Precision rimfire state of the Union for 2025, help get me up to speed please…
- Thread starter jbell
- Start date
This Varmint Al website says that tuners work by launching slower bullets with a higher launch angle than faster ones. The website includes a chart illustrating the trajectories of slower and faster rounds, showing the slower and faster rounds arriving at the same elevation at 50 yards. Varmint Al is describing positive compensation where tuner settings are established for fixed distances.
Readers may wonder if the same tuner setting is supposed work at a variety of distances, is the Varmint Al tuner explanation missing something.
I don’t really buy positive compensation. Especially not with a heavy profile barrel. There are some slo mo videos out there you can watch and you won’t see any vibrations in the barrel. I’ve seen ammo with a high(er) ES shoot better than ammo with a low ES at 50. Obviously the farther you shoot the more the ES would come into play. Also, if tuners work by positive compensation then you can only tune for 1 distance. In which case why would they be marketed towards the PRS crowd….. more money
Top to bottom, Anschutz AT-X, factory barrel .900"
RimX AT-X, Bartlien #14
My brothers Anschutz AT-X custom barrel, 25" 1.15 cylinder.
All three weigh 20 lbs
Rimfire NRL/PRS is relatively new so a lot of what has been tested has been for a fixed distance. We shoot 50 to 300 and ELR guys out there at 700 yards. You can find a tune that will work good at 50 and at distance. Lot testing is similar as you are finding a lot that works for that particular rifle, at the end of the day it is simply timing. Set up a Garmin and record free recoil vs putting your shoulder into it. You have changed timing.
Indeed. If a setting is good for any .22LR distance is puts into doubt the PC explanation for how a tuner does what it does, unless PC is valid only up to a certain distance and something else explains how tuners work beyond that.
The suggestion that a Garmin (or any chronograph) can record changed timing is curious and puzzling. Variations in rifle set up can influence what a tuner does, which is why it's so critical to set up at the bench the same way when using the same tuner setting. Change set up and the rifle may respond accordingly with different results on target.
Perhaps this may be a reason militating against the use of a tuner in a variety of changing shooting positions to achieve repeatable and consistent results.
I think he means exit timing. Because changing from free recoil to a good shouldered position could change the muzzle velocity. But I’ve only heard that about centerfire. I’d be interested to see if it made a difference with a heavy PRS rimfire rifle. I’m guessing it doesn’t but who knows.
Chronographs don't measure exit timing.
No one can know whether or how much changing from free recoil to shouldered changes the muzzle velocity. The MV of a round is not known before it's fired, no matter how the rifle is held or not held.
Exactly, we don't know what the speed is going to be but we do know the range expected therefore we can TUNE for that. This is not rocket science but you have to understand how things work to understand what is happening. This is no different than racing, you set up the car to the track conditions or tune the engine based on weather conditions.
Now that the thread has been properly derailed with ANOTHER tuner debate... how about mils vs MOA?
Since Mike left Vudoo, they seem significantly less focused on rimfire and more focused on pistol games. Their actions are still good, but the barrel work I got from them hasn't been great. If they wanted to put focus elsewhere, I wish they would have just opened up action sales to the community but instead they gave DI some exclusivity. As much as I like the guys at DI and they seem to do great work, it's pretty gay that you only have one shop who can order actions. Also gay that we'll probably never see their billet mags, but thankfully L3i seems willing to pick up the slack.
I considered doing a DPX style mod myself on a RimX since Zermatt is way easier to get information from, but until they go back to using harder 4XXX series steel on the bolts, I'm not interested. Also, the swept knob is gay as AIDS.
Bergara's are popular and well designed for a production action but they're the equivalent of a R700 action. They can require a lot of work to the action and by the time you do it, you could have just bought a custom action so why bother?
Non-700 pattern rimfire guns don't really interest me. The wide array of aftermarket parts and the ability to match a centerfire rig is a requirement for me.
Really hoping L3i knocks their Stinger action out of the park because all current offerings seem to have their own major flaws.
Since Mike left Vudoo, they seem significantly less focused on rimfire and more focused on pistol games. Their actions are still good, but the barrel work I got from them hasn't been great. If they wanted to put focus elsewhere, I wish they would have just opened up action sales to the community but instead they gave DI some exclusivity. As much as I like the guys at DI and they seem to do great work, it's pretty gay that you only have one shop who can order actions. Also gay that we'll probably never see their billet mags, but thankfully L3i seems willing to pick up the slack.
I considered doing a DPX style mod myself on a RimX since Zermatt is way easier to get information from, but until they go back to using harder 4XXX series steel on the bolts, I'm not interested. Also, the swept knob is gay as AIDS.
Bergara's are popular and well designed for a production action but they're the equivalent of a R700 action. They can require a lot of work to the action and by the time you do it, you could have just bought a custom action so why bother?
Non-700 pattern rimfire guns don't really interest me. The wide array of aftermarket parts and the ability to match a centerfire rig is a requirement for me.
Really hoping L3i knocks their Stinger action out of the park because all current offerings seem to have their own major flaws.
To be fair on vudoo’s barrel work a buddy just got in two 24” MTU’s and they shoot just as well as my DI precision build.
They have been doing a lot of pistol stuff but I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a rifle from them again. So far I have 1 factory Vudoo 18” that shoots great. Have close friends that have at least 6 others and they all shoot well.
Honestly I thought getting a DI build was going to be just amazingly more accurate. Well it’s not lol but it balances better and is easier to shoot comps with then my skinnier profile Vudoo.
After reading this I guess it sounds like my rifle isn’t accurate. That is not the case it shoots very well but I can’t say it’s any more accurate then the factory Vudoos that I have compared it too. They all shoot well for the most part.
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Had mine done by Vudoo fairly recent.
It has some machine marks at the muzzle end and it shoots ok within 100 but at 200 I can't get anything to group well. Rimfire is weird in that respect.
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I haven't. Honestly I'm not interested in starting that shit show. I've had the barrel for a fair bit of time and never noticed it as my bore guide prevented my bore scope from going that deep before. Also didn't think anybody used crown tools anymore but it looks like that's what happened on mine and it caught a chip on the way out.
I know it's going to turn into a "how's it shoot? have you tried different lots? You probably haven't found a great lot yet." or "That's the standard for 22's, we can't guarantee anything past 100." Even if it doesn't, they're going to have it for a couple months. For what I use it for, it's fine until I can have DI put a new barrel on. Kinda want to try some different specs anyway.
Many interesting points raised. Personal experience says positive compensation exists to a greater or lesser extent and is dependent on the whole of the system. A good tune will allow 2 rounds, 40 fps apart on MV to go in the same hole at 50. That tune will not be quite the best at 100, but close, within a couple tuner clicks. A good tune at 100 holds up at longer distances, where further tuning gets lost in the condition noise. Muzzle velocity does vary with hold vs free recoil. It is not a huge leap to imagine barrel time changes, affecting tune. If free recoil shoots loose and a hard hold immediately shoots dots, or vice versa, you have “found something”, as David explains fluently.
