I put Geissele Triggers in mine. One of my POF 308’s initially as a new rifle (first hundred rounds or so had a sticking trigger). I just continued to shoot it and it broke in. I subsequently changed out the trigger to a Geissele SSA-e (the majority of my rifles have the SSA-E or the SD3G). The down side to the POF 308’s I have is that they are very heavy rifles. No way your taking those on a load out. Too much weight. These are probably the old style....
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POF and my Incredibly Disappointing Experience......
- Thread starter Voyager1
- Start date
When did they use Rock Creek barrels? Those are outstanding barrels! I have a 24” 6.5 Creedmoor RC in my LMT MWSF
I have 4 PoF 308 rifles and they were always among the most accurate of my stable. I have had .gov types compare reach out to me to test accuracy and the POFs always excelled.
I can’t say what changed, as I have not kept up. Every time recently I have interacted with them it appears theirs focus changed a bit to smaller and lighter vs Precision.
It’s been at least 8 years since dealing with on any level, but you can’t argue the results, this was the last time I rezeroed my POF, 3 rounds touching and the correction put the 4th in the 3/8th dot in the center,
I have used this rifle for accuracy demonstrations and training videos.
All display this level of accuracy, so take it fir what it’s worth, those who complain about a certain “type” of results don’t really understand large frame ARs when it comes to precision shooting.
I can’t say what changed, as I have not kept up. Every time recently I have interacted with them it appears theirs focus changed a bit to smaller and lighter vs Precision.
It’s been at least 8 years since dealing with on any level, but you can’t argue the results, this was the last time I rezeroed my POF, 3 rounds touching and the correction put the 4th in the 3/8th dot in the center,
I have used this rifle for accuracy demonstrations and training videos.
All display this level of accuracy, so take it fir what it’s worth, those who complain about a certain “type” of results don’t really understand large frame ARs when it comes to precision shooting.
That's cool-hopefully that holds. Like I said I did like the rifle for the most part. I had a 10" plate I hung on a tree on an island on a lake at my family land at 500yds. I could pound that thing with FGMM 175gr-until 1 day I couldn't. Now I'm balls deep into LMT MWS. Have not had a chance to pound the plate yet this year.
Is it possible to have them use a different barrel or purchase without the barrel?
So I had a problem with a POF and felt like they are simply looking for an “out” so they don’t have to stand behind their product. I had trouble with getting my p308 to run with a suppressor.
After me trying to address the issue myself I got to a point where I called them. I expected that they might be able to adjust the piston if I sent back to them or have other means to dis the issue.
Their first questions where what kind of ammo I was shooting in it. When they found out I was shooting handloads and using a suppressor they basically said that o had voided the warranty as they don’t recommend suppressor use but for sure couldn’t do anything considering I was using handloads.
Needless to say...I don’t shoot their guns anymore!
After me trying to address the issue myself I got to a point where I called them. I expected that they might be able to adjust the piston if I sent back to them or have other means to dis the issue.
Their first questions where what kind of ammo I was shooting in it. When they found out I was shooting handloads and using a suppressor they basically said that o had voided the warranty as they don’t recommend suppressor use but for sure couldn’t do anything considering I was using handloads.
Needless to say...I don’t shoot their guns anymore!
Yeah I'm just getting the Savage msr, it's quite small and only about a pound more, this can be attribute d to the barrel profile and locking handguard upper combo.
they offered no assistance at all? POF always struck me as a company that was innovative and unique. I don't know why they wouldn't be willing to assist a customer that is shooting one of their rifles suppressed with hand loads (assuming the rifleman is very competent; which may be difficult to discern......).
I can see that they may question one's competence as a hand loader however they could Inquire and request examples of the type of brass, primer, powder, weights and bullets your using, the suppresser type and compensator etc....I don't know why they wouldn't at least try to assist you....i know their piston rifles are at least built to be suppressed (thats the reason for the adjustable gas block)....
Wtf is this bs. Some company's age like wine. Apparently Pof ages like milk. Started out real good then puts out shit product and this wtf.
