Problems with stability of Swarovski ATX 95mm scope

[secondofangle]

I previously had a Zeiss 85 mm (sold) and Swaro ATS 80 mm scope (sold) and am now using an ATX 95mm which I got after Shot Show this year. I LOVE the scope. BUT, ever since I got it I have had problems stablizing it. With the ATS, I could use a Manfrotto 190 series tripod with vertical Squeeze grip head with no problems. That scope was lighter. I upgraded to the horizontal squeeze grip which has a higher load capacity, and an 055XPROB tripod (the one that the HOG saddle guy recommends for his rifle rest). I am still having stability problems. When on high power 70X it is very hard to get a good image, as ANY touching of the scope for focus or whatever leads to vibrations which severely degrade image quality, ESPECIALLY if there is ANY wind. Viewing Jupiter tonight was severely compromised by image vibrations.

I tried a Magnesium ball head (054) and that didn't help, so I returned it.

I have ordered the SSR ii (Swarovski Spotting Scope Rail II) which has not yet arrived (backordered) - hopefully this will make a difference, but I'm not holding my breath.

I"m also waiting on the DCB II so I can take videos of long range shots and hunting, and of course stability will be a big issue with that application also.

I see that many of the birders are using Gitzo Carbon tripods (WOW, expensive!) but I'm having trouble understanding why you need a tripod/head that is rated at 3-4X the weight of this scope to stabalize it.

I've been through so much equipment so far trying to stabalize this thing that I feel a bit exasperated.

Has anybody used this scope (ATX 95mm) on high power and found a platform that will stabalize it for good images? Will the SSR II fix my problem or do I need to go overkill and spend $1000+ on a tripod and head rated at 5X or greater weight limit for this scope? There are ball heads rated for 100# or more and HEAVY Video tripods and Video Tripod heads with the arm that I could get, but I'm just weary of trading equipment over and over. The birders seem to like the video heads with the arm adjustment feature, but that will make it harder to use the scope to glass for animals at long range.....

Input appreciated...

 

[scudzuki]

Manfrotto fluid head.

Joe

 

[secondofangle]

Manfrotto fluid head.

Joe

What does the fluid head do that helps with stability?

 

[scudzuki]

What does the fluid head do that helps with stability?

It's a stiff tripod head.

Increased stiffness = less flex.

I have one on a Manfrotto (branded Zeiss) carbon fiber tripod that is also stiff as hell. EuroOptic still has demos for sale. Mine looked new when I bought it.
http://www.eurooptic.com/zeiss-full...-with-fluid-head-17-93-996-like-new-demo.aspx

I have another fluid head I adapted to a small Giottos tripod for prone use.

A helpful feature is that you can shift the scope fore and aft to center the mass of the scope directly over the Manfrotto's pivot point. This allows me to apply a small amount of tension to the azimuth and elevation lock screws, allowing the scope to be moved without unlocking but not moving on its own.

Joe

 

[secondofangle]

I took the scope to the local camera dealer and tried it on a fluid video head. There was no difference. I'm hoping the SS Rail II helps. If not, I'm going to ahve to live with it.

I may try to spread out the legs of hte tripod and weight the center pole to see if htis helps esp in the wind.

My own thought is that the weak spot in the entire linkage is the mounting ring that is part of the scope. That thing is flimsy. When you hold hte scope, you can torque it on that ring. Underengineered, if you ask me. Hopefully the SSR II helps.

 

[Dogcityrollers]

I use an atx95 with a carbon fibre manfrotto tripod. Look up the manfrotto 502hd liquid video head. Very stable platform and for the money a good solid base for the swarovski. This head has a built in balancing rail and is very good for digiscoping and spotting. I use mine with a compact digital camera- nikon p330 and have had very satisfactory results with this set up.

 

[Dogcityrollers]

Forgot to say I bought the tripod and fluid head for about the same price as the swarovski balancing rail. Look the heads up online.They are getting really good reviews for the money. Hope this helps.

 

[scudzuki]

Forgot to say I bought the tripod and fluid head for about the same price as the swarovski balancing rail. Look the heads up online.They are getting really good reviews for the money. Hope this helps.

Zeiss Manfrotto Carbon Tripod with Fluid Head On Sale!

 

[Dogcityrollers]

A good deal there but the head there isn't as heavy as the 502. The balancing rail on the 502 makes a world of difference- especially when you flick the camera down with the dcb11. The nikon p330 is a great small camera which has full 1080p recording whichever produces excellent videos.

