Maybe he got the dog from that guy who replaces their teeth with Ti implants...I think those are around that price range...
--Wintermute
--Wintermute
Protection dogs ?
- Thread starter alpha6164
- Start date
Kenny, thanks for the offer to source me a dog but I wasn't the OP, I believe that was Alpha that was looking for a PPD. However, I'm down in Mobile when I'm CONUS and have family in Fenix City, so may very well get in touch with you for a European puppy once I'm home (he/she is going to be a pet/room mate, I think I'm going to be done with "working dogs" for a while). I'm going to shoot you a PM because the Trainer that's working for me right now overseas is from your area and has heard of you but never met you and is looking for a puppy.
As the other guys have said, getting dog-guys to agree on anything is rare, but in this case I agree pretty much agree entirely with just about everything that Kennny (import GSD) and Toebuster have said.
I never personally gave a crap about Sch/IPO/KNPV etc other than it told me what that dog's background was, so I had a better idea of what it had already been taught or at least the manner in which it was taught. An alarming number of "sport dogs" would be positively worthless in a real fight. Biting and Fighting are 2 completely different things, and as that reference article pointed out, way too many of them are equipment-driven.
One thing I haven't seen brought up from a civilian/homeowner standpoint is that pretty much EVERY homeowners insurance policy asks if you have an "attack trained" dog in the house, and many ask about certain breeds, regardless of training. As an individual, understand that owning a dog that's been trained in this area opens you to ENORMOUS liability. The amount of damage that a dog that's been trained to bite properly can do is absolutely staggering. That dog in a life or death fight can easily kill someone, and THEY are making that decision while YOU are responsible for it.
The other point that's been raised and can't be stressed enough is the ability to CONTINUALLY train with a dog. If you own a PPD, that means finding a QUALIFIED decoy/helper that understands the dog's drives and knows what he's doing to keep the dog where you want him. I've seen a number of dogs that people spent crazy money for turn into pets because they didn't do the required maintenance.
As the other guys have said, getting dog-guys to agree on anything is rare, but in this case I agree pretty much agree entirely with just about everything that Kennny (import GSD) and Toebuster have said.
I never personally gave a crap about Sch/IPO/KNPV etc other than it told me what that dog's background was, so I had a better idea of what it had already been taught or at least the manner in which it was taught. An alarming number of "sport dogs" would be positively worthless in a real fight. Biting and Fighting are 2 completely different things, and as that reference article pointed out, way too many of them are equipment-driven.
One thing I haven't seen brought up from a civilian/homeowner standpoint is that pretty much EVERY homeowners insurance policy asks if you have an "attack trained" dog in the house, and many ask about certain breeds, regardless of training. As an individual, understand that owning a dog that's been trained in this area opens you to ENORMOUS liability. The amount of damage that a dog that's been trained to bite properly can do is absolutely staggering. That dog in a life or death fight can easily kill someone, and THEY are making that decision while YOU are responsible for it.
The other point that's been raised and can't be stressed enough is the ability to CONTINUALLY train with a dog. If you own a PPD, that means finding a QUALIFIED decoy/helper that understands the dog's drives and knows what he's doing to keep the dog where you want him. I've seen a number of dogs that people spent crazy money for turn into pets because they didn't do the required maintenance.
I know who this friend is
I think it's awesome that he gets to bring his dog on the plane like that, that's a really cool story! Wonder how many people that freaks out, not to often you see a personal protection dog on the plane...
" Biting and Fighting are 2 completely different things "
In my very limited experience, schutzhund or sport dogs are breed for extreme ball / prey drive. They can be hard to control because they're wound up like a dog on meth. I know a breeder that has purchased dogs that were culled from military work training, but their temperament was perfect for sport work. Never seen it, but I've heard of dogs that would go after the sleeve, even if it was thrown on the ground.
Anybody getting a large dog, look at hip/elbow scores of the parents and their past litters. It would be heartbreaking to get a dog and about the time he gets 'just right' at about 4 or 5, have to see him go through hip dysplasia.
In my very limited experience, schutzhund or sport dogs are breed for extreme ball / prey drive. They can be hard to control because they're wound up like a dog on meth. I know a breeder that has purchased dogs that were culled from military work training, but their temperament was perfect for sport work. Never seen it, but I've heard of dogs that would go after the sleeve, even if it was thrown on the ground.
Anybody getting a large dog, look at hip/elbow scores of the parents and their past litters. It would be heartbreaking to get a dog and about the time he gets 'just right' at about 4 or 5, have to see him go through hip dysplasia.
