Prime Update Video

[HayStax]

Looks like Prime missed the initial sales deadline, a new form of financing was agreed upon verbally, and the new payment structure was honored by both parties for 6mos. Then the terms were altered for the “new” ammo order and money was applied to past due balance unbeknownst to Prime.

Prime are basically hoping that by countering with 16 counterclaims for $1mil/per that they will reach a settlement because RUAG will be afraid to appear in court in the USA.

It may be very hard to prove facts regarding the second addendum monies but I wouldn’t go before a judge if I were RUAG.

My guess is Prime is out of business even with a settlement. No way they get paid and stick around as a thorn in the foot of the real players

 

[kabarNC]

Hoping for a good outcome for Prime.

Isn't Capstone Precision Group a rival of RUAG Swiss? I heard awhile back they were trying to gain more traction in the US market. It would seem that they would be doing themselves a favor by swooping in to help if Prime comes out on top.

But that may lead us right back here for round two, who knows..

 

[Sheldon N]

My 0.02 as someone who understands deeply how all this works.

Litigation in this matter will last at least a year and a half. It will easily cost each side $250k, more realistically $500k+ in attorney fees. Even for the prevailing party there will be no windfall or being "made whole". The only people who will walk away winners will be the attorneys. There will be no "justice".

RUAG has the position of power, as both the creditor of Prime who can allege nonpayment of money owed for outstanding ammo orders made on credit (but not yet delivered), and more powerfully as the deep pocket who can bear the costs of litigation and use that leverage as a weapon.

RUAG's goals of exiting the civilian ammo business (and perhaps the underlying goal of devaluing Norma prior to sale so it can be bought by an investor group "on the cheap") are only further served by ongoing litigation, customer outrage, and boycotts.

The bitter truth for Prime is that their likely best option is a settlement which extinguishes their outstanding debts with RUAG, severs their partnership, and allows them to walk away with only partial losses. Then their remaining efforts, any capital they can raise, and their customer goodwill can be rolled into rebuilt operations with a new manufacturing partner.

 

[Lowlight]

that is part of the plan

 

[Snuby642]

What happened to developing a product, manufacturing your own products, building and maintaining industry in America?

The root of all evil, sit in you cubical and expect paid well for doing damn little.
Offload everything except cashing checks.

A long time ago we had an industrial revolution and it made America great.
We built products and jobs and were a happy society in general.

Now it's the cubical revolution, jobs gone, ability to produce lost.
Not able to compete producing anything.

Appears we have shit in our own mess kit!
Not that any snowflakes will ever know what a mess kit is.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

What happened to developing a product, manufacturing your own products, building and maintaining industry in America?

The root of all evil, sit in you cubical and expect paid well for doing damn little.
Offload everything except cashing checks.

A long time ago we had an industrial revolution and it made America great.
We built products and jobs and were a happy society in general.

Now it's the cubical revolution, jobs gone, ability to produce lost.
Not able to compete producing anything.

Appears we have shit in our own mess kit!
Not that any snowflakes will ever know what a mess kit is.

BINGO.

There have been many statements made by many people on this thread, about ACTUALLY building/making/assembling the ammunition (and it's components) here in North America. Yeah, it was done here in Canada too.

If you build it, they will buy.....

Isn't there a movie about that,,,, or some-such?

 

[RifleBlog]

Kinda crazy that it costs $1.15/round to make ammunition at the 350,000pcs scale.

Prime is pretty dumb for thinking this type of middleman business arrangement was ever sustainable forever.

 

[Snuby642]

You can bet RUAG was well aware of it.

It is probably RUAG's buisiness model.

I had a lesson on this with a product, developed it, copyrighted and was trying to patent.
Entered into a production agreement. Got screwed by my own trust in people.

Luckily the manufacturer did not understand where and how to market it.
I learned a lesson, build the stuff yourself so you maintain controll.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

What happened to developing a product, manufacturing your own products, building and maintaining industry in America?

The root of all evil, sit in you cubical and expect paid well for doing damn little.
Offload everything except cashing checks.

A long time ago we had an industrial revolution and it made America great.
We built products and jobs and were a happy society in general.

Now it's the cubical revolution, jobs gone, ability to produce lost.
Not able to compete producing anything.

Appears we have shit in our own mess kit!
Not that any snowflakes will ever know what a mess kit is.

Here's my understanding of the problems: Mass reloading equipment is expensive and requires specialized knowledge to run and maintain effectively. The machines themselves have a significant lead time for building and delivery - possibly years. Locating manufacturing space, licensing, approvals, etc. is also expensive and time consuming. All of this came into play with the last Obama ammo scare, as manufacturers were not willing to lay out time and money to add physical capacity for what was likely to be a temporary surge in demand.

 

[Snuby642]

I have experienced manufacturers burden in a fortune 500 company.
It is just more expediant to offload in most cases.
Even to the point of needing employees and hiring contractors for all manufacturing even at your own facility.

I fully expect these practices to be unsustainable as well.
As for management and engineering, can't wait to see them offloaded the same way.

