Please explain .22 hoarding to me????

#51
some here refer to this disorder as "prepared")

Seeing how you are refering to me, I feel I should make something clear. When I say prepared, I'm not talking about an attack from 1 million zombies. I'm talking about going through the whole shortage thing again when it happens. I plan to always have a bunch of everything I need so I don't have to be without in difficult times.

You said in your initial post that all you want is to be able to get a few hundred rounds to take your kid shooting. Everyone here knows you can do this anytime you feel like it. Heck, some would probably offer to give, or sell you a few hundred rounds if you asked, including me.

I don't believe people are shooting dramatically more, so the only alternative explanation is that they are sequestering more ammo than they need.

You don't really know this, just assuming you do. I'm a new to rimfire shooter who shoots about 300 rounds every weekend. and I'm sure that I'm not the only new shooter. The part that really bothers me about your post is where you assume to know what others need. No one goes around telling car collectors like Jay Leno that he has too many cars when he can only drive one at a time.

It seems from the replys on you post that the answer to your question about how others feel is that hoarding doesn't bother them.

Oh, in case you don't know this. Your government hasn't disarmed it's citizens because there is an organization called the NRA that helps to keep that form happening. Our elected officials are there to help us, not tell us what is ok according to them for us to own, so stop inviting those ideas. Let me know if you still need ammo.
 
#52
While I love to shoot the "big" guns $1-5 dollars a shot is not great fun. Shooting 4 boxes of 22lr is still fun and sometimes more challenging. BTW I bought a 5k round case of wolf match target a couple years ago and it ain't light. No ones gonna be hauling that around bugging out
 
#53
Here is what I think you're missing...
So you find something cheap that you know for a fact will be worth 10-15 times the price later. How dumb would it be to not buy as much as you could afford? Apply your logic to money. Why would you get more than you absolutely need?

It's an investment.

Point two. Do you really think you'll be able to buy .22 ammo in ten years? That would be ridiculous to assume so. I want my children to be able to learn to shoot. They won't if I'm too near sided to think ahead a little.

ace of hearts said:
There has been a lot of good discussion in this thread, stuff like the above quote does not qualify however. I am not just crying about it, I have spent more money and time than I should on gun related hobbies this year, gap-10, aw-ax, reloading stuff etc., and as others have pointed out, I can order .22 over the internet. I just think stockpiling .22 has gone way overboard.

If you have devoted your free time to mastering the .22 rimfire and have always used 2k rounds a week then I am not talking about you; I hope that you continue to enjoy your hobby. I think that there are a lot of fools however that have never had more that a 500 round brick in their possession who now feel compelled to accumulate 10k rounds in their basement that they will never use (most of these people are probably not hide members as we tend to actually use our ammo).

I am obviously pro gun rights and concerned about unwanted government sanctions, but the government as far as I can tell has never proposed banning ammunition of any caliber and .22 will be the last to go. Thus while the government has not taken anything away from me, my fellow shooting hobbyists have created an inconvenient, senseless and expensive ammo shortage. Our fellow shooters should be cooperative in preventing government enforced shortages rather than causing an analogous problem in which we are our own enemy and selfishly stockpiling ammo. The extent of hoarding borders on paranoid delusion (some here refer to this disorder as "prepared")

For the first 30 years of my shooting life I can never remember a time before now when there was not enough .22 ammo to go around, everyone had as much as they wanted to shoot, and there was no need to hoard. I don't believe people are shooting dramatically more, so the only alternative explanation is that they are sequestering more ammo than they need.

On top of all this is the fact that immense quantities of .22 serve no purpose (again unless you recreationally shoot large quantities). .22 is a reasonable hunting/survival round, but unless you are a terrible shot, you could hunt for a year on a brick or two. The .22 is however a terrible defensive round; if you are planning on repelling the attacking mobs with your 10k stockpile of .22 then your judgement is doubly poor.

