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Price gouging
- Thread starter Doc68
- Start date
Did you slide into the local Goldmart and buy up all of the gold on the shelves, creating a supply deficiency that there was not before, inciting a panic in the casual buyers that only buy a bit of gold at a time dependent upon their immediate need, and ride that panic induced artificial bubble (that you created) to a windfall when you sold? If so, yes you are a price gouger...
Unfortunately I could only afford 3 ounces, I'm still a poor
So you mean did he do exactly what the banks and big boys do all the time to maximize their profits at the expense of the little guys?
This is kind of like exactly what goes on with the precious metals market and for that matter the stock market a lot of the time.
Watch the price of Gold and Silver for the past 25 years and you'll get an idea of how the roller coaster works.
Gold would be worth whatever somebody is willing to give you or trade you for it.
The purchasing power of gold varies wildly depending on conditions and what it is you want to use the gold to trade for and with whom.
Meh. No need to pay through the nose. I have enough at this point for any immediate need.
To paraphrase CSM Basil Plumley:
If the time comes where I need more, there'll be plenty of it laying on the ground.
To paraphrase CSM Basil Plumley:
If the time comes where I need more, there'll be plenty of it laying on the ground.
I swear everyone likes to label themselves a victum.
If your contorted logic victimhood status explanation is functional then please explain how I was able to buy 130,000 rounds from 2015-2017 multiple times placing large online orders ranging from 10,000-25,000 rounds at once and on occasion buying a vendor completely out of some types of ammo and it did not (in your own words)
"create a supply deficiency that there was not before, inciting a panic in the casual buyers".
Because according to your explanation doing so creates a
"panic induced artificial bubble"
but that didn't happen so if I didn't cause a panic buying a large amount of ammo then your statement doesn't make sense and thus something other than those buying ammo who you claim to be a victim of must be responsible for the shortage.
Do you agree that anyone who's caught out by this shortage has only themselves to blame?
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Only poors complain about price gouging.
People of means pay the high price and use it as a learning moment to prepare better in the future.
I remember paying $300 for an 8lb keg of Bullseye right after Sandy Hook. People called me crazy. Funny thing is, they called me crazy while I was at the range, while they were sitting at home bitching about prices, and how evil people making money were the scum of the earth. Whatever, nerd. Sucks to suck.
Even at $300 for 8 lbs, that was still only $0.02 cents worth of powder for each round using a 4.5 gr load in 45 ACP. 12,444 rds from an 8 lb keg.
People of means pay the high price and use it as a learning moment to prepare better in the future.
I remember paying $300 for an 8lb keg of Bullseye right after Sandy Hook. People called me crazy. Funny thing is, they called me crazy while I was at the range, while they were sitting at home bitching about prices, and how evil people making money were the scum of the earth. Whatever, nerd. Sucks to suck.
Even at $300 for 8 lbs, that was still only $0.02 cents worth of powder for each round using a 4.5 gr load in 45 ACP. 12,444 rds from an 8 lb keg.
Triggered much? Relax Sally. It’s the internet. Are you one of those gun show resellers? Maybe my post hit too close to the mark... Yes, if you don’t have what you need, you had plenty of warning. I’ve walked into plenty of stores and seen the empty shelves. Lack of “white box 9mm” and xm855 really doesn’t affect my shooting, but that was the que to start cranking through a pile of reloading supplies. I’m sitting on quite a bit more ammo now than I was before March, and haven’t bought more than about 1/2 a case of ammunition.
As I wrote in my earlier post, if you’re sitting on a hoard of ammo and think that now is a good time to unload it, go for it. If you are a retailer and are raising prices and/or limiting purchases in order to keep stock on the shelves, great. But if you are flipping ammunition (buying at Academy/Walmart/etc to sell at the gun show down the street) to make a quick buck, you‘re a jack off. I actually didn’t write that last part, but I was thinking it...
Its funny tbh because Id bet a high percentage of members here are sitting in a good place ammo wise.
I also stick by the statement that manufacturers arent the one raising prices to what we are witnessing, else big box would be doing the same and they aint.
As for the poors, thats a more complex issue IMO but many would just say "bad choices" as if it were always just that simple...outliers non-withstanding...
Bottom line, yes people can charge what they want and markets will respond accordingly. Thats their choice.
