Problems with COLT CRP 18 PRO

[Holeshot]

Well I bought a Colt competition CRP 18 pro

Colt Competition Rifle "Pro" Model CRP-18

For those unfamiliar with this rifle it is supposed to be a "high end" rifle geared towards 3 gun.

It has a 223 wylde chamber. I have never owned a gun with this 223 wylde chamber. I shot the rifle several times before I tried to extract a live round from the chamber.
The first time I do I notice that it is very stuck. I "pogo" the rifle on my leg and the round comes right out. Im shooting bulk regular old 55gr lake city federal 5.56.
Having never owned anything with this chamber I wasn't sure if this was normal or not. Since the rifle shot just fine I decided to let it "break in" for a while.

I shoot three gun locally with Indiana multigun.

I took this rifle to a match on sunday june 1st and this problem almost almost cost me the match.

One of the RO's tried to clear my rifle at the end of a stage while I was clearing my shotgun and could not get the round out.
I explained that the chamber was a little tight and you needed to bump the butt stock to get the round out. I did my usual method of "pogoing" on my leg and it pulled the case off of the bullet spilling all of the powder out and leaving the bullet in my bore/throat.

Luckily this was the end of that stage so I had enough time and was allowed to take my rifle to the safe zone and use my emergency rod I had in my tool kit to knock the bullet out.

I was also allowed to continue with that rifle and was also allowed to shoot the last round out upon completion of the next stages thanks to understanding RO's and the rest of my squad.

I am disappointed to say the least. This rifle is over $2000 msrp and is supposed to be a ready to rock out of the box rifle.

This is also supposedly the exact model Colt's pro shooter Clint Upchurch uses to compete.

I was directed by customer service to leave a message for "Glen", their rifle tech and I am still waiting on a response. It has only been hours so far.

Anyone had similar problems with this chamber?

 

[LRRPF52]

Probably a short throat cut with the reamer on the end of the reamer's life, leading to shorter leade, which the 55gr FMJ with its tangent ogive will engage too early, causing jamming into the lands and pulled bullets like you encountered.

If I were you, with that throat, I would not send it back if you really want to push the performance of the gun. It sounds like you could get some great accuracy with secant ogive pills with it.

If you intend to continue to shoot 55gr FMJ/tangent ogive, then your throat will probably need reaming, but this is fairly easy to do by a competent smith (not many of those around nowadays).

I personally would load up some 75gr Hornady A-MAX in PRI mags, and see what she does with that bullet. Keep those mags for your long range stages, then blast away with M855 for your close range hose sessions. M855 has a more secant ogive, and should chamber without jamming into the lands like your 55gr Federal load is doing.

.223 Wylde was meant to address this issue, so you have a short leade is my guess.

 

[Holeshot]

Thanks for the reply! Good info.

Here are a few pics of the bullet. I would expect to see slight rifling grooves cut into the bullet.
Instead I see a evenly rubbed solid ring around the base of the ogive. Im not sure what this means. Is there a "forcing cone" effect in these chambers?
Why am I not seeing rifleing?

 

[Holeshot]

The pictures are as good as I could get. Its hard to see but there is no deeper grooves from lands. It is just an even ring.

 

[tickled pink]

It must be a very hard bullet to be fired and not have any deformation on the tip. Maybe if shot into water it might look like this (tip).

 

[Holeshot]

It must be a very hard bullet to be fired and not have any deformation on the tip. Maybe if shot into water it might look like this (tip).

This is the bullet that was stuck in the throat. It has not been fired.

 

[bm11]

I personally would NOT shoot this rifle again. A barrel that sticks mag length 55's needs some serious attention before you could consider it "safe." I'm surprised you didn't run into any pressure issues.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

OP,

First, either the ammo or barrel is an issue, as tolerances are stacking. This is not acceptable. The issue must be resolved. The consequence is not just poor match results, but, from the inability to clear the rifle, there is a safety concern . I have had this issue on many occasions, 3 of them were due to bad chambers. I no longer do business with the guy who chambered those barrels. My most recent barrel would cause my hand loads to stick. I switched from full length resizing with a Redding die to full length resizing with an RCBS die and the problem vanished, the problem being a tight shoulder/neck case/chamber engagement.

