Precision AR .22LR Upper?

[anon]

It seems I should refresh the view more often too. I duped Hellbender's post.

 

[TimK]

That's interesting. After my problems with mine, I called CLE and talked to Frank. He said they hadn't had good luck with the Black Dog magazines. Based on what he said, I never bothered to try one.

Speaking of cleaning, I also found that beeswax lubricated bullets (Match, Edge) fouled up the action really quickly. The Paraffin lubed bullets (Target, Club) are much cleaner. It appears the gun will run without cleaning with paraffin lube long enough to get through a 150 round match. Not so much with goopy beeswax.

 

[anon]

That's interesting. After my problems with mine, I called CLE and talked to Frank. He said they hadn't had good luck with the Black Dog magazines. Based on what he said, I never bothered to try one.

Speaking of cleaning, I also found that beeswax lubricated bullets (Match, Edge) fouled up the action really quickly. The Paraffin lubed bullets (Target, Club) are much cleaner. It appears the gun will run without cleaning with paraffin lube long enough to get through a 150 round match. Not so much with goopy beeswax.

I'll take good luck any day. My sample size was one upper and five mags. Frank would surely know best.

I have also only ever had that upper on a Bushmaster or Rock River lower, both from back before there was any hurry to get quantity out the door.

 

[flatland1]

Just ordered three of the smoke 10rd mags from Blackdog - I've never really cared for the M261 insert mags, so hopefully, these new mags will make shooting the .22RF upper I built on CLE parts. Thanks for the info guys.

I had a complete service rifle .22RF upper from CLE back in the '90s while I was still in the hunt for leg points. After I legged-out, I sold that upper to a good friend, and he legged-out a few months later. I got to missing that .22RF upper, so ordered a Douglas match bbl & modified M261 unit from CLE a couple of years ago. It went together just fine on an Aero Precision upper that I'd ordered w/o forward assist, and I put the comleted upper on an Aero lower with a Magpul ACS carbine buttstock, and put a RRA 2-stage NM trigger in that lower. The hammer spring on these RRA triggers is too stout to let the M261 unit cycle - at least with std vel match ammo. I bent the spring's legs to reduce tension, but it didn't help much. Wound up buying a Geissele B-G25-E trigger from Brownells, which seems to have fixed the problem, plus being a very nice trigger. Hopefully, the Blackdog mags I ordered will work well, and I'll get more use out of this little rig. It's an accurate little sucker - I've had it out-shoot a couple of my precision bolt repeaters (Stiller 2500XR & 40X) on steel at 200yds at least once. And that was with a random left-over lot of SK Std+ that I'd been testing in the bolt rifles. Haven't tried it with any of the better grades of SK, and am looking forward to that.

 

[TimK]

Please report back if the black dog mags work for you. I'll get some if so.

Tracking says my Eley Target and Club test lots of ammo show up today. I'm excited to see if any of them work.

 

[Hsvhammer]

I bought a Beyer 18" barrel with just one step down to .750 so I could mount same plane fixed sights when I want to shoot irons. I have the CMMG BCG w/forward assist which I have to use frequently on the first round from the mag. Black Dog mags run flawlessly. I have the Better Bilt S&W adapter on order.
I have not yet shot for groups but expect good things. Next up is a .22lr 10.5" Lothar-Walther barrel for my SBR and a SILENCER.

 

[ShooterwithNoName]

That's an awesome build Hsvhammer, I like the idea of the .750" step to mount something for front iron sights. How do you like that Beyer barrel?

My plan is to have a barrel turned to mimic my service rifle barrel. 20" HBAR profile basically a .22LR copy of my .223 rig to practice off hand here at home anytime on the cheap. I can shoot centerfire here at the house but with the volume I shoot I figure it would annoy the neighbors even though they are a ways off.

I'm running a Vortex 1-4x on my service rifle now. But I like to practice with A2 every once in a while too. Having the option to mount irons makes it nice imo.

 

[flatland1]

Please report back if the black dog mags work for you. I'll get some if so.

Tracking says my Eley Target and Club test lots of ammo show up today. I'm excited to see if any of them work.

Sorry to have taken so long to check back on this thread - all three of the Black Dog mags work flawlessly in my CLE .22RF upper. Just wish they'd see fit to make these 10rd mags with the same body size as military 20rd mags so I should shoot prone or off the bench with them. These are the same length as a GI 30rd mag.

I also bought a Geissele B-G2S-E trigger from Brownells while they were on sale for $135, and it works great in the lower I have on the CLE.

 

[Hoser]

Just wish they'd see fit to make these 10rd mags with the same body size as military 20rd mags so I should shoot prone or off the bench with them. These are the same length as a GI 30rd mag.