I am not whining or crying, just stating my belief that as shooting hobbyists we have senselessly become a thorn in our own side. I find it irritating and wondered if anyone else did...
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#57
The worst part for myself is that I am now not looking for just any kind of ammo, but plated ammo. And not just ANY kind of plated ammo but plated ammo less than 1400fps. My options are horrible, haha. So now in the interest of never-happening-to-me-again, I've backordered multiple cases of ammo. Some may call it hoarding, but I just want to shoot when I WANT TO SHOOT.

BTW my restrictions are due to an AWC Ultra II which they recommend plated, non-hyper velocity ammo be shot through it. Waited on the sumbitch (and ATF) for close to two years and now can't shoot it...
 
#58
ace of hearts said:
I think that there are a lot of fools however that have never had more that a 500 round brick in their possession who now feel compelled to accumulate 10k rounds in their basement that they will never use (most of these people are probably not hide members as we tend to actually use our ammo).
Click to expand...

I did not own a single box of .22 until I moved back to the states. I now almost have a number I am content with. I moved 15 hours away from my family for a job, and my "supply" is no longer "ours", but mine. I hope you do not consider me a fool. I also never owned a rifle until this year, and never owned an aftermarket stock, or a mil/mil ffp scope. Understand that I will probably not use all 10K rounds of it, but worst case scenario, a gun will be worth more with ammo it can shoot. Ask any 5mm rimfire owner.
 
#62
I have 7 grandkids, EVERY ONE of them have learned to shoot at Papa's house, to include the youngest 3yo. Papa can't afford 2-300 5.56 every weekend so they shoot a lot of 22s. 3-4000 rnds would last a few months. When Obama was elected the second time, everyone knew that the 2nd amendment and firearms were going to be one of his primary targets so there were many trying to get some stock before the assault began. Many people finally realized how quickly 5000 rnd case of 22's could go if they continued to shoot at regular pace and those who did not shoot as much realized just how little ammo they had.
I've seen an article in the not-to-distant-past that some military units are using 22s for training but I haven't been able to find the article again so maybe, maybe not but it would contribute in a major way to the lack of availability.
Personally, if ever 22's become available at a reasonable price again, I too will be stocking much deeper than before so until the demand lessens, availability is going to remain low and prices high.
Zombies-no one wants talk about killing human beings during a socio-economic crisis that could easily occur but the Zombie Apocalypse makes it easier to discus things that are pertinent to either; besides, Zombies are just fun!

Mr

ace of hearts said:
Ok, so I am not a competitive rimfire guy, but I do like to plink as much as the next guy. While I think that for the most part the hoarders have gone a bit overboard, I do kind of get the concept of grabbing a couple of AR 15 type rifles since they have recently been on the political chopping block. I can also grasp that by extension some folks may feel the need to stock up on .223, .300 blackout etc. since those rounds feed the "assault rifles", though to my knowledge, no one actually proposed banning any form of ammo. however...
Of all ammunition I would expect that .22 rimfire would be the last thing to banned, it is also produced in the highest quantity. So why is it when all the pistol and centerfire rifle ammo is starting to find its way back onto the shelves do the guys at Academy tell me that keeping any .22 around is impossible?

Who the heck is stockpiling .22 rimfire for the squirrel zombie apocalypse?

I don't get it, I just want to pick up a hundred round pack every now and then to plink a little with my kid...
Click to expand...
 
#65
Sorry to step on toes but just get tired of the " can't find ammo herd " so that's the smart ass reply I posted. And true the "preppers" are not helping any. But it sure is a lot easier to vacuum seal and bury a shitload of .22 And don't remember the cats name but there was a thread here on the hide about the lethality of the lowly .22
 
#66
Twisted .308 said:
Sorry to step on toes but just get tired of the " can't find ammo herd " so that's the smart ass reply I posted. And true the "preppers" are not helping any. But it sure is a lot easier to vacuum seal and bury a shitload of .22 And don't remember the cats name but there was a thread here on the hide about the lethality of the lowly .22
Click to expand...