Just go ahead and sell it to China and get it over, walk off with your cash and screw everyone.

 

[BigRed308]

Whether these two things are related or not, Midway just sent an email about 30-50% off Norma brass and ammo. I am not saying it is related, but then again it is quite coincidental.

 

[Snuby642]

Beat me to that same observation.
Nothing to see here move along.

 

[Primus]

Prime should have been using some of that revenue to procure these: https://www.markvii-loading.com

While slowly ramping up. They would then at least be able to make product to keep the lights on while this winds through the courts.

 

[Lowlight]

great interview with Jim,

Will be posted soon

 

[Primus]

Whether these two things are related or not, Midway just sent an email about 30-50% off Norma brass and ammo. I am not saying it is related, but then again it is quite coincidental.

That's not even really a sale. You can find most Norma brass in $100/100 shooter packs from various very vendors. Let me know when they ha e 6.5cm & G & 300wm for $.50/per

 

[Nik H]

That's not even really a sale. You can find most Norma brass in $100/100 shooter packs from various very vendors. Let me know when they ha e 6.5cm & G & 300wm for $.50/per

Agreed

Their loaded 6.5 Creedmoor is $32.99/box...LMAO

 

[_Windrider_]

The US Govt should terminate any contracts with RUAG for norma products for the ASR. Seriously we should petition the WH and contact Trump Jr.

 

[BigRed308]

The US Govt should terminate any contracts with RUAG for norma products for the ASR. Seriously we should petition the WH and contact Trump Jr.

I am honestly surprised Trump Jr. isn't involved already. But then again, its politics so he may be behind the scenes. Hell, he can provide the capital for Prime since he is such a LR shooter. It would be interesting to know what kind of ammo he shoots..maybe he's a prime fan

 

[RifleBlog]

Are you guys that dumb?

Do you really think the President of the United States is going to intervene and leverage a $2 billion dollar multinational defense conglomerate to settle an $800,0000 "he said / she said" dispute with a marketing company who failed to sell the ammo they promised they would?

 

[Lowlight]

Here is the interview with Jim from Prime

Everyday Sniper Podcast

The Everyday Sniper Episode 155 Interview with Jim from Prime Ammo | The Everyday Sniper

The Everyday Sniper Episode 155 Interview with Jim from Prime Ammo Important podcast here, I interview Jim from Prime Ammo about the countersuit filed against RUAG Swiss Ammotec. Jim and Prime Ammo are locked in a battle with RUAG over the Prime Ammunition used here in the US.Jim goes into...

theeverydaysniper.podbean.com

Legal Fund Set up too

 

[usmcmad]

With Prime out of the picture right now what has everybody moved to who was using the 6.5 ammo? Anything comparable that is readily available?

 

[Nik H]

With Prime out of the picture right now what has everybody moved to who was using the 6.5 ammo? Anything comparable that is readily available?

I have always used Hornady ELD-M 140 grain as a backup.

I have started evaluating the Federal GMM 130 grain OTM. I believe it is a Berger bullet. Stated MV is 2850 fps. DOPE to 600 appears very similar. I hope to run some chrono data using a Labradar when I can borrow it from my bud. Going to get to try it out at 1,000 yards in mid-June.

 

[_Windrider_]

Are you guys that dumb?

Do you really think the President of the United States is going to intervene and leverage a $2 billion dollar multinational defense conglomerate to settle an $800,0000 "he said / she said" dispute with a marketing company who failed to sell the ammo they promised they would?

If he wants to Make America Great again he should care. But hey what do I know. Apparently I’m dumb.

 

[BigRed308]

I was just relating Trump Jr.'s interest in long range shooting...

 

[ClangClang]

I just picked up a case (300 rounds) of Nosler 6.5CM 140gr Custom Match for $273 (91cpr) with free shipping. Best deal I'm aware of right now. Looks like they still have a couple cases left on sale.

 

[c.blackwell1]

So when will this 6.5 saum ammo be hitting market? I'll buy two pallets please...

No worries though RUAG messed with the wrong Country don't they know Americans love jury trials, i mean come on...

That’s to good...

 

[c.blackwell1]

Love the podcast @Lowlight

 

[JeffLebowski]

@javentre

 

[TxWelder35]

The US Govt should terminate any contracts with RUAG for norma products for the ASR. Seriously we should petition the WH and contact Trump Jr.

If you think for one second that the Trump business would not act the same as RUAG did you are truly blind. Big business is as ruthless as war. Trump is a business steamroller.

 

[tomcatfan]

If you think for one second that the Trump business would not act the same as RUAG did you are truly blind. Big business is as ruthless as war. Trump is a business steamroller.

And Trump has done far worse in running his businesses. Trump has a history of using bankruptcy as a get out of debt tool, often times leaving contractors high and dry for services rendered. As much as people are freaking out, this is completely irrelevant on the grand scheme of things. I'm not saying it doesn't suck for Prime but this is REALLY small potatoes.