I am also prepared to make my choice and not support those same places, which is the flip side of how this all works. True colors shown IMO.
You can still buy at decent prices but have to be quick before the real gougers buy up and sell online. People are using bots and scripts to automate...
I am still of the opinion something fishy is going on here, but IDK...
I also stick by the statement that manufacturers arent the one raising prices to what we are witnessing, else big box would be doing the same and they aint.
As for the poors, thats a more complex issue IMO but many would just say "bad choices" as if it were always just that simple...outliers non-withstanding...
Bottom line, yes people can charge what they want and markets will respond accordingly. Thats their choice.
I am also prepared to make my choice and not support those same places, which is the flip side of how this all works. True colors shown IMO.
You can still buy at decent prices but have to be quick before the real gougers buy up and sell online. People are using bots and scripts to automate...
I am still of the opinion something fishy is going on here, but IDK...
In two pages I've learned that the definition of price gouging is:
If you have something for sale and I want it and it costs too much, you are price gouging.
BugIn
If you have something for sale and I want it and it costs too much, you are price gouging.
BugIn
Well you were explaining earlier that people buying large amounts of ammo as I had caused the shortage and now you're adding that it's multiple people do so that caused it. But what would cause multiple people to do so could it be national riots, a virus, a coming election, and the fact that a shortage always forces people to evacuate their own need/supply of an item could it be that these things are to blame?
And no I'm not selling ammo nor did I buy mine to sell.
Not necessarily big boxes have more leverage with manufacturers to negotiate better prices.
cap·i·tal·ism
/ˈkapədlˌizəm/
Learn to pronounce
noun
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
Cliff notes definition: Greed
Maybe the government should regulate the cost of... everything. In the process of buying another house. It's a sellers market, but I feel 38K more than two years ago is gouging. also, I think 12K closing cost is unfair.
/ˈkapədlˌizəm/
Learn to pronounce
noun
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
Cliff notes definition: Greed
Maybe the government should regulate the cost of... everything. In the process of buying another house. It's a sellers market, but I feel 38K more than two years ago is gouging. also, I think 12K closing cost is unfair.
Watching others panic their asses off to the point of throwing tantrums and even screaming for Socialism when you've spent years and alot of hard work preparing for this-----Priceless
There is going to be a lot more folks all upset about "gouging" if Biden manages to fraud the elections sufficiently and some of us start offering up locally some package deals of our spare ARs, standard capacity magazines and ammunition at "prices the market will bear" on consignment at the local gun stores...
I'm not going to feel bad, less than a year ago you could pickup used ARs for $400 and brand new ones for $500 along with all the magazines and ammunition you could want. Liberals that hated guns back then and wanted them banned can pay through the nose when they understand they are about to get their wish... while watching the mobs that they unleashed to "fight trump" coming to tear their rich, liberal neighbourhoods apart...
Just an update. Local stores are still getting shipments of 9mm, 556, etc. a couple pallets a week.
9mil is creeping up to .60C per round, 556 is about $13/20 rnds.
on the gouging side, we’ve heard of Wolf 7.62x39 going for as much $40/box
limits are being put in purchases— 600 rnds of 9mm and 1000 of 556
9mil is creeping up to .60C per round, 556 is about $13/20 rnds.
on the gouging side, we’ve heard of Wolf 7.62x39 going for as much $40/box
limits are being put in purchases— 600 rnds of 9mm and 1000 of 556
There’s nothing illegal about flopping for a call in sports, some even call it gamesmanship, I think it’s femmy, pathetic, and honorless. Congratulations your honor as a man is worth less than a free-kick, you’re great. I bet your boyfriend thinks you’re clever.
I feel the same way about hoarders, gougers, and resellers. It’s morally wrong not illegal, there are laws against it in certain circumstances. It’s not capitalism either, capitalism will eventually sort out the imbalance. My honor is worth more to me than a profiteer’s purse.
Full disclosure: I rarely buy or sell in times like this.
I feel the same way about hoarders, gougers, and resellers. It’s morally wrong not illegal, there are laws against it in certain circumstances. It’s not capitalism either, capitalism will eventually sort out the imbalance. My honor is worth more to me than a profiteer’s purse.
Full disclosure: I rarely buy or sell in times like this.