I have a few questions about the GSD. A little about my situation. I have a one year old and a three year old, so the vital thing to me is to have a dog that is completely safe around kids. I had a white GSD that my dad got from a friend that was moving, I know that dog would never have bit any kid. But, that dog has passed. I need one like him. How can you tell when you are looking at a puppy what his temperament is going to be throughout his life? I have no intention of doing any kind of protection training. I guess I expect that most dogs are born smart enough to give a few barks if someone is breaking into the house, and that's all I expect. I would also like to be darn sure that a puppy I was getting had been screened for common genetic defects and likely hood of developing hip problems.
" to have a dog that is completely safe around kids "
If a breeder tells you their puppy / dog is 100% completely safe unsupervised around your kids, they are lying. You'll have to decide what risks you're willing to take.
" How can you tell when you are looking at a puppy what his temperament is going to be throughout his life? "
You can't. His raising / experiences will make a difference too; it's not all hardwired in. The breeder will likely temperament test just before the puppies leave. They'll already have their own idea of who is the milder of the bunch and who is the nutjob, but they'll likely have someone that has never been around the puppies come test them.
" I guess I expect that most dogs are born smart enough to give a few barks if someone is breaking into the house, and that's all I expect. "
A guard dog may not make a good watch dog and a watch dog may not make a good guard dog. It sounds like you want a family companion that will warn of someone coming and look intimidating.
If a breeder tells you their puppy / dog is 100% completely safe unsupervised around your kids, they are lying. You'll have to decide what risks you're willing to take.
" How can you tell when you are looking at a puppy what his temperament is going to be throughout his life? "
You can't. His raising / experiences will make a difference too; it's not all hardwired in. The breeder will likely temperament test just before the puppies leave. They'll already have their own idea of who is the milder of the bunch and who is the nutjob, but they'll likely have someone that has never been around the puppies come test them.
" I guess I expect that most dogs are born smart enough to give a few barks if someone is breaking into the house, and that's all I expect. "
A guard dog may not make a good watch dog and a watch dog may not make a good guard dog. It sounds like you want a family companion that will warn of someone coming and look intimidating.
Diverdon,
Breeding a few litters like MTN said i will have a good idea but, much of that goes with you and the dog. i have sold puppies and got them back as being '' too aggressive''. Remember this, everything you want your dog to be stable around as an adult, it should be introduced to as a puppy! playgrounds,cars, people, stores, different surfaces i.e. slick,soft,hard MUST be introduced in a positive manner as a puppy, otherwise the dog will react to these situations as an adult, usually with fear and with fear comes aggression.
that being said, i sold a puppy that at 20 month's old specifically targeted a child in a group of children! why, because that child would torment the dog at a younger age when he was crated. the owners son and his friend would go mess with the dog after the dad had told them not to, dog was crated in a garage, and the ''friend'' got down at eye level and would growl at the pup, then kick his crate over. the dog after much questioning was not at fault. he was rehomed and loves children, but those children respect their parents and the dog!
MTN is also i would say correct in that you want a companion puppy or young dog. so i would suggest finding a lower drive puppy, very happy and outgoing. also look more at mom when looking as she has the most significant role in the puppies life and tempament those first 7-8 weeks! alot of breeders are full of $hit, they claim to do all kinds of testing, and this and that. like obedience training a puppy for you for $$$ in 4 weeks. can you teach your 1 yr old to use the toilet in 4 weeks? i doubt it, and also you must continue this training. i always suggest looking for a good trainer in your area, sch clubs included. many training directors are happy to hear you only want to teach obedience. also look into teaching tracking as it is very good for mental execise of a puppy! wanna wear a puppy out teach them to track
i'm sure a few of us could talk for pages on these subjects. what to look for, what to avoid. i'm glad to answer any questions with my opinion
thanks kenny
Breeding a few litters like MTN said i will have a good idea but, much of that goes with you and the dog. i have sold puppies and got them back as being '' too aggressive''. Remember this, everything you want your dog to be stable around as an adult, it should be introduced to as a puppy! playgrounds,cars, people, stores, different surfaces i.e. slick,soft,hard MUST be introduced in a positive manner as a puppy, otherwise the dog will react to these situations as an adult, usually with fear and with fear comes aggression.
that being said, i sold a puppy that at 20 month's old specifically targeted a child in a group of children! why, because that child would torment the dog at a younger age when he was crated. the owners son and his friend would go mess with the dog after the dad had told them not to, dog was crated in a garage, and the ''friend'' got down at eye level and would growl at the pup, then kick his crate over. the dog after much questioning was not at fault. he was rehomed and loves children, but those children respect their parents and the dog!
