Rifle Scopes Premier - holy shit

[orkan]

I opened the box on my premier 5-25 today. (thanks scott @ liberty optics)

After playing with it for 30 minutes or so... I didn't really have any drool left. It was all over the scope and my floor.

Holy shit was all I was left to say. It isn't often I get blown away by a product... but these guys did their friggin homework. There will be more premiers in my future.

 

[Helidriver]

Re: Premier - holy shit

I want one but don't have the cash....

 

[GunGuru727]

Re: Premier - holy shit

I want one so horribly bad AHHHHHHHH!

 

[fastford]

Re: Premier - holy shit

have to agree, they rock!

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Orkan,
How many scope have tried in the last month?

This will likely be your last. I have a PR 3-15 Gen II mildot and love it.

 

[Firefighter488]

Re: Premier - holy shit

orkan, if you got it with the XR reticle, then you have the same reticle I have. I really enjoy mine. Now, mount that thing and go put some down range. Congrats on the new glass.

 

[Guest]

Re: Premier - holy shit

lol

 

[JALVI]

Re: Premier - holy shit

You are gonna luv that scope... You will be able to see .30 cal holes @ 500 yds if the light is right. Tool less zero is kinda cool too.

Good glass, well thought out, and FFP FTMFW baby!!!

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Orkan,
How many scope have tried in the last month?

This will likely be your last. I have a PR 3-15 Gen II mildot and love it. </div></div>

Well, I figure I'll never know what scopes I like by reading stuff about them. Only way to tell, is to own them. This was a lot more expensive than the razor... and it shows. The razor is a fine scope, but its just not in the same category as the premier. The prices on both scopes seem to fit them, although I think the vortex would sell a hell of a lot better if it were at the $1500 mark.

Its just so shitty. I mean I literally sighed a second ago... thinking "son of a bitch, how am I going to afford some more of these Premier's?" Lots of my other optics are going up for sale very soon.

I've had it mounted for a while now. I can't keep my hands off it. The turrets have me mesmerized. You literally don't even have to look at the turret to make adjustments. The clicks are more definite than any scope I've had my hands on. The 1/10th mil marks "click", where as the 1 mil marks "clunk." The auditory and tactile feedback is so good, that you literally do not have to even glance at the turret. I could do it in pitch blackness. Absolutely incredible.

I had heard through the grape vine that in extreme cold, the turrets mush out big time. I put that statement to rest. It was about 5 degrees here today... and I left the scope in my truck all day. It was good and froze when I pulled it out of the box when I got home. All scope functions still worked properly, and the turrets still remained crisp and positive. More-so than any other scope I've had at that temperature.

The reticle illumination is crisp and uniform, and is quite adjustable.

The power ring is "backwards" compared to most scopes. On most of my other optics, the lower setting is on the right. On the premier, the low setting is on the left. So spinning it CCW gets you more power, CW gets you less. I'll have to re-train the brain a bit on that one.

I had plans to buy a S&B next... but I have to say, I don't see myself doing it. Another premier will probably take its place.

 

[Guest]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Im curious as to what other scopes youve owned to compare these to. Im also curious as to what real testing youve done. (Other than the, as LL says, "Bay Window" test)

Most people have this reaction when they get their first decent piece of glass.

Doesnt mean its the best out there...just the best the user has seen...

 

[JerkeeJoe]

Re: Premier - holy shit

I got my 3-15 with Gen 2 mil dot yesterday and have been every very happy with it so far. We went out this morning and shot out to 1300 yards. The glass is very clear and sharp, the retice is awesome for the 3-15, and the turrets are amazing. The turrets are what made me want to try one out, and they definitely deliver. The quick zero feature is very handy, and the clicks are very positive. My only gripes are that the 1/10 mil clicks on mine are so fine that I often overshot my adjustment and had to come back to the correct mark. Another thing is that mine is not marked for paralax and that is a bit of a pain in the ass. I think I'll sharpie it up if I decide to keep it.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Premier - holy shit

wish they did have that added to the scope...

