How about bean bag from a 40mm launcher.... (or 37mm if you happen to be stuck with civilian stuff).
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Protesters at ICE facility in Aurora pull down American flag and raise Mexican flag
- Thread starter memyselfi
- Start date
How about bean bag from a 40mm launcher.... (or 37mm if you happen to be stuck with civilian stuff).
You must have missed the part where I said it was truly offensive. Regarding reading comprehension, as you said "I can't help you."
Agreed. The voters are getting what they seem to be supporting, and that says a great deal (none good) about the political climate in Portland.
It is interesting how times have changed. During the Viet nam war protests, the police would often form up onto a phalanx and using the 3'-4' long billy clubs would just march into the crowd busting heads to disperse them. Now, the police just stand by and watch while protesters block streets, or attack those with whom they disagree.
I think (hope) we will soon see citizens filing federal law suits against the Portland power structure that fails to protect citizens who are attacked when they in places they have every right to be. To be sure, it isn't the best judgement for someone with a MAGA hat to go into an Antifa protest, but if they have a legal right to be there, the police should not simply stand by and watch while someone is being attacked.
I think (hope) we will soon see citizens filing federal law suits against the Portland power structure that fails to protect citizens who are attacked when they in places they have every right to be. To be sure, it isn't the best judgement for someone with a MAGA hat to go into an Antifa protest, but if they have a legal right to be there, the police should not simply stand by and watch while someone is being attacked.
I have zero problem with reading comprehension but your defeatist attitude that you allude to baffles me. Your entire post was kind of like, well it happened, what can we do? Like brushing stuff under the rug. If we all have this oh well attitude then we might as well just give everything up now and quit wasting our time discussing anything on this forum, or voting or educating or anything.
I'm not defeatist, I am realistic. There is nothing that can be done about what happened AFTER THE FACT. What needs to happen is convincing those in power that the public doesn't want these incidents to happen in the future. To that end, I have ideas but I'm not king and don't get to implement my ideas any more than anyone else on this site.
The government has plenty of ways they could stop, or at least discourage those incidents. They have both the hardware, knowledge how to use it, and the money and personnel to use the knowledge and hardware. Getting those in power to give the orders to stop and/or discourage those incidents is the problem.
In cities like Portland, the police will even stand by while people are assaulted and let the assaults happen rather than intervening.
I write letters to my elected officials, and vote, but I'm not about to begin shooting people because they want to tear down a flag in some town hundreds of miles away from me. I'm just not quite sure what you expected people to do, but I would be most interested to hear your suggestions.
P.S. While I disagree with their decision, the Supreme Court has said flag burning is protected under the 1st amendment. I have to live under plenty of laws or legal decisions I don't like, just like lots of other people.
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Fuck the government, time to start painting the sidewalk red.
If I were king, this issue would have been solved already. However, I'm not king, and I (like many other people) choose to live under the laws of this country.
Because the Supreme Court said that flag burning or other desecration of the flag is protected under the 1st amendment, in the incident where the American flag was lowered, abused, and replaced with a Mexican flag, options are unfortunately quite limited. Even if the police wanted to intervene (note that I said wanted, because they could if they had adequate orders), they would be left with crimes such as theft, or similar crimes that would in all probability be misdemeanors.
Police departments are stuck with decision making over how much work they want to create for themselves. They have to make decisions about whether it is worth risking the safety of a number of officers to wade into an crowd of hostile antifa's to make an arrest for what would probably be a misdemeanor where no one is being physically assaulted.
Hell, they won't even arrest people for assault in Portland, so I really doubt they will risk the safety of the officers to make a misdemeanor arrest or 10.
I note that in Tacoma yesterday, the police did shoot and kill an anarchist who was throwing Molotov cocktails toward the ICE facility. So I guess it all depends on the crime, and the orders from the higher ups. Perhaps it was because the guy in Tacoma was attacking a Federal Facility and they had orders that were different from those that Portland officers receive. Or maybe it was because the molotov coctails he was throwing would constitute deadly force... In any case, sometimes the police do take care of business.
