"Poser" or "Real Deal" Help me to understand

[Deadshot2]

I'm sure that everyone has encountered a poser or two in their lifetime. People who claim to have been what they never were.

I recently ran into an individual who has made some pretty extreme claims. In listening to various conversations at the range he's claimed to have:

Served "Four in the Corps"
Was trained as a Scout Sniper
Has attended the Marine Corps equivalent of SERE training (hey, I was Army, I don't know Marine Corps )
Served in Vietnam
Has a lifetime Security Clearance
Has unlimited access to ARDEC
Is a personal friend of Brian Litz
Calls Bruce Hodgdon whenever he has a question on powder


Then he moves on to further state:

He's trained half (or more) of the SWAT Team Snipers in a 3 County area

First question I have is how long does it take the average Marine to make it from Enlistment to Scout Sniper? As I understand (remember, I was Army and don't know crap about Marine) one can't enlist to become a sniper. They have to complete basic, advanced training, and then go to their first duty assignment before they can even apply for Scout Sniper School. If this is correct then how long would this process take? How long after applying or being recommended for SS Training would they have to wait until going off to school? How long would SERE training take?

It would seem to me that this individual would have had to have everything fall into place with no time wasted in order to complete all the training, be considered ready to deploy to a combat zone (Vietnam in his case), and still have the required amount of time left in his 4 year enlistment.

BTW, as close as I can determine the person is about 59 years of age. Is it possible that he was the youngest Scout Sniper in Vietnam?

OR

Is this person just another "poser"?

Last Question: What is it that makes individuals like this so intent on convincing the world they were "snipers"? I've never felt inadequate because I was trained to be a track mechanic. I always figured that I did my part and didn't need to pretend I was something else.

I'd be interested in any comments or observations others here might have on this individuals claims. Fact of just "Dreaming".

 

[Vio515]

I cant speak for all of those points but I was in the Marines from 04-09. The DOD uses the same SERE schools for all branches to my knowledge. My SERE was about 2-3 weeks long. There may be some special high speed schools out there that are branch specific. As for the lifetime security clearance, I'll pull that punk card. Anyone who has a clearance has "need to know" while you are at your position, job, post, etc. Once you leave your "position" your access will be revoked as you no longer have a "need to know" unless you move into another job that requires security clearance access. Even the president is removed from secure programs once he leaves office. No one has a "lifetime" security clearance. Clearances are issued on a temporary and as needed basis and get renewed every few to five years.

As for the scout sniper madness, I have no idea about what they may or may not have done back then to push people through sniper school.

Some of it is likely truth and some if it is a flight of fancy. End of the day, ignore it and move on.

Matt

 

[MtnCreek]

" Calls Bruce Hodgdon whenever he has a question on powder "

He either hasn't had a powder question in a good long while or he can converse with the dead.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Your man is full of shit....lots of it.

 

[Darkside-Six]

well it's hard to say what the criteria was back in the Nam erra, things may have changed. it's about 10wks for basic, then another 8 for ITS. before he would even be considered or have an opportunity. The SERE course i went through was a little over 3 wks. it's possible he could fit the timeframe in and still make a deployment but judging buy all his comments......he's full of shit. Lifetime security clearence my ass!!

Start asking him basic shooting questions and watch him fumble his words. Everybody wants to be a fucking sniper now a days.....I find the most posers out of the Viet Nam erra guys the most. No disrespect to the real Vets.

 

[Graham]

There's no such thing as a 'lifetime' security clearance. The rest sounds far-fetched. LOL!

But heck, I've trained half the snipers in our tri-county area.... That is, if you count them all on one hand and call 'training' to be showing them how to improve an aspect of their shooting.

 

[Mod Adahy]

Poser. No doubt.

 

[Zebra644]

Lifetime security clearance my ass. I was Navy and that was 20 years ago, if you had a security clearance you still had to have a suitability / eligibility check every so often and / or go through a process to keep it. When you left or if you didn't need it anymore it got yanked. I am not sure how they do it now or even back then but I'm going with POSER.

 

[Slapchop]

Who cares? This topic comes up every 3 weeks or so. Almost like clockwork. Let him "be" whatever he wants to be and move on with your life lol.

 

[Flying Goose]

Lifetime security clearance my ass. I was Navy and that was 20 years ago, if you had a security clearance you still had to have a suitability / eligibility check every so often and / or go through a process to keep it. When you left or if you didn't need it anymore it got yanked. I am not sure how they do it now or even back then but I'm going with POSER.