 

[Holeshot]

Thanks for the replies!

Update: Glenn from Colt Competition called me back and explained he has been on the family ranch in Montana and apologized for the delay of response.
He was very friendly and concerned about the how the rifle could have left the shop this way. He assures me that in the years they have been manufacturing this rifle this is the first and only time he has ever run into this problem. (lucky me) They are sending me a shipping label and assured me the rifle will be re barreled and re-certified for accuracy(the rifle comes with a laminated test target). He said when they get the rifle they will have it on the way back to me in 48 hours. So far it sounds like they will be making it right and in a timely manner.

 

[bm11]

Thanks for the replies!

Update: Glenn from Colt Competition called me back and explained he has been on the family ranch in Montana and apologized for the delay of response.
He was very friendly and concerned about the how the rifle could have left the shop this way. He assures me that in the years they have been manufacturing this rifle this is the first and only time he has ever run into this problem. (lucky me) They are sending me a shipping label and assured me the rifle will be re barreled and re-certified for accuracy(the rifle comes with a laminated test target). He said when they get the rifle they will have it on the way back to me in 48 hours. So far it sounds like they will be making it right and in a timely manner.

That sounds like great service. Please let us know how it turns out.

 

[Kells81]

You will probably be sending it in to Breckenridge TX where they are built. I was sent one of these through work and its a nice gun and is a super deal for the price I paid. Went to my FFL last night to pick up a rifle I ordered and he had a second box for me. Was a nice surprise to get a gun your not expecting.

As far as not catching this in QC I would bet it wasn't caught because ejecting a live casing probably isn't part of the process. I had a RRA Match rifle with about the same issue. It would chamber the rounds fine but you had to mortar it to get a live one out. I would bet they don't put rounds in the gun that they don't intend to shoot out of the gun.

 

[broke_again]

Hmm. My Colt CRP pro has this exact problem. I cannot let my chamber get the slightest bit dirty. I have never had a bullet stick in the chamber when I eject a round. I started using a small base die in an effort to keep the brass from sticking.

They are some tight chambers for sure.

You will probably be sending it in to Breckenridge TX where they are built. I was sent one of these through work and its a nice gun and is a super deal for the price I paid. Went to my FFL last night to pick up a rifle I ordered and he had a second box for me. Was a nice surprise to get a gun your not expecting.

As far as not catching this in QC I would bet it wasn't caught because ejecting a live casing probably isn't part of the process. I had a RRA Match rifle with about the same issue. It would chamber the rounds fine but you had to mortar it to get a live one out. I would bet they don't put rounds in the gun that they don't intend to shoot out of the gun.

 

[Kells81]

Broke- the OP stated he is running fed 5.56. That ditches the reload problems/solutions. Pretty sure mine has 223 stamped on the barrel. Match chamber and 556 spec ammo may not play well together.

 

[Holeshot]

Broke- the OP stated he is running fed 5.56. That ditches the reload problems/solutions. Pretty sure mine has 223 stamped on the barrel. Match chamber and 556 spec ammo may not play well together.

If this gun was a 223 chamber I would totally agree but the use of 223 and 5.56 rounds in the 223 Wylde is supposedly part of the advantage of this chambering.

The .223 Wylde is a proprietary rifle cartridge chamber with the external dimensions and lead angle as found in the military 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge and the 0.2240 inch freebore diameter as found in the civilian SAAMI .223 Remington cartridge. Rifles with a .223 Wylde chamber will typically accept both .223 Remington and externally slightly larger 5.56×45mm NATO ammunition.[1]

The .223 Wylde hybrid chamber was designed by Bill Wylde of Greenup, IL to exploit the accuracy advantages of the .223 Remington chambering without pressure problems or compromising the functional reliability of (semi) automatic weapons like the AR-15 family when using 5.56×45mm NATO military ammunition.[2] Coincidentally, it shoots the relatively long and heavy 80-grain (5.18 g) bullets commonly used in the sport of Highpower Rifle Competition very well and is one of the preferred chambers for that use. The Wylde chamber is used by a few rifle manufacturers who sell "National Match" configuration AR-15 rifles, barrels, and upper receivers.

Quote from wiki.

