Rifle Scopes Premier - holy shit

[EventHorizon]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you say how long ago these failures happened please? Has anyone recently bought (within last 6months) a USO and experienced a failure? </div></div>

One was july of 09. The other, fall of 08. Doesn't mean I'll never buy a USO. It just means I didn't buy one this time.

After shooting the premier a bit this morning... I probably won't buy a USO next time either... lol

</div></div>

Thanks for that. Were they brand new or bought some time before failure?

 

[dcjs]

Re: Premier - holy shit

"Holy shit" or some similar statement has been quite a common reaction to people's first experience with the scope, so this judgement, though seeming unscientific at first, does carry statistical significance indeed.

Glad you like it!

 

[ZOMBIE101]

Re: Premier - holy shit

i have a new premier 5-25 sitting in my closet...(im so broke i cant afford to buy rings to mount it)....this is sad!!!...other than that...everything looks good!

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZOMBIE101</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have a new premier 5-25 sitting in my closet...(im so broke i cant afford to buy rings to mount it)....this is sad!!!...other than that...everything looks good! </div></div>

If I still had my rings I'd mail them to you to borrow, that's gotta suck! Oh well, maybe someone else has a pair they could lend you.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you say how long ago these failures happened please? Has anyone recently bought (within last 6months) a USO and experienced a failure? </div></div>

One was july of 09. The other, fall of 08. Doesn't mean I'll never buy a USO. It just means I didn't buy one this time.

After shooting the premier a bit this morning... I probably won't buy a USO next time either... lol

</div></div>

Thanks for that. Were they brand new or bought some time before failure? </div></div>

Can happen to any manufacturer, the first 3-15 PR I saw had tracking issues and I know a shooter that had tracking issues with his 5-25 when he received it. The latter was fixed quickly, and the former I have no follow up on.
Get out enough and you will see samples of all the top tier scopes go down.

At this level of scopes, the majority of differences are subjective. I really liked the Premier 5-25 I had once I got an ARD for it (would washout with glare easily without it), and I found it very unforgiving on eye placement at 17X and up.

I guess "holy shit" will have to do

 

[Aqua Mark]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZOMBIE101</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have a new premier 5-25 sitting in my closet...(im so broke i cant afford to buy rings to mount it)....this is sad!!!...other than that...everything looks good! </div></div>

I only have spare 30mm, if I had some 34mm I would let you use them....

PS With all the Premiers in use and test reporting going on, in a year the reliability issue should be settled one way or another. Its great to have a choice of so many fine optics, and nice to hear people critiquing them, as we all benefit.

 

[ALMAORFE]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZOMBIE101</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have a new premier 5-25 sitting in my closet...(im so broke i cant afford to buy rings to mount it)....this is sad!!!...other than that...everything looks good! </div></div>

I've got a spare set of 34mm Seekins lows, PM me if you want to borrow them.

 

[propulsionclimbing]

Re: Premier - holy shit

We are lucky to have so many scope manufacturers that make great products. No, they aren't perfect, but it seems they are listening to what we want and coming out with some really good stuff.

A few years ago, I sold all of my NF and bought USO. I just liked the features of the USO better and the fact that I could customize the scope to just what I wanted. Over five years of harsh use, I had one issue with a USO, and they took care of it. As everyone knows, you won't find better customer service in the industry.

I recently acquired a PH 5-25 for use on my DTA SRS. So far, I am very impressed. The glass is better in my eyes than the the USO scopes I have. It's damn fine glass! I personally like the turret adjustments as well. I have always been an MOA/MOA guy before this scope, so the mil thing takes some getting used to, but it's just another way of measuring so no big deal. I have had no issues with tracking, but haven't run it through the ringer yet.

Time will tell how good these scopes are, but a superficial use of the scope has left me very impressed. These optics just keep getting better and we are the winners in that equation!

 

[ZOMBIE101]

Re: Premier - holy shit

thanx for the offers guys...ill pass...savin up for a Near mount & should have one soon.

...Thanx Again Guys!!!!

 

[CS95]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Here on the hide he is someone behind a computer,like the rest of us, that happens to goe by the name Shaggy and thats it,only difference is that he,like you, did not contribute anything to this forum on these particular posts.