Was that DesertFrog that did the thread on that?

http://accurateshooter.net/pix/22tacrackx580.jpg

I always enjoyed DesertFrog's posts.
 
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#67
I'd rather not be shot with a 22 Thank you. Look at 22 stingers & 380 ballistics sometime.:eek:

Twisted .308 said:
Sorry to step on toes but just get tired of the " can't find ammo herd " so that's the smart ass reply I posted. And true the "preppers" are not helping any. But it sure is a lot easier to vacuum seal and bury a shitload of .22 And don't remember the cats name but there was a thread here on the hide about the lethality of the lowly .22
Click to expand...
 
#68
Its simple really.
Not everyone owns a .223, 300 blackout, or .308
However EVERY person that owns each of the above calibers also owns at least one 22LR (more than likely more than one).
In addition, alot of people just own 22LRs as their rifle or pistol.
Finally, 22LR ammo has historically been alot cheaper to buy than any of the other rifle calibers so people buy more of it to shoot more.

That's all on top of the hoarding mentality. The average person that owns a 22LR will want to have 1000 rds while a hoarder may want 8000-10000rds
 
#73
Twisted .308 said:
Sorry to step on toes but just get tired of the " can't find ammo herd " so that's the smart ass reply I posted. And true the "preppers" are not helping any. But it sure is a lot easier to vacuum seal and bury a shitload of .22 And don't remember the cats name but there was a thread here on the hide about the lethality of the lowly .22
Click to expand...

Heres a good YouTube video from a few fellows who do decent videos in general:

How far will a .22 LR Kill? - YouTube

- boingk
 
#74
rth1800 said:
I have about the same amount I had prior to the shortage. My way of thinking is that no matter the #, I did not hoard it, I just stocked up on lots that shoot well in my rifles. I have no comprehension of why people shoot rapid fire and waste thousands of rounds of ammo, learning nothing about marksmanship. I shot 5 rounds yesterday and killed 5 squirrels. Ranges from 15 to 82 yards. All headshot. At that rate, I have enough for years. I do shoot a few hundred getting my sight settings for a new rifle/scope/ammo setup. Make notes and then a case last for years.
Click to expand...

This attitude is exactly why I am also not very far into my .22 bullets that have bought as needed. I've always bought them in bulk as I used to go on a daily 40-50 shot walk around our farm where I grew up. I also bought about 10k when I started teaching new shooters the basics of handling a firearm. Students kept not showing up, so I got stuck with them. That's okay though, they keep a long time.

I sold a couple boxes to some friends a few weeks ago because they still couldn't find any for a reasonable price. Within two days they called me and asked for five more boxes. I'll help but I won't support blasters. Especially when I can't get new ones either.
 
#77
Night Eagle said:
This is simple supply an demand. Econ 101. There are many reasons .22 is hard to get. Demand picked up and supply didn't. I have no problem with flippers if someone can buy at regular price and sell at 2 times the money that's smart thinking. Its good business. In fact that's how businesses actually stay in business.

Instead of bitching and moaning about it (I am just as guilty of this), we should be learning and adjusting our spending habits so short term interruptions in the market don't affect us.
Click to expand...

^ This

Some reputable online dealers will let you backorder .22 ammo. I placed a few orders earlier this year that have been filled. It's kind of like Christmas when they show up and it sure beats frequent visits to walmart or other sporting goods stores hoping to find ammo.
 
#78
RMW said:
^ This

Some reputable online dealers will let you backorder .22 ammo. I placed a few orders earlier this year that have been filled. It's kind of like Christmas when they show up and it sure beats frequent visits to walmart or other sporting goods stores hoping to find ammo.
Click to expand...

I would dearly love to hoard a couple of the DTA HTIs you have in the for sale section. Is anyone hoarding 20k .50 cal rounds?
 