Because the Supreme Court said that flag burning or other desecration of the flag is protected under the 1st amendment, in the incident where the American flag was lowered, abused, and replaced with a Mexican flag, options are unfortunately quite limited. Even if the police wanted to intervene (note that I said wanted, because they could if they had adequate orders), they would be left with crimes such as theft, or similar crimes that would in all probability be misdemeanors.
Police departments are stuck with decision making over how much work they want to create for themselves. They have to make decisions about whether it is worth risking the safety of a number of officers to wade into an crowd of hostile antifa's to make an arrest for what would probably be a misdemeanor where no one is being physically assaulted.
Hell, they won't even arrest people for assault in Portland, so I really doubt they will risk the safety of the officers to make a misdemeanor arrest or 10.
I note that in Tacoma yesterday, the police did shoot and kill an anarchist who was throwing Molotov cocktails toward the ICE facility. So I guess it all depends on the crime, and the orders from the higher ups. Perhaps it was because the guy in Tacoma was attacking a Federal Facility and they had orders that were different from those that Portland officers receive. Or maybe it was because the molotov coctails he was throwing would constitute deadly force... In any case, sometimes the police do take care of business.
Fuck the SCOTUS, they are criminally corrupt, they caused the first civil war and will cause the upcoming one, their actions already made the war inevitable. Once it starts the rats in DC must pay the price for their crimes.
John Roberts is a communist Pedo.
John Roberts is a communist Pedo.
It seems somebody has his number, somebody high up in the side of evil and is using his sins to make sure he does as he is told.
Most all Courts have been politicized for awhile now. You even see guys rooting/bashing on here all the time. Which means very few are following the law of the land.
I law that does not apply to everyone, applies to no one!!
The Black robe's do not get to make up laws, no matter who they are!
I law that does not apply to everyone, applies to no one!!
The Black robe's do not get to make up laws, no matter who they are!
I have a problem with them switching the flags. I have a bigger problem with the people, Americans, whether they are there in an official capacity, cops, federal employees, etc, or just civilians that let this actually occur.
I tend to agree with AJ on this one. SCOTUS should have NEVER considered that the "burning the flag" as any part of "freedom of speech". They should have thought of all the men and women that have made the ultimate sacrifice, wars past and present, and realized how disgraceful this is to our country. This is still the GREATEST country on this planet and what's being done to it, is just plain terrible. My total respect goes out to the men and women in the Armed Services of today. When I did my time, I did and went where ever Uncle Sam sent me (yeh, I bitched some too, not going to lie) and I was proud to do my job and of the job that I did, at least during that time, I knew what I was fighting for!
This country is turning into one BIG shitshow and I wish I were "KING" so I could do what I could do to fix it. Shit, I wish it was the 70's or 80's again. Mac
This country is turning into one BIG shitshow and I wish I were "KING" so I could do what I could do to fix it. Shit, I wish it was the 70's or 80's again. Mac
Fuck the government. This is our country and our flag, not the government's.
We're damned close to a boiling point and the government agents found to be aiding and abetting illegals and socialists will be made to pay.
It's a nice thought, but police will take the side of illegals if there is a confrontation, and it won't be pretty. These people have been granted immunity- from- any- prosecution status. How do you get police/government to do the right thing? Wish I knew. Protesting, leftist-style? Maybe show up at Antifa rallies? Meet these cowards with overwhelming force? Who will organize it? Seems like it's too late for voting. The country is slowly being taken over by illegals and various socialist/anarchist groups. The 'system' is being used to bring it down, simply by stacking the vote. Dems sit back, let it happen, promote it. Every day even one illegal gets in is a win for them.
You're right. As the sooner our side fully understands/identifys who the real enemy is, the quicker it starts an gets over with.
I agree with your sentiment that it is OUR flag, and not the government's. The flag represents a great many wonderful and powerful things to me. Primarily, the Flag represents the very best people this country that were willing to build the country from a British colony into the most powerful country on the planet. It also represents those who have defended the country in the past and present.
No other country in the world comes even close to the USA in terms of people wanting to come here either legally, or illegally, and that says a lot.