Not to mention the whole hating on PH scopes is getting a little old,not saying anyone did or didnt in these particular posts,but it is definetly getting old. They are great scopes,just like S&B,NF,USO,VORTEX,etc...are great scopes,and just like all of those companies they are bound to have some issues as they are built by humans. I have a couple premiers and as some of you say I have "run them pretty hard" as I shoot damn near everyday and for the past 4months has been mostly with PH topped rifles.I know its not a huge time span,but I would venture to guess that in that 4 months I have shot more than a good portion of people will in 1 or 2 years. I have used them in -20 degree weather with no issues what so ever,granted I dont stay out all that long when it is that cold. I am in the process of putting a Vortex Razor through the same kind of use and thus far am fairly impressed. Some of you might not think Vortex belongs on the previous mentioned list ,but I would beg to differ as I have had the oppurtunity to see first hand some of the things they are working on and I will bet my bottom dollar that along with that stuff,their warranty and CS they will be at the very top.

 

[RussW1911]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sp95</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911

You are a fool and have no idea who you are talking to.

</div></div>[/quote</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Here on the hide he is someone behind a computer,like the rest of us, that happens to goe by the name Shaggy and thats it,only difference is that he,like you, did not contribute anything to this forum on these particular posts.

Not to mention the whole hating on PH scopes is getting a little old,not saying anyone did or didnt in these particular posts,but it is definetly getting old. They are great scopes,just like S&B,NF,USO,VORTEX,etc...are great scopes,and just like all of those companies they are bound to have some issues as they are built by humans. I have a couple premiers and as some of you say I have "run them pretty hard" as I shoot damn near everyday and for the past 4months has been mostly with PH topped rifles.I know its not a huge time span,but I would venture to guess that in that 4 months I have shot more than a good portion of people will in 1 or 2 years. I have used them in -20 degree weather with no issues what so ever,granted I dont stay out all that long when it is that cold. I am in the process of putting a Vortex Razor through the same kind of use and thus far am fairly impressed. Some of you might not think Vortex belongs on the previous mentioned list ,but I would beg to differ as I have had the oppurtunity to see first hand some of the things they are working on and I will bet my bottom dollar that along with that stuff,their warranty and CS they will be at the very top.

</div></div>

Good for you, don't lump me in with your good portion of people. I can guarantee you I don't fall in your parameters.

That said, I haven't had to buy one of these scopes as I learned enough watching them shit the bed in 8 degrees. That guy went through 3 I think it was... needless to say, he doesn't own one anymore. I'll stick with my Night Force's for now. Maybe throw a S&B or a Hendsolt in the mix here soon.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I learned enough watching them shit the bed in 8 degrees. That guy went through 3 I think it was...</div></div>

How long ago was that? Was it with the 3-15 or the 5-25?

 

[sgj2025]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Wow this thread went from good to bad,back to good and then went south again. Congrats on the scope, they are really nice! From now on you wont be happy with anything of less optical quality. Welcome to the world of highend scopes, they cost alot because they are worth it.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Premier - holy shit


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You are a fool and have no idea who you are talking to.
</div></div>


It wouldn't matter if Shaggys the Pope or you're the President. Everyone keeping their statements to what they would say if face to face would solve this problem.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Olin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone keeping their statements to what they would say if face to face would solve this problem. </div></div>

... or maybe think this one thing before you post:

Is my post going to contribute in any way at all?

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Don't care to answer the questions russ?

 

[RussW1911]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Olin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You are a fool and have no idea who you are talking to.
</div></div>


It wouldn't matter if Shaggys the Pope or you're the President. Everyone keeping their statements to what they would say if face to face would solve this problem. </div></div>

haha, I don't think either of us have ever had a problem with that. After meeting several last month, I found out which people around will and WILL NOT say what they are thinking when in person.

 

[RussW1911]

Re: Premier - holy shit

You really wanna go there Ork?

I never said anything to you on here.

When you "contribute" to a thread it generally consists of following someone around like a yappy little dog regurgitating whatever it is that they said.

You remind me of that cartoon from years ago with the little puppy bouncing around.... what we doin' today Spike? huh huh what we doin'

 

[RussW1911]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Ork, I layed there in 8 degrees and watch the first one shit the bed from the get go. Windage just up and quit working.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

FOR FUCKS SAKE I'M getting tired of this.

Russ... if you'd READ THE GOD DAMN THREAD, I specifically asked you two questions. THAT was the questions I was referring to. NOT whether or not you have contributed. If everyone wouldn't be looking to fuckn argue all the time... we might be able to actually discuss something OBJECTIVELY. I'm all ears if someone wants to share real experiences.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I learned enough watching them shit the bed in 8 degrees. That guy went through 3 I think it was...</div></div>

How long ago was that? Was it with the 3-15 or the 5-25? </div></div>

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Ok... thank YOU. now can we discuss this like fuckn GROWN UP types please?