 

[steve123]

I have a heavy spotter too, with same tripod, and found that if standing and spotting - that hanging a heavy object which touches the ground diminishes oscillation or putting the legs out wide when sitting in a chair also makes a huge difference.

 

[Exo]

not to sound like a douche here, and without any experience in the expensive stuff ya'll are talking about have you verified nothing is touching the tripod? like your foot/leg/arm/etc? I just throw my spotter on my backpack and use it prone so I dont have any issues like this. still, very interesting. One would think that with a $450+ tripod, and a $4K spotter, with all the different heads you have tried, one would THINK that you could get a stable platform built....

 

[secondofangle]

not to sound like a douche here, and without any experience in the expensive stuff ya'll are talking about have you verified nothing is touching the tripod? like your foot/leg/arm/etc? I just throw my spotter on my backpack and use it prone so I dont have any issues like this. still, very interesting. One would think that with a $450+ tripod, and a $4K spotter, with all the different heads you have tried, one would THINK that you could get a stable platform built....

I agree with that last sentiment.

you would have to come use my scope to fully understand. If you just barely touch the focus ring at 70x, the thing vibrates so much that you cannot focus - becuase the image is so degraded by motion while you're touching the focus ring that you can't focus! so you let go, and it's not focused, and then you touch it again, motion degrades image, you stop focusing, image stabalizes, it's not focused, and you start over. Until you get it by trial and error it's a mess and you have to do it over and over again.

It does not help that focusing on 30x is not the same as focusing on 70x, so you can't focus on 30 and then dial up to 70x - it needs refocused.

Now, add just a touch of wind, and things are all out of whack.

My disasspointment is that I sold my ATS 80 HD to get this new updated scope - and I find that the 70x is not of use to me because the fucking scope is not stable enough. I have just about ruled out every possibility other than the ring around the scope that the mounting plate is part of. THAT's the weak link. Swaro missed the boat here.

If the SSR II fixes this, I'll post an update here. Until then, my advice to people looking at this scope is: BEWARE. It's hard as hell to get it stable. And, no, I've come to disbelieve claims that I have the wrong tripod or head. The equipment I'm using is weight rated at 3x+ the weight of the scope. That's NOT the issue. The thing is just unstable, period. I mean seriously. Look at that little skinny ring around the scope and tell me, please, that my Manfrotto 055XPROB is the weak link. Seriously.

<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20131224_160440436_zpsy91rpj3r.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20131224_160440436_zpsy91rpj3r.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20131224_160440436_zpsy91rpj3r.jpg"/></a>

 

[diverdon]

I have two ideas you might want to try. First hang a twenty or thirty pound weight (lead shot or a dumbel) from the apex of the tripod. Second, use some duct tape to connect the 'skinny little ring' to the scope body. If that helps send a letter to Swaro asking for a better fix or a refund.

 

[scudzuki]

I agree with that last sentiment.

you would have to come use my scope to fully understand. If you just barely touch the focus ring at 70x, the thing vibrates so much that you cannot focus - becuase the image is so degraded by motion while you're touching the focus ring that you can't focus! so you let go, and it's not focused, and then you touch it again, motion degrades image, you stop focusing, image stabalizes, it's not focused, and you start over. Until you get it by trial and error it's a mess and you have to do it over and over again.

It does not help that focusing on 30x is not the same as focusing on 70x, so you can't focus on 30 and then dial up to 70x - it needs refocused.

Now, add just a touch of wind, and things are all out of whack.

My disasspointment is that I sold my ATS 80 HD to get this new updated scope - and I find that the 70x is not of use to me because the fucking scope is not stable enough. I have just about ruled out every possibility other than the ring around the scope that the mounting plate is part of. THAT's the weak link. Swaro missed the boat here.

If the SSR II fixes this, I'll post an update here. Until then, my advice to people looking at this scope is: BEWARE. It's hard as hell to get it stable. And, no, I've come to disbelieve claims that I have the wrong tripod or head. The equipment I'm using is weight rated at 3x+ the weight of the scope. That's NOT the issue. The thing is just unstable, period. I mean seriously. Look at that little skinny ring around the scope and tell me, please, that my Manfrotto 055XPROB is the weak link. Seriously.