Among the various freedoms Americans have fought for is the freedom to express themselves in protest. While I find the desecration of our flag and national symbols to be extremely offensive and I disagree with those who would do so, those feelings (my disagreement with them and being offended) are precisely why they choose those actions.
A totalitarian system that meets any protest with extreme violence could swing either way. In other words, what is offensive to me, may become the norm at some other time. If antifa's actions are met with extreme violence, those same tactics could some day be turned around 180 degrees, and those who support conservative ideals could be met with extreme violence.
Following the French Revolution, Thomas Paine (in his book The Rights of Man) spoke about the extreme violence those who won the revolution visited on the former power elite. Some were horrified about the level of violence, and Paine's response was to ask what people expected from the masses, because the level of violence being visited upon the former power elite was precisely the level of violence that the power elite had taught the masses was "normal" behavior. The masses were merely doing what they were taught.
The same thing could happen in the USA unless we are able to learn from history.
Rant over.
Very true and eloquent words. However, if this behavior goes on unabated then victory is already theirs. Some say they are pushing themselves farther from their own while others would argue that they are doing nothing but giving them motivation to carry out more/worse things. At some point you have to decide whether something is worth defending or not, or there won’t be anything to defend. I’m not sure what that looks like. Trust me nobody wants war in the streets of the USA. Anyone that has ever seen such atrocities can tell you that. However, I’m not sure where you draw the line. Violence has already been and is being committed against conservatives or anyone wearing a MAGA hat. It’s only going to get worse, especially if there is no opposition. I do find it quite funny that these people are becoming exactly what they are supposedly against. But then again, maybe that was strategy the entire time.
You can burn any fucking flag you like as long as it's your personal private property. Once you cross the line to burning someone else's you have an ass kicking (or worse) coming.
Why can't you get that?
Why can't you get that?
Communists have to be shot. You can’t reason with a communist, because individuals already have no value, so they see no reason to listen to anyone.
It will come to shooting them. It always does.
It will come to shooting them. It always does.
Communists have already shot at us. A response in kind is overdue.
I believe the guard at the ICE jail just executed his plan, and a commie. Now how do we scale this up.
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And, that’s my point. At what point do you respond? I get wanting to take higher ground and do the right thing and so forth but I’m only willing to put up with so much. At some point there has to be opposition to this shit.
Change illegals to those in this country who empower them an I'm good with that. I do not blame the illegals one bit. If I was/had been in their shoes, I (& believe most here) would have done the same thing to try for a better life for their kids/kin.
Around here the Mexicans pay their bills on time, work hard an don't start any shit unless it's pushed upon them. The American .gov TIT suckers are a waste of skin, no matter their color,... Those who empower them are the ones who need a change of mind, one way or the other,...
Unfortunately, the courts seem to be pretty biased toward the left, and against conservatives. While assaults and property destruction by Antifa types are largely allowed to continue by police, and courts, when people from the right respond, they are usually prosecuted. Having more conservative justices appointed to the Supreme Court really helps, but getting lower courts, police, and local governments to comply with those findings or orders is problematic.
The 9th circuit court is an excellent example of a biased court. Unfortunately, the choices left to most of us is to either comply with the laws, or participate in what amounts to anarchistic behavior like the antifa behavior we decry.
I'm not sure there is an easy solution to this dilemma. I often think the antifa's are actively trying to bait people into reactions that they can then splash all over the news networks that are pretty clearly "in their pocket".
I agree with the sentiments saying that there is little to be gained by negotiation with socialists, or communists. They ask for compromise, but the compromise always seems to be toward their wants, and they give up nothing, while slowly and consistently nibbling away at more "traditional" values. The next time the left asks for compromise, it would be interesting to begin the negotiation with asking them what they might be willing to give up. I think I already know the answer to that question though....nothing.
The 9th circuit court is an excellent example of a biased court. Unfortunately, the choices left to most of us is to either comply with the laws, or participate in what amounts to anarchistic behavior like the antifa behavior we decry.
I'm not sure there is an easy solution to this dilemma. I often think the antifa's are actively trying to bait people into reactions that they can then splash all over the news networks that are pretty clearly "in their pocket".
