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Yes, their should definitely be a "Poor Peoples' Salty Vagina" thread elsewhere.Please stop going on tangents. It ruins this. I’ll make you a different thread if you want to talk about price there.
I just want my Federal Gold Medal 215 Match primers. Preferably 1k or more.
Better get used to seeing prices and availability like this. Don't see it changing much anytime soon. Demand is going exceed supply by a considerable margin for years to come and don't be fooled thinking these companies aren't watching what's happening.
Things will always be worth what people are willing to pay for them.
We've spend 2 years teaching the industry that we are willing to pay 200-300% more for ammo and reloading components. We shouldn't expect them to forget that.
FWIW, Stoller is a BIG believer in monopoly power. While monopolies 1) can happen, and 2) can be disciplined, it is the exception, rather than the rule for them to be so. Also, you don't want to conflate multiple issues. One is ammuntition, which is somewhat consolidated, and the other is ammunition components, which is not only unconsolidated, but also generally nothing but a marketing business.Demand will continue to exceed supply, but not because we're still buying at panic levels.
This article is an interesting read on the subject:
What the Great Ammunition Shortage Says About Inflation
Concentration is increasing prices and keeping them high. The ammunition duopoly and the "Great Ammunition Shortage" is just one example.mattstoller.substack.com
It was posted earlier on the hide. It's written by someone completely outside the firearms industry, so with no ties to Vista or Olin.
TLDR: The industry is now consolidated enough that we're not likely to see ammo prices go back to normal without some sort of major shakeup.
With only two companies controlling nearly all domestic manufacturing, they can manipulate production to keep prices high (by restricting supply), and they've been open about that with investors. There's plenty of incentive for them to maintain the perception of a shortage to keep margins high, and basically none for them to go back to pre-pandemic levels of inventory surplus.
A few quotes from the CEO of Vista that paint the picture pretty well:
"Because of some of the consolidation we've done with Remington, even if you look long term, we don't see the same type of price compression the industry may have experienced in previous times."
"Now with ammunition being the largest part of our business. I mean, clearly, buying a Remington, we've created what we feel like is an even more disciplined industry now as we go forward. We've got, I think, like competitors in the sense that they watch growth, they watch their margin profiles. And we feel like we've got a disciplined industry."
And I've mentioned previously that we studied, as best we can…industry capacity and making sure that we're not only managing our capacity, but very mindful of what's being brought into the industry, so we don't get over our skis, if you will."
By getting over their skis, he's talking about ending up in a situation where production is too high and is negatively impacting their margins by causing prices to drop. Meaning enough of a surplus that ammo is sitting on the shelves. If you can charge 100% more for something, you only have to make half as much of it. And if that creates a perception of shortage, even better because it increases turnover.
We've spend 2 years teaching the industry that we are willing to pay as much as 200-300% more that we were a few years ago for ammo and reloading components. We shouldn't expect them to forget that.
I agree. A couple weeks ago it was $39.99.$60/lb?!! You guys must be pretty desperate
HAHA. Years to come. You crack me up.Better get used to seeing prices and availability like this. Don't see it changing much anytime soon. Demand is going exceed supply by a considerable margin for years to come and don't be fooled thinking these companies aren't watching what's happening.
Things will always be worth what people are willing to pay for them.
Brownells has cci 34, LR military primers in stock right now, good luckAnyone seen any Large rifle primers lately anywhere?
Please tell me where so I can stop being stupid.I buy it cheaper everyday, and you could too if people quit paying stupid prices for supplies. The businesses are paying attention and will keep raising prices until the fools quit paying outlandish prices.
Stuff was pretty high during the Obama years, but 2017-2018 price moderated.
True dat ... it's rich to hear people say "Stop buying and prices will go down" ... without an alternative other than simply "Leave the guns in the safe". At some point, this will all equalize and prices will meet availability. But not today, and probably not tomorrow. So until then, I pay a premium for what I can't do without, and use my stock on-hand for the activities that I consider to be my priorities. Did I pay more than I wanted to? "Yes" ... but that answer is valid for about 187 other things right now, not just reloading supplies. Life goes on ... Pay or don't shoot ... and always remember: "THERE'S NO CRYING IN RELOADING".Please tell me where so I can stop being stupid.
