For such a smart guy you have an uncanny desire to use a flawed metric.
PRS Talk PRS Casual Rules...
- Thread starter joelinux
- Start date
For such a smart guy you have an uncanny desire to use a flawed metric.
Well, what would you do? I have a group of people in the office that will be otherwise content to just plink forever.
When I suggested anything along the lines of limited shots or time limits, the answer was a resounding "no".
So, now I need to be subtle. So, a plinking contest. Hopefully it lights a competitive fire in some so they move on to more formal competition.
Start w/ a generous time limit. I’d use obstacles such as tires, barricades, stairs or whatever else is available. There is no rule saying you can’t still shoot prone either.
In order to progress you have to set up to the plate. Nobody learned calculus or trigonometry by not pushing past basic arithmetic.
I get that it’s cool to hit targets at long range; we all like to do it. Range w/ time limits & especially consistency is meaningless luck. Think of the feeling of accomplishment when you crush something you thought impossible.
*Engineers are supposed to come up w/ solutions to impossible situations; show me your value by accomplishing this task.
In order to progress you have to set up to the plate. Nobody learned calculus or trigonometry by not pushing past basic arithmetic.
I get that it’s cool to hit targets at long range; we all like to do it. Range w/ time limits & especially consistency is meaningless luck. Think of the feeling of accomplishment when you crush something you thought impossible.
*Engineers are supposed to come up w/ solutions to impossible situations; show me your value by accomplishing this task.
Aaaaand you have just disinterested half the office.
Direct quotes: "I don't want to have to wait for anyone else to shoot", "I don't want to be limited in how many times I can shoot and not have it officially count." "I don't want a time limit."
And almost everyone who is saying stuff like that has some variant of "Just let me know when you aren't doing stuff like that. I just want to go and have fun."
So, the value would be in getting them involved in ANY form of competition. Even if it doesn't meet with your standards.
Right solution for the right problem.
The format your friends gave gravitated towards sounds like zero fun. There’s no incentive towards improvement. Lobbing mortars is probably more up their alley. I don’t say this facetiously either.
I’m all for talking shooting w/ guys, but if I had to chat w/ your coworkers I’d check out after about a minute. I think y’all are looking for a game called “Long Range Luck.” Long Range shooting w/ out consistency is just luck.
Go to Spencer’s & buy everyone a cup & celebrate afterwards. I suggest the grape Kool-Aid.
I’m all for talking shooting w/ guys, but if I had to chat w/ your coworkers I’d check out after about a minute. I think y’all are looking for a game called “Long Range Luck.” Long Range shooting w/ out consistency is just luck.
Go to Spencer’s & buy everyone a cup & celebrate afterwards. I suggest the grape Kool-Aid.
Attachments
There it is. Here is your meme:
So, basically, you'd be the killjoy out there going, "you're doing it wrong. That isn't the proper way to do it. GUYS, STOP HAVING FUN!"
Yeah, that's going to go over real well, and I'm sure I'll win a lot of converts to PRS in my office.
Your solution of just ditching them in no way solves my problem.
Listen, you seem like just an awesome people person, and must be the life of the funeral parlor, but how about you let someone answer that actually knows how to retain friends that don't already think exactly like you?
I’m LOMFL over this! Just go shoot w/ your buddies & tell everyone how badass & OAF y’all are because you got impacts at 1,400 yards. Forget the fact that it took you fifteen rounds to ear “Impact!” the first time.
This shit is beyond stupid at this point. Just go prone on your mat, try not to get your loafers dirty & shoot. I’m still LOL’ing over this.
People like you are proof God has a sense of humor.
FWIW, my friends & I actually break out the shot timer, shoot over obstacles & set ground rules for different types of stages such as no dialing for different ranges, etc. Live a little.
You still haven’t came up w/ a solution to your own problem. I challenged you to show me your value as an engineer; you’re not impressing me.
This shit is beyond stupid at this point. Just go prone on your mat, try not to get your loafers dirty & shoot. I’m still LOL’ing over this.
People like you are proof God has a sense of humor.
FWIW, my friends & I actually break out the shot timer, shoot over obstacles & set ground rules for different types of stages such as no dialing for different ranges, etc. Live a little.
You still haven’t came up w/ a solution to your own problem. I challenged you to show me your value as an engineer; you’re not impressing me.