I agree with the sentiments saying that there is little to be gained by negotiation with socialists, or communists. They ask for compromise, but the compromise always seems to be toward their wants, and they give up nothing, while slowly and consistently nibbling away at more "traditional" values. The next time the left asks for compromise, it would be interesting to begin the negotiation with asking them what they might be willing to give up. I think I already know the answer to that question though....nothing.
The problem with compromise in this century is that all the parties expect to get 90% of what they want....Left, Right, Black, White, up or down. Everyone wants to get 90% of what they want when they "compromise". True compromise is giving up half of what you want and letting the other side get 50% of what they want.
Not gonna happen in this century.
It won't/can't get solved anymore. Too many issues and too many objectives. The US needs to split up with the Conservatives going to their corner and the Progressives going to their corner and the Republicans going to their corner and the Democrats going to their corner. We need to divvy it all up and separate *but* that would require compromise so read the first paragraph again and get yer ass ready for violence. The US is divided against itself and will not survive this...pick a side and get on it.
We are in a Civil War but it is cold at this point. The problem in this century is that the "other folks" live right next door - not North or South of the Mason Dixon line. Ready to shoot yer neighbor?
Not yet I'm not.
VooDoo
Not gonna happen in this century.
It won't/can't get solved anymore. Too many issues and too many objectives. The US needs to split up with the Conservatives going to their corner and the Progressives going to their corner and the Republicans going to their corner and the Democrats going to their corner. We need to divvy it all up and separate *but* that would require compromise so read the first paragraph again and get yer ass ready for violence. The US is divided against itself and will not survive this...pick a side and get on it.
We are in a Civil War but it is cold at this point. The problem in this century is that the "other folks" live right next door - not North or South of the Mason Dixon line. Ready to shoot yer neighbor?
Not yet I'm not.
VooDoo
I am not holding a grudge against antifa people, I like their energy. I do hold a grudge against their paymasters.
All of my neighbors have the same ideals and are arguably just as armed as anyone on this board. So, I don’t have to worry about any of them being Antifa.
General Mattis said, "Be nice to everyone you meet, but have a plan..."
If you fail to meet the Mattis Plan standard, you are a sheep going to slaughter.
If your neighbor is better prepared in "their" plan, and views you as sheep, u got a problem.
If you meet the Mattis Plan standard, you are the sheep dog.
If your neighbor goes after the sheep, neighbor can cease to be the problem. But, you have to start with a plan, and be willing.
Texas Ranger Captain Bill McDonald said,
Every neighbor who chooses to stand against you..... Mattis Plan or sheep, always a choice.
And, we are in the right !
Pretty much the only way to stop the disease...
I cannot fathom how our country fell so far when we have so many willing to bleed for it.
Fucking amazing the lack of simple reasoning the socialist millennials have to empower their enemies that would just as soon beat them to death in the streets as stand beside them.
My Dad had a convicted felon try to kill him on a traffic stop. As he was pulling this sig from his holster his two thoughts were "how much paperwork is this going to be?" And "how likely is it I'll be prosecuted for shooting a 4 time violent felony offender in self defense?".
Thankfully the guy decided to let go when the .357 was stuffed in his ribs and it was all on camera with audio.
But how fucked up is our Justice system when a violent felon gets a few years in a psych ward and promises to be good and take his meds then gets in altercations within days of release multiple times?
He was released again after that, finally got put away permanently for attempted murder the next time.
When will that happen?
Blacks can muster a million man march in the 60's when they were probably only 10% of the population!
We today can't get a thousand Constitutionalist to March for any cause!
We had better step are shit up and soon!
We have a perfect battle cry; MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN !
STORM EVERY ONE OF THESE SOCIALIST CITIES!
STARTING WITH PORTLAND WHERE I LIVE!
FUCHING CRICKETS!
ArmyJerry makes an excellent point: prosecution of the paymasters for those who essentially finance the rioting by Antifa would really help the American public see what is going on.
Currently, I believe that many Americans think the Antifa people come up with these ideas on their own, and that they cover the costs associated with their activities. I do not believe that to be the case. Someone is driving the Antifa activities, and helping finance them.