MTN is also i would say correct in that you want a companion puppy or young dog. so i would suggest finding a lower drive puppy, very happy and outgoing. also look more at mom when looking as she has the most significant role in the puppies life and tempament those first 7-8 weeks! alot of breeders are full of $hit, they claim to do all kinds of testing, and this and that. like obedience training a puppy for you for $$$ in 4 weeks. can you teach your 1 yr old to use the toilet in 4 weeks? i doubt it, and also you must continue this training. i always suggest looking for a good trainer in your area, sch clubs included. many training directors are happy to hear you only want to teach obedience. also look into teaching tracking as it is very good for mental execise of a puppy! wanna wear a puppy out teach them to track
i'm sure a few of us could talk for pages on these subjects. what to look for, what to avoid. i'm glad to answer any questions with my opinion
thanks kenny
The K9 guy and his sniffer dog just came through the office today. Doing a planted explosive practice run. Nice doggie, sat down next to my swivel chair. He says what's in your pocket? Had a loaded .308 round in my jacket. Holy crap, that's hermetically sealed! Still found it----amazing nose!
On a not so serious note, i rescued a yorkie this past summer. She isn't going to protect me, but she goes ape shit crazy when i go to the reloading store or the gun shop. And I have to calm her down. Plus she hangs with me while I reload. Which is pretty cool. Since my GF won't go with me to these stores, at least my dog will go. Funny thing is that when i mention going to one of these places, my dog runs to the door and is rearing to go
My personal experience....I worked for a K-9 center in Spokane, WA as a teen. I loved the job! The best day was when a Border Patrol Agent stopped by and told me and my boss Joe, our dog stopped 1/2 mil Coke from entering the US. We trained dog pound dogs, Karol's dogs (upward 15K each) each one was different. Some great, some bad. Our Border Patrol and drug dogs usually went for 5k when all said and done. Given this was back in the early 90's.
All I know, was the bite each dog had on the sleeve Joe had me wear, still hurt like hell! They have a ton of pressure. All the trained dogs were loving pets, great with kids. But if they sniffed bomb material(PETN, RDX, MEKP...) they went off like you wouldn't believe! Drug dogs the same, weed, coke, meth...
The typical trained guard dog for civilian use, still runs about 3K. A little extra for explosives and drug training. We could incorporate this training very easily at little extra cost. Maybe this is different in other geographical areas. A good trained dog shouldn't run more than 10K max.
All I know, was the bite each dog had on the sleeve Joe had me wear, still hurt like hell! They have a ton of pressure. All the trained dogs were loving pets, great with kids. But if they sniffed bomb material(PETN, RDX, MEKP...) they went off like you wouldn't believe! Drug dogs the same, weed, coke, meth...
The typical trained guard dog for civilian use, still runs about 3K. A little extra for explosives and drug training. We could incorporate this training very easily at little extra cost. Maybe this is different in other geographical areas. A good trained dog shouldn't run more than 10K max.
i do not own a high end rifle, or optics, i have an FN spr a1, it wears a sightron siii 3.5-10 illuminated moa/moa. i own a couple of nice pistols, neither customs, xd in .357 sig, a 1911, and about to pick up a rock island armory 10mm, i own 2 mossberg shotguns, a couple of ar's . i drive a 1994 z-71 chevy, and live in a 180k home. it all works for me. the only point i want to make is do what works for you. i don't care if someone can outshoot me. i'm not competing. i don't care what the dog cost or if it's a ''champion'' or son of a champion. like anyone else here i know what works for me! this maynot be the same for others. my drinkin buddy prefer's malinois, he owns a shepherd also that was bred by me, but prefers the mal. my wife likes dutch shepherds, we don't own 1 but she likes them.
you have to look at your own situation, what are your expectations? do you have the time and money to invest in follow on training with the dog? is there a capable trainer/decoy in your area? do research and lots of it. find the experts in the breeds you like or are interested in, notice i said experts, talk to as many people as possible that is how you gain knowledge. buy from the people or person you like or feel fits you best. i say this after owning many guns, many cars/trucks/ and alot of dogs, dobermans, schnauzers, gsd, rots, pitbulls, shit-zu's and another favorite of mine the shetland sheep dog ( miniature collie). dogs however are like guns, you can't put it in the safe and use it when you want. it takes care and practice. you can't persay try it out, but you can find people who own them and visit and see how the dog is in a family enviroment. just like our guns, read, go look at them. look up schutzhund clubs, ring sport, PSA, ASR, mondio ring, agility, and good old AKC obedience or Rally. any type of dog training, it doesn't cost to go watch, just be open minded and remember any advice is only 1 person or groups opinion. google is your friend.
you have to look at your own situation, what are your expectations? do you have the time and money to invest in follow on training with the dog? is there a capable trainer/decoy in your area? do research and lots of it. find the experts in the breeds you like or are interested in, notice i said experts, talk to as many people as possible that is how you gain knowledge. buy from the people or person you like or feel fits you best. i say this after owning many guns, many cars/trucks/ and alot of dogs, dobermans, schnauzers, gsd, rots, pitbulls, shit-zu's and another favorite of mine the shetland sheep dog ( miniature collie). dogs however are like guns, you can't put it in the safe and use it when you want. it takes care and practice. you can't persay try it out, but you can find people who own them and visit and see how the dog is in a family enviroment. just like our guns, read, go look at them. look up schutzhund clubs, ring sport, PSA, ASR, mondio ring, agility, and good old AKC obedience or Rally. any type of dog training, it doesn't cost to go watch, just be open minded and remember any advice is only 1 person or groups opinion. google is your friend.