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I just meant that at some point you are going to progress as shooters and you'll be doing good at 1,000 to 1,200 yards but your previous dope won't work or you'll be very spotty out further or some days good and other days bad. Your "data" in this case is your dope and your ballistic calculator and at some point you will wonder how you managed early success and suffer frustrating disappointment after you feel you have developed some skills and knowledge. At this point you will discover the vast amount of knowledge and experience here on the Hide. Just ask me how I know...
Hate is a pretty strong word for someone you have never met. You don’t know what type of sales I do and have only digested a few of my sentences in a thread. I like many on this thread was trying to give you good advice and like many instantly regretted it. Hahaha
Wild guess here but I imagine you are difficult to work with in noninternet life as well. I have been laughing to tears imagining working with you. Hilarious.
In my line of work we work with the general public...I warn my team when they are selling to engineers. Keep it simple and keep telling them they are really smart and you will close the sale.
When this makes the legendary threads post I nominate the title to be:
“Engineers doing engineering things”
You have your solution. Take them out and shoot...natural competition will form. Just like I mentioned a few posts back.
What you are attempting to do is the aggressive parent making their kids play something they never did well. Eventually the kid will hate the sport and the parent.
Taking newer shooters out and coming up with some super complex scoring system with absolutely no base in reality is about the quickest way to turn them off the sport.
Lighten up Francis.
This is funny, as a degreed engineer, who has developed and led large scale teams and projects. The past 20 years leading sales engineers who support other engineers world wide. His comments on this topic are as ignorant as his threads on shooting long distance.
I'll make an attempt to contribute something useful. @joelinux I have the same friends/coworkers/family situation. Almost everyone I associate with owns guns and enjoys shooting to some degree. Quite a few of them have said that competition looks cool, and a small number actually wanted to try it.
Over the last few years I've invested considerable amounts of time, energy, ammo, gear and even a little money into jump starting peoples entry into shooting sports. I've even hosted several super laid back competitions at my house, both 3 gun and precision rifle, with very generous target sizes, round counts, distances and time limits.
And what I've learned is that all you can do is show someone some match footage. They're either hooked right there or it's never gonna happen. No amount of your help or even trying to ambush them with a casual scoring system/match like you are trying is going to work. All you can do is show that horse the water, they either self motivate to drink or they don't.
Most people say they want to improve, but very few actually mean it. The second you have some sort of scoring system to show them how bad they are they're done. Some are just destined to a lifetime of having fun throwing lead with no purpose, and thats fine, just let them be.
Over the last few years I've invested considerable amounts of time, energy, ammo, gear and even a little money into jump starting peoples entry into shooting sports. I've even hosted several super laid back competitions at my house, both 3 gun and precision rifle, with very generous target sizes, round counts, distances and time limits.
And what I've learned is that all you can do is show someone some match footage. They're either hooked right there or it's never gonna happen. No amount of your help or even trying to ambush them with a casual scoring system/match like you are trying is going to work. All you can do is show that horse the water, they either self motivate to drink or they don't.
Most people say they want to improve, but very few actually mean it. The second you have some sort of scoring system to show them how bad they are they're done. Some are just destined to a lifetime of having fun throwing lead with no purpose, and thats fine, just let them be.
Did I say I was bragging? You all are king of strawmen here.
I'm happy that you and your friends shoot in the way that makes you happy. You are not helping me engage the people I'm trying to engage to entice them to get better. You are being the smug asshole telling them that if they don't shoot the way you shoot, well, it's just not real shooting.
If you were a guitar player, you'd be this dickwad:
Oh, I know that. My one friend and I are learning proper form/shooting/etc. When just the two of us go shooting, we are constantly challenging each other to get better, using what we read online.
This is just so the others that go with us can have a friendly competition that might entice them into proper form/shooting etc.
If left to their own devices, they would be happy to just treat them like fireworks: pretty bang, but easily forgotten. I'm trying to be very subtle in how I am encouraging them to get better.
Any salesman who takes clients out for something other than a reasonably priced meal is suspect in our office. If that is your definition of "difficult", then you'd find our whole office "difficult."
We are high-end researchers, and we get salespeople sucking up to us constantly because of our need for test equipment/RF cabling/shielding/etc. at the very limits of what is possible both in terms of technology and budget.
To the point that it is ridiculous. Our LT has told companies that they are free to drop off slick sheets and respond to questions, but cannot contact our engineers individually or they will risk losing our business.
We had one engineer that was given season tickets for the LA kings on the ice. Another was offered tickets to the world series.