#83
Well now. I've been following this thread for awhile so let me see if I've got this right. The guys that had quantities of .22 ammo stored are hoarders. They are a--h---s for doing so. The guys that have none left or available are just poor schmucks that are being screwed over. The guys that are buying it and reselling it can also be thrown in with the hoarders and are even worse because they are making a profit. Is all this about right?

What utter tripe. Most of the so called hoarders are guys like me who bought their stashes well before this recent fiasco. They're guys with enough life experience shooting to know that these shortages occur so when pricing is right they lay in quantities. I have not sold any of mine but I have given some to friends with the qualification that they give me the same quantity in return when availability returns. I'm still shooting bricks with a $9.95 price tag. Going into a history of these shortages to prove that it's worth stashing away isn't necessary but I will give you one example. A few years ago the rising metals commodity market drove a 25# bag of shot to over $50.00 in some locales. When it got back down to where I could buy it for $25.00, I laid in a supply.

As to the guys that are buying and reselling, I think they are actually supplying a service for some. I live in an area with only one large retailer. If they don't have .22 your pretty much SOL. At least you can go on the internet and find some even if the price is stupid. Also keep in mind that these guys are at risk. If they are holding inventory when the price comes down they're going to get nailed. Ask anybody who bought a Colt LE 6920 six months ago.

It's going to take awhile for the prices to come back down. Most retailers who are getting regular shipments sell out immediately even with limits on individual purchases. Somewhere in this scenario, even the guys with big stashes will have to start buying. So your going to see a slow recovery. In addition, the guys who only keep on hand what they need for the next couple of weeks will have wised up and instead of a two week supply they're going to buy a two month supply which is a 400% increase in demand for that part of the market. This will take awhile.
 
#84
Quarter Horse,

Very true, I don't have any $9.95 bricks left, but I have some $14.95 and $17.95 bricks left. Everything else was bought for around $20.00.

On this note, I had one guy who works part time at a gunshop lament because he could not find any large pistol primers. I had some and as I was not reloading for a large pistol at the time, I said I'd sell him a box. He asked, "At inflated price?" "No, for what I paid," I said. He whined the whole time when I gave him a box (1k) for $15.00 (yes, it was old but still good). Now, that dealer has primers in stock for $49.00. Will he give me a break? No. Good thing I don't need any. I can get them somewhere else for $39.00 which is still pretty high.

I have no problem laying in your necessary supply.
 
#85
Quarter Horse said:
Well now. I've been following this thread for awhile so let me see if I've got this right. The guys that had quantities of .22 ammo stored are hoarders. They are a--h---s for doing so. The guys that have none left or available are just poor schmucks that are being screwed over. The guys that are buying it and reselling it can also be thrown in with the hoarders and are even worse because they are making a profit. Is all this about right?

What utter tripe. Most of the so called hoarders are guys like me who bought their stashes well before this recent fiasco. They're guys with enough life experience shooting to know that these shortages occur so when pricing is right they lay in quantities. I have not sold any of mine but I have given some to friends with the qualification that they give me the same quantity in return when availability returns. I'm still shooting bricks with a $9.95 price tag. Going into a history of these shortages to prove that it's worth stashing away isn't necessary but I will give you one example. A few years ago the rising metals commodity market drove a 25# bag of shot to over $50.00 in some locales. When it got back down to where I could buy it for $25.00, I laid in a supply.

As to the guys that are buying and reselling, I think they are actually supplying a service for some. I live in an area with only one large retailer. If they don't have .22 your pretty much SOL. At least you can go on the internet and find some even if the price is stupid. Also keep in mind that these guys are at risk. If they are holding inventory when the price comes down they're going to get nailed. Ask anybody who bought a Colt LE 6920 six months ago.