 

[Kells81]

I understand that about the wylde chamber. The problem is its still not a full spec 556 chamber and you will run into problems putting some 5.56 ammo in them. Its a bit on the tighter side of the 556.

 

[pawprint2]

I too would be interested in how it shoots other ammo, the bulk 55gr Fed is not known as the "finest ammo" available. There is a problem with either the gun or the ammo, checking how the rifle fires with better ammo, would be a quick and easy way to narrow down the source of the problem.

 

[jbell]

Well that always suck to be the lucky one (ask me how I know...). But on the other hand the customer service sounds great! I have been thinking about one of these and if this turns out how I would expect then the CRP is still on the short list.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

There seems to be some divergence in opinion on what ammunition is safe for a "Wylde" chamber. About 15 years ago the Ky State Rifle Team used M193 for practice sessions. It worked fine in match conditioned rifles chambered for 5.56. Some folks on the team had rifles with the Wylde chamber. Some of those guns broke down by the end of the season from shooting the M193 rounds. My own experience is that velocity from 5.56 shot in Wylde chambered barrels produces greater velocity than published for 5.56 and therefore I am assuming higher pressure too, perhaps, too much pressure to be considered appropriate. For the last decade all of my match barrels have been chambered for .223 by CLE. I ocassionally shoot factory .223 match and standard ammunition, which produces good results from such chambering. I don't see the value of the Wylde chamber in any shooter's application.

 

[lennyo3034]

I had the same issue with a BCM SS410 barrel and to a lesser extent to a CLE turned Douglas barrel. Problems went away with a little break in.

 

[LRRPF52]

That ring is being created by the reamer. It should not leave a freebore area that causes a short throat for factory ammunition. There is a fine line between reliability and accuracy, and worn reamers or bad reamers can give you one and not the other.

 

[JARHEADSF4]

I also just got a colt cpr pro-18. Looks great and all that with colt logo and name in 9 different places. When looking at the lower it's says 'colt competition .223 cal. I know that whats on the lower doesn't mean anything so i looked on the barrel where it say '.223 rem.

All the ads say it takes 5.56 and 223 but that is not whats on the barrel. When calling in i was told there is a wylde chamber in that gun.
So how am i supposed to know that or more important how do i trust that when it is no where on the gun or in the manual.

Having a wylde chamber is a plus so why would you put it in a gun but not mark it somewhere?

New to this-old retired marine with eye sight issues so caps make it easier for me to read and write.

 

[Kells81]

I put some rounds down on mine today and didn't have a single issue. Put out around 100 rounds mostly loads using 69SMK's and some unknown named brass from midway(unknown to me anyway). Shot 1/2-3/4" and functioned perfect. I had my carbine with me and some Fed whatever the hell the stuff 55gr 556 ammo is in the 420 round can (XM193 I think). I was able to load, unload, and fire without issues or sticking. Hopefully yours gets worked out.

As far as the marking I am baffled why you would want to shoot crap ammo out of a rifle like this in the first place. It doesn't matter as far as this thread goes though.

 

[JARHEADSF4]

Update on crp 18 issues

I heard from colt which was just glenn reading from a script i think. Says in their parlance when they say .223 rem. They mean .223 wylde. So do we have to start guessing what colt/bold idea's really means when they stamp the barrel.

This flys in the face of another of my colts the colt competition rifle cpx 14.5.the manual says .223--the lower say colt competition .223 but the barrel is correctly marked '5.56 nato 1/9'

is there a way to determine what chamber you have in a rifle?

 

[Kells81]

You could do a chamber cast.

 

[JARHEADSF4]

Aaaammmm-how do i do that gunny?

 

[Kells81]

Its best left up to a smith.
How to do a chamber casting - YouTube

 

[Holeshot]

I put some rounds down on mine today and didn't have a single issue. Put out around 100 rounds mostly loads using 69SMK's and some unknown named brass from midway(unknown to me anyway). Shot 1/2-3/4" and functioned perfect. I had my carbine with me and some Fed whatever the hell the stuff 55gr 556 ammo is in the 420 round can (XM193 I think). I was able to load, unload, and fire without issues or sticking. Hopefully yours gets worked out.

As far as the marking I am baffled why you would want to shoot crap ammo out of a rifle like this in the first place. It doesn't matter as far as this thread goes though.