Actually, in my mid-year review, I consistently get high marks for "easy to work with."
When people tell me something can't be done, I generally ignore them. We do the impossible in our office on a daily basis.
Oh, natural competition does form up. But it's not useful because there is no structure. I'll paraphrase a sample of what happened the last time we went out:
"Well, I'm the best shot because I hit at 1200 yards."
"What? No. f*ck you. That was pure luck. it took you 13 shots to hit it."
"distance is distance. I win."
"B*llsh*t. I hit it consistently at 800. That means I'm a better shot than you."
"Guys, you both suck. I hit 900 my first time."
"Yeah, but you couldn't hit it past that."
etc. etc. etc.
Then they forget about shooting until the next time we bring it up.
As I stated before, none of the people going want to be limited in shots, wait for someone else, or be timed. They have stated they would just rather not go if that was the case. The WHOLE POINT of this thread was to see if there was already some rules that would allow them to "plink" but be measured. This entire thing could have been avoided if someone said, "no, so far, there is no set rules for a casual competition of that kind." At that point, we could run off and make our own, and you could go have your little pissing contests in some other thread.
Yeah, I don't think you and I are in the same industry. At all. But, I'll let you keep your same sense of smug superiority.
I hear what you are saying, and you could very well be right.
They got excited to invent a scoring system, which I took as a good sign?
We are going to try next time we go to the range (not for awhile. Some big proposal awards and year-end TIMs are coming up).
It could be that it shows how bad they are, they get discouraged, and quit. But at least it will separate the causals from those who are destined to be serious.
Who’s being smug now? A bunch of guys have offered you useful suggestions, all of which you’ve rebuffed. You like to imply your intellectual superiority over us, but you still haven’t engineered a useful solution. We’re waiting...
I hope you can manage to not get your lab coat dirty or scuff your pocket protector in the process of accomplishing this task, LOL.
As I read your statement in regards to being easy to work with, well let’s just say I gave a big ol’ eye roll to that one. Still LMMFAO over this shitshow of a thread.
I hope you can manage to not get your lab coat dirty or scuff your pocket protector in the process of accomplishing this task, LOL.
As I read your statement in regards to being easy to work with, well let’s just say I gave a big ol’ eye roll to that one. Still LMMFAO over this shitshow of a thread.
It sounds like you are much better equipped than we are to create a new method to quantify who is a better plinker. As it stands now, most of us judge how well we shoot by comparing the time it takes to get on target, % of rounds on target, and the distance of the targets hit. Those are the 3 things that combine to tell the story of how well you stack up against someone else.
I guess you could come up with some other parameters but to me that’s like meeting someone at a driving range to see who is a better golfer. I used to casually teach golf and know a lot of guys who were self proclaimed driving range pros. They would tell you how many balls they went to hit and how far they were going. You can mop the floor with guys like that on the golf course. Banging ball after ball with no intent or direction will give you a false sense of accomplishment and skill.
My advice is free and worth what I charge for it, but I’d say just go plinking. Once the fun of wasting ammo begins to wane, all it takes is saying “hey Darrel, I bet you can’t go 2/2 at 600, 800, 1000, and 1200.” Once Darrel tries and fails someone else will be itching to get in and try it. There is a reason we quantify the skill of a shooter the way we do. Because that’s the best way to do it. I understand as an engineer, that is hard to accept.(I used to be a service tech so I had to get at least one engineer jab in)
I guess you could come up with some other parameters but to me that’s like meeting someone at a driving range to see who is a better golfer. I used to casually teach golf and know a lot of guys who were self proclaimed driving range pros. They would tell you how many balls they went to hit and how far they were going. You can mop the floor with guys like that on the golf course. Banging ball after ball with no intent or direction will give you a false sense of accomplishment and skill.
My advice is free and worth what I charge for it, but I’d say just go plinking. Once the fun of wasting ammo begins to wane, all it takes is saying “hey Darrel, I bet you can’t go 2/2 at 600, 800, 1000, and 1200.” Once Darrel tries and fails someone else will be itching to get in and try it. There is a reason we quantify the skill of a shooter the way we do. Because that’s the best way to do it. I understand as an engineer, that is hard to accept.(I used to be a service tech so I had to get at least one engineer jab in)
Don't deflect. Let's just deal with what YOU have said.
I've told you that they have not responded well to shot timers, limited shots, formal competition, etc.. and your response is "well, why aren't you using the useful suggestions of shot timers, limited shots, formal competition, etc. that we've suggested?"