I only did 5.5 in the Corps with a top level security clearance but right around the 5 year mark I had to re-up my info and they ran another check on me. When I got out they didn't yank it but it became inactive ended up using it as a contractor but left that before it got re-up'd again. My understanding is that if I want it again I go back to the beginning or at least half way there.

 

[CoryT]

I have a lifetime security clearance. I'm rated "no need to know - anything", which is a couple levels below 'Unclassified'.

 

[Lowlight]

The USMC didn't have a Scout Sniper School during Vietnam, they had small "courses" and they weren't termed Scout Sniper. It was more or less organized OJT and only lasted a short time.

The official schools came much later.

I only served 4 years and was lucky enough to go to school as a PFC, but it was very rare and believe me it didn't go over well with the unit. Our STA Plt was in a rebuilding phase and I had the privilege of going to ARS so I was in demand. During the final Op in Key West I got into a fight with an LT and because I was slated to go to 2nd Recon and he was in 2nd Recon, my punishment was banishment to the grunts with 1/2. Most were on leave and they picked a few of us to go to NYC for the International Naval Review when Reagan opened the Statue of Liberty up. We took the Austin from NC to NY. I worked on those guys the whole trip and by Oct of that same year I was in Sniper School. (The trip north was for the 4th of July) Really rare to happen that way. Back in the day most had to re-enlist to get a school, and the rules stated you had to quality expert 3x in a row... I had only qualified once in boot camp. But my ARS class overrode a lot of it for them.

Long story short, he is full of shit.

 

[DCR]

Lifetime security clearance eh? I don't remember ever authorizing one those? If I'd known I could sure would have made my job easier.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

No one gets a life time, period. That statement alone tells everything. Served in V/N with what 60 million others like him,...ask what unit/s, when and where, who was his C/O and first shirt?
V/N BS is easy to look up, book called "Vietnam, Order of Battle" lists every unit when-where-battles ect, and who filled what slot from 4 star to E-8. Even stuff about NVA troops and battles they fought in, some V/C as well. Book came out in 1980 IIRC. Also stuff on places we never officially (prior to end)stepped foot on, and operations that were run in same. Even some stuff about Russians captured by civi clothed guys, and the 23th Americal. Good read that puts some of the pieces together.


Vietnam Order of Battle: A Complete Illustrated Reference to U.S. Army Combat and Support Forces in Vietnam 1961-1973 (Stackpole Military Classics): Shelby L. Stanton: 9780811700719: Amazon.com: Books

 

[Graham]

No one gets a life time, period.

Unless your life ends before the clearance does.

 

[Darkside-Six]

Unless your life ends before the clearance does.

Touche`

 

[Mark williams]

It's like the thread here, " He is the most interesting sniper in the world"!

 

[Graham]

It's all relative: I've met too many posers who already had the job.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Here's a question...

Can you go through any country's special forces and come out with unscarred hands?

 

[WildBill3/75]

Sounds like you had a run in with this guy.

 

[Graham]

"Poser" or "Real Deal" Help me to understand

A friend once told me this, and it stuck:

Special Forces are 'special' in the sense that they are competent.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

[Hueyguy]

He's FOS about the SERE, too.
A clearance comes with a 75 year gag order, basically for life. That's where he may have substituted his own dreams. The others are correct, lifetime clearances are not given.
As our veteran population(Viet Nam) continues to dwindle, it becomes easier for posers to pose. Call him on his crap, tell him to show a DD-214 or STFU, he's taking something that does not belong to him.

 

[Switchblade]

They are at every range. I politely ask them to leave my brass alone and go back to their post or position as we do not require any assistance. If they persist, then I punk them as hard as I can. OH REALLY? You were RECON? NO SHIT? What? You don't say? Look pal, STFU. You're a lieing POS and no one wants to hear your shit. My kid already called you BS anyway. Fuck off and leave us alone or I will take pleasure in assisting you to a different location.
I actually did it once. It was telling the POS my KID called his BS that did it. Never tell a kid who is a study of more military history than most professors when and where you served if you didn't

 

[pmclaine]

By chance is his name Hotchkiss?

 

[Name Enough]

He's FOS about the SERE, too.
A clearance comes with a 75 year gag order, basically for life. That's where he may have substituted his own dreams. The others are correct, lifetime clearances are not given.
As our veteran population(Viet Nam) continues to dwindle, it becomes easier for posers to pose. Call him on his crap, tell him to show a DD-214 or STFU, he's taking something that does not belong to him.