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im curious as to what other scopes youve owned to compare these to. </div></div>

I've owned leupolds, nightforce's, a vortex razor, and a dozen others that don't warrant mentioning prior to this. I've glanced through people's S&B's, and spent some time with a couple USO's but never grabbed their turrets or owned one personally.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im also curious as to what real testing youve done. (Other than the, as LL says, "Bay Window" test)</div></div>
None. I wasn't aware that I was talking as if I did.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most people have this reaction when they get their first decent piece of glass.</div></div>

Understandable. This isn't my first time on the merry go round.

Now I have a question for you. Do you own a premier?

 

[Guest]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Dont own one. Wouldnt.

I "borrowed" one for 90 days. That was enough for me.

To each their own.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Oh, so you just came to thread crap. Gotcha. Thanks for stopping by!

If you run out of TP, just PM me.

This is probably one of those scopes that you'll either love, or hate. However, since I am enamored with it currently... I'm not sure how you could hate it. I'd be interested in hearing your reasons though.

 

[Guest]

Re: Premier - holy shit

No, I was just curious about what youre comparing this to.

Bc I used one for a few months, and found it to be lacking means I am "thread crapping?"

Im just curious as to what deserves your glowing review. Build? Clarity? Durability? LL liked it? (Have you tested any of those except for the last one?)

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Relax chief... please dont shoot me. I was just having a bit of fun at your expense.

Now, are you going to tell me why you found it to be lacking, or just continue to say you didn't like it and not give reasons?

Glowing review? I went nuts about the turrets... rightfully so. Thus far, I like them a LOT. I already said I just got it today, and just mounted it a few hours ago... and you want to continue busting my balls because I have not spent a 200rnd day at the range with it? So far I like it due to the turrets. The glass, yeah its good... whatever... I dont talk about glass much. The reticle seems nice. The illumination is uniform and adaptable. The whole package seems very well thought out. Did I mention I like the turrets? I have no idea if lowlight likes it or not. I could care less if he does or doesn't. I can guarantee you he thinks I'm an idiot for talking about a scope I haven't shot with yet though. Its his favorite thing... so I've heard.

Thats a glowing review? Now tell me why you don't like it.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, so you just came to thread crap. Gotcha. Thanks for stopping by!

If you run out of TP, just PM me. <span style="color: #FF0000">Don't be a douche, he was just asking</span>

This is probably one of those scopes that you'll either love, or hate. However, since I am enamored with it currently... I'm not sure how you could hate it. I'd be interested in hearing your reasons though.

<span style="color: #FF0000">The turrets cam-lock is cool, although as others stated, the adjustments are fine, and coming off the MTC whole #'s , you tend to skip a few.... I found the reticle a little too fine for me, glass is nice, but not all that it's made out to be, and I found the eye relief both touchy and changing as the power increased, sold a USO to get Premiers. 3-15 and 5-25, sold both and went back to USO.... just my thread crapping $.02</span>

</div></div>

 

[chpprguy]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Oh yeah.... congrats on getting a nice scope....

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Hmmm... I was thinking about a USO... but then I talked to rifles only and they let me know how many of them end up on the firing line with smoke rolling out of them down there.

Also, the 4 times I've been in the presence of USO scopes... 2 went down. No thanks.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, I was just curious about what youre comparing this to.

Bc I used one for a few months, and found it to be lacking means I am "thread crapping?"

Im just curious as to what deserves your glowing review. Build? Clarity? Durability? LL liked it? <span style="font-weight: bold">(Have you tested any of those except for the last one?)</span> </div></div>

That's funny right there.....

I am interested in what scopes you're "comparing" it to as well, if the power adjustment is backwards.....

Other than the purported test cycles that Premier claims, I still think the jury's out on the durability (First 3-15 I saw with my own two eyes went down during a match). The NorCal boy run an assload of Premiers now, so there will be lots of good data coming from them.

The clarity is fine and about on par with most in its range (subjective anyway), and I'm not sure what to make of the comment about .30 holes at 500 yards.......

Hopefully they have hardened the MTC's engagement surfaces-time will tell how those do.

The GenII XR is a great reticle for this power range, but I wish they had done more lead markings tha they did.

The parallax knob not having any markings is of no consequence to me. If you actually shoot it every once in a while you'll learn which way to turn it. Just keep in mind that on the Premier, that the top of the knob tells you distance, ie turn the top of the knob away for targets that are farther away and pull the top of the knob towards you for targets closer towards you. Markings never match up 100% anyway.