No sir told me they didn’t recommend suppressors and sure wouldn’t warranty anything with handloads being shot. I’m like you and can see we’re the genesis of the handload argument comes from. That doesn’t make me agree with their position though. If the three settings on the piston dont work you are out of luck.
I will say that I considered switching to an Lwrc and called them about their guns running with suppressors and they told me up front they don’t recommend it either. They explained to me that with all the suppressors on the market it would be impossible to create a gun that would run with them all.
Fwiw I run suppressed 100% of the time and have had zero malfunctions. Only malfunctions I've ever had are stuck cases from neglect/lack of cleaning.
Good to see they’re taking care of you. Unfortunate to have to air dirty laundry on a forum to get it taken care of.
Thanks for starting this thread, I was going to buy some of their gear, but now I will stay away. Too many good companies in the market to worry about doing business with people like this
Even though they are not BBB Accredited, many times opening a case with the BBB will get you some action, especially with the 100% satisfaction warranty the way it is written.
www.bbb.org
or contact Frank L Desomma, Chief Executive Officer directly, I can't find any contact info on him, but I will continue to look
Even though they are not BBB Accredited, many times opening a case with the BBB will get you some action, especially with the 100% satisfaction warranty the way it is written.
Patriot Ordinance Factory | Better Business Bureau® Profile
This organization is not BBB accredited. Gunsmiths in Phoenix, AZ. See BBB rating, reviews, complaints, & more.
or contact Frank L Desomma, Chief Executive Officer directly, I can't find any contact info on him, but I will continue to look
I think you are spot on. They were essentially publicly shamed into making this right. I applaud them for doing the right thing in the end. But, frankly, it should not have been this hard for a long time customer to be taken care of. Nor should it have taken the threat of losing new customers to get them to act right.
It's unfortunate it took this much bad PR for them to do the right thing, but good for the customer they finally get their gun fixed correctly. We see it all too often though, those with an "in" with a popular company or custom builder get preferential treatment, sing their praises, but when the average guy does business with them they are treated very different. It's not till they take their case to the forums and it gets some exposure does the company decide to try and do what they should of the first time.
oh sorry, I should read every single post before I post. I am happy they were public shamed into making it right for you.
I was just looking at POF drop in triggers because someone told me they were really nice. I had a Rise Armament trigger I was looking to possibly replace.
NO longer my case though, Rise just replaced my trigger no questions asked and paid shipping BOTH ways. After the awesome customer service experience with Rise, I am no longer in the market for a drop in trigger, Rise Armament will have my business moving forward. They are awesome and stand behind their product
I was just looking at POF drop in triggers because someone told me they were really nice. I had a Rise Armament trigger I was looking to possibly replace.
NO longer my case though, Rise just replaced my trigger no questions asked and paid shipping BOTH ways. After the awesome customer service experience with Rise, I am no longer in the market for a drop in trigger, Rise Armament will have my business moving forward. They are awesome and stand behind their product
I have serval drop in triggers and due to a deal, I picked up POF. The best of the lot drop in so far and will purchase again if needed.
I understand the customer care but selling firearms for 17 years, this is not anywhere close to the nightmares I have seen down to an actual law suite. I have had customers come in so wound up they were close to a coronary and many couldn't even speak coherently. Every company has an issue now and then with QC and customer care. If I let things like this decide my purchases, I wouldn't buy a single firearm or product. Are their better companies than others, yes but again, they all can have those moments.
I understand the customer care but selling firearms for 17 years, this is not anywhere close to the nightmares I have seen down to an actual law suite. I have had customers come in so wound up they were close to a coronary and many couldn't even speak coherently. Every company has an issue now and then with QC and customer care. If I let things like this decide my purchases, I wouldn't buy a single firearm or product. Are their better companies than others, yes but again, they all can have those moments.
Agree to a point, but its all in how a company handles those moments that matter. I have been in an IT support position in one form or another for almost 30 years. I have dealt with every type of upset customer you could ever imagine, had my job threatened if I don't "XYZ" for someone right now etc etc etc, had plenty of people try to steal from me in the name of customer service, I really have heard it all.
I believe the OP is 100% sincere and just wants POF to make good on their product and their warranty. That is critical to my opinion here
He isn't being ridiculous in any way says my 30 years of customer support experience.