I was unaware the gag order was for 75 years. I remember signing something but I thought it was for 20 years. I also agreed not to travel in any communist country for 20 years. As far as the DD214 goes it shows I mustered out of a unit I never served in located in a different country and it has my social security wrong. I never thought of it more than a paperwork snafu as I took an overseas discharge.
As far as a security clearance I thought it went with the job. When you left a posting you lost the clearance and based on a need to know could be upgraded or downgraded at you next posting. I had to wait for the clearance to come thru on a new posting before I had access and this usually took 3 weeks. This was all long ago and far away.
At any rate those that did what they did, didn't talk about it not then not now. If anyone asks I was a clerk in the motor pool.

 

[MarinePMI]

They up'ed the time to 75 years in the early 90's (I think). IIRC, it had something to do with all the tech talk getting out (Tom Clancy, Skunk Works, Deep Black etc.), so they up'ed the time limits. You still have to have your PR (periodic review) every 5 yrs, and clearances are a bit different now than in the cold war era. Not any less secure or more secure, just different compartmentalization due to the information age we live in today...

LL,

You road the Austin up to New York city? Be careful...you're dating yourself. (She deployed in one of the MARG's I was on, and she was ancient then! 24th MEU(SOC)).

 

[Delta4-3]

I always ask potential posers if they received an ID10T when they graduated school. That will clear any doubt. It's humorous how many people answer yes.

 

[Darkside-Six]

I always ask potential posers if they received an ID10T when they graduated school. That will clear any doubt. It's humorous how many people answer yes.

I LOL'd so hard!!

 

[Darkside-Six]

I always ask potential posers if they received an ID10T when they graduated school. That will clear any doubt. It's humorous how many people answer yes.

I LOL'd so hard!!

 

[Deadshot2]

At any rate those that did what they did, didn't talk about it not then not now. If anyone asks I was a clerk in the motor pool.

You sound like a friend of mine. He says "I was the only truck driver in Vietnam". Everyone else was a Seal, LRP, Ranger, SF, or "CIA", according to him. He claims he was also the busiest truck driver in country.

 

[DCR]

SF-312 is the 'gag order' you sign. I don't remember what the time frame is. I'm pretty sure it's forever or until you get permission from the government.

http://www.archives.gov/isoo/security-forms/sf312.pdf

 

[Deadshot2]

clearances are a bit different now than in the cold war era.

Indeed. Today they contract the work to civilian agencies and grant clearances to people like Edward Snowden.

We need a little "Cold War Era" to deal with him today. I keep hoping I'll turn on the news and read how someone put a bullet in his head or he suddenly died from an unknown illness.

 

[MarinePMI]

Indeed. Today they contract the work to civilian agencies and grant clearances to people like Edward Snowden.

We need a little "Cold War Era" to deal with him today. I keep hoping I'll turn on the news and read how someone put a bullet in his head or he suddenly died from an unknown illness.

To be honest, I haven't seen that much of difference in thoroughness whether the investigations were done by government or contractor investigators; in fact, the contractors have been more detailed in my experience. Lots of stuff has happened in the past, Snowden was just the first to be splattered all over the information highway (speedier dissemination; hence more damage).

I'm a firm believer of "what goes around, comes around", one way or the other, it'll balance itself out...

JMTCW...

 

[FedCop]

99.9% of the time if you're talking to an actual bad ass, you wont even know it. The real deal typically does not brag about it. this is not always the case but in my experience most of the time.

 

[Foul Mike]

We will all run across these posers all of our lives.
I know what I did and back down from no one during these bullshit sessions. I always win!!!
I just tell the TRUTH.
We have had 2 bigtime posers hanging out in our library at night whippin up some of the goddamnest things in the last 10 years and laying it on our kids and anyone that would stop to hear of his exploits.
Bullshitting anyone that would listen and taking handouts from the people he talked to.
One was embedded in the staff as a volunteer.
The other just hung out and did his thing when one night an Old Vet went to pick up books for his Panty 6++ and asked the most basic of questions of a Viet Nam vet What Division, what Corps as in I II III and mud rats, what was your MOS, when was your DEROS, just standard shit.
Asshole could not answer one question.
The Old Vet persisted and started cussing loudly and casting aspersions at the poser, it got loud, then the Poser was assisted to the door by that foul mouthed Vet where he gave the Poser a rocket assist in his ass with a heavy boot.
Panty 6++ was told to pick up her own books by library personnel, but the embedded Poser left 2 days later and doesn't volunteer anymore in his cammo outfit with the bandana on top.
That Old Fart was pissed off to the max. I think he may even of had a case of the ASS. Regards, FM
DD 214, "Whats that?" "I was always on Black ops CIA, The Company and nothing is in my files." Nothing but food stamps, misdemeanors and felonies as the local PD discovered when they checked on him.

