Putting together a 20" 6.5 creed gas gun to hunt with, probably going to use a bullet in the 130 gr range. I have a 24" 6.5 creed that I use just to target shoot with. H4350 and 140 eld-m's have been great. Just wondering if there is any other powder I should try besides H4350? Or just stick with it and go.
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Powder other than H4350 for 20" 6.5 Creed?
- Thread starter jda2631
- Start date
RL16, or varget would be what i would use. Once H4350 became unicorn dust i quit using it. found RL16 to work just fine with 140s, 123-130 varget or rl16.
H4831sc all the way. I can push 140 gr bullets to 2950 fps with a compressed load of 47 grains in hornady brass in my 26" barrel and you still get temp stability. Sierra's loading book is the only one i know of that calls out a load for H4831sc but it works great! 46.5 grains is over max but is also a safe and accurate load in my rifle 2875ish if I remember right.
https://sierrabulletsblog.com/2017/01/09/sierra-bullets-6-5-creedmoor-load-data/
https://sierrabulletsblog.com/2017/01/09/sierra-bullets-6-5-creedmoor-load-data/
Second the recommendation for RL-16. Might be even more temp insensitive than H4350.
In my 18" 6.5 creed RL-17 was the ticket. Shooting 130 ELD-M's and started with H-4350, ran into pressure at 2530 fps,. Best groups were around 1 MOA. Did a OCW with RL-17, watched it go from 1.25 5-shot groups to the low .4's and velocity is 2730 fps. Still haven't finalized the load yet as SD's are in the high teens. will try a couple different primers to see if I can lower the SD.
4451, RL15, Varget. Your burn percentage wont be very good with 4831SC in a 20" barrel.
my experience was the same as corndogs, need a longer tube for H4831sc.
I see that RL16 is temp stable, what about RL17 though? I'm not real familiar with Alliant powders. I live in MS, and do a lot of shooting in the warmer months so temp stability is a major plus. I'll be shooting in 100 degree weather down to 20 degree.
My 26" loves it. 23" I ended up dumping powder out of the suppressor. I wish I had QL to see what the burn percentage is in a 26". In 23" it was around 95%. So I was dumping about 2.4g of powder into my can every shot. In mine it must have burned in the can and not built up much. It made it hot super fast. I thought it was just the short barrel at first{LOL 23 short}, but I switched to 123s and RL15, and now 140s and h4350 and it it doesn't heat up the can like that with either.
I bought some Reloder 16 when it was first introduced and found it to be more than acceptable to H4350. Once I tested its temp stability, I was convinced! I sold off 30 some odd pounds of H4350 and replaced it all with Reloder 16.
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Looks like I'll have to give 16 a try! Ppl using it, what's your barrel length and bullet weight?
I'm running 2860fps in starline brass with 46.9 grains reloader 26 and 147eld out of my 24inch slow tikka barrel
39.36 grains of Reloder 16, Alpha brass, CCI BR2 primers, 140 ELDM seated at 0.020" with 0.002" neck tension gives me 2814 FPS out of my 26" DTA barrel (Benchmark, if I remember correctly) with a SilencerTech suppressor
Not really in a 6.5 creed, its a shade fast like varget is and its a shade temperature sensitive.
Might be alright for plinking and lighter bullets where staying exactly in tune year round is a lesser concern but I dont think it is the best suited for match ammo when there are better options.
I guess, Ive heard varget 4064 and rl15 all mentioned over the years. 308 is a bigger bore which requires a faster powder to stay in the ideal pressure zones and mainly for the lighter bullets there as well. They use 4064 in a lot of stuff. I used it at one time in my 3006 with 150s because thats what the old timers did but I get more speed easier with h4350 now.
The larger the bore, the more volume is created compared to a smaller bore as the bullet moves down the barrel. To fill that additional bore volume at the same rate to maintain velocity you need a faster powder.
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You mean it might be OK for plinking and light bullets but not match ammo in the 6.5 creed specifically, I assume from your response.
Yeah, thats what I meant, for the creed. I think in 308 it is still a super powder aside from the temp stability issue which varget is better at while maintaining a comparable burn rate to 4064.
This is a paper that goes over is a bit http://kwk.us/powders.html
I cant find the other paper that Im really looking over but the one above goes into the sectional density and expansion ration of the powder and the bore etc.
Goshs, Did not mean to start a war. IMR 4064 is about the only powder that is around locally . So that what I starter with for m 6.5 CM and works fair out to 500 yds. But thanks for the help, I am looking for some 4350 but not much luck.
Just started reloading 6.5 CM using 147 gr. Hornady ELD Match and I'm using Alliant Reloder 26. We'll see how it goes.
VooDoo
VooDoo
Would it be safe to say that 4350 would be the best place to start with loading for RPR 6.5 CM with Sierra 120 gr. I also load for 223 RPR with Sierra 69 gr.? I can sure use the help, Thanks
Why such a light bullet? RPR has a 24" barrel. My RPR loves 140 eld-m's with 42.3gr H4350.
Nice work with the OP on this thread! I'm in a similar situation getting ready to do load development for my .243 RPR. I do have Quickload and have been doing considerable research both online and from the many manuals I possess. I did save the link to that paper you referenced and I'll review it sometime next week.
H4350 is a really hard powder to beat in the creed case but with the light bullet in the creed and the fairly heavy bullet in 223 I think varget would do well also and you could use the varget in your 223 as well. So if sharing is attractive to you then think about it, if not 4350 will do pretty much whatever you want it to in the creed.