And yes I owned a 5-25 Premier.

I hope you got one of the ARD's that USO is making for the 5-25, if not then I hope your range doesn't face south-without an ARD the 5-25's are glare magnets.

Glad you like it. Very few people will have anything but praisse for something they just dropped that kinda change on.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm... I was thinking about a USO... but then I talked to rifles only and they let me know how many of them end up on the firing line with smoke rolling out of them down there.

</div></div>
"Smoke rolling out of them", really???
Now I know you are full of shit.

USO was Frank's brand of choice for many years. Not to mention USO is a huge supporter of matches at RO, so that quote may want to be adjusted before you cause any grief amongst folks.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Well, I dont care what I pay for something... if it sucks... it sucks. See my vortex review and you'll see very clearly I don't play that game. Everyone has already stated the obvious stuff that it lacks like the parallax marking

I need to get one of the ARD's coming. Where's a good place to get one?

I agree, the premier has definitely not been around long enough to be claimed reliable. We'll see how it does. As you said, I hope the MTC engagement surface is very hard... because one of my main fears is that those ultra-tight clicks turning to mush.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Also, the 4 times I've been in the presence of USO scopes... 2 went down. No thanks. </div></div>

How did they go down?
This is a question , not a challenge.....

I have talked to Premier (for the MTC "clicker" upgrade) and USO (to change a reticle and general stupid questions)
both had excellent customer service, and I would feel confident that if either scope type had a problem, they would make it right quickly....

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Premier - holy shit

USO would be a good place to get the ARD, since they make them, and I think CS Tactical is a stocking retailer of them as well.

The clicks are no biggie, as long as Premier's around they can send you new clickers-its a DIY replacement if you're halfway handy.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Smoke rolling out is a metaphor in case you weren't aware. It means THEY WENT DOWN. Lisa's the one I talked to, and she said they see quite a few of them fail. If that rubs some feathers backward, then I'll delete it... but THAT IS WHAT I WAS TOLD. You have a problem with that, take it up with them. She said the owner of USO is one hell of a nice guy, and will always take care of you... but "he knows how we feel about his products."

Secondly... TWO USO SCOPES died the only FOUR times I've been in their presence. Am I suppose to NOT take that experience into account when buying something? I suppose if you were buying trucks, and seen 2 out of 4 chevy's blow up... you'd buy one anyway?

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

To the question of how the USO's went down:

1) The elevation turret functioned, but did not effect the reticle at all. No amount of up/down on the elevation moved the reticle at all.

2) The elevation turret functioned, but the windage was moved as well as the elevation... without the windage knob being touched.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: Premier - holy shit

All shit breaks,
<span style="text-decoration: line-through">I am asking, how did they break?</span> ahhh, thank you much....
I own a few USO's and would like to know............

As I said congrats on the new scope

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

I wish this forum would tell you that someone else posted while you were typing a post. hehe. I answered your question above.

I'm fully aware that everything breaks. Hell, this scope could go down tomorrow. Who knows.

My confidence was definitely shaken in the USO's after seeing two of them die myself. I'm not around a lot of high dollar optics very often, and to see scopes that run upwards of $2500 kick the bucket like that was very un-nerving. I'm sure they are nice scopes.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: Premier - holy shit

BTW,
I thought the ocular flip cover sucked on the Premier, dust/dirt/etc was always getting past it to the lens......
There is a thread on here somewhere about the correct BC cover and a pot of boiling water that makes it fit nicely... I looked for it, but couldn't find it.... FYI....
and I don't think USO is the "best", I just like their reticles and the EREK knob, besides... I'm just a welder, not a sniper....

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Damn....It seems like no matter what optic you get, someone always wants to shoot it down and say how it isnt all that its made out to be. Proof positive that you cant ever make everyone happy. Its like this shit gets to the point where its almost political in a way. Its funny, but at the same time its very aggrevating.

Anyways, congrats on the new scope. I know what you mean about if its crap then its crap regardelss of how much you pay for it. I followed and posted in your Razor thread since I had bought one also and had some similar issues as you did. I looked at USO also, but just decided to go with another NF for now since I have them already and they have been fine for me. Im not at the skill level that some of you are at so Im sure my crappy NF will get me by while im learning.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

I'll have to find the butler creek thread... because I already don't like the one that comes on the premier either. They put the butler on the front... they should have just carried on to the ocular.

