Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

[CoCaDoRi]

OK.. due to my present situation I am slowly but surely putting together a portable reloading set up. Redding Turret press stand built from scratch, all that goos stuff...

OK so.. I am really anal about powder charges. I'll weight 3 or 4 times on my digital scale. blah blah..

So what is the best or should I say most accurate Powder dispencer? Harrels, or is there another manufacturer that makes one as accurate and repeateable as the Harrels ( from what I have been told )

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

the best and fastest ....but most importantly the most accurate....down to one particle of powder.

 

[NorCal Vu]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

BT...what does that bad boy run $$$ wise?

Where can I get one?

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

they ain't around......when they were they were about $1,100.00






BUT it seems that Brand Cole will have something........sometime, a gen 2 that is even somewhat faster/accurate....I don't know.....he should be at Shot, maybe we can go and twist his nipples and hurry him up....its a patented item called the Prometheus ....all hand assembled and engineered & designed by Brand Cole

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

I've had the Harrell's Premium since it first came out. I can get mine to throw most powders to +/- .1 grain. If you get the Harrell's I have a spread sheet of powders and settings I use. If you want me to email it to you just send me a regular email. It's in MS Excel format.

Good luck with whichever you choose.

 

[Dogtown]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

The Harrells have that claw design that chews powder instead of sticking, right? I hate nothing more than catching a big chunk of RL-25 or Varget when I use my Uniflow. Screws up my powder throw every time

 

[craigp40]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

At $1100, I'll pass and buy more powder. I'm sure it's a kickass system and extremely well built, but what good is measuring to within 1 particle of powder if you can't hold that margin of error on everything else? Besides, who can really see a difference in 1 particle of powder? Not trying to bust your balls or be a smartass, just making a point.

Why not spend $2k and measure to within a 1/2 particle of powder? (now that was a smartass comment

. couldn't resist).

 

[Rafael]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

Use the one you have and get a high-quality digital scale.

I can get .03 grain accuracy out of my Redding 3BR and Acculab VIC-123 scale. I considered moving up to a Harrels, but some of the comments on this site lead me to believe they are not going to throw charges that are much better than my Redding. The scale fixes that inconsistency.

Is this level of accuracy needed?
Only you can answer that. You asked for accuracy.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: craigp40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At $1100, I'll pass and buy more powder. I'm sure it's a kickass system and extremely well built, but what good is measuring to within 1 particle of powder if you can't hold that margin of error on everything else? Besides, who can really see a difference in 1 particle of powder? Not trying to bust your balls or be a smartass, just making a point.

Why not spend $2k and measure to within a 1/2 particle of powder? (now that was a smartass comment

. couldn't resist).
</div></div>


actually the 2k part is what the new preometheus will probably sell for....i really do appreciate your jest/humor.....the surgically precise/repeatability allows for "good' ammo.....its what give you an edge....and its what many competitors use to win matches with......so yeah you can keep buying more powder.....and bang away......but i prefer to shoot great ammo and work on my wind doping skills......and 1/10th grain is way too sloppy for me ....thank you.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

How does the Neil Jones measure stand up against the Harrell?

 

[Sighter]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

I have had a Neil Jones, Harrels and a Brunos measure and they all work well, they can typically throw +/- 1/10th. The Redding and RCBS type measures will work well but are inferior in smoothness which is a big help in throwing consistant loads.

Using a quality powder thrower is similar to shooting, you need good technique to get good accuracy.

Are top end powder throwers worth the investment? Everything from the bushings, the click detents, the throw handle are superior. One will last you a lifetime with care.

I think high quality measures, dies and a scales are excellent investments. It is hard to enjoy the cheap stuff after using them, they also keep their value pretty well if you ever want to sell them.

 

[918v]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

How about the RCBS Chargemaster 1500? It is fast and accurate to +/- .1 grains @ $300.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

OK.. so far Harrels leads the way..
It will be tough to use a digital scale as this whole set up will be portable. My expereince with digital scales are that they tend to pic up every air current and even ones that arn't there.
Has anyone used a Redding BR dispencer?

As far as the charge master I would need one that can run off of a car battery. I suppose I could always get an inverter for the power point in the vehicle.

 

[Sighter]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

Buy a Harrels and practice with it to see how close you are on your loads. Experiment with the click adjustments and make a sheet to show the powder weight versus click scale on the Harrels. For example 39.5 clicks = 33 grains 40 clicks = 39.8 grains etc.