I'd come off some 556/9mm for $1/round if we see auctions consistently hitting those those prices on GB. If that upsets some then too FK'n bad it's not my or anyone else's civic duty to tie up personal funds in items others were unwilling to invest in just to sell those items at less than market value especially in market where we're just as uncertain about selling those items as they are about going without.
If you are starving to death, I'll feed you if I can. If you need a job to support your family, I'll try to help you get one.
But if you want to buy a shiny new toy or other stuff for your hobby, then you're paying whatever going price is, just like me when I bought it. That is Christian free market capitalism and common sense.
Hoarding and selling food to people dying of starvation is immoral. Hoarding and selling "luxury" items during a shortage is business.
I’d like to complain about price gouging on Rolex stainless sports watches. They are hard to get right now, and people are charging over retail. Damned price gouging.
And I would like to say with a name like BigFatCock you shouldn’t need a Rolex a Timex should do the trick. LoL
Why would hoarding and selling food to people dying of starvation be immoral? If you aren’t your brother’s keeper, you aren’t your brother’s keeper.
Interestingly enough you might want to read the old story of the patriarch Joseph who is widely respected among the Jews, Christians and Muslims.
hoarding food (Otherwise known as carefully storing and preparing and stockpiling food) and then selling it to starving people on behalf of his boss was exactly what he did.
However my suggestion is that if people are starving, just avoid the whole accusations of hording all together, and keep the food you stored away hidden for just you and your family & your close friends / group.
Just make sure that you all agree to loose lots of weight and slim way down so that you don't out yourselves as the only fat folks in famine land.
Now if you have literally enough to feed the entire area and plenty of trusted folks under your command and wish to ensure the survival of your area / community then by all means go for it, just make sure it's clear you are the head warlord in charge and this is no communist arrangement.
Just be careful with those feelings.
Because the government WILL be shaming YOU as an evil "Hoarder" and enemy of the people when they send the local police or military to kick in your door and "appropriate" everything you have for "the public good". And your neighbours will probably be cheering.
Don't think it will happen?
Why would they put that on the law books as something they are specifically allowed to do?
It won't matter to anyone that you used your hard earned money that you paid taxes on to buy and store extra stuff when there was more production than demand, so much production the same items were being thrown away by the stores for going past the sell by date and you even paid sales taxes on those purchases with your previously taxed money...
Nope they will beat the drums of propaganda and steal all your stuff as the public cheer, and of course then they keep it all for themselves and nobody including you has anything but the guys with guns.
Just take a look at those trumpeted "raids" on "hoarders" and "Illegal sellers" of face masks and other PPE some months back. The FBI and local thuggery was all so hugely proud of having "confiscated" stuff and they would try to charge those that had it & if not, they would eventually let them sue in court for the wholesale cost in China of those items from 2018 or something stupid and never again possible.
All the stupid sheeple cheered.
Were the government types next found selling all those masks at cost to the local populace or distributing them for free?
Nope, all went to our "betters" for their own stockpile...
The Communists and for that matter Governments all through time have relied on the fact that while some folks have moral qualms about taking someone else's stuff at weapon point, those same folks usually cheer if somebody else with some kind of uniform does it for them instead.
One day we'll do like the Soviets did to those Ukranian Kulak fuck heads hoarding the gra-er nm.
The "poors" cheered as the slightly better to do were made examples of...
But then those same poors shortly got to experience mass starvation...
There is a major problem with treating the world as a zero sum game which is perhaps the biggest lie of communism.
I realize that much of the communicative properties of words are lost when they are written down, and especially so on the internet. But if you can’t comprehend that the post you are so adamantly butt-hurt by was written metaphorically, and with some amount of subtle humor, your autism is reaching weapons grade.
It's the difference between, we need to divide up this one pie in a fair manner among all the equal people.
VS.
Let's get into the kitchen and make as many pies as we want.
No it's just that I'm not looking for someone else to blame. The reason why there's a shortage is because people wait until there's a percieved crisis to prepare for one not because someone else buys too much.
“The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer —- What is to be done? Uncouple the last carriage, liquidate the rich, take away their wealth and distribute it among the poor. And they start to uncouple the carriages.