Can you see how that is not at all useful?
And you mock engineers from the 1950s stereotype. Yeah, you are proving all kinds of useful.
You have never met me in person. If you did, you'd find I'm very polite, up until the point someone tells me something can't be done. Then it's MY turn to eyeroll.
The General Manager has a phrase in the lobby of the building that kind of applies here: "Those who say it can't be done should not interrupt those who are busy doing it."
I'm in total agreement with you. Those utilizing these numbers shouldn't think themselves on par with someone that engages in formal PRS competitions. As I've said repeatedly, this is just so the plinkers can quantify the level of relative suck/good they are vs. one another.
I hear what you are saying, but these guys have been arguing over who is the better shot already, and they were going 'round in circles. The reason I asked was to see if there were already "casual" rules in place. Like a simultaneously played drinking game.
My hope is that by us coming up with these rules, they might see how much they are good/suck, and they might be inspired to learn to shoot better for bragging rights in the office, then we might go to more formal PRS-style rules, etc. etc. etc.
Because you've been so nice, I'll take the engineer jab and not send one back in return.
@joelinux, I don’t have any suggestions as to a format for your plinking match, but if you could get yourself and your buddies off your bellies/benches it would make everything more challenging and also improve your shooting skills dramatically. Get a tripod, make a barricade, shoot from a supported standing or kneeling position, whatever, just create some different positions to shoot from. If you can get them excited to do something a little different, maybe they will figure out how to make it competitive.
Basically this is what I read here:
“I have an idea. I want people to agree with me, but I’m going to ask like I’m open to ideas when I’m really not.”
“I have an idea. I want people to agree with me, but I’m going to ask like I’m open to ideas when I’m really not.”
You ignore people when they tell you something can be done as well.
The impossible? Let me guess...hammering square blocks into circular holes?
I seriously think you should just go out shooting as a group. Have fun and you will eventually be able to figure out the competition part. Heck you guys may invent an entirely new shooting sport!
“I’m using my silver coated multiplier round at the 700yd 2 MOA points”...rolls dice. “Awesome I get a 4x multiplier on the next shot versus the goblin king plate” shoots and misses “oh bummer I have to go back to the wizard castle and shoot the 100yd dragon plate before I can move on and shoot the goblin prince four times to pass the castle”.....or something like that?
“The General Manager has a phrase in the lobby of the building that kind of applies here: "Those who say it can't be done should not interrupt those who are busy doing it."
You came here looking for an answer to your dilemma. You’ve been given lots of solid options, yet you’ve always got a reason to bitch about the solutions offered to you. Just make up your own rules & go shoot.
*You still haven’t engineered a solution to your own problem. If you had, you’d stop responding to this thread.
You prove me right w/ each post until you’ve found a solution.
You came here looking for an answer to your dilemma. You’ve been given lots of solid options, yet you’ve always got a reason to bitch about the solutions offered to you. Just make up your own rules & go shoot.
*You still haven’t engineered a solution to your own problem. If you had, you’d stop responding to this thread.
You prove me right w/ each post until you’ve found a solution.
I'll float the idea past them.
My concern is it will add another variable: "I shot 800 twice! Well, I shot it from the barricade, so that's a better shot"
Here's a more accurate representation:
"Guys, I need advice on how to go about doing A"
"Don't do A. Do B like we all do"
"Can't do B. B doesn't fit with what I'm trying to accomplish."
"WHY ARE YOU NOT TAKING OUR ADVICE TO GO DO B? We all do B. B is how it is supposed to be done. You are being obstinate/stupid/foolish for not doing B."
"Because, as I said, B won't work"
"You'll ever be a good B person if you try to do A"
"Not trying to make A people good B people by doing this. They might become good B people eventually, but they won't get there."
"A is impossible"
Lemme guess: You've been skimming the posts. I've answered this like 3 times now.
My goodness, aren't you illiterate....did you actually read my first post, or are you just jumping on the bandwagon?
Let's read part of the first post to all this. Slooowwwwly. Sound out the big words:
Please tell me what that looks like to you?
And your stupid claim about "you need to prove yourself as an engineer by solving this problem." No I don't.