Page Title please read this
Texoma K-9 Training Center LLC Dogs for Sale Page i also posted a paragraph from the bottom of the forsale page, i think most anyone that has imported or is ''in the know'' will agree with these statements
Protection dogs should not cost $10,000.00, $15,000.00, $25,000.00,
$35,000.00 or 65,000.00. So if you see prices in that range on another
website understand and research what you are buying. Also beware,
you're not buying anything that cannot be replaced or trained at a
more reasonable rate. Those companies do not like us saying that,
but it is true. Yes, titles add expense to a dog and they can add to the
overall prospected value of a dog. Pedigree and breeding ability
versus just being a worker will add value also. No, titles and pedigree
do not make a dog into a real family protection or police dog, neither
does a larger sticker price on the dog. It involves training for the dog
to make him or her into a family protection dog or police dog. Also
the dog's ability plays an important role and selecting the right dogs.
We are some of the most experienced trainers in the USA, the dogs
we select are hand chosen and because of our selection process, we
are able to provide the very best dogs that normally cannot be
purchased unless a person pays $10,000.00 or more. (obedience,
full body bite suit, civil, muzzle, hidden sleeves, temperamental and
socialization testing, and control during aggression). It takes time to
prepare and train the dogs, but not 10,000.00 + worth of training.
Texoma K-9 Training Center LLC Dogs for Sale Page i also posted a paragraph from the bottom of the forsale page, i think most anyone that has imported or is ''in the know'' will agree with these statements
Protection dogs should not cost $10,000.00, $15,000.00, $25,000.00,
$35,000.00 or 65,000.00. So if you see prices in that range on another
website understand and research what you are buying. Also beware,
you're not buying anything that cannot be replaced or trained at a
more reasonable rate. Those companies do not like us saying that,
but it is true. Yes, titles add expense to a dog and they can add to the
overall prospected value of a dog. Pedigree and breeding ability
versus just being a worker will add value also. No, titles and pedigree
do not make a dog into a real family protection or police dog, neither
does a larger sticker price on the dog. It involves training for the dog
to make him or her into a family protection dog or police dog. Also
the dog's ability plays an important role and selecting the right dogs.
We are some of the most experienced trainers in the USA, the dogs
we select are hand chosen and because of our selection process, we
are able to provide the very best dogs that normally cannot be
purchased unless a person pays $10,000.00 or more. (obedience,
full body bite suit, civil, muzzle, hidden sleeves, temperamental and
socialization testing, and control during aggression). It takes time to
prepare and train the dogs, but not 10,000.00 + worth of training.
a few more pics for you guys, my dog rocko doing getting a bite in the yard, solid black puppy is 1 of his my friend has, and the dobie i imported. the dobie was imposing and most people were scared of him on sight, but he loved everyone. never trained him for bitework, but did teach him to bark at people on command.
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Anyone have a line on protection cats? I like dogs too much to send them into harms way. I can't stand cats so I'd be fine with sending throngs of them to their demise in my service.
all trimmed up
like most dog breads they can very in size some of these dogs get massive
by far my favorite dog is and was the alapaha smart strong fearless and intimidating for my neck of the woods the are more than adequate.. mine was all white with one blue eye
Holy crap! I think I saw something like that in Lord Of The Rings! Half bear right? Either that or the naked guy is a midget.
Oh wow, you found pics of dogs on the internet. I suppose you own one of each?
these are Caucasian mountain shepherds
this is an Alapaha
I need to publicly thank Import_gsd for giving me a call and helping me out with questions I had about acquiring a protection dog. First off, I've done enough research to know he really knows what he's talking about, but beyond that, he took the time to pick up the phone and take the time to help someone out he's never even met.
Thanks much, Man I love the Hide!
Thanks much, Man I love the Hide!
hahahahahahahahahahahaha $80k? hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha
I could buy a VA rated male.