Well trevor, I dont think anyone was shooting me down. They were just expressing how they didn't like it. Thats fine with me. The more people that don't buy them... the easier it will be for me to get!

 

[chpprguy]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> crappy NF </div></div>

those aren't usually two terms that go together.....

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

I would have went nightforce... if they had a ffp scope over 15x. I'm glad they didn't, because it let me try a few other scopes that I might not have otherwise. I was pretty loyal to nightforce... but they didn't have a product that fit what I wanted this time around.

If this premier holds up... they probably lost the 3-15 ffp sale to premier as well.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chpprguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> crappy NF </div></div>

those aren't usually two terms that go together..... </div></div>

It was complete sarcasm sir. I love my NF's and I doubt I ever stray form them.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the question of how the USO's went down:

1) The elevation turret functioned, but did not effect the reticle at all. No amount of up/down on the elevation moved the reticle at all.

2) The elevation turret functioned, but the windage was moved as well as the elevation... without the windage knob being touched. </div></div>

Can you say how long ago these failures happened please? Has anyone recently bought (within last 6months) a USO and experienced a failure?

 

[Guest]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Your posts were better the first time...when Frank wrote them.

 

[Buckoman]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Wasn't it just a year or 2 ago that S&B was ilke the end all? Seems anything the military picks up is the latest rave. Now mind you I've looked through a Premier, I own an S&B (cause I got it stupid cheap) their all nice. I just bet if someone were to make a military contract zeiss then that would be the latest crave. I've owned Leupold, IOR, Nightforce, USO, and S&B, I'm convinced that some of those scopes are way overpriced.

Oh ya, congrats on the nice scope.

 

[idahoshooter]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Relax chief... please dont shoot me.

I went nuts about the turrets

I already said I just got it today, and just mounted it a few hours ago... and you want to continue busting my balls because I have not spent a 200rnd day at the range with it?

So far I like it due to the turrets.

The glass, yeah its good.

I can guarantee you he thinks I'm an idiot for talking about a scope I haven't shot with yet though.</div></div>

You went nuts about turrets that need correction as soon as you get em?

Yeah, I want to bust your balls bc youre hyping a scope you havent done shit with. See my sig line, you fucking shill.

Again, turrets that suck and need fixing, Fucking shill.

Havent spent a 200 yd range day? You dumb fuck. 200 yds is the MINIMUM. You havent even done that.

STFU you stupid fucking twat. You can kiss LL ass all you want, but if you cant even get your shit squared away for a fucking scope test, then SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LEARN YOUR ROLE. </div></div>

How do you really feel?

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Shaggy,
Did that post make you feel like a real man?? I mean you bashed another member over the Internet in cyberspace....that tells me right away that your are hardcore without a doubt. I guess you think you can intimidate people with your high post count and your harsh, yet empty minded vocabulary. In reality your just another meaningless worm sitting behind a key board and judging by your post count you must spend alot of time behind said keyboard. Your probably just a pack a smokes and a pair of chrome shades away from being the "Dale Gribble" of your community. So, with that being said, why don't you learn your role as the insignificant shit hook that you've shown yourself to be and shut the fuck up!

If you think about it all you had to do was keep your fucking comments about the scope to yourself and none of this dumb shit would have went on, it's not like anybody gave a fuck about what you had to say anyway. You were merely posting to stroke your own ego and throw your "implied" weight around.

 

[Bluejazz]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Seems alittle harsh,Shaggy.

 

[snpr9696]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shaggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Relax chief... please dont shoot me.

I went nuts about the turrets

I already said I just got it today, and just mounted it a few hours ago... and you want to continue busting my balls because I have not spent a 200rnd day at the range with it?

So far I like it due to the turrets.

The glass, yeah its good.

I can guarantee you he thinks I'm an idiot for talking about a scope I haven't shot with yet though.</div></div>

You went nuts about turrets that need correction as soon as you get em?

Yeah, I want to bust your balls bc youre hyping a scope you havent done shit with. See my sig line, you fucking shill.

Again, turrets that suck and need fixing, Fucking shill.

Havent spent a 200 yd range day? You dumb fuck. 200 yds is the MINIMUM. You havent even done that.