Hacksaw to the rescue...

 

[c_anthony]

I just finished doing a dedicated ar in .22 for my son to train with until hes ready to step up to the bigger caliber in this platform.

I spent a bit of time searching and deciding on something that would give me
around 1moa accuracy
not cost a fortune
look, weigh, and function exactly like my rifles so he can have the best training experience with it

I settled on the following and I am very very happy with it

For the lower I took one of my tax stamped mil specd lowers that was already built
the only things i needed to change were running a Catch 22 bolt catch
and a Catch 22 S&W mag adapter for the mag well
(both of these were around $30)
also running
RRA 2 stage trigger
milspec buffer setup
moe stock

for the upper i went with
RTB (made by CMMG) 16” M4 profile barrel
I cut the barrel down to 9” so he can handle it a little easier and put a griffin 3 lug adapter on it so I can run my griffin can on it when I need to do some quite varmint hunting

RTB .22 dedicated bolt (made by CMMG)
Raptor charging handle
9” quad rail ( i think YHM)
ARMS Buis set
Aimpoint comp m2
Magpul sling mount
Magpul hand stop
Magpul sling

This setup functions like a proper AR does
(bolt locks back on an empty mag,
bolt stays locked back when the mag is released etc)

It is a lot of fun to shoot especially for my little guy
We zerod it with the CCI AR Tactical ammo and have shot it with a lot of other high velocity .22 ammo and it holds a consistent 1 MOA at 50yds
a little closer to 1.5” MOA at 100 yds

Biggest thing is it didnt cost a fortune

The Right to Bear branded barrel and bolt are made by CMMG for RTB and are a little cheaper in price

I built this setup with a lot of spare parts I had in my parts bin
but I wouldnt hesitate to build this again if I had to buy everything brand new

 

[Sgeorge]

It sounds like there are several great options for a dedicated AR upper or barrel. Has anyone tried the Volquartsen barrels in an upper? I've been looking at one to have a dedicated AR that will shoot with my other rimfires, instead of the average at best groups I'm getting with my 15-22 PC.

 

[padom]

Keystone Accuracy Green Mountain Match 22lr AR barrel/upper if you're looking for accuracy. Mine is a tack driver

 

[68hoyt]

Keystone Accuracy Green Mountain Match 22lr AR barrel/upper if you're looking for accuracy. Mine is a tack driver

I just read the other day keystone quit the 22 upper business , I don’t know if it’s true

 

[Sgeorge]

What about a JP?

 

[Hoser]

I just read the other day keystone quit the 22 upper business , I don’t know if it’s true

100% true.

 

[padom]

Its not true at all. They are not making them at this very moment because they are slammed busy and they take a while to make. Lots of machine work on their AR22's. They dont use adapters and barrel extensions like most others. The barrel extension, extractor grooves, shoulder, feed ramp are all machine right into the barrel blank.

They will be doing them again in the next 1-3 months once they catch up.

 

[padom]

Ill shoot some 10x5's at 50yd with mine and post up the results. Havent done it in a while but when I did its was shooting clover leafs with CCI SV.

 

[TimK]

Someone at Keystone should tell the guy who answers the phone, then. I called and spoke to whomever answered and was told pretty directly that they were done with the .22 upper business. No mention was made that production was only temporarily suspended. I wasn't impressed with they way they handle the phone there the two times I called, so I guess I'm not surprised.

 

[meestermeetch]

I have a 4” CMMG barrel bolt in an aero upper that is surprising accurate. Has anyone tested the longer CMMG barrel or the rainier arms option? Also I was told a while ago that you have to “spring it” for subs if you want to use typical good .22lr ammo not the HV stuff, is this something anyone has bothered doing?

 

[erik72]

When you get a chance to shoot this barrel would you let me know what kind of accuracy it's giving you? They have a 10.5" stainless barrel that looks great if I don't end up going Keystone or CLE. Unfortunately a hold has been put on this project until I graduate this May, but I'm thinking this would make a nice graduation present to myself!

Ben

Well, I know this thread is pretty old but since I commented on my Lothar-Walther barreled 22LR, I did purchase a Keystone Accuracy Upper. Both are 18" heavy contour. The Lothar Walther is a constant taper down to about .740 at the muzzle and the K.A. is more of an HBAR profile with .750 at the muzzle. They are both threaded. I really like the KA & the way he machines the barrel breech so the collar is not necessary. While I can't complain about the CMMG collar much, this just seems like a better solution. Both shoot lights out! Very accurate but I'll be making no "moa all day long claims" as I'm sure both barrels will outperform my skills. I don't get out to shoot much so when I do I end up taking too many rifles and I get rushed to shoot them all. I need to take these two out by themselves one day and just spend a few hours wringing out the best possible accuracy I can. Both of them feed everything I put in them. The best groups I got with the LW barrel at 100yds were 1.5" with Aquila Golden Eagle. I have one box left and can't seem to find it. I haven't shot the KA enough to cite a memorable group. If there's still interest, I'll post some pics.