 

[TheMammoth]

Phenomenal interview.

 

[MysizeisMAGNUM]

Listened to the interview on my way home from work. What a great guy, can’t wait to hear about the future of Prime.

 

[b6graham]

With Prime out of the picture right now what has everybody moved to who was using the 6.5 ammo? Anything comparable that is readily available?

Hard to argue with the Berger stuff. Lapua brass...

 

[Nik H]

Hard to argue with the Berger stuff. Lapua brass...

Factory loaded?

Lapua isn't selling loaded yet are they?

 

[lash]

Loaded with Lapua brass

 

[Diver160651]

Unfortunatly my PRIME sticker and CORE stickers might just end up collector items..

That said, I wish Jim the best.

 

[Nik H]

View attachment 7062663

Loaded with Lapua brass

That is what happens when you get complacent.

Thanks for the info

 

[sabrecross]

Here is the interview with Jim from Prime

Everyday Sniper Podcast

The Everyday Sniper Episode 155 Interview with Jim from Prime Ammo | The Everyday Sniper

The Everyday Sniper Episode 155 Interview with Jim from Prime Ammo Important podcast here, I interview Jim from Prime Ammo about the countersuit filed against RUAG Swiss Ammotec. Jim and Prime Ammo are locked in a battle with RUAG over the Prime Ammunition used here in the US.Jim goes into...

theeverydaysniper.podbean.com

Legal Fund Set up too

Just finished listening to the podcast and I was very impressed with Jim. Thanks for sharing his message.

 

[Blaster7Romeo]

I just saw another intervwer where Prime stated that Ruag had actually produced the 6mm CM and 6.5 SAUM ammo and it was on the way to america

https://www.full30.com/watch/MDIwMzA1/what-happened-to-prime---the-full-story

 

[Dthomas3523]

I just saw another intervwer where Prime stated that Ruag had actually produced the 6mm CM and 6.5 SAUM ammo and it was on the way to america

https://www.full30.com/watch/MDIwMzA1/what-happened-to-prime---the-full-story

Yea, that’s all in the lawsuit. It was ready and they required upfront payment.

Got payment and didn’t deliver.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Listening to podcast now. Lots of respect for Jim now.

He’s far too nice a guy to be tied up with the cutthroat type business it seems ruag is.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Looks like Prime missed the initial sales deadline, a new form of financing was agreed upon verbally, and the new payment structure was honored by both parties for 6mos. Then the terms were altered for the “new” ammo order and money was applied to past due balance unbeknownst to Prime.

Prime are basically hoping that by countering with 16 counterclaims for $1mil/per that they will reach a settlement because RUAG will be afraid to appear in court in the USA.

It may be very hard to prove facts regarding the second addendum monies but I wouldn’t go before a judge if I were RUAG.

My guess is Prime is out of business even with a settlement. No way they get paid and stick around as a thorn in the foot of the real players

They didn’t “fail to meet the first deadline.”

The agreement said that after the first two years, they return any unsold ammo to ruag to sell as they wish. A “failure” would have been to refuse to return the ammo.

What they did is to take the value of that ammo and turn it into a loan. Which was about 2million.

If this is true, then it was definitely a bait and switch or at a minimum a walk back on an agreement.

The question is if that agreement was legally binding.

 

[fxdrider]

I saw on RUAG Ammotec's Facebook page on April 15 someone gave a "Do Not Recommend" rating due to their "Shady and unethical business dealings". Perhaps we should all pay their page a visit and voice our disgust with them.

 

[THEIS]

I saw on RUAG Ammotec's Facebook page on April 15 someone gave a "Do Not Recommend" rating due to their "Shady and unethical business dealings". Perhaps we should all pay their page a visit and voice our disgust with them.

Hi,

May want to let the Courts determine that first beforehand. IF Ruag wins the lawsuit then all those public defamation/reviews can become their own case(s).

Also it may not be wise to collaborate such practices utilizing this forum for such; as it would take about 2 minutes of searching on the internet to bring lawyers eyes onto the forum.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[PDXGS]

Well said Theis...
I suggest that we all sit back and watch this unfold.

 

[Lowlight]

As Jim noted in the interview

There is no reason to get malicious, you can protest their actions without getting ugly, you speak with your wallet in this case.

Hornady, Federal, Berger, Lapua, all brands you can support with no reason to take the low road.

 

[Winny94]

Very shortsighted on RUAG's part. They really have no idea how many customers will boycott them as a result of their business practices.

This is an honest question, not a smartass comment - can you name any mfg in this industry that suffered longterm damage by a boycott? especially one that has as many brands as Ruag does. It seems we always gets up in arms, but then 6 months later, no one cares.

 

[candyx]

The key to the game is your capital reserves . You don't have enough, you can't pee in the tall weeds with the big dogs.

 

[Diver160651]

Crowd source Cartridge idea:::

Maybe partner with David T
115DC 6mm Creed.. .62 G1 @ 3000fps

 

[Timo Turl]

RUAGs response posted up