STFU you stupid fucking twat. You can kiss LL ass all you want, but if you cant even get your shit squared away for a fucking scope test, then SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LEARN YOUR ROLE. </div></div>

Wow...That's some funny stuff right there!!!! So what do you thing about Countersniper Scopes. They look cool!!! JK

 

[RussW1911]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shaggy,
Did that post make you feel like a real man?? I mean you bashed another member over the Internet in cyberspace....that tells me right away that your are hardcore without a doubt. I guess you think you can intimidate people with your high post count and your harsh, yet empty minded vocabulary. In reality your just another meaningless worm sitting behind a key board and judging by your post count you must spend alot of time behind said keyboard. Your probably just a pack a smokes and a pair of chrome shades away from being the "Dale Gribble" of your community. So, with that being said, why don't you learn your role as the insignificant shit hook that you've shown yourself to be and shut the fuck up!

If you think about it all you had to do was keep your fucking comments about the scope to yourself and none of this dumb shit would have went on, it's not like anybody gave a fuck about what you had to say anyway. You were merely posting to stroke your own ego and throw your "implied" weight around. </div></div>

Haha your a fool and you have no clue who your talking to.

Then you start doing exactly what your telling him not to.

I will give you this, the Dale Gribble comment was funny, but not fitting for the person your referring to.

 

[JRose]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Glad you like your scope!

I almost bought one when they first came out, but decided to wait until they've hung around a bit.

As for failure, failure is just a unavoidable occurrence in mechanical devices... There's been a few PR's that's bit the dust too, and if you look at the numbers, b/c of their relatively low numbers of scopes out there, I bet their failure percentages are a lot higher than most... Should that factor into your buying? Sure. What's more important though, is how the company takes care of the problems as they arise, which PR seems to be doing.

I know a guy that wouldn't use a NF as a hammer, and he's a well respected shooter. Just had too many problems with his. My experience is different, as is many others. He will never own another NF product, which I think is the wrong stance to take based on such a small sample, but it's his money, his prerogative.

USO has went through their share of problems, but I think John has them well sorted out now, and is on track to have a stellar year. The new SN3 I got yesterday is very nice, and I see a lot of changes in it from my SN3 I bought just a year and a half ago.

Thing is, once there's a problem, some people condemn the brand for life. No company is infallible though. I hope you enjoy the shit out of your PR and it's a good scope for you, and if something goes wrong with it, I hope they square you away.

 

[native]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Kind of thought you'd like the scope Orkan.
Some of you come across as being a bit long in tooth in this thread.
Orkan may rub some or even many the wrong way at times, but I wont begrudge anyone enjoying a nice piece of glass.
Enjoy orkan

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you say how long ago these failures happened please? Has anyone recently bought (within last 6months) a USO and experienced a failure? </div></div>

One was july of 09. The other, fall of 08. Doesn't mean I'll never buy a USO. It just means I didn't buy one this time.

After shooting the premier a bit this morning... I probably won't buy a USO next time either... lol

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
After shooting the premier a bit this morning... </div></div>

Cool, maybe more objective observations on the optic than "holy shit" will be forthcoming.

 

[jonoliew]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Lol i was considering this scope.. but i've got no idea what to take away from this thread ahahahaha. So what exactly did you guys like and dislike in comparison to other scopes of that price/quality?

 

[tacticalrifleman]

Re: Premier - holy shit

I had a Premier 5x25 with the GENII reticle and loved it. I like the thin reticle as it was easier for me to quarter small targets at distance. I liked the knobs, with the MTC, and the optics. I really had settled on keeping it and getting a 3-15 to go on my new rifle. Then a fellow wanted to trade his S&B for my Premier. I had never had one so figured I would try one out for a bit. Between the two they both have things I like about them, but right now my favorite is the S&B. I would certainly like to have another Premier though. I really had no negative experience with the Premier, or the USO I had before it, I just happen to like the S&B a little bit better. I just wish I could get the Premier GEN II XR reticle put in it! I will probably settle for the P4F.

Congrats on the Premier, I really think you will be happy with it.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
After shooting the premier a bit this morning... </div></div>

Cool, maybe more objective observations on the optic than "holy shit" will be forthcoming. </div></div>

It still has me saying "holy shit" after the first session.
That's all you get.