But the spoils are soon spent, and people start to notice inequality again —- again there are rich and poor. So they uncouple the next carriage, and then the next, without end, because absolute equality has still not been achieved.
Is it really surprising that whenever you get striving for equality and fraternity, the guillotine appears on the scene?
People attain absolute equality only in the graveyard, and if you want to turn your country into a gigantic graveyard, go ahead, join the socialists. ” - Vladimir Bukovsky
If the poors are so convinced that money = happiness then why do you think they don't just apply themselves and go some of their own. My belief is that the poor want to be poor.
I would say that's not exactly how it is.
Now without making a hard and fast rule, because there are many that are poor due to the fickle nature of fortune, many who are poor, for one reason or another do not want to dedicate themselves to the hard work and sacrifice that is required to improve your social/economic standing.
Much like the problem of dieting or anything else, they have a hard time giving up the now stuff so they can work for future rewards.
The fact that the poor folks are the most likely to use the local state lottery as their savings / retirement plan, shows that they actually want to get rich, if there is a quick and easy way with no hard work.
Let me elaborate anyone living in a 1st world capitalistic country who is healthy and remains poor is poor because they want to be poor. These people who do not take the necessary actions to change their circumstances freely and willingly accept them.
I disagree with that on the fact that some 10-15% of the population has an IQ that makes following instructions difficult. Jordan Peterson talks about it and it is a hell of a problem honestly especially in a society where we are far less labor based than any society ever has been. Regardless redistribution of wealth or lowering everyone to the lowest common denominator is a flat out stupid solution and so many more are intellectually capable of escaping their circumstances but do not. Many of them are killing themselves, know they are killing themselves but can not stop as the means of death are so sweet.
This also ignores that you have to be the lowest of the low in the US to not have had a better standard of living than 100 years ago.
things like 65% of households having no electricity. It took a full day to do a family's laundry. Most houses built at the time had indoor plumbing; a huge amount already built did not. As of a few years ago even 40% of homeless people had phones. Women not having stuff like pads and tampons which is taken for granted.
We live in a period of history where obesity is more of a risk than starvation. To say we have not helped even the poor of our nations is absurd. In some parts of the world slavery still exists. In some parts of the world people eat dirt to not feel hungry. There arr so many ways things could he worse but are thankfully not.
To the new guy who wants to understand how this happens and what happens next, here's my effort to explain it.
Bear with me.
Shortages are caused by shortsightedness. We've had four years to see this coming; four years of plenty and of reasonable prices.
Now the folks who haven't given a damn have suddenly decided they do. But that boat has already sailed. There's a lesson in there, somewhere.
It's a variation on the old wisecrack about how someone else's shortsightedness in no way constitutes an emergency on my part (not me, personally, just the figure of speech).
We've all been where you are. We learned. You're learning. I hope.
As for prices and availability, they will come down when nobody continues to buy at the inflated prices. Not before.
Unmoved inventory piling up in stock rooms creates one or both of two things; clearance sales, and/or fraudulent fire insurance claims. I hope it's the former because I hate to see good products go to waste.
There is no shortage of production; there's just panic buying driving supply down and demand up to unsustainable levels. If you want this to end, refuse to buy what's unobtainable, and paying ridiculous prices for it. All we have to do is stop buying and wait.
In my experience, prices never recover. They drop back a bit, but never go back to where they were before. This is all planned in advance, there's a script, and everyone gets to play their part. If you want to stop that, stop buying and wait. Again. Eventually somebody's finally going to figure out that we're wise to them, and the game will contnue with a different commodity. Simple as that. Everybody still makes their money, they just don't do it with guns anymore. No need to get any more creative than that. I's always been about the money.
This will continue to occur on a periodic basis generally linked to election cycles because politicians know this happens and keep playing more games with threats and quietly make profits on market shortages that they themselves control at will. NRA, Democrats, Republicans, the Courts, the Congress; anybody can play. It's always been about the money.
They think we're suckers, and in a lot of cases, they're right. There's a sucker born every minute.
If you've ever wondered how politicians manage to get rich on such picayune salaries, this is a big part of that. They do the same thing with trade treaties and commodity prices, too. Government contracts, etc., etc.
Politics is a game of numbers. The cost of a political seat is orders of magnitude more than the salaries earned by the winners. Now you know how and why, and the reasons why oversight committees are all mouth and blinder than bats.