When was this? ... and which models was it where 3 of them went down. Did the windage knob move and not the reticle? Was the reticle still holding, so you could use hold offs for windage?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Orkan take this for what its worth. My dealings with Premier and their scopes have been at best shit. The failures that i have seen are on 3 different scopes. My 5-25 would change POI as i increased the magnification through the mag range starting from 5x all the way up to 25x....the total amount of shift at 100yds was .4 mils, might not sound like much but that equates to a miss at distance. Also with mine, as i would have the parralax set at where it stayed most of the time, if i would dial up to my 1K dope the parralax would get thrown out. I would equate it to looking through a bottle of muddy water. Also when i got my 5-25 i had about 14 days of use before the orginal "clickers" went to shit and it felt like a smooth knob with no clicks. For the money they want for these scopes and the rocky road they have had thus far i dont see them fairing well when they hop to SB pricing. Also having to replace clickers in a 2300 dollar scope in my mind is unacceptable

In the last match that i shot, i watched a 3-15 zero walk to .6-.7 mils low after running the knobs to the dopes for the different stages of fire. Thats totally unacceptable.

Saw another 3-15 that wouldnt track worth a shit, you put in .5 mils and you may have gotten .2 or as much as .9....again totally unacceptable.

And now for the CS, after Jerry left, it went to shit. I wont even begin to go into what my experience was with that, those that know about that know and its not going out in the open, im not going to bash a company on here and then have the fan boys come out of the woodwork and tell me how wrong i am. Hope this helps, and im glad you like your new scope. I truly hope that you dont have the same problems that i had with them.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Thanks for that post deadly. This kind of echo's my fears. Thus far, the scope is very pleasing. If it can just STAY that way...

I very much hope that I don't have to experience any of the same woes that you have had or seen. If I do, you can be sure I'll be on here screaming bloody murder.

When time allows, I plan to run a box test, and check parallax as well as zero at all power settings. Until I do that, I'm never confident in ANY scope I own.

 

[badbot]

Re: Premier - holy shit

I know it sucks to spend loads of money on a scope and have it not work. having it fixed and work great is nice but the only time I can remember everyone not bitching about that was that hubble scope. not covered under warrenty IIRC. well whats a few mil here and there.

Glad you love your scope and I hope people will stop losing their minds while typing.

I will gladly accept any scopes anyone in here hates. any glass I have at this time would ONLY be used as a hammer by most as far as I can gather from this thread.

I will let the regularly scheduled soap opera resume with my post as new ammo.

have a nice day

 

[smokshwn]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Olin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You are a fool and have no idea who you are talking to.
</div></div>


It wouldn't matter if Shaggys the Pope or you're the President. Everyone keeping their statements to what they would say if face to face would solve this problem. </div></div>

I don't have a dog in the fight either way.

My guess is that the statements made would be easily made face to face...so now what's the next brilliant solution?

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Premier - holy shit

I doubt that. A lot of what people feel free to say on here would result in their inability to complete their sentence if said face to face.

 

[RussW1911]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Olin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt that. A lot of what people feel free to say on here would result in their inability to complete their sentence if said face to face. </div></div>

We know each other? Your the one running your suck now. Of course, feel free to say what you want on here.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Russ, did I miss something, or did you tell me when those 3 premier's failed, and what models they were?

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Premier - holy shit

I wasn't referring to you but was as to Shaggys post and his shout box comment regarding my mother....

 

[RussW1911]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Ork, I didn't say. All were 25x though.

 

[propulsionclimbing]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Russ,

Being a new owner of a PH 5-25, I would be very curious as to what the problems were if you wouldn't mind pointing them out. Hopefully mine doesn't have the same problems, but it would be nice to know what the problems are beforehand to try to look for them. From what you have said so far, it seems that the problems might be fairly obvious! Were these Later's scopes?

It's great that we have a site to conduct these discussions. I for one appreciate everyone contributing and hearing different opinions. Sometimes things even get entertaining!

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Thanks russ... can you tell us WHEN this happened now please?

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Yes, there have been a few problems with the Heritage scopes, but relatively few scopes have had them. POA shifting and indistinct clicks are two, and I think these have all been addressed by Premier. I think it's impressive that the USMC recently put the 3-15x through environmental acceptance tests and it passed. Personally, I'm ready for my first Premier when my tax refund comes in a couple months! Guess I'm now a "fan boy."

 

[RussW1911]

Re: Premier - holy shit

windage quit working on that day.