It's going to take awhile for the prices to come back down. Most retailers who are getting regular shipments sell out immediately even with limits on individual purchases. Somewhere in this scenario, even the guys with big stashes will have to start buying. So your going to see a slow recovery. In addition, the guys who only keep on hand what they need for the next couple of weeks will have wised up and instead of a two week supply they're going to buy a two month supply which is a 400% increase in demand for that part of the market. This will take awhile.
Click to expand...

Quarter Horse is Spot On in my opinion.

I still shoot the occasional brick of cheap federal ammo that I purchased from Walmart for $7.95.
 
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#86
I would challenge some of the people in this thread to consider the .22 shortage from wider perspective than your individual perception that “I had the foresight to hoard .22 ammo, now those who did not are complaining”. This is a circular argument that only has veracity when looking at the very small microcosm of a single shooter. The argument is circular because the hoarding, which was the result of an unreasonable fear of the government mass banning ammo include .22, has caused the ammo shortage for which people are currently hoarding. I.E. your solution the problem (to get you personal stash) is also the cause of the problem for which you perceive the need to have a stash.

Here is the scenario

A faction of the government seeks to ban “assault weapons”; there is no mention of ammo banning of any form, and sporting weapons are specifically and publically excluded because they know that the public and NRA backlash would kill the bill instantly (I don’t deny certain senators etc. would happily ban anything that they can get away with, but the chance of them getting a .22 ban through is incredibly small)

Despite the fact that there is ZERO short term threat of a real .22 ban (no bill proposed), and minimal threat of a foreseeable future ban, a few radical paranoid shooter/survivalists scoop their Wallmart/Gander Mountain shopping baskets full of any ammo they can find. Because they can afford more .22s they empty the shelves. This was a severe overreaction to any actual threat.

Now there starts to be an Actual shortage and .22 ammo is hard to come by. Now the more moderate shooters perceive an actual shortage (while gun bans headlines still exists in the popular press) and start figuring that they need to get the ammo while they still can, thus the number of hoarder expands.

This situation feeds off itself. The more people who hoard, the worse the problem becomes. The worse the problem becomes the more people feel the need to hoard. It is a classic example of self perpetuating mob mentality.

Is it the end of world… no
Is it keeping me from shooting… no
Is it inane, irritating, and pointless… yes, yes, and yes

The chink in my argument, I will grant you is my assumption that .22s are at low risk of being federally banned. If you are one of the folks that believe .22s will be illegal in a few years then we will have to agree to disagree, and we will see in time who was right. Who knows the joke may be on me, I don’t have a crystal ball.

Posted with respect to all contributors to the thread/forum in the spirit of healthy rational debate.

P.S. To QuarterHorse who feels this is tripe because he started his .22 stash before before the political crisis, this is clearly not the case for the majority of people. .22 ammo was easy to find until the the proposed ban. Most of the hoarders clearly got in gear in response to the Assault weapon panic.
 
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#88
Since this thead started I'bought about 3000 rounds of 22 or for under 5 cents each. Never went to Wal-Mart or any store just by checking Cabelas, Gander Mtn,etc. No gun broker, no auctions. I bought 333 Winchester hps for $15.99 5 minutes ago from Cabelas online. I go to the store once a month & pick it up or they've had $5 shipping including ammo. It's like hunting, do you stay in the cabin & expect the deer, bear or elk to open the door & come in? No, you prepare & get out & hunt for it. So quit your whining & bitching & spend that time hunting because it's there' now go get it!:p
PS I just bought 1000 rds of new brass case 308 147 gr reloadable for $599 from SG Ammo. You can't hut the new components for 60 cents. They still have it in stock. So if I'm a hoarder I'm a happy hoarder! Got to go hunting now ;-)
 
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#91
RMW said:
If you have an American 180 you could dump 1000 rounds in less than 20 min. I wish I had one of these, though feeding it right now would be very difficult.

I do two full 275 round dumps in my American 180 - YouTube

I purchased my 22 ammo by the case before the ammo craziness and was so glad that I did, because I had ammo to shoot this year when there was none on the shelves. I have purchased a few cases of 22 ammo during the past year when I found it for reasonable prices.

