Pistol ar....lvpo vs red dot

Ahogue

Gunny Sergeant
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Oct 28, 2019
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Port byron ,il
Pistol build ive been working on for a little while is finally finished up and im just in the throws of debating red dot (well green is preferable) over an lvpo

Looked at mro and aems

But I currently run a psa special price strike eagle 1-8 on my rifle and just having a hard time not just going that route again on the Pistol other than weight

Now not like its a work rifle or anything other than range and shtf stuff but hard time making the choice

So let's hear some thoughts
 

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I have both and both have their places. For compact size and weight the red dot is hard to beat. That’s what’s on my 11.5”. My 16” truck gun wears a Burris RT6.

I say if it’s a SHTF gun and you plan to shoot to say 300-500 yards go lpvo route. You can always turn to 1. Hard to turn dot to 6 or 8 and if you run a magnifier you’re basically to a lpvo in size anyways

As mentioned above the eye relief may be annoying. I personally can’t shoot a scope on a pistol brace setup. I SBR’d mine for the reason that a brace just wasn’t comfortable. But I have a 15.5” LOP.
 
Funny eye relief is mentioned because right after I posted this I set my stock to the max lop as what the pistol has (also has mini buffer setup) and came to the same conclusion that unless I ran the lvpo in a ridiculous forward offset I wasn't going to make it work

So red dot it is
 
As you've discovered, for a pistol you're going to want a dot. So the question becomes what dot? I would say a dot with a smaller footprint - so no to an Aimpoint Pro, M4, etc. The Aimpoint T-2 gets a lot of love on this forum but it is very pricey. I have no experience with one so I can't say if they are worth the money. I happen to really like the Eotechs, but if battery life is an issue look elsewhere. I also own one of the older Trijicon MRO's (which does come in green). However, the non-HD's version definitely has parallax issues. It's never been a problem for me, but I shoot a bunch and by now have a very consistent mount so my dot stays pretty centered. Also, I think the non-HD versions are getting hard to find. People seem to like the newer HD version of this optic, which apparently does not suffer from the same parallax issues. But you start getting into Aimpoint T-2 territory on price.

And then there's Holosun. There are a ton of different models and they generally make a solid red/green dot for the price. However, based on personal experience, there is at least one model that's problematic. The 403/503 models suffer from a design flaw. If you are shooting with the sun behind you, you will not just get a red dot and a clear window. You will also get red streaks/lines, which basically makes the dot unusable.
 
I have a couple SBR's (don't care for the feel of a brace) and I have tried both a LPVO and dot. I much prefer a dot with magnifier. I run Eotech EXPS 2-0 on all my AR15's and have a G45 I move around to the rifle I use if I am doing any extended ranges. I found I was either at 1 or 8 with the LPVO. Never between. So to reduce weight and general mass especially if I am not using the G45 I got rid of it.
I do use a 1-8 on my AR10, but will eventually put a normal scope on it like an Eotech Vudu 5-25.
Again, same issue with where set the scope. I find my self on 8 more than anything else and at times wish I could have 12.
 
I have both and both have their places. For compact size and weight the red dot is hard to beat. That’s what’s on my 11.5”. My 16” truck gun wears a Burris RT6.

I say if it’s a SHTF gun and you plan to shoot to say 300-500 yards go lpvo route. You can always turn to 1. Hard to turn dot to 6 or 8 and if you run a magnifier you’re basically to a lpvo in size anyways

As mentioned above the eye relief may be annoying. I personally can’t shoot a scope on a pistol brace setup. I SBR’d mine for the reason that a brace just wasn’t comfortable. But I have a 15.5” LOP.
I’ve run red dots and I’ve run lpvos and I’m going with lpvos on all my defensive rifles.

They’re just as fast as a red dot for me and I don’t feel the weight is an issue. Maybe I’ll change my mind next time I’m trying to evade a zombie horde.