Especially since your lack of attention is so bad it is obvious you didn't read post 68, d*psh*t.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/prs-casual-rules.6962786/page-2#post-7985642
You’re not solving this problem very well “Mr. Engineer.” I’m still waiting for your solution oh mister problem solver of problems. You’re the smartest guy in the room, remember? You claim to solve problems for a living, yet here we are discussing your problems w/ still no answer.
I read your posts & I find it amusing. You asked for suggestions to solve your problems. You’ve received lots of good advice as to how to improve your shooting experience. You’ve argued each & every suggestion for one reason or another. It doesn’t matter at this point to me what you do. It actually never did matter for what it’s worth, but I offered opinions that others seemed to agree w/ as well.
Let’s recap: So, you the problem solver, have no answer to your own conundrum. You’re asking us to engineer a fix for your issues. You’ received good advice, in good faith I might add, & yet remain obstinate.
Shoot whichever format you like. It matters not at all.
I read your posts & I find it amusing. You asked for suggestions to solve your problems. You’ve received lots of good advice as to how to improve your shooting experience. You’ve argued each & every suggestion for one reason or another. It doesn’t matter at this point to me what you do. It actually never did matter for what it’s worth, but I offered opinions that others seemed to agree w/ as well.
Let’s recap: So, you the problem solver, have no answer to your own conundrum. You’re asking us to engineer a fix for your issues. You’ received good advice, in good faith I might add, & yet remain obstinate.
Shoot whichever format you like. It matters not at all.
Your coworkers have told you they want to go out and shoot for fun, without it being a competition.
Here's an accurate representation of your current situation.
"No, I don't want to compete. I just want to shoot for fun."
"Don't do that. Make it a competition like I want you to do."
The coworkers told you what they want - a shooting outing where they just have fun. Once you get there you can make bets about who can hit what target first and wager a beer or two for each, then having a grand time afterwards. But your coworkers have already told you they just want to shoot for fun without pressure.
You're ignoring lesson number one of engineering: you can build the best device in the world and you'll still never sell it if nobody wants it. Your scoring system could be perfect, but your coworkers will never go use it with you because they told you they wanted to go shooting for fun.
The people who want to improve and be competitive will do so naturally, making bets and challenging themselves once they see what fun it is. The people who don't never will, no matter how great of a scoring system you come up with. Going out and better a couple beers on specific shots will ensure everyone has fun at the bar afterwards. Giving them a complicated equation to remember and utilize after pounding their third pint at the bar will only ensure they don't want to shoot with you again, since they told you they just wanted to shoot for fun.
Beer bets are fun, scoring systems aren't. Your coworkers want to have fun- plain and simple.
Ok. So I figured it out...took a while but it all makes sense. Drum roll please.....
Joelinux isn’t human. It’s just a Russian troll bot that has very good AI that got past the hide firewalls.
Hear me out:
Every positive suggestion has a negative response and the bot immediately attacks the helpful poster. Multiple times this Joelinux has reminded us that it is an engineer. We already know this...why does it have to remind us? Because it’s a bot. It’s relentlessly posting negative stuff and spending tons of time replying to a thread. Almost like it doesn’t sleep or do normal human things. Well it doesn’t because it’s a bot!
The biggest reason I think it’s a bot...it assumes that all humans want to play games like a robot. Bots only work in the binary world. Black and white. No grey area. No emotions. No winging it to have fun.
What’s your favorite color?
“Blue”
No it’s not! Your favorite color is something else.
“Ok...red”
No! I already told you that you don’t like colors.
“Ok my favorite color is triangle”
Could triangle be considered a color? Hmmmm...Now we are getting somewhere...I’m an engineer.
“Bye”
Hahahaha
Look back over some of the other threads this Joelinux bot has been involved. All dumpster fires.
Thanks Russians! You sure can put together great troll bots. It has been some great laughs through this thread but I just can’t shake my head anymore.
You forgot: "And when they disagree with me I'm going to insult them until they give up and stop trying to help."
If I didn't know better I'd swear the OP was my uncle, also an engineer who can evaporate the fun and life out of anything given an audience. This thread was a 9.7
I've given you a mathematical formula. If you can't follow along because you don't see how numbers could represent letters, I really can't help you. That's just a failure of the education you didn't receive.
Again, Post 68 if you can figure out how to use numbers.
You haven't been following along much.
I'll recap:
They actually are having fun developing a scoring system, as well as the shooting models to test said scoring system.
In case anyone is technically inclined, it's a Monte Carlo system where shooters are represented by a Gaussian model with various standard deviations. The better the shooter, the smaller the standard deviation misses. We realize that technically it models accuracy more than precision, but, for what we are doing, it should suffice.