<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20131224_160440436_zpsy91rpj3r.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20131224_160440436_zpsy91rpj3r.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20131224_160440436_zpsy91rpj3r.jpg"/></a>

The ring does look pretty wimpy. The one on my new Diascope 85 looks a little beefier and at least 1-1/2 times as long, and I have no problem with stability, enough to crank the Zeiss up to 75x (at which point the resolution is still amazing, I might add). It's a shame that Swaro dropped the ball on that little (but oh-so-important) detail of what is otherwise a class leading instrument.

I wonder if you could dampen the vibration by hanging some weight forward of the mount off the scope body. In the machine shop, when turning or milling a part with a thin section that wants to "ring", attaching rubber (like sheets of innertube held on with rubber bands) can attenuate much if not all of the resonance.

Joe

 

[Dogcityrollers]

I agree with that last sentiment.

you would have to come use my scope to fully understand. If you just barely touch the focus ring at 70x, the thing vibrates so much that you cannot focus - becuase the image is so degraded by motion while you're touching the focus ring that you can't focus! so you let go, and it's not focused, and then you touch it again, motion degrades image, you stop focusing, image stabalizes, it's not focused, and you start over. Until you get it by trial and error it's a mess and you have to do it over and over again.

It does not help that focusing on 30x is not the same as focusing on 70x, so you can't focus on 30 and then dial up to 70x - it needs refocused.

Now, add just a touch of wind, and things are all out of whack.

My disasspointment is that I sold my ATS 80 HD to get this new updated scope - and I find that the 70x is not of use to me because the fucking scope is not stable enough. I have just about ruled out every possibility other than the ring around the scope that the mounting plate is part of. THAT's the weak link. Swaro missed the boat here.

If the SSR II fixes this, I'll post an update here. Until then, my advice to people looking at this scope is: BEWARE. It's hard as hell to get it stable. And, no, I've come to disbelieve claims that I have the wrong tripod or head. The equipment I'm using is weight rated at 3x+ the weight of the scope. That's NOT the issue. The thing is just unstable, period. I mean seriously. Look at that little skinny ring around the scope and tell me, please, that my Manfrotto 055XPROB is the weak link. Seriously.

<a href="http://s277.photobucket.com/user/secondofangle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20131224_160440436_zpsy91rpj3r.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/secondofangle/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20131224_160440436_zpsy91rpj3r.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20131224_160440436_zpsy91rpj3r.jpg"/></a>

I hAve the same tripod with the 502 hd. I'll post a picture of it up to you see the difference in the 2 heads. There should be a lot more stability with the heavier head and more balanced because of the built in rail. Here you go.

 

[secondofangle]

What's the built in rail?

 

[Dogcityrollers]

There's a rail on top of the head that you can slide back and forth to balance your setup and a screw on the side to move it and lock it in place.

 

[boyscout]

I have this scope and the swaro tripod and head also had the 80 hd.
1. you will always have to refocus when moving thru the power range.
2. i believe they rail will help with balance maybe not the shake.
3. adding weight to the tripod is always a good thing.
4. if you continue to have problems PM me and i will get you in contact with THE MAN that is all things digiscoping at SWARO.
5. don't buy anything else until you speak with him.

 

[secondofangle]

Well, guys, I converged on the Fluid head you all have been recommending and I should have listened earlier, but my buddy just LOVES those squeeze heads - but they're just not cut out for the job this scope presents to them.

I got the 502 tonight and with the SSRII it is pretty darned stable - stable enough I can live with it. And I think i'll really end up liking the video head.

I'll keep my squeeze head in case my wife ever lets me get teh 65mm objective - I bet it will be fine for that.

Thanks for all the input. Hopefully we have saves some other poor slob the grief I went through.

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[medic727]

Weight capacity really has nothing to do with how stiff it is. If the OP looks at his original setup there is wayyy to much distance between the tripod head mounting plate and the scopes mounting point. There's a whole lotta springboard there. Hanging a weight on the under of the tripod is a great idea. In fact many tripods come with a hook to attach the weight.

A great way to solve this problem is to use what is known as a geared head. It has a relatively short height and you can make very precise adjustments in all 3 axis. Each axis has it's own control knob. Some have a fine and coarse control. They also do not have any long control arms. A geared head is way more compact, there is no need to fold handles away before picking up and moving. The knobs don't haved to be stored away for travel. Check out: Manfrotto 410 Junior Geared Head - Supports 11 lbs (5kg) 410 B&H

 

[Onewolf42]

The Manfrotto MVH500AH fluid head I ordered recently arrived earlier this week. It's a huge upgrade functionality wise for my Razor HD 85mm spotting scope. I'm still using it on my Gitzo (photography) tripod until I decide which tripod I want for the spotting scope. I'm currently leaning towards the Mannfrotto 055XPROB.