That said, I too question along with jda2631, why a 120 gr bullet? If you are varmint hunting then ok but otherwise youre losing out on a bunch of the ballistic coefficient that makes the 6.5 so appealing. The 6.5 grendel shines with the 120 classes just because it doesnt have enough space for powder to push the heavies accordingly, creed doesnt have that issue and could take the performance up a notch.
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Reason for the 120 gr. is that not knowing at the start I purchased 500 of the 120, for that was what the 60 Hornady that I go for the brass was. I have just purchased 100 new Norma cases. I will move up to 140's soon. As 7980 had said that varget works well for the 223 and other have said that varget and IMR 4064 are close, so could I stay with the 4064 for it is always on the shelf.
Ya but I struggle with Varget and ES with the 123s in a Creed. It was great in the smaller 47 case but not for me in the larger case. I find pressure well before I get enough case volume set of the lowdown
RL-17 at 40.4 gns around -2700 fps 24" barrel 140 gn bullets. Superformance at 44 gns, around -2700 fps 24"barrel 140 gn bullets. These are my alternates to H4350. I searched these out because when I started reloading a year ago, I could not get H4350. Now, I don't need to, though I have some. And get the same performance using 41 gns of it. (note all these charges are under max, which was a self-imposed spec of mine) From what I have read, Hornady developed the 6.5 CM and they originally used H4350 as the powder in their Amax 140 gn cartridges. IOWs, H4350 was the original powder used. I'm guessing that is the reason it became so popular in our crowd .
I'm using an RPR and these loads group at 1/2" and I've ran them out successfully hitting 8" & 12" steel plates to 800 yds. My rifle 'likes' 140-142 gn bullets and MVs +/- 2700 fps. They shoot as well or better than any of the factory box ammo I've tried (which has been most of them. Hornady, Fed, Win, Nos.
And thanx to the other contributors to this thread as I've got a couple new powder ideas now. In fact, I can thank forum members here and on Accurate Shooter and 6.5 CM and Youtube (Johnny Reloading Bench, Ultimate Reloader, Bolt Action Reloading) for giving me the ideas for the powders I am using (above) and starting points (charge weights). I've got 12 loads I have high confidence in. Fired a total of 313 rds, counting cold bore shots. I did this by doing pretty much the same as you are doing. Get on line and search around and ask around. I'm sure, my doing that, is the reason my round count developing these loads is what it is. Good luck to you!
PS: these loads work in my RRAs (AR) though slower MVs due to its 20 " bbl. Mag dimensions limit me to 2.80 & 2.81, so my COALs here and above have been to that length.
I'm using an RPR and these loads group at 1/2" and I've ran them out successfully hitting 8" & 12" steel plates to 800 yds. My rifle 'likes' 140-142 gn bullets and MVs +/- 2700 fps. They shoot as well or better than any of the factory box ammo I've tried (which has been most of them. Hornady, Fed, Win, Nos.
And thanx to the other contributors to this thread as I've got a couple new powder ideas now. In fact, I can thank forum members here and on Accurate Shooter and 6.5 CM and Youtube (Johnny Reloading Bench, Ultimate Reloader, Bolt Action Reloading) for giving me the ideas for the powders I am using (above) and starting points (charge weights). I've got 12 loads I have high confidence in. Fired a total of 313 rds, counting cold bore shots. I did this by doing pretty much the same as you are doing. Get on line and search around and ask around. I'm sure, my doing that, is the reason my round count developing these loads is what it is. Good luck to you!
PS: these loads work in my RRAs (AR) though slower MVs due to its 20 " bbl. Mag dimensions limit me to 2.80 & 2.81, so my COALs here and above have been to that length.
RL-16 is great.
In my 23" benchmark the same 41.6grn load gives me 40fps more speed and less pressure than H4350.
It shoots almost as tight. H4350 groups about .13 mils and RL-16 groups about .15 mils with the exact same load.
41.6 grns, hornady new brass, 140 amax 2.86 oal and remington 9-1/2 gives me 2710fps with H4350 and 2750 with RL-16. Slightly lower primer edge flattening with the RL-16.
In my 23" benchmark the same 41.6grn load gives me 40fps more speed and less pressure than H4350.
It shoots almost as tight. H4350 groups about .13 mils and RL-16 groups about .15 mils with the exact same load.
41.6 grns, hornady new brass, 140 amax 2.86 oal and remington 9-1/2 gives me 2710fps with H4350 and 2750 with RL-16. Slightly lower primer edge flattening with the RL-16.
Wow, let me try and make that more clear for simple folks....
I have tried 4831sc along with other people I shoot with and we have gotten pressure before desired velocity. So.... it doesn’t work well in my specific rifle.
Lay off the corn dogs.... ?
How do you know your only getting 2750? You might have a tight barrel. I can easily get 2900 with 4831sc in a 26" barrel. Just curious some guys just essentially guess and dont really chrono.
I should edit by saying my loads have been shot over both a labradar and magnetospeed.
I shoot over a magnetospeed. H4350 41.8g is the most accurate charge weight for me in both pederson and lapua brass. Using the same brass, 47.7g of R26 gets me 2909 but it is rough on primer pockets. Using Hornady brass, I went up to 48g + using R26 and didn’t gain anything. I was honestly excited to try H4831sc but I just didn’t see results.
I agree on the H4350...anything between 41.5 and 42.2 for me is lights out all day every day.
I have been getting good results with 43.3 gr of AA4350. I’m getting right around 2700fps out of a 24” barrel pushing a 140 ELD-M. I have also got some good results with RL15 with some crazy velocities. I have been sticking to the slower AA4350 load to hopefully extend my barrel life and brass life a little. The AA4350 is a compressed load but I am getting no pressure signs at all with it.