The issue is that they:
- Don't want to wait for someone else to shoot
- Be limited in ammunition
- Only have some shots count, and others not.
- Have a limited time to take shots.
I'll have you know, I passed my Turing Tests with flying colors.
I’m still LOL’ing over this stupid ass thread. You’re beyond help. Establish your range rules (I read post 68), blaze away & do whatever it is you’re going to do. I couldn’t possibly care less at this point. You’ve pissed on a lot of solid advice & you’ve yet to solve your own problem. Engineers are supposed to solve problems; *hint, hint - you’re failing. If you weren’t failing this thread would be a nonissue.
Good luck smart guy. You’ll need it.
Good luck smart guy. You’ll need it.
Your post is only one step above "nuh uh, nuh uh, I'm not listening, I'm not listening!"
You've offered nothing helpful, having only served to repeat the points you want to talk about without doing anything that could actually solve the problem I've asked for.
Wait a minute.... You aren't related to Andrea Ocasio Cortez, are you? Because that would make suddenly make sense.
So now you resort to name calling? Outstanding. I guess if that’s all you’ve got to offer, that’s all you’ve got to offer.
Keep searching for an answer. An engineer in search of an answer to a simple problem to which he cannot fathom. I think you should move on to simpler topics such as the meaning of life. I’m out girlfriend. Try not twist an ankle in your stilettos.
Keep searching for an answer. An engineer in search of an answer to a simple problem to which he cannot fathom. I think you should move on to simpler topics such as the meaning of life. I’m out girlfriend. Try not twist an ankle in your stilettos.
Nice try Russia. Almost had us. But you fell into the trap. Turing tests are designed for machines and executed on machines.
And you didn’t pass. You were in the middle of the test. I’m your interrogator that was appointed by Frank. He had his suspicions after your first few threads.
Your goal is to act like a human. You have not accomplished that yet. Better luck next time.
Your fake outrage would mean a lot more if you hadn't already engaged in it.
But what about if I'm a self-aware Russian Troll bot? If I was a true artificial intelligence, would it matter where I was located? Or if I was a bot, Russian or otherwise?
And who among us hasn't been a Russian Troll bot in one form or another? Why, I know Hillary Clinton has said that anyone that voted for Trump was acting in the best interest of Russia. So, aren't we all Russian bots on here?
I heard you got banned. It made me happy. Please make me happy again.
No. The only thing I care about is the fact it wasn't permanent. I consider it a flaw that should be corrected.
Good luck with that, you have jumped the shark!
BTW my temp ban was for cross posting something I had for sale in the px in threads if there same topic. Didn't know, took my medicine. It's called feedback, ingested, learned, and adapted. Try it on for size!
You seem to think this is just me, when I've said multiple times that the people in the office are helping develop it. But, hey, keep attacking that strawman if it helps you sleep at night.
You've said you were out several times in one form or another. How can I miss you if you won't leave?
I've "jumped the shark"? Like you were providing useful information before, and suddenly you aren't anymore?
Don't care why you got banned. Just care that it wasn't permanent.
You've been noise in the way of signal in almost all my threads, whether I've been asking about rifles, scopes, rear bags, scope leveling, etc. You've done nothing but stir sh*t up with claims that I'm trolling wherever I go.
The fact that I have procured the right equipment and configured it correctly in the first place was despite you. Please feel free to ignore any of my future threads unless you have something constructive to say.
You've proved to be non-useful for any of the information that I've asked for, and have given no indication that you will change anytime soon.
Thats the point that a dozen people have pointed out to you, falling on deaf ears, all but one of your threads have been noise, same MO, smartest guy in the room, refusing to take advice from experienced folks, and insulting them along the way. I look forward to your next dumptster fire, you may now have two entries in the "epic thread" list.
you are the infamous, Paparockcal_bot!
This is probably what the casual prs non-competitive match looks like
Utter b*llsh*t.
I asked about going straight into .375CT or .416B. I was dissuaded. Final result? Got an RPR 6.5CM.
I asked about scope that will be good for 6.5CM, but also good when I eventually do switch to .375CT/416CM. Was recommended to get a Nightforce ATACR F1.
I asked about whether MOA or MIL was more popular currently. It came out that MIL was.
Asked about reticle. Was recommended to get a MIL-XT. Got MIL-XT.
