation deals, and yall know the rest...

Don't believe everything you read on Google...

"Built off the legendary 700 action, the Remington 700 5-R sets the benchmark for accuracy and durability. Much like M-24, the barrel is cold hammer forged and features 5-R rifling. The 5R rifling profile increases barrel life expectancy, accuracy and creates less fouling and bullet deformation over time. Whether you’re a benchrest shooter or longtime hunter, look no further for better reliability and precision."

 

[FuhQ]

REMINGTON 700 MILSPEC 5R - Sniper Central

The mil-spec 5R rifles are extremely popular, let us see why…

snipercentral.com

The way the milspec came about, as told to me by a Remington LE division employee, was a byproduct of the M24 production line. There are specific tolerances that each M24 Barrel must achieve in order to pass inspection. As is normal in any production line some of the barrels will not meet those specifications and Remington would toss those barrels into the “no-go” pile and discard them (I am not sure where they used to go from there). It turns out that someone had the idea of taking those barrels that did not pass inspection and re-contour the barrel to the standard Remington heavy barrel contour, mount it to a Remington 700 stainless action, and call it a “Milspec” rifle. Since there are not a large number of barrels that do not pass inspection the rifle were considered a limited edition rifle.

 

[supercorndogs]

Nobody said the .224 and .264 barrels were from M24's... The .30 caliber barrels are. Don't be a retard. As for the next coming of Jesus, they're better than any shitty ass Savage you shoot. I'll keep shooting my POS 700's compared to some dumpster-fire abortion Savage any day.

So they source different barrels for their mil spec 5r rifles that aren't 30cal.

Savage. Are you trying to be the fclassparadise of the Remington 700, best factory rifle..

I will direct you to the second sentence in the description from Remington you posted. i will also direct you to the fact Remington doesn't call it a "mil spec 5r." They call it a 5R. I wonder if thats a clue. Well now its called the 700 long range.

 

[XP1K]

If what's the case? Yes, the 5R Milspec models are true 5R M24 barrels with a different contour for civilian sales. Contrary to Fuddlore, they are NOT reject M24 barrels, they are new production straight out of the same production line, and recontoured to a Sendero/Varmint profile, instead of the heavier M24 contour. And yes, they are tack-drivers. I've never seen one that wouldn't shoot ragged-hole groups with handloads. Also, they tend to not be as ammo picky from my experiences. And like all Remington 700's built in the last 20 years, the factory lawyer-proof X-Turd Pro trigger needs to be removed immediately upon purchase and thrown in the trash, and swapped with an aftermarket unit. I like TriggerTechs, but Jewells are also solid units.

If you are referring to the difference between a Gen1 and Gen2, yes, they are very distinguishable based simple on a quick glance.

Gen 1 5R Milspecs look like this (bright brushed stainless finish, jeweled bolts, some are threaded some aren't, w/ a green & black web finish HS Precision stock)...

View attachment 8153689

Gen 2 5R Milspecs look like this (black cerakote finish, fluted & threaded barrels, w/ a FDE & black web finish HS Precision stock)...

View attachment 8153690

I was referring to the gen1 gen2 difference. I didn't know that. The gen1 is a better looking rifle in my opinion. Gen2 is probably more practical.

I wonder if they use a saami chamber or something else ?
My friends rifle is somewhat picky on ammo. He's yet to find a factory load with a 180 that it likes. It's preferred ammo is 150gr Norma.

He doesn't load his own but I do some reloading for him for another rifle he has. Haven't played with the 5r yet.

 

[FredHammer]

If you can operate:

torque wrenches
Hex wrenches
Table mounted barrel vise

You can build whatever you want and it's stupid fucking easy, if it weren't they wouldn't let me do it.
If you select the parts smartly, you will have a rig that far surpasses the performance per penny of any factory offering. You can even have multiple stocks/chassis to drop the barreled action in per intended use. I'd suggest a Rem 700 LA clone action. Zermatt comes to mind.

I'm about to build a 300WM medium range hunting rig. I have a Savage Elite Precision 110 LA on the shelf and a 24" Savage factory take off barrel sitting around doing nothing but nagging me to make them into something. LOL

 

[FuhQ]

So they source different barrels for their mil spec 5r rifles that aren't 30cal.

Savage. Are you trying to be the fclassparadise of the Remington 700, best factory rifle..

I will direct you to the second sentence in the description from Remington you posted. i will also direct you to the fact Remington doesn't call it a "mil spec 5r." They call it a 5R. I wonder if thats a clue. Well now its called the 700 long range.

The 700 Long Range is not the same rifle, not even close. It has a standard 6-groove button-rifled barrel and a B&C Medalist stock. You really don’t have a clue what you’re taking shit about, and it’s hilarious.