The way the POF warranty is written, when they treat one valid customer with a problem poorly it is an indication of a problem in the company. You may find it acceptable, but I don't. Different standards.
Any company willing to treat the OP like they did in this social media world we live in is gambling pretty heavily on what could just be a cheap fix and some great free positive publicity. or it can go the other way as shown here...
I believe the OP is 100% sincere and just wants POF to make good on their product and their warranty. That is critical to my opinion here
He isn't being ridiculous in any way says my 30 years of customer support experience.
The way the POF warranty is written, when they treat one valid customer with a problem poorly it is an indication of a problem in the company. You may find it acceptable, but I don't. Different standards.
Any company willing to treat the OP like they did in this social media world we live in is gambling pretty heavily on what could just be a cheap fix and some great free positive publicity. or it can go the other way as shown here...
It looks like the OP is still waiting on the issue to get fixed. I’ll be interested to see when he actually gets it back in hand and how it works. No POF for me. Experienced the lack of accuracy and ruggedness first hand with two of their 308’s, experienced poor customer service, experienced their inability to stand behind their product and word. If you can’t deliver even on one of those things why bother giving them your money?
They were bought in 2013/2014 as department rifles. Everyone in my area that I have spoken to in the LE world stays away from them. Unfortunately one was issued to me when I got on our sniper team. I ended up buying my own rifle.
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It's always a shame to see a company start out with quality and go to ****. They started out using rock barrels and they were incredibly accurate
I agree. I have an older P308 with one of the rock barrels, and the thing is incredibly accurate. Sucks they can’t keep their shit together.
Chasing3's experience and mine are one and the same.
but to answer the question, they were bought around 2014. the terrible service and dishonesty took place from 2017 through 2018.
@Chasing3
May I ask what area you are speaking about. and what type of issues specifically ruggedness or failures.
Sharfshutz762, see mwinter501 comment, I think it’s on first page of this thread. That sums up the issues we had.
This isn’t a now and then kind of issue for POF. I had extremely difficult dealings with them back around 2007. Upon ordering a rifle it was quoted at 10-12 weeks....then another 10-12 weeks...and another and another until 2 years later I had to threaten legal action. I magically received my rifle but it wasn’t even the one I ordered.
I wasn’t a first, this wasn’t a first, most likely won’t be the last time
I apologize in advance. I’m (2) weeks late as I have been working Non stop. I wanted to inform everyone that I received my rifle back from POF approximately (2) weeks ago re-barreled in 6.8 SPC (2). POF in this day and age uses Green Mountain Barrels which I think are decent, cost effective, button rifled barrels for mass production but maintain good quality control.
Unfortunately POF no longer flutes their barrels which was a bit of a disappointment (I suspect it’s a cost saving measure like everyone else trying to be competitive in a different market than existed (5) years ago.
Having said all that, I HATED LIKE HEL to have to go thru so much drama just for a cheap re-barreling and a new adjustable gas block. I ONLY WENT THRU WITH THIS OUT OF PRINCIPLE. What cost them untold amounts of ridiculous publicity could have been totally avoided by just taking care of their customers as they VOW in their literature. What really upset me was I was a dam good customer of theirs owning (5) off their rifles (3) of which were over 2 K each.
I haven’t yet had the opportunity to shoot the re-barreled P415 , but I suspect it will shoot MOA and live up to billing. This has left a very, very bad taste in my mouth and it’s hard for me to get excited about something that cost me so much time, effort and emotion.
In the final analysis they did what they said they would do. I sincerely WISH IT WOULD HAVE NEVER HAD TO BE LIKE THIS.
I am extending a hand of SINCERE GRATITUDE AND APPRECIATION to everyone that was so kind and offered their encouragement and support during some very frustrating moments. The shooting community is a unique group but when their is obviously an injustice it’s my experience that we come together as a group which really makes great shite happen)!
GOD SPEED AND GOOD HEALTH TO ALL. Feel free to inquire if you have any questions.