While I have no issue with people having PEACEFUL protests, when those protests morph into riots, destruction of personal property, smashing windows, and attacking people who disagree with their philosophy, I believe that they have lost the protection of the bill of rights guarantee to peaceably assemble.
[1] The First Amendment states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
A riot where people destroy property, vandalize things, and attack other people is NOT peaceably assembling. Ergo, the police have every right to arrest, and/or disperse those who are not peaceably assembled. As I have written before, the problem is that the government does not seem to have the will to act to end these activities.
Just as is done with drug cases, if the police begin arresting people at lower levels and begin turning low level participants into turning over the next higher person up the chain of planning and financing, they will eventually get something solid they can use in court. Then the rest of the public can find out who and what is truly being all the antifa antics.
Currently, I believe that many Americans think the Antifa people come up with these ideas on their own, and that they cover the costs associated with their activities. I do not believe that to be the case. Someone is driving the Antifa activities, and helping finance them.
While I have no issue with people having PEACEFUL protests, when those protests morph into riots, destruction of personal property, smashing windows, and attacking people who disagree with their philosophy, I believe that they have lost the protection of the bill of rights guarantee to peaceably assemble.
[1] The First Amendment states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
A riot where people destroy property, vandalize things, and attack other people is NOT peaceably assembling. Ergo, the police have every right to arrest, and/or disperse those who are not peaceably assembled. As I have written before, the problem is that the government does not seem to have the will to act to end these activities.
Just as is done with drug cases, if the police begin arresting people at lower levels and begin turning low level participants into turning over the next higher person up the chain of planning and financing, they will eventually get something solid they can use in court. Then the rest of the public can find out who and what is truly being all the antifa antics.
We don't need the fucking government to tell us who are antifa's puppet masters. A couple of good computer nerds from our side can do it and data dump it. From there it's up to individual Patriots or groups of Patriots to mete out justice as they see fit.
You're a fool. Defense of constitutional government using the power reserved to us by the 2nd amendment is not anarchy.
Only an idiot looks to government to solve this problem when certainly it's people within government that are formenting the unrest in the first place.
Wake the fuck up.
I am intrigued by your comment "defense of constitutional government using the power reserved to us by the 2nd amendment is not anarchy". Please expand on that as I'm not sure if you are suggesting the government is currently using the power reserved to us (use of firearms) , or that citizens shooting people they disagree with (the power reserved to us) is not anarchy. What I am asking for is some clarification on what that means.
I agree with your comment that looking to the government to solve problems they created is idiotic.
And I'm generally OK with the name calling ("You're a fool"), I have been called that and worse by people both dumber and smarter than you...and in all cases, it is no substitution for a cohesive discussion where logic and reason are used.
I can always hope. I like giving people the benefit of the doubt. Either way I come out ahead. If I get burned, I learn, if I don't get burned, I still learn.
2aBaCa,
Are you trying to tell me that I am trying to reason where it is impossible? So far, I'm still willing to people grant benefit of the doubt. The old adage "even a broken clock is right twice a day", is just as easily applied to me as anyone else.
2aBaCa,
Are you trying to tell me that I am trying to reason where it is impossible? So far, I'm still willing to people grant benefit of the doubt. The old adage "even a broken clock is right twice a day", is just as easily applied to me as anyone else.
I’m still waiting on my answer as to when it is appropriate to push back? As has already been mentioned, the aggression seems to be towards anyone that is a conservative by and large. Now correct me if I am wrong, but have we not seen conservatives shot at, beat up, pummeled with locks and socks and so on? At what point is enough enough? You have called for everyone to be reserved but I tell you that people are getting tired of being reserved and when the lion is backed into a corner it’s going to be ugly. I will also ask again, at what point do you decide to defend? You can remain in the shadows and reserved until there is nothing left to preserve.
My give a damn and no parts are on order... the economy is doing well, my 401k is making money, people can get a job if they want to work. On the other hand a bunch in clown cars want to stop it like its a bad thing? I'm too old to run and too fat to fly so I'll vote for the guy who actually seems to care about America and not some idiots who will drop to their knees to get a head and try and take away our firearms.
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