Powder for 16” 308

[NFAJohn]

Have a 22” SAC 308 that’s being cut to 16” to make for a handier rifle in the deer blind. Barrel is a 1:10 bartlein and I’ll be running a sico harvester.

I’m planning on running the 178gr eldx with once fired fgmm brass. I’ve had great success with the 200gr eldx in my 300WM and load development was a breeze with it.

My question is what powder would help me achieve top velocity with such a short rifle? Anyone have a similar rig and some chrono data?

Much appreciated.

 

[SkyScrapin]

I have tried Varget and 178g A-Max projectiles in 16.5” barrel with velocity spreads as high as 2500fps. Accuracy was crap though. I got 175g SMKs to the same velocity and they were much more accurate.

No idea what powder would give me better velocity, but to be honest, I wasn’t to worried about it from the get go.

 

[padom]

175smk with Varget and H4895. Varget was faster but both shot lights out. Was in a Rock Creek 16"

 

[NFAJohn]

No idea what powder would give me better velocity, but to be honest, I wasn’t to worried about it from the get go.

I appreciate the input and totally get where your coming from. I knew going 16” I was going to be giving up some juice, but in the spirit of not leaving good enough alone I’ll try and wring as much speed out of it as I can. Mostly I’m really stoked to have a shorter gun for in the deer blind/ trainer for my 300WM.

 

[Forward543]

I like 8208. With 168-175s. Or win 748

 

[SkyScrapin]

I appreciate the input and totally get where your coming from. I knew going 16” I was going to be giving up some juice, but in the spirit of not leaving good enough alone I’ll try and wring as much speed out of it as I can. Mostly I’m really stoked to have a shorter gun for in the deer blind/ trainer for my 300WM.

That's exactly what I was going for with my 16.5" .308 win. If you're chasing velocity, go with the 135g SMK. I got them up to 2700fps with H322 in a 11" barrel.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

IMR 3031 or H-322 for a short barrel.

 

[NFAJohn]

2700fps with H322 in a 11" barrel.

Man I bet that was LOUD! Do tell the details of said rig......

 

[Niles Coyote]

AR-Comp has been great in my two 16" 308 AR barrels and performs well in my longer barreled bolts while using 168 and 175's.

 

[XLR308]

I second AR COMP, velocity is comparable to Varget but I get better accuracy with COMP only about 20 fps slower with 178amax.

 

[DrewC]

Maybe it’s my rifle or whatever but in my 16” gas gun AR Comp is smoking fast. I’m loaded up for tomorrow to verify my loads but with a load of 40.7 gn’s with 175 smk’s I’m getting a mv of 2512 (5 shots) with low single digit sd’s with easy sub MOA groups. Probably an average of .5-.6 moa. And zero signs of any pressure. Varget is close with speeds but around 15 FPS slower. Es / Sd’s and groups size is about the same though. I just want a few more range days to really be comfortable with what I’m seeing.

 

[OLD308]

I second the 8208 for chasing speed.

 

[NFAJohn]

Thank you everyone for the input. 8208 and AR Comp AR both available at my LGS.

Hornady 10th edition has loads listed for 8208, but not AR Comp. I pulled the Alliant website and it just shows 41.4 with a 175smk and 40.6 with a hornady 178bthp. If memory serves me correctly the 178gr eldx has more bearing surface than both of those projectiles.....where would you AR Comp fans suggest I start at? I was thinking 38.5 and work up in .3s looking for pressure. I may be ugly, but I’d like to keep my face in its current state of not being blown up.

 

[C_R_Slacker]

Tag

 

[SkyScrapin]

Man I bet that was LOUD! Do tell the details of said rig......

Not with a can on the end.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Keep in mind this is a 16" chrome lined factory DPMS barrel with carbine gas... because of that I started real low and was looking for a load that would not trash my brass. I didn't care how fast it would shoot, I just wanted it to be accurate. I'm using IMI brass that also has a little less case capacity compared to lapua/winchester. 38.6 was turning in about 2400fps with 168's.

In my bolt rifles with 175, you will find two nodes, one at or around 40 and a second at or around 41 in lapua brass.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My deer hunting experience was with the .30-'06 in Far Upstate NY. Because of terrain and trees, we seldom got shots of over 150yd, and I was using a 22" Win 70 and 165SGKs. I had some success using basic 'Reduced Recoil' Remington 125gr Core-Lokts, but I also adhered to the 'not so far' shot advice that was being shared about the load at the time.

I think that shorter barrels are better suited to shorter distances, and that the heavier bullets may not be particularly advantageous at distances of only out to 200yd. I think that when we change our rifles into minimal lengths, we change their fundamental natures, and should broaden our consideration of handloading strategies. Carbine length rifles are not so similar to the traditional deer rifle. The lighter weight bullets can allow the shorter barrel to deliver them at velocities that assure greater expansion.