Besides speed and weight for defense purposes, I just get a lot more enjoyment from a gun with some magnification. I can enjoy it at 50, 100, and more ranges and test my abilities rather than whether I can just hit something.

I know I can hit a 17” target at 200 yards with a red dot. But that’s incredibly boring to me. I just want to be able to enjoy the guns and ammo that I’ve spent my money on, and an LPVO is infinitely more useful for that.
 
I have the Aimpoint pro and duty rds. The duty rds would be my choice here

If your wanting to cheap out on a range toy the Sig Romeo 5 has been a good option for me. I have 3-4 of them and bought them when they were around $120

The duty seems like a no brainer here. I traded away my pro for a Primary Arms plx-c 1-8, but the next Aimpoint I buy will be a duty.
 
Depends on what you’re using it for.
2 MOA red dot on a 223 works beautiful out to 600yds. And works even better if you can see your splash.
Yeah, nothing better than a sbr, a brace, and an unmagnified sight for those 600 yard shots. 🙄

Please, come back and tell us all how if we can’t regularly make hits at 600 yards with that setup, then we nEeD mOaR tRaInInG.
 
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As a general rule I hate sig. That being said, their Romeo 4xt pro is my favorite small (t2 footprint) red dot. Dot is crisp, can swap to reticles with large circles and multiple dots if you want for a 300 blackout or whatever, and the glass is super clear under night vision.

Just throwing in my recommendation.

Pm me if you want
 
Yeah, nothing better than a sbr, a brace, and an unmagnified sight for those 600 yard shots. 🙄

Please, come back and tell us all how if we can’t regularly make hits at 600 yards with that setup, then we nEeD mOaR tRaInInG.
Well wizenheimer, I was merely expressing the fact that a high quality 2moa red dot is lethal at that distance and more than adequate.
So if the OP is shooting less than that, long gun or SBR, a quality red dot is more than enough.


And ya, I regularly hit 600 yds with my 11” 300BO with only a red dot.
YOU do need more training
 
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Well wizenheimer, I was merely expressing the fact that a high quality 2moa red dot is lethal at that distance and more than adequate.
So if the OP is shooting less than that, long gun or SBR, a quality red dot is more than enough.


And ya, I regularly hit 600 yds with my 11” 300BO with only a red dot.
YOU do need more training
2moa dot at 600 yards is 12" sure its lethal but that would be the same as using a 16-24x scope to shoot 10 yards... it works sure. My red dots at 100yds work but beyond that would be guessing.

What i've found I like the most is a 5x prism scope with the dot with the circle around it. Illuminated it can be used as a red dot at closer range and you can actually see your target at 100+ yards. And they are small.
 
Pistol build ive been working on for a little while is finally finished up and im just in the throws of debating red dot (well green is preferable) over an lvpo

Looked at mro and aems

But I currently run a psa special price strike eagle 1-8 on my rifle and just having a hard time not just going that route again on the Pistol other than weight

Now not like its a work rifle or anything other than range and shtf stuff but hard time making the choice

So let's hear some thoughts
Well, it depends on your intended use. If 90% of your shooting is going to be within 50 yards or so, that's a no brainer. Go with a red dot. As your use case extends beyond 50 yards, magnification becomes more and more useful and in some cases, necessary.

If all you want is something to shoot at well defined larger targets on a flat range where environmentals don't play much of a factor, then you can get away with a red dot.

If you're going to be dealing with things like environmentals where the light is messing with your eyes or there is heavy vegetation and you need to identify what you're shooting at, magnification becomes more important. The more difficult the shot, the more handy magnification becomes.

As a practical matter, magnifiers are great for extending the range of a red dot, but are far from ideal. Even a mediocre LPVO will far out perform the best magnifier in terms of magnification.

I run two rigs with a similar intended purpose, which is to be able to effectively engage target at distances to 400 yards. On one, I run an ACOG/RDS stack. On the other, I run a 1-8x NX8. I've found them to work well in most situations. Of the two, I prefer the ACOG setup. It's small, light and the glass is super good. I usually grab the NX8 setup when I know we're gonna be taking more low percentage shots.