Thanks. I hope it gets worked out soon too.

As to why the cheapo federal I just don't see the need to spend the extra money on anything better to hose targets from 0-25 yards. I use a different mag with 69 grain handloads for the 275yard stuff.

 

[Holeshot]

Well I have been waiting for something new to happen before I post again but here is an uneventful update.

I sent an email to Glenn on the 6th of June with all the info he requested. So then I was just waiting on my shipping label. On the 11th I sent another email just asking if my first email was received. On the 12 I called Glenn and he didn't answer so I called customer service at Bold Ideas. They told me they had not got an email from Glenn and knew nothing about it. They told me to forward the email I sent Glenn and they would get a RO going. While I was on the phone with them Glenn called me back so I answered his call. He apologized for not getting back with me and says he is not sure why I haven't received a label. He said he will take care of it. Its the seventeenth and no label. There is a weekend in there and I'm still waiting patiently but I am thinking......48 hour turnaround on the repair but 12+ days to get a label??

 

[Holeshot]

Update:

It has now been a full 14 days that I have been waiting on a "shipping label". I tried to call Glenn a few more times and got no answer. I called Bold Ideas(Colt Competition) again and explained my situation again and that it has been 2 weeks and no label. The guy on the phone apoligizes and mutters somthing about Glenn being "way out there". Haha. Whatever that means. He says he will go look for the RO and see if one has been sent and he will call me back. He calls back and says he could not find one but has now sent one and has also sent me an email that contains a link where I can just print it out. Well What The Heck? I waited 2 weeks for a three second email? Why even waste a stamp sending me anything? If I were more versed in shipping procedures I would have asked if that was possible 12 days ago. Oh well. I've got it now. I will be boxing it up and shipping it out on monday the 23 of june. My confidence in this turn around is shakey but as long as it goes well from here all will not be lost.

I will update again and let you guys know how its going.

 

[bm11]

That's disappointing, I hope that your luck improves.

 

[jbell]

Yes agreed. I hope that they can redeem themselves from here on out. If not there are definitely companies who want your business and are willing to work for it. Keep us posted...

 

[JARHEADSF4]

Wait until you get the rifle--if you do--than try and find someone who knows where you can get an accessory rail. They include a 2" section and thats it. And of course it's 'unique' so you can't just use anything it has to be theirs. Them with all the key-mod stuff around the 'advanced pro crp-18' you have to remove the hand guard in order to attach anything.

Beautiful weapon with some great features but bold idea's/colt needs to get the customer service up to speed.

 

[Holeshot]

Wait until you get the rifle--if you do--than try and find someone who knows where you can get an accessory rail. They include a 2" section and thats it. And of course it's 'unique' so you can't just use anything it has to be theirs. Them with all the key-mod stuff around the 'advanced pro crp-18' you have to remove the hand guard in order to attach anything.

Beautiful weapon with some great features but bold idea's/colt needs to get the customer service up to speed.

Im not sure what you mean by wait untill I get the rifle? I've posessed the rifle for two months. I've probably got 500 rounds through it now. (425 of them were before I discovered the sticking chamber). Sorry if I was unclear about that.

As for the rail and the sectons of picatinny I dont have plans to mount anything so I personally am ok with just the top rail. But I can very much understand the need or want for this. Even though it says colt in 4 places I suspect the handguard to be a 15" samson evolution. I have never shopped for their rail sections but I assume you can get them.

And thanks! I also like the look of the rifle. I hope like hell this is the end of this BS. I just want what I paid for.

 

[Kells81]

Wait until you get the rifle--if you do--than try and find someone who knows where you can get an accessory rail. They include a 2" section and thats it. And of course it's 'unique' so you can't just use anything it has to be theirs. Them with all the key-mod stuff around the 'advanced pro crp-18' you have to remove the hand guard in order to attach anything.

Beautiful weapon with some great features but bold idea's/colt needs to get the customer service up to speed.

It is a Samson Evolution setup and rails and accessories can be had very easily. As far as installing them you do not need to remove the hand guard you just have to be kinda skilled. I sent an Email to the person who setup our guns which lead to an Email from Glynn explaining why they didn't put a swivel stud in the deal so you could run a SBRM. The Swivel came from YHM and I added it to my last midway order at a whopping $1.99 and used the hardware sent with the gun to attach the rail. Supposedly you can put them in the cross slots but I didn't try it. I don't see why you couldn't but who knows.