If you want to field check your weight, there are several inexpensive battery powered scales out there. For example:

Battery range scale with wind hood

Accurate loading can be done at the range, go to a benchrest match and you will see powder thrown with no weight measurement and groups in the .1's and .2's at 100 yards. Of course excellent brass, bullets, dies, and supporting equipmentare needed to get that type of accuracy.

 

[Rafael]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK.. so far Harrels leads the way..
It will be tough to use a digital scale as this whole set up will be portable. My expereince with digital scales are that they tend to pic up every air current and even ones that arn't there.
Has anyone used a Redding BR dispencer?

As far as the charge master I would need one that can run off of a car battery. I suppose I could always get an inverter for the power point in the vehicle. </div></div>

I mentioned using a Redding in my post. I use mostly Varget in my Redding and it is not accurate enough for my taste, but I don't think the Harrels would be either....from what I hear on this site. If I were starting from scratch, I would probably buy the Harrels.
Since I already have the Redding, I will stick with it.
I use the scale because I don't believe any measure is accurate enough for my taste.

Also, any scale, even mechanical, will change with air flow.
The digitals are no worse than the mechanicals, they are just more precise so it shows more. Set it to the same sensitivity as the mechanical you are comparing it to.....you will likely see the same variation.

 

[Sc0]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

Most BR guys tend to use the Harrels for there portable setups. Keep a chart with click values, and if adjustments are needed it only takes a few clicks. I didn't see anyone using scales after they dumped a charge since they seated a bullet on top... (Arbor press, wilson dies)

I would say you can keep some small tubes with a premeasured charges in them but extra rounds do the same thing except no press is needed. As for the Chargemaster with inverter I don't know if I would trust it unless it was a true sine wave inverter $$$. I have a Chargemaster and compared to a 5-0-5 scale, Forster PM, and a redding trickler I absolutely LOVE it!

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

Anyone us the Redding BR3??

 

[Two Shoes]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

Yep, and folks have done that.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

Remember that the BR guys are shooting mostly at 100 yds...vertical is miniscule when dealing with tenths of grains and just 100 yds. It is when you get WAY out there that variation in fps begins to count. Which is why long range shooters try to build an accurate load with minimal extreme spread. Which usually means a scale used in conjunction with a measure. I use a RCBS Chargemaster and loads for a 6.5x55 are running in the 6 sd range with extreme spread from 7 to 8 fps. Really helps at 400 yds and up. JMHO

 

[918v]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

The 3BR is a POS. The BR-30 is Redding's best thrower. The difference is in the tolerances. The BR-30 is fitted with zero clearance and will slice through grains with ease. The 3BR will catch grains inbetween the metering drum and will bind.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

If I'm not mistaken, the Harrell's Premium is down under $250 now.

Practice and patience is the key to making accurate powder throws. No matter what measure you have. Take your time and practice.

 

[Sighter]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

The Harrels have several styles of measures with corresponding prices.

http://www.harrellsprec.com/

Here is a premium for $210, it is not mine, but I am suprised it is still there after being listed a couple of days:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=2385993

 

[Rafael]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone us the Redding BR3?? </div></div>

I am guessing you have me on "ignore".

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

nope... just was on my smartphone didn't see your post.. appolgies

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what is the best or should I say most accurate Powder dispencer? Harrels, or is there another manufacturer that makes one as accurate and repeateable as the Harrels ( from what I have been told ) </div></div>
I use a PACT electronic dispenser and PACT digital scale to throw an initial charge that is "close", then measure it with a Denver scale and make adjustments with a pair of tweezers. It's possible to get within one particle of Varget with this setup, but it's time consuming and oh so tedious. This accuracy is slightly insane, since +/- 0.1 grains is certainly more than accurate enough for 308Win, 243Win, and 6XC that I shoot.

The Prometheus is attractive to me because it maintains the accuracy I achieve with the Denver scale and a pair of tweezers, but may be much faster. I want this accuracy because it eliminates one potential source of inconsistency. If you want to argue with me on this, I'll let you win.

So, the answer to your question depends on what else you want to achieve - fast reloading or stupidly accurate powder loads. I want both, and the Prometheus II may be the way to go when it becomes available. One other characteristic of the original Prometheus I like is the small footprint and construction on a common platform.

 

[918v]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

There is no such thing as a Redding BR3. There are the 3, the 3BR, and the BR30.

 

[Rafael]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

LOL
No apology needed, but thanks.

I am not unhappy with the 3BR, not sure any measure will give me the accuracy I want. Most of the time it will throw within .2 grains or so with Varget.....sometimes it is off by alot more.