You may have to shop a bit to find 22 ammo, but it is out there.
Click to expand...

Is it strange that I find this video exciting? Not because it can quickly fire off all those .22lr rounds, but because I'm getting into swaging and thought, "what a great way to get so many .22lr cases from cheapy ammo."
 
#92
For what it's worth...another variable with 22lr is that every single round in hand primed...that takes a lot of time..the demand from the shooting community along with the hoarders is why 22lr is not abundant...however you can keep an eye for this place Trop Gun - Equipping Your Independence Since 1961 ..they also can be found on gunbot..here in PA Trop gunshop has been one of the few places that sells bricks of 22lr.
 
#93
After January 14th myself and every other recreational shooter in NY can no longer purchase ammo without the Governor and his minions knowing about it. Does my stash make me a hoarder or just a fool for living here?
 
#95
It's scary that gun/ammo control has begun on both coast. I live in Michigan & wonder what it will be like when my grandkids are grown.

Dark Horse;2792375]After January 14th myself and every other recreational shooter in NY can no longer purchase ammo without the Governor and his minions knowing about it. Does my stash make me a hoarder or just a fool for living here?[/QUOTE]
 
#96
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#97
22lr Ammo available for all you guys that can't find it Sportsman Guide has 5000 rds for $357 & free shipping backorder till Dec 10th. It's Centurian brand 38 grain HP, 1280fps made in mexico. From what I can find Remington ser up the plant, trained the employees but Aquilla owns it now. I'm not positive on these facts, just what I found on the net. Several test reports it's good ammo & clean. Smaller quantities also available. Happy shooting!:)

THIS HAS BEEN A PUBLIC SERVICE ANOUNCMENT!
 
#98
DFOOSKING said:
This is of course under the assumption that hoarders are the sole reason for the shortage when more than likely its the capitalists.

Those who are out to make a buck (or twenty) off the shooting community.

You know, the shit bags of society.

Kinda like the guys who created the housing bubble and turned a blind eye...because they technically weren't breaking the law giving some people home loans they couldn't afford.

Its real comforting that many here also have no qualms potentially causing great harm to the shooting community.

But rest assured, there are those outside the shooting community who are having a hand in this as well...pushing up prices because they take no part and therefore feel no pinch and will simply move on to next high value commodity.

These are likely the individuals who promote (but not take part in) the "hoarder" mentality since it leaves them in the clear.

If anyone is upset with any of my above statements.....I don't care.
Click to expand...

There are 1/2 million people in Seattle that have those thoughts too.
Capitol hill has lots of people with faces tattooed and pierced.
They say stuff like you, and they want attention.
 
#99
When I shot the junior club matches we had cases upon cases of 22lr. I shot 2-3x a week and would shoot for 1-2 hours at a time, along with 10 other kids. We blew through 2000+ rounds a week easy, not to mention what we shot off premises at our own houses.

I was up to about 14-15k 22lr a few months ago but have shot down to about 8-9k since I havent been buying. Im sick of having to troll for 2-3 hours at a time to find a crappy deal at best from one of the 'capitalists'.

Seriously screw those guys... If you are buying 100k because you will shoot it, great. If you are trying to resale to make money, please stop.
 
#100
While you may have swallowed your tongue...I'm eating crow and my foot..I'll work on creating a pic of that and posting it later...haha. Thank you for posting the videos...I don't shoot 22lr but have always been told that making it takes longer that other ammo. Lesson learned is you can't always believe what your told even when the information is coming from what you thought was a reputable source....


TOP PREDATOR said:
?
i'd post a facepalm pic here... but i think i just swallowed my tongue

Module 05 :: Primer Manufacture4:40 http://outdoorchannel.com/video.aspx?g=shooting&f=KVKomFAWRC3s&guid=aw4i_3EJmJNaCF_QVXBbR9Xz2Re1Ltl1
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