$80k. hahahahahahahhahahaha
997 You could buy a VA male for that possibly, alot of them are going for 6 figures these days. However if you want a dog for real protection, i would not get a dog that has been bred and trained specifically for show! atleast of the true BSZS german siegers, they are not good workers, many of them fail the courage test, do not score well in any of the segments, obedience, tracking or protection. i'm not saying that showline gsd's won't work, some do very well, i'm going to look at 1 in europe. that being said the majority are not good workers and have many faults, weak ears, weak hocks, weak nerves, lack of drive and spirit. most though just purely lack courage! on top of that they produce a large # of bad hips and elbows. they just don't send those in for certification, and some that do if the dog has a big enough name are ''lost'', i know this for a fact. showlines are the moneymaker for europe. some VA1 dogs have sold for upwards of 1 mil $, many go to asia for big big $$$.
sincerely kenny
p.s snipe10, no thanks needed, i feel most of you guy's deserve honest knowledge. i have gotten more from this site on shooting, loading, optics, bullets in reviews from others than any magazine or gun store ever taught me. so it's my way of giving back
sincerely kenny
p.s snipe10, no thanks needed, i feel most of you guy's deserve honest knowledge. i have gotten more from this site on shooting, loading, optics, bullets in reviews from others than any magazine or gun store ever taught me. so it's my way of giving back
onechance, was great talking with you. i prefer guys like you that know a little more, what you want, and how to train it properly. makes it easier to get what you want when you can tell me the traits you want like you did and know what drives your looking for, the temperment, and exactly what you plan to use him for. here is a pic of that female i'm getting and a link to some pups. i'll keep in touch and we'll see if we can get you a good pup. these pups i'm going to see in the cz republic and germany all have titled parents, breed surveyed and history of good hips . 1st pick is my new female, jessie, and 2nd is her brother jamiro. her breeder has a litter on the ground from same mom different dad. all boys their in the 3rd pic.
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here is litter pic, all boys, 3 dark sables, 2 black males
this litter is in the cz and should be some nice dogs Zucht des Zwingers BETT SILVER: Kery Kamos-Durabo und Aida Lost Illusions ? working-dog
another litter in slovakia i'm going to see >>> JA-IV-TO german shepherd kennel <<<
Zucht des Zwingers vom Teisenberg: Poker vom Weinbergblick und Biene vom Teisenberg ? working-dog german litter i've been watching and waiting on.
kenny
this litter is in the cz and should be some nice dogs Zucht des Zwingers BETT SILVER: Kery Kamos-Durabo und Aida Lost Illusions ? working-dog
another litter in slovakia i'm going to see >>> JA-IV-TO german shepherd kennel <<<
Zucht des Zwingers vom Teisenberg: Poker vom Weinbergblick und Biene vom Teisenberg ? working-dog german litter i've been watching and waiting on.
kenny
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Do you have links to Rottweilers? Wanting to get another.. lost a great one that was a rescue several years ago. I just don't trust the sites I have found online and none of them are remotely close to me. So no chance of going to visit them myself. Was thinking about rescue again, but have two young boys (3-8) now and the rescue route kinda scares me as most of them are young adults or adult dogs. Just looking for a home/family protection dog.
Zucht des Zwingers Ivory Rottweilers: Kliff von Tengen und Erna from House Rotvis ? working-dog
Zucht des Zwingers vom Hause Schwartz: Major vom Hause Neubrand und Unke vom Hause Anin ? working-dog
here are a couple breeders in tx. i'm not a rottie guy, but 2nd link are nice looking dogs. both sch3's sire is a german import. but you need to go visit dogs like these. just because the breeder looks good, doesn't always work out. also i'd ask about their selection process. again remember a dog under 2 yrs old really isn't mentally equipped to protect a family. also make sure and find a trainer with experience in the rot breed. do not take your puppy to be evaluated the 1st time you meet a trainer. you should be evaluating them to see if they fit what your looking for, not the other way around !
kenny
Zucht des Zwingers vom Hause Schwartz: Major vom Hause Neubrand und Unke vom Hause Anin ? working-dog
here are a couple breeders in tx. i'm not a rottie guy, but 2nd link are nice looking dogs. both sch3's sire is a german import. but you need to go visit dogs like these. just because the breeder looks good, doesn't always work out. also i'd ask about their selection process. again remember a dog under 2 yrs old really isn't mentally equipped to protect a family. also make sure and find a trainer with experience in the rot breed. do not take your puppy to be evaluated the 1st time you meet a trainer. you should be evaluating them to see if they fit what your looking for, not the other way around !
kenny
I received a couple of PMs and finally got around to responding. I apologize for the delay guys, as I mentioned in the PMs, I was hoping to get some good leads for you from some friends that keep up with the U.S. kennels, but I wasn't getting anything worth a shit and I didn't want to pass on what was at best 3rd hand information.
I'm kind of on the other end of the pipeline from Kenny, where I get dogs selected by someone else and am required to get them certified to a set standard, then maintain/improve their proficiency for regular validations and re-certifications. My life would be much simpler if I had a say in what dogs got selected.