I use it as a rough dispenser for my scale. It works great for that. I have a Hodgdon bottle adapter on mine so I just screw in a bottle of powder and start dumping. Great way to go if you use multiple powders, hard to get them mixed up.

 

[1bamashooter]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

The Neil Jones measure is almost as accurate as my Chargemaster and faster.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

If I may add something.

When looking for a MANUAL powder measure, look at the area where the powder collumn will be. If the powder collumn is vertical (up and down) the measures accuracy will vary depending on the ammount of powder in the bottle. If the powder collumn lays on it's side it will have less space to compress the powder from the weight of the powder above.

Most powder measures of the horizontal type are copies of the Homer Culver / Lyman conversion. Some of the best benchrest shooters believe that this design is the best manual type of powder measure available.

Good luck with whatever system you choose. Be sure to practice with it and find out which way it likes to be cycled.

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

If you consider the Redding turret press to be portable, the Prometheus should offer no disadvantage.

 

[CoCaDoRi]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

It is portable if you have a small manufactured stand that you can bolt and unbolt the press to.

Amazing what a P/U with a topper and a mini van with the rear seats out can hold ;-)

 

[Jasmck]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

+1 for the Neil Jones powder meter.

James

 

[Mag 300]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

The harrels is a static maker , a real pain in the ass for me
SOLD IT

 

[fx77]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

I like neil jones over harrells...have both. Check out Quick Measure link als very accurate and great support from manuf.

http://quick-measure.com/benchrest.htm

RCBS Chargemaster combo..takes no effort at all.

 

[jasonk]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

NineHotel tested the Harrels side by side with the RFD and left with the RFD, I'm sure he'll chime in here.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=REPMMP&item=11-2500&type=store

 

[Raggs]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

I have used the Harrel premium culvers for 7 years in the field, have not had one complaint,I find that they are very personal according to the individual,at one setting the harrel may throw 35.0gr for say yourself and throw 36.0 for the next guy set at the same setting,this is because of the difference in how you cycle the charge lever.

 

[Tims]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

I have used the Niel Jones for the last 15 years.They are very well made and work well with Varget type powders. They are expensive but worth the money.

 

[Bubb]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

What is a good thrower under 100$

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BUbb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is a good thrower under $100? </div></div>
www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000690100

Requires a powder scale and a Redding trickler. Perfection every time.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BUbb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is a good thrower under $100? </div></div>
www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000690100

Requires a powder scale and a Redding trickler. Perfection every time.
</div></div>

If you have to use a trickler to get an acceptable charge, wouldn't a spoon be just as effective??

 

[Vindex]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BUbb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is a good thrower under $100? </div></div>
www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000690100

Requires a powder scale and a Redding trickler. Perfection every time.
</div></div>

If you have to use a trickler to get an acceptable charge, wouldn't a spoon be just as effective??

</div></div>


Is that what you East Coast boys use those little spoons for? Damn! Always wondered about that. I never knew there were so many reloaders in places like NYC!

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vulcan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that what you East Coast boys use those little spoons for? Damn! Always wondered about that. I never knew there were so many reloaders in places like NYC! </div></div>

Well you are sure as hell not going down to the local Bodega to pick up a case of FGMM!! You can take the boy out of the country but not the country out of the boy! But, surprisingly, there are a few of us.

I mean, come on now, shooting provides yet another way for wall-street types to over-compensate!!

One thing though--you are required to adapt when relaoding in an NYC area apt.

My bench, (before the Harrell's) for example.

And the view, this morning...

 

[600yd]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vulcan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that what you East Coast boys use those little spoons for? Damn! Always wondered about that. I never knew there were so many reloaders in places like NYC! </div></div>

We had 40 folks on the line for 200/300yd service rifle match this past Sunday at the Central Jersey range. Lots of us out here in the NYC/NJ area who shoot and reload. Even with the crazy laws.

Just got off the phone with Mr. Harrel and ordered a Custom 90 at his suggestion. When I told him I was calling to order a BR Premium he ask how many rounds a year I would be loading. When I told him that it would be 2500-3000 he said get the Custom 90 and save $40. And, don't give him a credit card number or worry about the $$ until I receive the dispenser and give it try. If I don't like it, send it back. If I want something else send it back and he will send whatever else I prefer. If I like it, just send along payment in whatever form works for me. Now that is what I call customer service. I don't see that happening with Redding or RCBS.