There was a guy at Lee Kay range trying to zero his rifle at 300. Heritage scope wouldn't stay put. I watched him mess with it until he gave up and put his backup on, no, not a ACOG, but a standard scope. It seemed to work, but the "L" usually gives up the ghost as well.

Anyhow, people have had a fair amount of trouble with the scope, I won't invest the money in a PR after what I have seen and heard....Deadly put another twist on it with the comment on customer service... I'll pass thank you.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Jack if the fanboy jab was thrown my way, dont bother. I was referring to the people who defend them to the death. Its a tool to me, i have absolutely no emotional investment into anything that is a tool: that includes scopes, actions, barrels, stocks, triggers, it either works or it doesnt. And the 3-15 contract was a bit misleading albeit a different topic.

propulsion- i would imagine that at -8 or whatever temp Russ said, i would venture to say that the "clicks" went shit and more or less froze up, they didnt track as they should.

 

[RussW1911]

Re: Premier - holy shit

negative. windage quit all together. never did move, evan after it warmed up

DRT.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Premier - holy shit

thats not the only issue i have heard about that happening in the cold Russ.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jack if the fanboy jab was thrown my way, dont bother.</div></div>
No jab, just saying I'm now a real fan of these scopes.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Premier - holy shit

alright buddy, just making sure, because the fanboy comment was directed towards all those that will refuse to see the flaws and shortcomings and fight it till the death. Hatchet buried

 

[brand692]

Re: Premier - holy shit

This thread sucks. I am now dumber for reading it.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

My main question is, are those flaws and shortcomings still there? ... or have they since been addressed?

When is the last time someone had one fail? Recently, or are these all stories of some of the first few to get these scopes that got the early adopter blues?

 

[fastford]

Re: Premier - holy shit

dont worry about it! All brands have issues, just get out there and shoot!

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Premier - holy shit

the 3-15 i was referring to in my post Orkan, was on Jan 23rd 2010. Only reason i put the date is that was the easiest for me to remember since it was at the last match i shot. I meant that in no way shape or form to be a smart ass comment, and my Premier had all that happen about 3 months ago.


wow thanks for adding such informative information ass clown
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread sucks. I am now dumber for reading it. </div></div>

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Premier - holy shit

There have been 800-900 scopes produced so far, it might be better to think in terms of serial number rather than purchase date.

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

Agreed one eyed jack. Although it will probably be pretty hard for folks to remember serials for scopes they don't have anymore. Thats why I was shooting for date.

I fully intend to keep and use my scope thoroughly. If there have been 900 sold... then obviously not ALL scopes are having the problems.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Premier - holy shit

000476 was mine and im sure that the 3-15 that recently failed i can get you the SN#

 

[orkan]

Re: Premier - holy shit

What did premier say about your failures deadly? Did they give an explanation and replace them?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Premier - holy shit

yeah the scope was taken care of and fixed before i sold it.

 

[brand692]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow thanks for adding such informative information ass clown
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread sucks. I am now dumber for reading it. </div></div> </div></div>

Deadly, I read this thread hoping to bring something away from it. I liked Orkan's last thread about the Razor HD. I took something away from that.

This one is a worthless banter. Ass clown? I don't give two squirts of rat piss. The thread still blows! I expected more. I've never owned a PH and now, with the price increase, I probably won't. I just don't have a dog in the fight, so nothing beneficial to add. But to consider this tread beneficial? Please. The thread reads like a soap.

There isn't anything new here. Someone spend a huge chunk of change on a mechanical man made device. Mechanical man made shit breaks. S&B, Premier, USO, Stiller, whatever. S&B put wrong elevation caps on some of their 3k dollar scopes. Vortex has mismarked turrets and screws without lock tite. Stiller handles break break off. Premier had shitty clickers. Leupolds have canted reticles. Its a never ending story.

With the knowledge base of players involved in the thread, it could have been SOOO much better. Have you gained anything from it? What I'm saying is I haven't.

 

[smokshwn]

Re: Premier - holy shit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Olin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt that. A lot of what people feel free to say on here would result in their inability to complete their sentence if said face to face. </div></div>

Again, since you missed my point, knowing the poster allows me to ensure you that what was posted would be very easily stated in person.

You can doubt all you want, but you will still be wrong.

In this particular situation the OP was asked whether or not there was objective info backing his assessment of the optic in question or was he just happy he had purchased a new toy. Regardless of whether or not it coddled the OP's feelings, all that was needed was an honest answer that the OP had ZERO first hand experience using the optic.