 

[RobertB]

Quit talking about me on this here inner tube. I'm 29 and I have served 6 tours in nam.

 

[Manny2_0]

Hey Guys you never know

I'm 36

I remember in the battle of Li ning, col Hal Moore didn't know what to do...
I had to take over for a while and call in broken arrow.

Then after I went back and personally carried everyone one from the lost platoon back, all while dodging American artillery, and killing over 999 viet cong
I was pissed I didn't get one more to make the 1k mark.

 

[realistic]

I thought, I was the only 11D that wasn't at least a Ranger! I didn't know there were so many Snipers, Green Beret,Special Forces,Seals etc.. I have had the misfortune of meeting what had to be most if not, all of them in the last 30+yrs. I was just a plain "Scout."

 

[Megahoser]

SF-312 is the 'gag order' you sign. I don't remember what the time frame is. I'm pretty sure it's forever or until you get permission from the government.

Hmmm...are you sure its not the STFU-411?

 

[2ndamendfan]

I would say he is full of shit. Since our military is all volunteer I have the utmost respect for those that have volunteered for what ever reason. It is 100% disrespectful to those that have volunteered/served and died for people to "pose". I would call him on it.

I would wonder about his age, you state 59.

My Uncle was a Marine in Vietnam and he is 66. When he was 17 1/2 him and my grandpa got in to a huge fight and he left home. He lived in a friends tools shed for 6 months, 2 days after he turned 18 he joined the Marines, he was in Vietnam by 1968. I also agree people that are "real" don't talk about. Grandpa doesn't talk about WWII (He was a Navy medic) and my Uncle has only ever said a couple little things about Vietnam. My uncle retired as a Command Sergeant Major a few years back and will happily talk about anything after about 1972.

If the guy you are talking about is 59 I don't see how he could have been in Vietnam before 1975, which (please correct me if I am wrong) was two years after the USA had pulled it troops due to the Paris Peace Accords cease fire being signed.

 

[PittsDriver]

Hey, maybe he just stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[DCR]

Hmmm...are you sure its not the STFU-411?

LOL now that you mention it....

 

[Deadshot2]

If the guy you are talking about is 59 I don't see how he could have been in Vietnam before 1975, which (please correct me if I am wrong) was two years after the USA had pulled it troops due to the Paris Peace Accords cease fire being signed.

You got the point I was trying to make.

As for calling this dude on anything, that usually leads to an explosion of attitude so most people either don't talk to him anymore or just nod their head in a "whatever" gesture.

 

[Graham]

"Poser" or "Real Deal" Help me to understand

As for calling this dude on anything, that usually leads to an explosion of attitude so most people either don't talk to him anymore or just nod their head in a "whatever" gesture.

Occasionally these people can be maneuvered into buying rounds for the table you are sitting at.

It's like hunting wild turkeys: They gobble. You gobble back. If you're patient, the foolish and impulsive bird will walk right into your line of fire.

There's no need to expose them: The hunt is over when you can pull the trigger and expose them, or not, but when doing it is entirely your choice.

Instead, you get him to buy the beers.

 

[Deadshot2]

Occasionally these people can be maneuvered into buying rounds for the table you are sitting at.

It's like hunting wild turkeys: They gobble. You gobble back. If you're patient, the foolish and impulsive bird will walk right into your line of fire.

There's no need to expose them: The hunt is over when you can pull the trigger and expose them, or not, but when doing it is entirely your choice.

Instead, you get him to buy the beers.

You of course assume here that anyone wants to sit at the same table as they are.

 

[Graham]

"Poser" or "Real Deal" Help me to understand

You of course assume here that anyone wants to sit at the same table as they are.

I said nothing of the sort: It was you who assumed that he was sitting at the same table.

 

[Deadshot2]

I said nothing of the sort: It was you who assumed that he was sitting at the same table.

OK, I'll concede that. However, I doubt you've ever met the poser I met. I seriously doubt that he'd buy anything for anyone else, much less drinks for any table.

His Veterans disability payments always seem to be "late".