 

[secondofangle]

The Manfrotto MVH500AH fluid head I ordered recently arrived earlier this week. It's a huge upgrade functionality wise for my Razor HD 85mm spotting scope. I'm still using it on my Gitzo (photography) tripod until I decide which tripod I want for the spotting scope. I'm currently leaning towards the Mannfrotto 055XPROB.

The 055XProB is what you see in my photo above. It's pretty nice and made in Italy.

At Shot show the Swaro scope guru at their booth suggested I consider a carbon tripod because it dampens vibrations better than aluminum and also that if I could find one with the stays or braces that connect all 3 legs that it would be sturdier.

Just food for thought.

 

[secondofangle]

Weight capacity really has nothing to do with how stiff it is. If the OP looks at his original setup there is wayyy to much distance between the tripod head mounting plate and the scopes mounting point. There's a whole lotta springboard there. Hanging a weight on the under of the tripod is a great idea. In fact many tripods come with a hook to attach the weight.

A great way to solve this problem is to use what is known as a geared head. It has a relatively short height and you can make very precise adjustments in all 3 axis. Each axis has it's own control knob. Some have a fine and coarse control. They also do not have any long control arms. A geared head is way more compact, there is no need to fold handles away before picking up and moving. The knobs don't haved to be stored away for travel. Check out: Manfrotto 410 Junior Geared Head - Supports 11 lbs (5kg) 410 B&H

When I look at the photos, I'm willing to wager that the current setup is actually taller than the original. But when I torque the current setup it doesn't move near so much as the squeeze grip one.

I will look into the geared heads, hell I've been to hell and back trying equipment on this and former scopes. BUT, the objection I'm going to get from my varmint hunting buddies is that there are too many goddarn knobs to loosen and tighten. Those guys like the squeeze grip because they can actually "glass" for critters with the scope. My best buddy spotted a bear several miles away in Montana that way several years back.

With the fluid head, you only have to lock the vertical tilt, the pan lock you can leave alone - so I'm guessing this is a good compromise.

 

[Marcoman]

I was having similar issues as the OP. I could not get my setup solid enough to utilize the higher magnification my scope offered. This thread served to help me with my decision and I could not be more pleased with my new tripod/head.

I bought a 055PROXB and put a Manfrotto MVH500AH fluid head on it. I definitely recommed a video fluid head! Very rigid and you can pan and tilt using one hand and focus with the other all without disturbing the spotting scope. There is enough drag/tension in the head that when you stop to view something you dont have to lock any of the adjustments solid... it will not move. If you are viewing a specific target for extended periods you can lock in your position if you like but it isn't necessary.
Have seen some dealers offering this as a kit for as low as $300. Good value in my opinion.

 

[secondofangle]

Here's another finding: My $200 SSR ii from Swaro has play in it:

Swarovski Spotting Scope Rail II SSR ii wobbles - YouTube

Waiting to hear back from Swaro rep, but looks like it's a design flaw - there's nothing to tighten the two pieces of plastic that dovetail together so that they're solid. Teh locking screw on the left does NOT tighten them, it just prevents the push pin from being accidentally pushed.

GRRRRRRR

 

[Dogcityrollers]

Here's another finding: My $200 SSR ii from Swaro has play in it:

Swarovski Spotting Scope Rail II SSR ii wobbles - YouTube

Waiting to hear back from Swaro rep, but looks like it's a design flaw - there's nothing to tighten the two pieces of plastic that dovetail together so that they're solid. Teh locking screw on the left does NOT tighten them, it just prevents the push pin from being accidentally pushed.

GRRRRRRR

That's seriously annoying. I was going to buy one of these also. Might have to make something up for it. I'm glad the video head worked out to be a better option for you.

 

[delixe]

I was just watching 2 carpenter bees fighting or dancing or whatever the hell you call their aerial antics.
They are 100 meters away according to my LRF, in the shade, and I can see their antennae with my Diascope 85 at 75x magnification.
It's on the Manfrotto CF tripod I linked above, and the 701 fluid head, while not as beefy as the 501, is strong enough to quell any vibration.