 

[JARHEADSF4]

Yep--i forgot about the 500rds you put through it. I aslo think it's a samson. I want to mount a harris bipod on the bottom which i would have thought that colt/bold idea's would have put a swivel stud in as part of the factory build on an 18" rifle. I also wante to put a reddot on the side for close range as i'll use the rifle for prairie dog shooting.

I have a shelby gt500 super snake and sometimes you start to think this is a reverse engineering project.

Caps are due to eye sight so take no offense.

 

[JARHEADSF4]

Your way ahead of me on the whole thing i guess. I'd be interested in what glen gave as a reason for not putting the swivel stud in like they did/do on the 6720 and 6724. Any clue as to how a 'skilled' guy does it without removing hand guard? I can picture how it's done but was hoping we had moved past that stage.

I thought it was a samson hand guard but call colt and asked about getting extra rails and was told no they are unique to colt and not yet available.

 

[Kells81]

This is from my e-mail conversation about it.

"As for the lack of a bipod stud on a CRP-18, that rifle was specifically designed for and is marketed to top-notch three-gun-match shooters, none of whom would run a bipod or a sling on their rifles; it would just be in the way when shooting in matches. That is also the reason for the smaller-diameter handguard (~1.8” D.) we supply on this Colt Competition Rifle only and on no other Colt Competition model. "


Also this about the hand guard

"Samson Mfg Co. supplies our CRP-18 handguards as a variant of their Evolution handguard line. They have various bipod/swivel adaptors for the CRP-18 Colt Competition Rifle model available at http://www.samson-mfg.com/category/EVOLUTION_ACCESSORIES.html"

 

[Kells81]

And this will get you all kinds of shit to attach to your rifle. You can get 2,4,6,8" rial sections. Getting them on without removing the hand guard is all about how you hold your tongue.
Gun Parts by Gun Make & Model | Gun Parts

 

[Sterling Shooter]

This is from my e-mail conversation about it.

"As for the lack of a bipod stud on a CRP-18, that rifle was specifically designed for and is marketed to top-notch three-gun-match shooters, none of whom would run a bipod or a sling on their rifles; it would just be in the way when shooting in matches. That is also the reason for the smaller-diameter handguard (~1.8” D.) we supply on this Colt Competition Rifle only and on no other Colt Competition model. "


Also this about the hand guard

"Samson Mfg Co. supplies our CRP-18 handguards as a variant of their Evolution handguard line. They have various bipod/swivel adaptors for the CRP-18 Colt Competition Rifle model available at http://www.samson-mfg.com/category/EVOLUTION_ACCESSORIES.html"

Wonder if it's really marketed to "top-notch"? I think it's marketed to folks wanting to get into it.

 

[bluto77]

This is disappointing to hear. I had one of these before, and it shot great. I had none of the problems you're having. Regrettably, I sold it. I've been looking for another one though to use in 3 gun (which I'm new to). I'll be waiting to see how this ordeal turns out for you first. Not looking too good so far. Best of luck with it.

 

[JARHEADSF4]

Thanks gunny--samson must monitor the site because i got an email from them the same night. So that problem solved.

Also read quote of glenn about "rifle was specifically designed for and is marketed to top-notch three-gun-match shooters, none of whom would run a bipod bla-bla-bla". I guess it's ok for me to use mine for prarie dog shooting. I've got my nikon prostaff 5 mounted and will get bipod asap.

Last question. The barrel is marked .223 with no reference to wylde chamber yet in their ads and in conversation with glen they say 5.56 is ok. It's not a question of what ammo i will use but of the marking itself. All my other rifles are marked 'wylde' or 5.56 or both. A good example is my pws.

Semper fi gunny--be safe

 

[Kells81]

OP did you get anywhere with this or still in limbo?

 

[Holeshot]

I started making a box to put the original box inside for shipping and got called away to travel for work. I just got back and finished boxing it up and will ship on Monday. I should have finished it the first day but I didn't know I would be gone. This part of the lag in time is my fault. Duty calls.