No, I’m not saying the 700 is the best factory rifle made. I’m saying the 700 5R Milspec is one of the most accurate models of rifle available of the shelf.

You’re a joke on display for everyone, and so is your lack of firearms knowledge.

 

[FuhQ]

I was referring to the gen1 gen2 difference. I didn't know that. The gen1 is a better looking rifle in my opinion. Gen2 is probably more practical.

I wonder if they use a saami chamber or something else ?
My friends rifle is somewhat picky on ammo. He's yet to find a factory load with a 180 that it likes. It's preferred ammo is 150gr Norma.

He doesn't load his own but I do some reloading for him for another rifle he has. Haven't played with the 5r yet.

Yes, all factory production Remington rifles are supposed to have SAAMI spec chambers.

Factory ammo is hit-or-miss with any rifle. If his is a .308 Win, tell him to try a box of Hornady TAP (red box) 168 BTHP ammo, or Federal Gold Medal Match 168. If it’s a .300 WinMag, try Hornady Precision Hunter.

 

[bigbuckslayer3]

Just my opinion but the factory options for me would be Tikka Or Seekings.
Or buy used and have a custom barrel and be happy.......

 

[supercorndogs]

The 700 Long Range is not the same rifle, not even close. It has a standard 6-groove button-rifled barrel and a B&C Medalist stock. You really don’t have a clue what you’re taking shit about, and it’s hilarious.

No, I’m not saying the 700 is the best factory rifle made. I’m saying the 700 5R Milspec is one of the most accurate models of rifle available of the shelf.

You’re a joke on display for everyone, and so is your lack of firearms knowledge.

Model 700 Long Range | Remington

26" heavy contour, 5R barrel with matte finish, perfectly matched to its high-velocity caliber offerings

Wrong again. Not the subject of the thread. Not even a rifle the op asked about. You should probably continue your fuddery in your own thread.

Remington uses hammer forged barrels.

You are precisely why I don't listen to the retards behind the counter at gun shops. You spread bullshit with such conviction.

 

[FuhQ]

Model 700 Long Range | Remington

26" heavy contour, 5R barrel with matte finish, perfectly matched to its high-velocity caliber offerings

Wrong again. Not the subject of the thread. Not even a rifle the op asked about. You should probably continue your fuddery in your own thread.

Remington uses hammer forged barrels.

You are precisely why I don't listen to the retards behind the counter at gun shops. You spread bullshit with such conviction.

That is the brand new version they just released last year. In 2022 they changed all rifle barrels to 5R rifling…Every model. But for the past 10 years prior, before Remington became “Rem Arms” in 2022, the Long Range model had a standard 26” 6-groove button rifled chrome moly barrel, and a Bell & Carlson Medalist stock.

I “spread bullshit”, but you don’t know a goddamn thing about the intricacies of what techniques were used prior to the last 10 months, because descriptions have changed for your Google search proving you right, but for only less than 1 year after the company completely revamped everything in their production processes. The last 10 years of the Long Range had 6-groove button barrels like all Remington rifles (except those designated otherwise) for the last 75 years, until Remington got bought out last year. Just because something changed in the last 10 months, doesn’t mean That it was always that way. Do your research before accusing people is spreading bullshit.

 

[Oddball Six]

Thank you everyone for your input. The majority voted for "something else you dolt" and indeed that's the direction I ended up with.

Through this thread I ended up getting connected with another 'hide member with a long history here who had a forlorn and lonely Bergara premier that would let me get me going "tomorrow" with a proven platform and without taking on the uncertainty around the S20 barrel lottery.

My Tikka CTR in 308 will remain my hobby horse when at short distance, and then I'll be working loads and enjoying 300WM for distance.

 

[ToddM]

I would spend a few more bucks and get a Seekins PH2. the Seekins are a lot of rifle for the money and If you happen to get one that won't shoot they will take care of you unlike many of the other manufacturers.

This would be my answer, of course I'm a bit bias as my s20 in 300wm is at Beretta right now for accuracy issues and feeding problems. That said I've seen a few at the range in various calibers and most of them shot really well, in fact the only one I've seen that wouldn't was another 300wm. It does seem like there's a lot of hit and miss accuracy in the s20's more-so than Sako usually has, and the long action's seem to be the worst, especially with the feeding issue. I've seen three or four 6.5's at the range and they all were hammers.

If I had it to do over again I'd have bought the PH2, a bit more $, but just seems to be a better platform for hunting. The action on the s20 is great, trigger is really nice, but the stock is super creaky/cheap plastic feeling, it's heavy for a hunting option, and there's the feeding/accuracy issue lottery. Also getting service from Beretta has been like pulling teeth......this literally started back in early March. I love my TRG, but after this I don't think I'd buy another Sako just based on trying to get assistance from Beretta.