Asked about rear bag. Was informed about Armaggedon Gear's "Game Changer", which is what I ended up going with.
Asked about Mat. Was given good information that informed me on my eventual choice.
Asked about Bipod. After listening to all the points for and against, went with Atlas.
Asked about case. Got recommendations, then made a choice based on the information in the thread.
Asked about boresnake vs. Rod. Got information and made a choice.
Each and every f*ck*ng step of the way, you have been there to harass, harrangue, ridicule, and mock my attempt to learn, insisting that I am a troll. It was cute at first, but now you are just being a pain.
I can only hope and believe in the Greater Internet F*ckwad Theory, and that you aren't this antagonistic towards people in real life. Otherwise, the idea that Pro-2A people are this mindless in real life makes me realize we are lost as a country.
Pardon me while I wade into the dumpster fire, but I do have a few engineering buddies I shoot with whenever we get the chance. Living on opposite sides of California, that’s not as frequent as we’d wish.
Here’s what we’ve done a few times:
If shots alternate, you may or may not be able to correct your aim for the target you went for last time.
Here’s what we’ve done a few times:
- Set up some cans of soda, clay pigeons, etc. at varying distances - the target should be small relative to shooter skill
- Each person gets some number of shots if firing simultaneously, or shots rotate until all targets are gone
- Who makes the most targets explode?
- Whoever loses buys lunch
If shots alternate, you may or may not be able to correct your aim for the target you went for last time.
Thanks for that, but the limited shots and waiting for the last person are two things they did not want to do. To the point that they were not going to be involved, or even go.
I appreciate the suggestions, but it won't work.
And @seansmd : Really???
Pardon the snark, but that sounds like a plus ?
Perhaps the following, then, assuming the existence of steel gongs and people being trustworthy enough to keep track of their own hits and misses:
- Each target is worth a base score of [yardage/10]^1.25 / [area in sq. MOA]
- For each shooter on each target, their score is [target’s base score]*[hit percentage on that target]*sqrt([hits])
- The score for each shooter is the sum of their scores for each target
What I like about this sort of scoring system (and the exact numbers can be substantially futzed without greatly impacting the below):
- No matter how long you shoot at a target, if you’re improving, your score will creep up
- You can recover from having initial misses while you figure out wind
- You can’t recover from lobbing shots all over the place
- You’re encouraged to shoot different targets, due to diminishing returns
- You’re encouraged to shoot the furthest/smallest targets you can reliably hit
- Good shooters don’t need to waste a ton of ammo to do well - an F Class competitor who gets 18/20 shots on a 1000yd/0.196sqmoa gong (5” X ring equivalent) will probably clean up the competition with a target score of 6160.
Yeah, yeah, I know...
I like the way you think. If you had commented earlier, I think this thread would have been a lot more constructive.
I floated my own ideas, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts: How would you reward someone who can hit the target earlier? If all other things were equal, and someone can hit the target in <3 shots, but someone else requires 9 to walk it in, should there be a mechanism to reward it?
And if someone manages to get lucky on the 2nd shot, but doesn't take any more so they don't lower their percentages, how would they be penalized worse than someone that had a bad day that took 3 to get on target, but then can ring the gong forever?
Someone who hits the target earlier has to overcome fewer misses to get their hit percentage up, and all of their shots on that target end up counting for slightly more as a result. So, if someone hits a 1000yd/1sqmoa gong on their third shot and then rings home another 7 times, they get
100^1.25/1*0.8*sqrt(8)=716 target points. The person who takes 9 shots to walk it in has to hit the next 14 consecutive shots to beat that score - which is achievable, but not trivial.Meanwhile, the “shoot twice and get lucky” shooter only gets a target score of 158 (hit percentage multiplier 0.5, sqrt(hits)=1), which the person who had a bad day beats on their second hit, shot number 4, because of the sqrt(hits) multiplier (1.4) and the same hit percentage multiplier (0.5).
So in summary, this system:
- Loosely rewards hitting early (slightly better hit percentage multiplier)
- Strongly rewards hitting consistently (higher hit percentage multiplier)
- Rewards hitting more times (higher hits multiplier)
- Rewards hitting different targets (diminishing returns on hits multiplier)
- Strongly rewards hitting further targets (range exponential multiplier)
- Rewards hitting smaller targets (area divisor)
for sure, every post is a dumpster fire waiting to happpen, its like watching the Jackass stuff, you are entertaining!