I did some development using the Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tip in a 22" .30BR. The Nosler 125 was a solid winner for accuracy. It's also designed for deer, probably best out of smaller cartridges like the .30-30, .30BR, and maybe the 7.62x39 in a .308 bore, and probably good for larger chamberings in carbine lengths.

My thinking is that the shorter barrel probably puts the .308 into a velocity regime closer to those smaller cartridges. I suggest the 125BT with H322, W748, or AR Comp.

I ended up working with the 125BT, 125SMK, and 135SMK and IMR-4198 in the .30BR, which is probably also another good powder. I have been using it for my 7.62x39 Savage Scout 16-ish" with 110gr V-Max and GMX. The transition to heavier 125's should not be such a large jump for me there. IMHO, such a combination could turn my Scout into a Deer rifle for brushy country.

In general, I suggest a lighter weight bullet and a faster powder.

Greg

 

[NFAJohn]

I appreciate everyone’s input. Going to hit the LGS tomorrow and get a 5 pound AR Comp and a 1 pound 8208. When my rifle gets back and I get some time to load I’ll post up some numbers.

 

[NFAJohn]

Work has been crazy hectic, but I finally made it to the range. Ran some RL15 while waiting for Ar Comp to come in. Only problem....battery on my chrono was dead when I got to the farm.

I had very faint pressure signs at 42gr, was considering pushing to 43gr to see if I’ll find another node. The 41.7 load is nice though. Running the 178eldx in virgin Nosler brass Loaded to mag length.

Would yal push to 43 or settle? I’ll make it to shoot again this weekend and I’ll collect some chrono data.

 

[NFAJohn]

The 41.7 group

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Your point of impact stabilized at 41.1 and your vertical started to tighten up at 41.4. I would stay in that area.

Also, the 4895's were the go to powders for 308 gas guns a long time before Varget and RL15 existed.

 

[NFAJohn]

Your point of impact stabilized at 41.1 and your vertical started to tighten up at 41.4. I would stay in that area.

Ya that is kind of what I was thinking, pretty sure I'll run into pressure before I make the next node. I'm thinking I'll load three each at 41.1-42 in .1 increments and run them over the chrono and for groups.


Also, the 4895's were the go to powders for 308 gas guns a long time before Varget and RL15 existed.

Appreciate the advice

 

[NFAJohn]

I haven't had a chance to do more load development with AR Comp yet, but I did pop 3 of the 41.7gr loads over the chrono. Average was 2445 for three shots, SD is 4.5 and ES is 9.

Overall I'm not disappointed with these numbers at all, the barrel is new and i would think it will pick up some speed as I shoot it.

I'll report back when I try the AR Comp.

 

[Potss]

If you are still wanting to chase a little more velocity you may want to check out CFE223 and Power Pro 2000-MR. Both are a bit more temp sensitive but are likely to yield higher velocities than just about anything else in .308.

 

[NFAJohn]

If you are still wanting to chase a little more velocity you may want to check out CFE223 and Power Pro 2000-MR. Both are a bit more temp sensitive but are likely to yield higher velocities than just about anything else in .308.

As soon as work slows down I plan on chasing more speed. I have a ladder test of AR Comp loaded and will add CFE to the list if AR Comp doesn't get me to 2500. Honestly I'm supersonic past 1k so I'm not crazy motivated to chase it, but in the spirit of not leaving good enough alone I'll chase it. The real test will be on some pigs this weekend hopefully.

 

[stalwart300]

Both loads are shot from ar10 16" bartlein with rifle length gas system and axmc with bartlein 16" barrel.

110 vmax
47.3 gr h335
lapua brass

155 eldm
45.5 gr varget
Peterson spr

Both shoot one hole groups.

 

[Potss]

Do you have velocities on those loads by any chance?

 

[FishDr]

Like was mentioned above by Greg and Potss, lighter bullets and a different powder might be in order. My scout 16.5 inch 308 rifle produces consistent 1/2 inch accuracy with 150 gr bullets using 50 gr of PP-2000-MR in LC once fired brass. Velocity of the SMK (2156) is 2740, velocity of the 150 Hornady interlock is ab 2745. POI is very similar to 400 and it anchors deer - haven't tried on pigs yet.

No can, it is LOUD!!!! Wear ear pro.
Edited with actual chrono data now that I've checked.

 

[Shadow knows]

I have a couple 308’s, one likes heavy one likes lite. I got the lite one on RL15 however I would try RL16 now if I ever shot it.
The other it ran 175 on 4166 now I run 180 Berger’s on varget.
Depends on how tight of group you want but you either pick the bullet and find the powder or pick the powder you want and find the bullet.
Only you weapon will tell what it wants.