I might also add that I use a PACT dispenser and scale. This is my second season with it and I've never had a hiccup. I do a check weigh with a 20gr and then 10gr (total of 30gr) calibrated weight(s) every 10-15 throws and it is right on. Out of 100 rounds it might meter one or two that are 0.1gr high. Just twizzer out a few bits (using Varget) and it is right on.

 

[Weaselthis]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

Long way of saying "Get the best ya can afford for what ya do". Also, some info that might change the way you think about accuracy/powder wts.......
I was browsing the home page last night and ran across these articles by Denton Bramwell. I cut and pasted these links off the home page if you wanna look. LL recommends him highly.
Now, I wish I had never read them....gettin ready to CAREFULLY work up some loads, but WAIT, Denton says .1 gr don't make a helluva lot of difference, so now he just throws charges. Methinks, hey!me too! Old gun, old eyes, old RCBS 10-10, Uniflow, & trickler (all 27 yrs. +)old everything, what can it hurt? After charging 101 new WW cases, decided to go back and double check the 69.3gr Retumbo load. DOHHH!! Some were 70.1, some were 69.3 and everything inbetween, with the average on the high side. Hadda go back and WEIGH each friggin one. There definately is a new Harrels in my future.

Articles:
Fri, 07/10/2009 - 11:20 — Lowlight
Denton Bramwell has been kind enough to forward Sniper's Hide his articles on Pressures, Primers, and Powders, among some others of his published works. Mr. Bramwell is a physicist and statistician with a background in measurement instrumentation. His conclusions are always supported with good data and proper analysis. When not shooting to gather data for his articles, Denton is consulting with design engineers. To learn more visit his company's web site at: www.pmg.cc.

Here are the links to his articles.

http://www.snipershide.com/UserFiles/Image/articles/Pressure_Factors.pdf
http://www.snipershide.com/UserFiles/Image/articles/powder_primer_temp_e...
http://www.snipershide.com/UserFiles/Image/articles/Perverse_Nature_of_S...
http://www.snipershide.com/UserFiles/Image/articles/group_size_oct_27.pdf

 

[jetlyting]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

talked to Brand Cole a couple weeks ago, he has made some good improvements on the old Prometheus powder dispenser. Good Luck getting one soon....he told me he just doesn't know when he would be able to get one to me....they are great---

 

[treebasher]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

Are you f'in kiddin' me?! $1100 for a Prometheus...

While it is an amazing piece of machinery I do have to question if the "gnat's ass" accuracy you get is lost among the multitude of variables that comprise a rifle's accuracy potential.

Temperature alone is going to make a MUCH bigger change in the rate of powder burn, thus altering chamber pressure and the pressure/time curve than a kernel or two of powder ever will.

I think this clearly falls within the realm of diminishing returns.

My recommendation; buy an RCBS ChargeMaster Combo and hit the sweet spot on the ole' diminishing returns curve.

Digital Powder Dispensers Review

 

[treebasher]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

...I am on Sniper's Hide and not Benchrest Central Forums right??

 

[jetlyting]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

The absolute best powder thrower out there is very expensive. It is my daughter, she helps me load. I have three chargemasters going at the same time, she takes a charge and weighs it on a scientech scale, if it's good she dumps it---she really enjoys seating bullets too, she is 12 years old and a great reloader. My powder thrower required new volleyball shoes last weekend..........reloading---pass it on....

 

[treebasher]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

LOL!!

That is awesome Rudyard!

I have a feeling that she knows how to shoot also.

It is good to hear about kids being involved in shooting. Something that amazes me here in Montana are the number of women that have never shot or only a couple of times and grew up on a ranch. Drives me crazy when I hear that, I guess it is the old mentality that the men hunt and shoot with these old ranching families. I know it was that way with mine...

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Powder Dispenser, "The Best" Harrels or???

There are two things I really like about the Prometheus II:

(1) Much less drudgery, measured in my time and effort. I really hate "precision" reloading more than 50 rounds. By making this aspect of reloading a breeze, I will load more and shoot more, making me a better shooter. I have other tools that make other reloading procedures faster and easier as well.

(2) No more worries about possible mismeasured loads that are high or low by an amount sufficient to make a difference at the target. I don't trust my PACT electronic scale to tell the truth every time, and I know for sure that it doesn't. So I weigh the charge again on a Denver scale, taking even more time and effort.

Instead of owning N precision rifles, I can own N-1 precision rifles and a Prometheus II. Just my opinion, your mileage may be different.