 

[68hoyt]

Did you get your keystone after they said they were through making them ?
which do you like best ?

 

[erik72]

Did you get your keystone after they said they were through making them ?
which do you like best ?

I ordered mine on April 10 of this year. I think it was 3-wks to receive it.
Just looking at their Instagram, I think he got real busy with Vudoo and RimX barreled actions right about that time. I would have been really disappointed it he had told me they weren't doing AR22s anymore.
I'd have to say the Keystone Accuracy is my favorite though I haven't shot it nearly enough yet to speak to accuracy. I've been in this AR22 rabbit hole for several years now. The Tactical Solutions is stupid reliable. I have iron sights on it and that's primarily what my daughters shoot. I have a 18" SST Lothar Walther w/CMMG bolt, a 20" CMMG Barrel/Bolt Combo, and a 2A Armament barrel/bolt combo. The only one missing is the JP/Nordic/RRA barrel/bolt assembly. I may yet try to attain one of those.

 

[68hoyt]

I’m wanting to put together or buy an upper , 18-20 , mid weight , accurate though , black dog mags is a plus , since it looks like you have a little experience what do you suggest ?
I have a cmmg (wasp?)
Tacsol lite weight

 

[ToddM]

What about a JP?

I've seen mixed results with JP's uppers/supermatch 22 kits, a couple have posted great groups with theirs but others seem to struggle, myself included. JP's 22 barrels/uppers appear to be more about reliability than max precision. The instructions for the JP Supermatch 22 barrel kit say you can expect 1.5-2MOA for cheaper target/match ammo, 2-3 MOA for high velocity stuff, and you "may" get down to 1MOA with top end match ammo at 50yds, and that would basically reflect my experience. My guess is JP didn't use a super tight chamber in order to ensure great reliability.

My groups were around 0.75-1.25" with Wolf/CCI Std/Eley Match, RWS, I sent it back to JP and they were great to deal with, they built it into their own upper and tested it around 0.5" with $20/box Eley Tenex, and 0.8" with PMC match ammo. I will say it's never had a failure yet, but max accuracy does not seem to be it's mission. The one thing I did notice was that in collecting various brass it didn't seem like the firing pin hits were consistent or super hard and evaluating my groups they string more vertically than horizontally so I wonder if it's not getting consistent ignition. I haven't had it out since JP sent it back, my Volquartsen just shoots so much better than that when I'm taking a .22 to the range I just take that one now.

If I was doing it over, since it's almost $1000 to build one of JP's 22 barrel kits into an upper, I'd get something done by Keystone or CLE with a tight match chamber, figure out what ammo it likes best and just feed it that.

 

[68hoyt]

Thanks for the reply , I had looked at keystone but they quit making them or so they say , I will check back with them , the jp was also a choice but once I started leaning that direction I started finding more reviews that were hit or miss on being super accurate and like you say more towards reliability

 

[68hoyt]

I emailed keystone and asked if they were making the 22 uppers again, johns says “I am not”

 

[ToddM]

That's unfortunate, by all accounts I've read their stuff was top notch.

 

[erik72]

I’m wanting to put together or buy an upper , 18-20 , mid weight , accurate though , black dog mags is a plus , since it looks like you have a little experience what do you suggest ?
I have a cmmg (wasp?)
Tacsol lite weight

The CMMG bolt is the most supported out there right now. My 18" Lothar Walther barrel shoots great. I've had several 1.5" (10 shot) groups at 100yds with it with a couple different ammos. Once nice thing about the CMMG setup is that you can add the redi-mag adapter or the catch22 bolt-hold-open and use the Smith&Wesson magazines for last bolt hold open function. The S&W mags work great. The Black Dog mags work very well to but the bolt is stopped on the plastic follower on the last shot. I've also added some weight behind the bolt (borebuddy.com) to reduce bolt bounce a little too. For me this resulted in a smoother cycle. There's a fella that goes by Steel Shooter at rimfirecentral.com selling an 18" Lothar Walther Barrel right now. I think the 18" version I (we) have was a limited run but the 16" version on their website has been shooting great for many I've read too.

 

[68hoyt]

Thanks for the info

 

[danr]

Had a Keystone dedicated 22rf rifle built a while back using a Benchmade 2 groove barrel, very accurate

View attachment 6955384View attachment 6955385

UBR stocks sure do make a rifle look good