In short, it happens. Period.
I never contribute to politicians. They're already getting rich off me (Us? All of us?) anyway.
I've been telling people here that democracy is a failed experiment for years. Listen to what follows very carefully, because you'll only hear me say it once (I hope).
I was wrong!
Democracy is working just fine.
Just not for us.
The second Amendment is there for a reason, but nobody teaches you why anymore. It works against their best interests to do things like that.
Slavery is alive and well in America; they just put away all those whips and renamed it to"politics".
Greg
Bear with me.
Shortages are caused by shortsightedness. We've had four years to see this coming; four years of plenty and of reasonable prices.
Now the folks who haven't given a damn have suddenly decided they do. But that boat has already sailed. There's a lesson in there, somewhere.
It's a variation on the old wisecrack about how someone else's shortsightedness in no way constitutes an emergency on my part (not me, personally, just the figure of speech).
We've all been where you are. We learned. You're learning. I hope.
As for prices and availability, they will come down when nobody continues to buy at the inflated prices. Not before.
Unmoved inventory piling up in stock rooms creates one or both of two things; clearance sales, and/or fraudulent fire insurance claims. I hope it's the former because I hate to see good products go to waste.
There is no shortage of production; there's just panic buying driving supply down and demand up to unsustainable levels. If you want this to end, refuse to buy what's unobtainable, and paying ridiculous prices for it. All we have to do is stop buying and wait.
In my experience, prices never recover. They drop back a bit, but never go back to where they were before. This is all planned in advance, there's a script, and everyone gets to play their part. If you want to stop that, stop buying and wait. Again. Eventually somebody's finally going to figure out that we're wise to them, and the game will contnue with a different commodity. Simple as that. Everybody still makes their money, they just don't do it with guns anymore. No need to get any more creative than that. I's always been about the money.
This will continue to occur on a periodic basis generally linked to election cycles because politicians know this happens and keep playing more games with threats and quietly make profits on market shortages that they themselves control at will. NRA, Democrats, Republicans, the Courts, the Congress; anybody can play. It's always been about the money.
They think we're suckers, and in a lot of cases, they're right. There's a sucker born every minute.
If you've ever wondered how politicians manage to get rich on such picayune salaries, this is a big part of that. They do the same thing with trade treaties and commodity prices, too. Government contracts, etc., etc.
Politics is a game of numbers. The cost of a political seat is orders of magnitude more than the salaries earned by the winners. Now you know how and why, and the reasons why oversight committees are all mouth and blinder than bats.
In short, it happens. Period.
I never contribute to politicians. They're already getting rich off me (Us? All of us?) anyway.
I've been telling people here that democracy is a failed experiment for years. Listen to what follows very carefully, because you'll only hear me say it once (I hope).
I was wrong!
Democracy is working just fine.
Just not for us.
The second Amendment is there for a reason, but nobody teaches you why anymore. It works against their best interests to do things like that.
Slavery is alive and well in America; they just put away all those whips and renamed it to"politics".
Greg
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Eventually, if the government doesn't intervene, the market will take care of this...Just like it has in the past...LOL
I would argue this shortage is not caused by shortsightedness (some shortages are), but by mob panic. It may be 6 vs half dozen, but to me short sightedness is when you don't buy a coat for winter, or your flour is down to 10% and you don't refill.
However, there was no way to 'predict' COVID (or the stupid BLM protests) which is a HUGE driver of our current situation. That's panic buying. People who maybe shoot 50 rounds a year buying thousands. Millions of new people going after handguns. That's not election--its COVID/BLM. Its panic buying (see also my analogy of the TP shortage--we weren't suddenly taking more dumps, nor was there a shortage of supply--people just up and decided I NEED MOAR TP!!! ALL THE TP FOR MY BUNGHOLE!)
However as to the rest:
Spot on. D or R in front of their name, they don't give two craps about me. Never have. its about power. For them. At my expense.
Feelin kinda revolty today...maybe I should go outside and away from keyboard (or take my meds).
I honestly don't know that I'd get enough velocity for 115s out of a 1:8 18" barrel. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I seriously have my doubts. The guys I researched were running 26" barrels. Just seems a bit heavy, maybe I'm wrong?
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