Well wizenheimer, I was merely expressing the fact that a high quality 2moa red dot is lethal at that distance and more than adequate.
So if the OP is shooting less than that, long gun or SBR, a quality red dot is more than enough.


And ya, I regularly hit 600 yds with my 11” 300BO with only a red dot.
YOU do need more training
Sorry, Im gonna call BS on this. Maybe on a flat range, on large targets in ideal conditions, you might get lucky and hit the target 2 times out of 20, but unless you are very talented, I can't see holding around 10.5 mils of elevation and something around 1/3 of that in windage with a 2 moa red dot with any sort of consistency. This is one of those things I'd need to see to believe.
 
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Well, it depends on your intended use. If 90% of your shooting is going to be within 50 yards or so, that's a no brainer. Go with a red dot. As your use case extends beyond 50 yards, magnification becomes more and more useful and in some cases, necessary.

If all you want is something to shoot at well defined larger targets on a flat range where environmentals don't play much of a factor, then you can get away with a red dot.

If you're going to be dealing with things like environmentals where the light is messing with your eyes or there is heavy vegetation and you need to identify what you're shooting at, magnification becomes more important. The more difficult the shot, the more handy magnification becomes.

As a practical matter, magnifiers are great for extending the range of a red dot, but are far from ideal. Even a mediocre LPVO will far out perform the best magnifier in terms of magnification.

I run two rigs with a similar intended purpose, which is to be able to effectively engage target at distances to 400 yards. On one, I run an ACOG/RDS stack. On the other, I run a 1-8x NX8. I've found them to work well in most situations. Of the two, I prefer the ACOG setup. It's small, light and the glass is super good. I usually grab the NX8 setup when I know we're gonna be taking more low percentage shots.


Sorry, Im gonna call BS on this. Maybe on a flat range, on large targets in ideal conditions, you might get lucky and hit the target 2 times out of 20, but unless you are very talented, I can't see holding around 10.5 mils of elevation and something around 1/3 of that in windage with a 2 moa red dot with any sort of consistency. This is one of those things I'd need to see to believe.
Not agreeing with him, but I'll say that in perfect conditions, with no wind, great ammo, the dot turned down so dim you almost can't see it, a sufficiently big target with the sun on it, a tree or other very defined feature way behind/above the target with a big branch at just the right spot to use as an aiming point, and dry dusty dirt all around and behind the target to spot misses, it can be done pretty regularly.
Remove any one of those ideal conditions and it gets really hard really fast.
 
I’m old school. Was trained using iron sights only.
Became extremely proficient at hitting man sized targets at 400yds with just irons.
A perfect, no blooming 2 MOA red dot like an Aimpoint Micro on a lower setting makes it even easier than irons. Especially if you can see your splash.
And if your zeroed at 36yrds, it’s even easier. Not easy by any means, but easier.

Here’s a nice vid. And remember, he is using a cheap red dot that I believe is 3.5moa and has blooming issues.

 
Since the OP said this is a SHTF gun, a red dot with Absolute co-witness back ups is a no brainer.
It’s ok if you don’t agree or don’t believe me. My feelings aren’t hurt.
Cheers
 
Since the OP said this is a SHTF gun, a red dot with Absolute co-witness back ups is a no brainer.
It’s ok if you don’t agree or don’t believe me. My feelings aren’t hurt.
Cheers
I suppose it depends on what the OP wants and what his definition of a SHTF rig is. If in your zombie fantasy, your targets are going to be standing out in the open, without regard for their safety or that the opposition will only be shooting at you from within 100 yards and not using cover then yes. A red dot is fine. They typically have a l9ng battery life and are rugged.

Still, I have had mishaps that rendered a red dot unusable. To me, that one rig needs to be as tough as possible. To me, that means an ACOG.