I'm kind of on the other end of the pipeline from Kenny, where I get dogs selected by someone else and am required to get them certified to a set standard, then maintain/improve their proficiency for regular validations and re-certifications. My life would be much simpler if I had a say in what dogs got selected.
After losing our Dogue De Bordeaux last year, me and the wife have decided on a working line GSD. This thread has been very helpful in solidifying a lot of research.
We just finished visiting a couple of breeders in TN, and I cannot stress enough the importance of spending time with a breeder and observing the dogs in their home environment. I spent two hours yesterday with an IPO3 stud dog, playing tug with a water bottle around a dining room table. I fully expected to see a very aloof dog that would be wary of strangers in his home environment, but instead had him nosing me for more attention.
Kenny - I may PM you for your insights once I get a few ideas set from the last couple of weeks. Your input thus far is much appreciated.
We just finished visiting a couple of breeders in TN, and I cannot stress enough the importance of spending time with a breeder and observing the dogs in their home environment. I spent two hours yesterday with an IPO3 stud dog, playing tug with a water bottle around a dining room table. I fully expected to see a very aloof dog that would be wary of strangers in his home environment, but instead had him nosing me for more attention.
Kenny - I may PM you for your insights once I get a few ideas set from the last couple of weeks. Your input thus far is much appreciated.
wife said dog on left. so this is the male i will be breeding to, unless i get there and he has issues.
kenny
kenny
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If your family lives in an area where insurgents are targeting civilians that is probably a great choice.
I think you will love them, they make excellent family dogs. They are large and look very impressive (especially if you get a good intact male from a large father).
For looks from a distance, they have huge mouths and deep commanding barks / roars.
They are also very smart and will pick up right away on your cue if a person is to be considered friendly or a threat.
They love to be part of your family & their favorite place to be is right beside you or on the bed with you or one of the kids.
They will run and play all day with you & more and then crash like logs when they are done. They do need daily exercise and they like to run fast and long.
The only thing I would suggest is, if you have a big enough house & yard, get 2 of them instead of one, they will be much happier & you will get to enjoy all the cute and adorable things they do together. It's like kids, two are better than one.
If you are looking for one for home protection, I would suggest at least one of them being an intact male & from a father that is in the 110 pound + range. Also if you get one that has more of the blocky head style, in dark red wheaten with a black mask on their face, then they will look very impressive and intimidating.
If you can arrange to go see the litter at 6 to 7 weeks, you can see exactly what personality each puppy will have. From breeding them, I can tell you, in the same litter you can have everything from calm and collected to totally wild and crazy with energy.
Might want to look at the Boerboel as well. They require less effort to wear out and keep happy on a daily basis.
Care to elaborate?
Have you raised any yourself from pups in a loving home?
If you have any specific questions about something, I'd be happy to reply with what I know from my experience.
Right now I have a 115 pound male and a 80 pound female curled up in bed for the night right beside my desk.
Their litter last summer was 10 puppies that were all sold to good homes & are growing up nicely (from the photos / messages I have gotten back).
W54
i will elaborate.
1st of all recommending 2 puppies to anyone except an experienced trainer is RETARDED. the puppies will bond with each other and not the handler/family! anyone around dogs and training are not usually intimidated by the ''size'' of a dog. i have walked into many ''man eater'' dogs kennels. my gsd stays with me throughout the day. not in a bothersom was just wants to be around me. lays beside my chair when i'm online, sits at my feet while watching t.v. , sleeps beside my bed, or beside the couch if any of the kids fall asleep there. he doesn't require exercise!
it's all about teaching them to turn the drive off. if rodesians were such great guard dogs and protection dogs don't you think big name sellers would be training them? there is a reason the majority of breeders/ trainers use mals,gsd, and dutchie's. because they are more intelligent and easier to train! they have the right drives and temprament for work.
kenny
i will elaborate.
1st of all recommending 2 puppies to anyone except an experienced trainer is RETARDED. the puppies will bond with each other and not the handler/family! anyone around dogs and training are not usually intimidated by the ''size'' of a dog. i have walked into many ''man eater'' dogs kennels. my gsd stays with me throughout the day. not in a bothersom was just wants to be around me. lays beside my chair when i'm online, sits at my feet while watching t.v. , sleeps beside my bed, or beside the couch if any of the kids fall asleep there. he doesn't require exercise!
it's all about teaching them to turn the drive off. if rodesians were such great guard dogs and protection dogs don't you think big name sellers would be training them? there is a reason the majority of breeders/ trainers use mals,gsd, and dutchie's. because they are more intelligent and easier to train! they have the right drives and temprament for work.
kenny
Thanks for the response.