Prices and availability during the Obama years was not at the same level we are seeing now.
Do you guys stop putting gas in your cars or do you pay the prices at the pumps? Do you stop paying the grocery stores or are you still feeding your families?
I work in an industry every day that people pay what they have to out of need, not because they have nothing better to spend their money on.
Sometimes it's not a choice, or maybe it is and we can all just raise are fists up and say we aren't going to shoot until you guys drop your prices. Good luck with that.
Supply is not just limited to demand. The Obama years did not have a major pandemic impacting every facet of life like what we are experiencing now. There's a generation of people now that feel like they don't have to work, especially after getting paid to not do so. And the quality of a lot of the workforce is garbage, I see it every day. This causes a strain on companies just to keep their doors open as it has a trickle affect from the bottom up for getting supplies, components, fuel and having to pay people more than they are worth because you can't find help. Not to mention insurances going up and mandates to pay people extra sick time that are out with COVID.
Anyone have a kid in college? Please tell me how easy it would be for people to just stop sending their children to college so these institutions stop ass raping everyone. Never going to happen and tuition will just keep increasing because people will continue paying it.
Just did a market analysis to raise our labor rate up $20.00 an hour because everyone else in the area is doing it. It's never going to go in the opposite direction, I promise.
I could go on and on about how life as we used to know it is gone. Bottom line is we are going in exactly the direction the people that drive their car wearing their mask want us to go in.
Both Powders are sold out now.IMR 4320 and 7828 8 pounders at Powder valley.
Yeah seriously starting to consider turning my 6.5PRC build into a whats the cheapest thing to reload for build.6.5 PRC brass
They must be smoking the good stuff
Shop Rifle & Shotgun Reloading Supplies | Dies | Bullets | Hulls | Wads | Powder - Precision Reloading
Shop online for shotshell and metallic reloading supplies, shooting supplies, metallic presses, rifle reloading components, shotshell reloading components, shooting accessories, rifle reloading brass and Bullets.www.precisionreloading.com
they only let u buy 5- 1lb'rs of any powderGid they only let you buy 5 of the Sta Bil
IMR 4064 works better for me in .308.BL-C(2) is in stock at Midway, have used it successfully for 308 and 30-06 loads with long bullets that intrude deep into the case. High load density. Listed in the Barnes load manual/web site for their 180 TTSX.
Hodgdon BLC2 Smokeless Gun Powder 1 lb
Hodgdon Powder offers the largest selection of quality smokeless propellants for any reloading application. Hodgdon BL-C(2) is a spherical powder that...www.midwayusa.com
Worked well for me.
If you’re anywhere near southern NC I’ve got an 8lb jug of 4064I’ve got in stock alerts set up for 4064 all over the internet.
I like nice jugsIf you’re anywhere near southern NC I’ve got an 8lb jug of 4064
Product Total | $216.99 |
Shipping Total | $15.70 |
HazMat Charge | $15.99 |
Tax | $16.79 |
Total | $265.47 |
CCI BR4 primers at brownells. $140/1k. Limit 1.
CCI 41 primers at midway. $100/1k. Limit 1.
What caliber are you using Ramshot on?Ramshot TAC 8lbers. Finally got one!
Ramshot TAC Smokeless Gun Powder 8 lb
Ramshot Smokeless Powder is newly manufactured, meaning it hasn't been pulled from loaded ammunition and it's not military surplus powder. Every powder...www.midwayusa.com
Product Total $216.99 Shipping Total $15.70 HazMat Charge $15.99 Tax $16.79 Total $265.47
223 mainly. Some 30-30. Gonna start loading 308 with it as well.What caliber are you using Ramshot on?
You mean signing up to be notified by the retailer? By the time that happens its gone. Your best bet is probably discord.Subscribing! I keep missing out on H4350...
I have started to wonder if Google fucks with email traffic that is related to firearms... Not necessarily flagging or blocking it, but slowing it down or giving it lower priority.Yep, that's what's happening. By the time an email comes through, it's gone.