Rifle Scopes PLRF-10 vs Zeiss Victory RF 8/10x45T

[gunderwood]

I know these are different products, but I was curious if anyone had tested the LRFs against each other. The PLRF-10 claims to have a max range of 2.5km, but some military testing I found showed it was limited to 2km with an albedo of 0.1 (roughly a tree/forest according to wikipedia) on a 2.3m NATO target, under reasonable conditions (2x10^4m visabilitiy). The last 500m required idea conditions, approx. 5x10^4m visability.

LRF Range
The Zeiss reviews I have seen suggest the 1300yd (approx. 1.2km) range is conservative; many have said they could range a tree well past this. However, all the testing I have found on the Zeiss is not very strict like the military testing. No recording of conditions or verifying that the range reported is even correct.

Beam Divergence
Zeiss reports the beam divergence at 1.6x0.5mrad, while the PLRF was tested at 0.4x1.3mrad. This converts to approx. (using 0.3mrad per arcminute) 5x1.5MOA and 1.5x4MOA. Close enough.

Cost
The Zeiss is around $3k and the PLRF-10 is suppose to be around $3.5k (still waiting for a quote).

I am pretty sure the optics in the Zeiss are better than the PLRF and the LRF in the PLRF is better than the Zeiss, but by how much? Manufacturer specs are one thing, real world testing is another. No idea on the glass quality though.

I shoot out to 2000yrds give or take. Anyone tests the Zeiss at this range?

 

[hydro556]

Re: PLRF-10 vs Zeiss Victory RF 8/10x45T

What rifle (s) are you shooting out to 2K?

 

[Graham]

Re: PLRF-10 vs Zeiss Victory RF 8/10x45T

And where are you shooting?

 

[Pinco Palla]

Re: PLRF-10 vs Zeiss Victory RF 8/10x45T

Why , above all , not filling in your profile ?
Thanks ,
PP out

 

[gunderwood]

Re: PLRF-10 vs Zeiss Victory RF 8/10x45T

Barrett M99 32"HB .50BMG
DTA SRS .338LM

For now these are the only two. Technically the longest shots I've taken were around 1 mile, but that is a range limitation. I just haven't gotten a change to shoot safely to a true 2k, but I will. Currently I use a Wild CI from WWII that is good for artillery and a Wild Theodolite (1 arcsec). Both are heavy.

 

[PullinTriggers]

Re: PLRF-10 vs Zeiss Victory RF 8/10x45T

I have used the Zeiss 10x45 RF out to 1722 yards on Granite ledges in Nevada's Ruby Mountains. Pretty nice binos.

 

[psinclair]

Re: PLRF-10 vs Zeiss Victory RF 8/10x45T

I have a Vectronics PLRF10 and have marked targets with it out to and beyond 2500 meters. It offers an etched crosshair as well as an LED. It is 6X magnification and the optic quality is top of the shelf. The ranging sight is small enough to really pick out small targets way out there. For extreme long range shooting it would be hard to beat. On the other hand if you are hunting you may be better off with the Zeiss as it will do both tasks but you wont have the precision distance with it as you will with the PLRF10. Or you could just get a Vectronics VectorIV and be done with it.

 

[psinclair]

Re: PLRF-10 vs Zeiss Victory RF 8/10x45T

I just took this from my back yard looking towards town...that is a set of grain elevators in the crosshair. All of my shooting is done with mil/mil so this is meters...yardage would be 2923.

 

[gunderwood]

Re: PLRF-10 vs Zeiss Victory RF 8/10x45T

Where can you find the PLRF for sale? I've heard the you can buy them direct from the manufacturer.

 

[psinclair]

Re: PLRF-10 vs Zeiss Victory RF 8/10x45T

http://www.vectronix.ch/

Try this.....

 

[gunderwood]

Re: PLRF-10 vs Zeiss Victory RF 8/10x45T

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.vectronix.ch/

Try this..... </div></div>


I requested information/price quote from them before I posted, I wasn't sure if there was another way to get them. They apparently manufacture them on demand (takes around 4 weeks).

I appreciate the help, the picture is great. For those that have used them, when does the device fail to give ranges? I.e. the typical hunting LRFs I am familiar with work to around 1k (their spec) when the conditions are great and the object is reflective/flat. Range an irregular object or when the sun is bright and they won't work past 350 yards. So the real question I have is: so the spec is 2.5km, but what about ranging an animal/object that is smaller than the beam, not white, under field conditions, etc. Surely the range is less, but does it still work ok under these field conditions to 1.5km (randomly chosen range for illustration) or does it fall off like the hunting LRFs and work only at less than 300m?

Does any one have or used a compass (10C/15C)? Worth the money? How about integrating the PLRF with GPS through the data cable? I am guessing these features are more useful for the military, particularly calling in support fire, but I'm curious. Angle to target would be nice for long range mountain hunting/shooting.

Thoughts on the 10 vs 15 (PLRF-10: 905nm laser, 0.3x1.5 mrad beam, 2.5km; vs PLRF-15: 1550nm laser, 0.5x2.0 mrad beam, 3.0km). While the beam dispersion is greater on the 15, the detection range is greater too. That would seem to indicate that the atmosphere/target are less "absorbing" at 1550nm vs 905nm or the output power is greater on the 1550 or the sensor has better SNR or all the above. Since the manufacturer claims the same battery life and both are class 1, the power output can't be too different. Laser/sensor efficiency could allow for more range with the same battery usage. Guess it is time to go do some basic laser wavelength research.

 

[gunderwood]

Laser Attenuation 905nm vs 1550nm

Learned something interesting today.

I found lots of papers, but these three sum it up well:
<span style="font-weight: bold">
Atmosphere attenuation:</span> www.ursi.org/Proceedings/ProcGA05/pdf/F01P.7(01729).pdf
Summary: If my calculations are correct, 1550nm experiences approx. 0.0293 dB/m attenuation while 905nm is approx. 0.0722 dB/m. This is linear, so at 2.5km the attenuation of 905nm is approx. 180dB while 1550nm is approx. 73dB. Huge difference! Especially since a LRF must travel this distance twice.

Fog adds the most attenuation of the atmospheric conditions. 1550nm experiences more additional attenuation due to fog than 905nm, but since 1550nm has less attenuation to start with 1550nm in general has less total attenuation at all ranges with fog viabilities over 50m.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Sunlight intensity:</span> www.nrel.gov/docs/fy02osti/32284.pdf
Summary: The intensity of light at the sensors wavelength is approx. equal. I est. no advantage to either wavelength.

<span style="font-weight: bold">LRF Properties:</span> http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/index.php/dsj/article/view/232/84
Interesting read.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Laser Attenuation 905nm vs 1550nm

I bought my PLRF10 about two to three years ago from Vectronix USA in VA. The PLRF10 was shipped from Switzerland to VA and then to me. I agree with what PGS said. For hunting, I prefer my Vector 1000DAR LRF binos because it's easier to acquire targets with binoculars compared to a monocular. However, for target shooting, the PLRF10 has excellent optics and electronic options. I have no idea what they cost now, especially if you have to import them. I posted the Vectronix USA contact info on SH sometime ago, so maybe you can do a search on my handle and keywords like Vectronix.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Laser Attenuation 905nm vs 1550nm

Here's the phone number for Vectronix USA in Leesburg, VA: (703)777-3900. At the time I bought my PLRF10, the sales engineer for that product was Mike Nolan.

http://www.vectronix.com/#/en/company/contact

IIRC, the more expensive (~$6K), longer range PLRF15 operates at ~1550nm, while the PLRF10 uses ~903nm.