I'm assuming that most families these days are out of the house a good part of the day (assuming each parent working, kids going to school etc.) I've found that the dogs I've raised are happier when they had a companion rather than when they were left alone. (That may vary with other breeds since I've never had or raised German Shepherds and some of the other more popular Guard dogs.) They still know who the master of the house is and are just as attentive and loyal as ever. Also specific to Rhodesians, they need lots of exercise and with a partner, they will do a lot of vigorous play themselves if you have a yard for them.
I would agree totally that those who know dogs or who are not idiots are not impressed by the looks of the dogs, but those people also won't care about how good of an attack dog / protection dog your animal is as they will just kill it first and then proceed on (much as the police seem to do so often in the news). I would say however that impressive looks actually do help a lot in deterring the lower intelligence / drive end of criminals in a suburban setting, and I would base this on my observed reactions of which people get worried when I open the door and one of the dogs is with me to greet them.
For strictly guard dog work and protection dog work, a Rhodesian may not be the best, but they excel as part of an active family in a setting with a reasonable amount of space. They also are very good at alerting to anything out of the ordinary. They are not as aggressive towards attacking people as other breeds have been setup to be & in my opinion in a average suburban setting, that is a good thing as you may not want to have to worry about your dog savaging the wrong person if you are not right there.
I would say they are not as popular for several reasons, one of which is that they are not dogs that like to be left alone, they get bored with repetitive things & they are rather willfully independent. They have more energy for exercise than many others & you can take them for a 3 mile run and they are just getting warmed up. Probably also even more important is they don't have that killer street cred that is so popular. In addition, being short haired dogs, they do very well in hot climates, but are not well suited for cold areas.
In my opinion they are an excellent breed that is underappreciated. There are however a wide variety of different breeds available and different breeds come and go in popularity as the years go by. One of the modern advantages is that easily accessed research information & availability of a wide variety of breeds has never been better so you could pick exactly what traits you want.
I'm assuming that most families these days are out of the house a good part of the day (assuming each parent working, kids going to school etc.) I've found that the dogs I've raised are happier when they had a companion rather than when they were left alone. (That may vary with other breeds since I've never had or raised German Shepherds and some of the other more popular Guard dogs.) They still know who the master of the house is and are just as attentive and loyal as ever. Also specific to Rhodesians, they need lots of exercise and with a partner, they will do a lot of vigorous play themselves if you have a yard for them.
I would agree totally that those who know dogs or who are not idiots are not impressed by the looks of the dogs, but those people also won't care about how good of an attack dog / protection dog your animal is as they will just kill it first and then proceed on (much as the police seem to do so often in the news). I would say however that impressive looks actually do help a lot in deterring the lower intelligence / drive end of criminals in a suburban setting, and I would base this on my observed reactions of which people get worried when I open the door and one of the dogs is with me to greet them.
For strictly guard dog work and protection dog work, a Rhodesian may not be the best, but they excel as part of an active family in a setting with a reasonable amount of space. They also are very good at alerting to anything out of the ordinary. They are not as aggressive towards attacking people as other breeds have been setup to be & in my opinion in a average suburban setting, that is a good thing as you may not want to have to worry about your dog savaging the wrong person if you are not right there.
I would say they are not as popular for several reasons, one of which is that they are not dogs that like to be left alone, they get bored with repetitive things & they are rather willfully independent. They have more energy for exercise than many others & you can take them for a 3 mile run and they are just getting warmed up. Probably also even more important is they don't have that killer street cred that is so popular. In addition, being short haired dogs, they do very well in hot climates, but are not well suited for cold areas.
In my opinion they are an excellent breed that is underappreciated. There are however a wide variety of different breeds available and different breeds come and go in popularity as the years go by. One of the modern advantages is that easily accessed research information & availability of a wide variety of breeds has never been better so you could pick exactly what traits you want.
I don't doubt for a second that they make excellent family dogs. The three top breeds for PPD already mentioned, are all herding dogs, the RR belongs to the hound group. Completely different set of drives, temperament, and work ethic.
You keep throwing nonsense, like weight and size is important for PPD. It's not, my own GSD pictured on the previous page is 72 pounds! Most mals and dutchies are even lighter than that. You mention twice to get a pup from a father that is "110 pound + range", why? You suggest that a dog can make the determination of friend or foe. Really?
I'm not going into your recommendation of getting 2 litter mates, Kenny got that already.
Bullshit on looking at a litter and knowing what the pup will mature to. Sure certain traits can be observed among the pups, but there is no telling what each will eventually become.
Curious, have you ever worn a sleeve or bite suit and worked any dog in bite work?
In closing. I am not aware, or have seen any Police K9 unit, Military Working Dog unit, etc using RRs, and there is good reason why.