Warmly,
Doc David
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Glad it’s all done. I’ll give $750 and 3 boxes of Nosler 130 RDFs .264 dia. for it. Just to keep you from having to relive the pain every time you open the safe and see it. ?
Nahhh not interested in low ball bottom feeding offers. If your really serious, get back to me and we will talk. I spent over 2K for it.
When your ready to make a serious offer let me know
yes (see note)
Awesome news!! I understand your so much drama but POF took care of the rebarrel in the end...the hard way. Range report would be good to know.
Just bustin. I hope the gun shoots great for you. I can’t imagine dealing with that for such period of time.
I can’t believe for the money they charge they use Green Mountain Barrels. They should really go back to rock creeks
For what they charged (remember I purchased these during the Onozo years where guns where a true commodity and commanded great prices. I would have thought POF would have used AT LEAST, White Oak, or Rock Creek, or Dawson Precision, or FNH, or how about even Kreiger or Bartlein LOL? Now the latter two are really grasping at straws.....Having said that, I have been able to produce MOA groups of three rounds with FGMM 168’s in my POF 308’s; however as a shooter my preference is a (5) round minimum or preferably (10) round group.....when shooting with my abilities, The tendency for me (we are talking about two different POF 308 rifles) was as the barrel heats up, I would tend to get a flyer so and my group would open up. YMMV....
POF manufactures a muzzle break that works to perfection as long as your outside. Its GREAT however it is also INCREDIBLY OBNOXIOUS and very very loud.to other shooters (I MEAN THAT SINCERELY). I won’t shoot my POF’s if there are shooters next to me on either side. They work incredibly well at directing muzzle blast / gasses out but good GOD are they loud and VIOLENT. You will get some MAJOR eat shite and die looks if you run off a string of 10 rounds of 308 in quick succession while some poor sod next to you is shooting his .22 LR single shot LOL....
IMHO POF-USA are fun rifles to shoot and at one time IMHO they used to be the best in class for materials that comprised their AR manufacturing. They used very fine barrels (Rock Creek) and what I consider to be the gold standard of AR 15 and AR 10 triggers manufactured by Geissele. I highly recommend the installation of the Geissele SSA or SSA-E Trigger for the POF 308 and the Geissele SD3G for the POF 415 (5.56).
Why POF went away from the absolute best AR triggers on the market and superb quality barrels MAY be related to the sad story of Hogan Rifles.
(a Guess)....Unfortunately the owner of
POF ‘s brother stole the POF ideas and years of research/ work. POF thus became embroiled in an ugly law suit / patent dispute with the now defunct HOGAN rifles. Fortunately justice eventually prevailed. However, this horrible protracted law suit certainly did likely cause financial damage to the company. Often, defending and fighting these lawsuits takes years and costs lots of dollars. Thus due to a multitude of factors, POF had to drastically cut costs while at the same time embarking on a Strategy to grow the company as years had passed in legal disputes while potentially losing millions of dollars.
POF needed to acquire funds quickly to expand so they could recoup all those years of lost revenue. They invested millions in advertising/ marketing and growth. Additionally, POF was motivated by cutting costs and maximizing profit in order to gain back the millions lost due to the Hogan lawsuits. Thus, Green mountain barrels and in house POF triggers came to be.
What once started as a man who believed he could build the best AR in the world enabled POF to be born. This brand grew a loyal following as their innovations combined with top quality materials produced some really, really fine rifles capable of shooting with the big boys of the ar-15 and ar 10 world.
IMHO POF should focus less on fancy marketing and beautiful photos and instead get back to their roots of quality components, innovation and drive. At one time I thought they were (when they used Geissele triggers and Rock Creek Barrels) on their way to the top tier of the gas gun firearms market. However, due to exigent circumstances, and bean counters, their quality Control has been affected.
POF-USA.has tremendous amounts of potential; the question is which route will they take? Bean counting with a growth model in a difficult ar market or a steadfast focus on high grade military capable weaponry without compromise?
Time will tell.....
Doc David
Alternative thoughts and ideas are encouraged.
??????????CHEERS
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Correct. They would NOT have ever lifted a finger beyond the absolute minimum had I not started this thread. That speaks volumes about the current mindset of the company.