Look. it's obvious you are passionate about the breed, and that is commendable. But please stop trying to inject it in a world it doesn't belong.
$80,000? This is ludicrous! Police departments are paying between $5000-$8000 for a fully trained dog, a 1 second google will reveal what departments are paying. These guys must be great marketers some may even call them con-artists. I don't see how one of their "level 1" dogs would be as good as let's say 10 fully trained police dogs, at the high end of cost. Just like some other things, if you charge more for X, a bunch of fools will actually believe it is better than Y. They don't want to be confused by facts! BTW, there is a program allowing good American's to adopt a retired military K9. If you are looking for a good dog, that in the event some low life scum decides to break in to your home, I bet they can still take care of business. The other benefit is self explanatory. God bless all that adopt one of these vets! H.R. 5314 on 6 Nov 2000,civilians can adopt a retiring Military Working Dog!
pawprint,
good idea, but to everyone else there is a long waiting list and those dogs are preferred to go to a home with experience. also look at the age of most of the dogs, they are older and are being retired for a reason. i'm not saying don't look into this if your interested, quite the opposite. but there are requirement's, it's not like going to the pound and picking a dog.
Diver and i agree on most things and would probably get along great, or will after he comes back. don i'll shoot you a pm on a young dog you may be interested in as your house buddy.
W54 why would you recommend a willfully independent dog that needs loads of exercise for a suburban family? like diverdon i agree you are passionate about your breed, but please don't endanger families by having them believe that the rhodesian will protect them! unlike you i am also passionate about my breed, but also very aware of what i am breeding, raising and testing pups and placing the right pup with the right family. experienced handlers can pick a pup from my litter, families do not! the reason being that puppy that is so cute is probably way too much for them! i generally talk with families or new prospective owners for some time. i also let them know that i want what's best for them and my dogs. therefor i will pick a few puppies that will fit them and their lifestyle. i take into consideration many things, color they would like to have, sex, and what they want from a puppy/dog. that being said families are usually happiest with my lower drive pups, not independant, and very social. training a single dog/puppy is a serious commitment! little lone trying to train 2 of them. like diver said before maybe you should suit up and take a bite from a trained dog, and see what level of ability they have not only to bite, but also so you can see these are not ''vicious'' animals, actually quite the opposite. also like diverdon said and i tried to elude to earlier, there is a reason most police, ppd, and military units stick with the herding breeds, their drives are genetically pre-disposing them to this type of work. high pack drive " want to work for the handler", high in prey, ball/toy. food, and along with that defense/fight drive, these dogs do not run from a fight but into it! they were genetically bred to guard, be social, and love unconditionally.
best regards kenny
good idea, but to everyone else there is a long waiting list and those dogs are preferred to go to a home with experience. also look at the age of most of the dogs, they are older and are being retired for a reason. i'm not saying don't look into this if your interested, quite the opposite. but there are requirement's, it's not like going to the pound and picking a dog.
Diver and i agree on most things and would probably get along great, or will after he comes back. don i'll shoot you a pm on a young dog you may be interested in as your house buddy.
W54 why would you recommend a willfully independent dog that needs loads of exercise for a suburban family? like diverdon i agree you are passionate about your breed, but please don't endanger families by having them believe that the rhodesian will protect them! unlike you i am also passionate about my breed, but also very aware of what i am breeding, raising and testing pups and placing the right pup with the right family. experienced handlers can pick a pup from my litter, families do not! the reason being that puppy that is so cute is probably way too much for them! i generally talk with families or new prospective owners for some time. i also let them know that i want what's best for them and my dogs. therefor i will pick a few puppies that will fit them and their lifestyle. i take into consideration many things, color they would like to have, sex, and what they want from a puppy/dog. that being said families are usually happiest with my lower drive pups, not independant, and very social. training a single dog/puppy is a serious commitment! little lone trying to train 2 of them. like diver said before maybe you should suit up and take a bite from a trained dog, and see what level of ability they have not only to bite, but also so you can see these are not ''vicious'' animals, actually quite the opposite. also like diverdon said and i tried to elude to earlier, there is a reason most police, ppd, and military units stick with the herding breeds, their drives are genetically pre-disposing them to this type of work. high pack drive " want to work for the handler", high in prey, ball/toy. food, and along with that defense/fight drive, these dogs do not run from a fight but into it! they were genetically bred to guard, be social, and love unconditionally.
best regards kenny
It's best to ask a question with the intention to learn, on a subject you are unfamiliar with.
Pushing your opinion as fact is foolish at best.
Not unfamiliar, just feel a professionally trained family 'protection dog' is little more than a novelty at best, and a liability at worst.
It's also best to recognize a question posed rhetorically...
It's also best to recognize a question posed rhetorically...
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